Say "No" to fur......

Nothing with at reference to PETA is worth reading.

Enjoy your chosen lifestyle!!! It's great that you are passionate enough about something to speak out, but if you want anyone to respect what you have to say leave that hypocritical bunch of lying terrorists out of it.

I take it you dont live in Canada?  Ever wondcer why PETA is not big up there?  Because for warmth and insulation, nothing beats real fur.

The link somehow got goobered up.  It should be (copy and paste into browser): 

www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=j_lopez&feat=j_lopez&pos=fp1 

 

ParaTed, you are welcome to your opinion.  Just because it is linked through PETA does not mean that it is useless.  I am not a PETA member, and I did not get the link from their site.  A picture is worth a thousand words, maybe you should watch the video.  At least PETA tries to make a difference.   Would you feel better if you read about it at a different site?  Here's another link for you:  http://www.jlodown.com/

Dr. Guy, I lived in Northern Michigan, and have never had to rely on fur to keep warm.  I could take that argument if you lived in the wild without modern conveniences, but not in modern society.  This fur is not being used for warmth, it's being used for fashion and conspicuous consumption. 

Both of you sound like the "typical" reaction that I expected.  It's easier to ignore it than try to fix it.

What about the Inuit/Eskimo people? Are you saying that they use fur for fashion? Northern Michigan isn't exactly the North Pole. If you want to get on your high horse maybe you should fire off a few to people like P. Diddy or some of those other hip hop gangsta tripping mofo's. Maybe if you posted say no to fashionable fur...............

If animals are slaughtered and their fur is taken for no reason other than to be made into clothes, yes, that's wrong. If they're being skinned alive, that's barbaric. But don't forget where you're getting your information. PETA is one of the worst of the extremist group. They're not above using disinformation and outright propaganda to get people to stop eating meat or using fur. They lie a lot of the time. Bear that in mind.
Other than that, good luck on your lifestyle change; just please don't preach it to those who don't want to hear it.

Karma: I didn't watch the video because I'm sensitive to things like that, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.

I tend to be a vegetarian (with a few exceptions) for a couple of reasons...I don't generally enjoy the taste of meat, and it's hard for me to eat it because I am constantly struck by the thought that I am eating a dead animal carcass (and yes, meat-eaters, I realize that that's what we're "supposed" to do, and I can get past it from time to time). It's a personal choice, though, and I don't inflict it on anyone else.

As far as fur goes, I think I would feel the same way were I to try to wear it...

Interesting article.

(Although I have to admit here also that I have a total girl crush on JLO)

Both of you sound like the "typical" reaction that I expected. It's easier to ignore it than try to fix it.

My Reaction? All I did was to state what I know from my frozen cousins in the north. I offered no value judgment on it the subject, nor on your views. I respect you, not the link.

  

What about the Inuit/Eskimo people? Are you saying that they use fur for fashion?

No, I am not saying that.  Read it again.  Watch the video.  These are not people who are living in a cold climate doing this.  The Eskimos and Inuits also use fur from animals that they killed for food.

If you want to get on your high horse

I can't even respond to that....I'm laughing too hard.

just please don't preach it to those who don't want to hear it.

Nobody has to read this article nor respond to it. 

So far I have gotten a lot of baseless, angry responses.  Yes, PETA is not the best source.  They are also not the only source.  If people want to believe that this stuff doesn't happen, then fine.  I'm glad that you can sleep at night because this stuff doesn't bother you.  It bothers me, and that's why I write about it.  I don't have to see PETA videos to know that this stuff happens.  I put the video on here as an extreme example.  A very graphic example.

If you don't like PETA, how about some other sources (copy and paste- the "links" keep getting broken so some may not show up)?:
www.thenazareneway.com/vegetarian/inside_the_fur_industry.htm
http://www.furfreefriday.com/photo.htm
http://www.choosecrueltyfree.org.au/fur.html
http://www.londonpunks.co.uk/fur.htm
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2005/03/22/story194734.html

My Reaction? All I did was to state what I know from my frozen cousins in the north. I offered no value judgment on it the subject, nor on your views. I respect you, not the link.

I appreciate that.  I have a word for your frozen cousins: Thinsulate

Just because it is linked through PETA does not mean that it is useless.

Yes, it does.

At least PETA tries to make a difference.

Yeah, advocating bombings of McDonalds and releasing diseased animals from labs. Yup, one heck of a difference!!

A picture is worth a thousand words,

Oh, so you also approve of anti Abortionists who either show pictures of, or hold up aborted fetuses to make their point?

As I said, enjoy the lifestyle you have chosen, express yourself freely about it. However, if you want to align yourself with terrorists, don't expect me to respect that.

ParaTed, why don't you read the other links?  The point is not about PETA, it's about the fur industry.  I could care less what you think about PETA, it doesn't change the cruelty that happens.  If you would rather say that you ignore it all because of PETA, than fine.  Turn a blind eye.  I'm not aligning myself with anyone, I'm not a member of PETA and I don't advocate them.  Read the other links, add something constructive, or please quit commenting because you are adding nothing but hate- and the world already has enough.

while on my way to the computer to respond {i read this earlier} I looked at my cats and thought of someone skinning them.... enraged I kicked a peta member {lol j/k} and thought karma goil is right, so I am saying no to all fur {except that one spot mons vernis} heh.

I appreciate that. I have a word for your frozen cousins: Thinsulate

I tried to get them to move south, but they like Hockey too much!

I can't even respond to that....I'm laughing too hard.

I'm glad, I meant no disrespect to your views. Do you wear leather shoes?

Both of you sound like the "typical" reaction that I expected. It's easier to ignore it than try to fix it.

Why should we "fix it" anyway? It's not like it's ~~wrong~~ to eat meat. If you think it is, that's a personal decision. It's not a moral one, as groups like PETA and the Animal Liberation nuts would have us believe.
It's a perspective, and one that I don't personally subscribe to.

Sorry----got off-topic there; I don't agree with using fur, either. Leather is another thing, though....I see it more or less as a by-product of the beef industry. The pelts are made into jackets. They fill my belly and cover my back. Nothing wrong with that, since the whole animal is being used, right?

Personally, I believe in resource management. I'm not opposed to the production of fur, provided the meat of the animal is also used (which is why I don't oppose leather,among other things). While meat is one of the most cost inefficient ways of obtaining protein (chicken and fish excepted), most people in this country at least are poorly educated as to ways to combine proteins to get complete proteins from vegetable sources.

Being vegetarian is a good thing, don't get me wrong. But if everyone else suddenly adopted the same standard, the environmental impact would be tremendous. Most of our domesticated animals have foraging and self sufficiency traits bred out of them to simplify the factory farmed, domesticated life many of these animals endure, and they would not fare well if we suddenly freed them to live on their own because we stopped using them for meat. Not to mention, we've decimated the populations of apex predators, so more would die of starvation than currently die from the butcher's knife.

But enough digressing. I agree animals should be slaughtered in as humane a fashion as possible, but I am equally suspect of anything that bears the PETA name. Remember, these are the same folks that tried to get the Green Bay Packers to change their name to the "Green Bay SIX Packers", to delete the reference to the packing industry and because apparently drinking and driving is, to them, a more intelligent hobby than butchering animals.

 

Do you wear leather shoes?

What does that have to do with fur?  Do you think a cow was slaughtered only for its hide?

It's not like it's ~~wrong~~ to eat meat.

I didn't say it was.

You are both missing the point of the article.  It's about FUR.
It's not about eating meat or cow hide (which is a by-product of slaughtered cows used for meat).

If people want to eat meat, that is their decision.  I think that the current conditions are a bit nasty, but people have been eating mass slaughtered meat for a long time.  People also have been using leather for a long time.  Cows are not killed just for leather.  When a cow is slaughtered, almost everything is used in one form or another. (Down to their bones being used in the sugar industry)

What I have a problem with is farm raising animals to only use their fur.  Do you go to the market and buy Fox meat, or Chinchilla meat?  No, that's because the rest of the animal is discarded.

There is a HUGE difference between the beef/cow leather industry and the Fur industry.  You can not compare the two.  I don't agree with everything that the beef industry does, but I also can not compare them to the Fur industry.

Sorry----got off-topic there; I don't agree with using fur, either. Leather is another thing, though....I see it more or less as a by-product of the beef industry. The pelts are made into jackets. They fill my belly and cover my back. Nothing wrong with that, since the whole animal is being used, right?

I totally agree.

Most Native Americans believe that it is OK to slaughter an animal only if you give it respect and use as much of the animal as you can.  I think we could learn from that.

Read the other links, add something constructive, or please quit commenting because you are adding nothing but hate- and the world already has enough.

Sorry, I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier.

What does that have to do with fur? Do you think a cow was slaughtered only for its hide?

Yeah, what does skinning one animal have to do with skinning another... ;~D

How can there be a logical discussion, if you're going to sit there and defend the use of leather, while espousing telling us all we need to "Say "No" to fur". Animal skin is ok, as long as it's been tanned and cured?

No, Karma, I have never even disliked you, much less "hated" you. I'm just trying to understand how you can cite PETA, but not align yourself with them; Claim the virtues of being a vegatarian, but then defend leather.

Killing animals for our own comfort is either wrong, or it isn't. If it is wrong then ALL killing for our comfort is wrong, if not, then what is your point?

Remember, these are the same folks that tried to get the Green Bay Packers to change their name to the "Green Bay SIX Packers", to delete the reference to the packing industry and because apparently drinking and driving is, to them, a more intelligent hobby than butchering animals.

I heard it was the Green Bay "Pickers"...in reference to the farming industry in Wisconsin.
They were offended by the "Packers" because of the meat-packing industry it "honored". What a buncha thin-skinned loons.

Sorry, I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier.

So, first you claim it is "PETA" now you claim any site is "stupid".  Why are you even reading this article or commenting?  you obviously have already decided that there is no "problem", so why even respond?  If you won't read about it, and won't look at the pictures (even if they are from sites you have never heard of) then what's the point?  You're simply ignoring it.  If you don't have a problem with it, then fine.  Keep ignoring it.  There are plenty of people who say the Holocaust didn't happen, too, and that the pictures aren't real.  Ignorance is bliss.

Claim the virtues of being a vegatarian, but then defend leather.

I think you need to re-read why I am a vegetarian.  " I eat a vegetarian diet for health reasons.  However, with doing so, it's hard not to start seeing the ethical side of the meat and fur industry."

Killing animals for our own comfort is either wrong, or it isn't. If it is wrong then ALL killing for our comfort is wrong, if not, then what is your point?

That's an easy justification, isn't it?  But, there is a huge difference.  People eat the meat of cows, and the cow isn't typically tortured before it is killed.  The cow is used for FOOD, and it's skin is a byproduct.  Animals raised for fur are raised for fur.  The fur isn't a byproduct, and their bodies are wasted.  Killing a cow for food is not "comfort".  Killing a Chinchilla for the small pelt it has is. 

Can you give a valid reason for the fur industry to exist?

no fur? ok... then dont eat ice cream, use band aides, adhesive, buttons, many kinds of shoes, gelatin capsules, premarin or prem pro, loads of furniture, no vaccines either, no dice, no shampoos or conditoners, no soaps, no lotions, no anti age cream, and TONS more items , http://www.ivu.org/faq/animal_derived.html
for a more complete list... and for the horses, go to, pmurescue.org, and, hey where are all the vegans and anti fur ppl when recently our mustangs were ok'ed for slaughter and sale to mexico? or how about monkeys killed livers disscected made into a slushy and given to everyone over the age of 2 in this country and MORE for the polio vaccine...

So, first you claim it is "PETA" now you claim any site is "stupid".

No, I said, Sorry, "I consider any such pictures as stupid as the "anti abortionist" analogy I cited earlier." If you agree with the anti abortionist tactics of showing pictures of, or carrying around actual aborted fetuses, then I can see why pictures like those at your linked website aren't stupid.

Why are you even reading this article or commenting?

I read the article because your headline caught my interest. I replied because, last I checked, part of what we do here at JU is read each other's articles and either reply or not. You may use your right to delete anything I post in your blog if you'd like.

Animals raised for fur are raised for fur.

So it is fur you detest, not the fact that animals die for it? Animals die for a lot of reasons, including for our food.

Can you give a valid reason for the fur industry to exist?

Yes, to provide a legally available product to those who choose to buy it... Just like the cattle industry.

If you are against the fur industry, great! Speak out against it, write articles and post links to your heart's content. Remember though, the same rights that allow you to do so, allow those of us who don't agree, to disagree.
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My mind is like a steel trap: Rusty, and Illegal in 37 states! ;~D

in addendum... mohair does not have to be harvested cruely, I own a few and would NEVER harm them because I WANT them to grow more hair/wool.. my sheep too, are sheared with VERY safe clipper blade4s, and NEVEr get cut up.. I want them tooto grow me more wool... it dosent make sence to be careless with clipping the wool... it opens the animal up to infection and fly strike... deadly both of them, as well as harmful to the fleece. I also raise Angora rabbits, and with the sheep, rabbits and goats, it would be ttly INHUMANE not to clip them before the onset of summer. provide tons of shade and cool water... not to mention fans and for the bunnies, frozen water bottles... I feed my animals, and consuider each one VALUABLE... injuring them, leaving them in misery in the hottest time of the year, wastes my money my time and the energy of a valuable life. not a good Idea. dont like how the aussies treat Merino sheep?? then buy from US small farm flock owners. it tells us , the small flock owner that our humane treatment is valuable. that having 10, we can touch every day, where every single one is ttly important, is important enough to you you will support those efforts. I am a hand spinner, my wool is so soft, and Im so proud of my girls who give it to me... when we do have lambs, I offer the ram lambs cheaper to ppl who will keep them as pets ... and I make anyone buying them for ... less ... humane reasons .. financially too painful to afford.
and, that is only in application to the lambs. I keep whatever bunnies i breed.. from birth till I hope late in life death... or sold to a great show or pet home.
u want humanely treated bnatural products? support US wool farms... hand spinners almost always have small flocks, sell wool, clothes that are hand made hand spun etc... I think it is WAY better ythan fur, I can wear my blk angora does show coat from last year , and hold her on my lap brushing her today... best for everyone,, and nothing softer than angora.
abcwoolcrafts.mralter.com/

no fur? ok... then dont eat ice cream, use band aides, adhesive, buttons, many kinds of shoes, gelatin capsules, premarin or prem pro, loads of furniture, no vaccines either, no dice, no shampoos or conditoners, no soaps, no lotions, no anti age cream, and TONS more items

Not all shampoos, conditioners or other personal care items contain animal products or were tested on animals.  That is a bit extreme. 

Obviously there is still confusion as to the point of this, as ParaTed doesn't seem to understand, either.

If an animal is killed (preferably humanely) and it is almost 100% used, I have a hard time justifying why it is "wrong".  (Yes, there are unethical ways that animals are killed, but that is different).  For instance, when a pig is slaughtered, almost 100% of it is used- all the way from it's blood being harvested for some ethnic foods to it's thyroid being used for medicine to it's bones being used for different uses.

A Chinchilla is raised then killed only for its fur.  The body is just thrown away.

There is a *huge* difference.  If you are killing something for food, then using the rest of it for other purposes, the death of the animal is purposeful (ie: is used to sustain human life, then we use the rest for other things).  If you kill an animal to gets it's fur to make a pretty coat, that is just useless.

I don't find ethically slaughtering animals for human survival "cruel".  Raising animals and slaughtering them for vanity is.

A quote that I find true:

"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant (who is a German Philosopher, if you don't recognize the name)