Frogboy Frogboy

Tsunami widget...FOR KONFABULATOR!

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Tsunami widget...FOR KONFABULATOR!

We're losers! Loooosseerrrs!

http://download.progsoc.uts.edu.au/
from WinCustomize Forums

Let's get this question out of the way now:

Is Konfabulator better than DesktopX for the creation and usage of widgets?

I don't think it is. I *like* Konfabulator but it's not nearly as easy to create widgets for and the final widgets are .widget files and not EXEs like they are in DesktopX.  Its default widgets ARE more polished than the typical DesktopX widget for sure. 

But we're getting our butts kicked by Konfabulator. At least in terms of market share now.  I'm not sure where we're going wrong. But we're going wrong somewhere.  It's not in features that's for sure. If anything, we have too many features. And DesktopX costs less, doesn't time out and doesn't have a nag screen.

And it's in a positive cycle now.  Robert X. Cringely wrote a terrific article about emergency systems using Konfabulator as part of his solution.  Some students read it, write the app and contact their local newspaper. Newpaper runs it and pretty soon it's picked up everywhere: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20631

Somewhere, something has gone wrong.  I've been reading the riot act to our PR agency for months. I think perhaps it's time get a new PR firm since they haven't managed to get any stories going.

 

26,974 views 68 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Time to hire that undead zombie that walks by here
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Not to belabor the point or seem like a pain in the butt, but a prime example of the screenshot thing is with the latest release of WindowBlinds. Why did the screen shot show Sustenance and not the per-pixel alpha blending on the start menu of Ian's great Pearlthane blind? Not a smart marketing move. It took AthleticTrainer1980 over at Neowin posting a shot of the menu to get people excited about it. They should have been salivating over the new feature in the official screenie.
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top

What is bugging me and what in my opinion let's people choose for something
different. Help files were are they? i checked the konfabulator website
and saw the workshop-page. 151 pages helpfiles in PDF.

Most people want to be productive from the start, you need proper and good
helpfiles for that. you do not want to spend your time searchin websites for answers.

I would say contract a very good helpfile writer and the popularity of all the programs
here would (i think) problaby double.

Just go to DX's home page, press the documentation link on the left and yep, it's in PDF format and HTML.  Hundreds of pages incuding examples.  How hard exactly did you look? Heck, in DesktopX itself there's a link in the context menu item that will take you to the documenation.

I've made widgets for Konfabulator and widgets for DesktopX. There's no comparison. DesktopX is much easier to make widgets for. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that.

As for widgets not working, I'm not sure what to say.  I had base DesktopX 2.4 and ran through a bunch of widgets during the media tour this week. No problems here.  That isn't to say some of the alpha releases since then have been problem free.

Perhaps we need to stop releasing alphas of DesktopX onto ODNT.  I.e. from here on out, they will be more internally tested before being made public.

If someone has a widget - a specific one - that doesn't work, let us know.

Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top

BlueDev: Marketing is like engineering. Perfect is the enemy of good.  PearlThane wasn't available for screenshots when the media materials were put together.

It is easy to point out ommissions in any marketing program but the comparison isn't between Stardock and some perfect company but rather Stardock and real world companies and in the real world, things aren't optimal.

Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As for Widgets not working, it would be easier to have a sticky thread with submissions, so people would not resubmit the same problems on the forum over and over.

As for DX beta or not, with the 2.4 (stable), some widgets did not work (for example Tiggz said, he stopped working on widgets then since its widgets no longer works), so the "go to the last stable" is not always the solution)

The latest alpha builds made them to work by the way (so please Tiggz, go on ).

But there are still some widgets not working (like I said above, the just released "currency converter", for example).
Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I can say my opinion based on technical aspects. I would say some fault of "Konfabulator has more polished widgets" is also because of some problems like:

- Some of our widgets like Weather or Calendar were not so perfect. We updated some content for 2.4 and we'll make sure we have great boundled widgets in 2.5.
- We are rewriting several documentation. Especially the Scripting manual, if you check the latest 2.40f[a].002 build, it has been updated a lot and there is several new information.
- Most of all, I know we did an huge improvement in the engine in the internal builds. 2.5 (and the new alphas and betas when they are ironed) will be a much more stable and featured development platform.
- There were some problems in January builds, however those were labeled Alpha I think. Pleas check yesterday's 2.40f[a].002, I think it should fix most problems.
- Check the new tutorials for some ideas and best practices: https://www.stardock.com/products/desktopx/docs/tutorials/index.html
We will add more soon.
- I tested several widgets with the new build. Currency converter and other ones seem to play well.
- Konfabulator partially benefit of being newer. It has less of backward compatibility maintenance overhead. Plus, things like ActiveX support adds incredible complexity. However, as things get ironed in 2.5 too, it should get back a strong point of DX.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just go to DX's home page, press the documentation link on the left and yep, it's in PDF format and HTML. Hundreds of pages incuding examples. How hard exactly did you look? Heck, in DesktopX itself there's a link in the context menu item that will take you to the documenation


That proofs my point i guess, i'm not working with DX yet but i tought it probably was the same as the others.
But trying to find what you now told me i think proofs my point.all other programs from stardock i'm working
with now have a plain and simple Help button DX hasn't, i think i understand what you are talking about.
if i click the DX icon on the bottom i can find the helpfiles and documentation. when i first start with a
program i would like to see the help and documentation straight away, i'm new to it i need help.

I did not expect documentation, so i did not look for it, i would probably not have done that even if
there was a helpbutton. think about it, doesn't that say something! Every program i got from stardock
has it's own different way of help and documentation that makes it very hard to work with.

Example: Iconpackager: Help > Help on the internet > gives me the product page from there i can go to newsgroups.

Icon developer: Help > help on the internet > online tutorials > gives me a page why i should use windowblinds.

The thing with the helpfiles is not my problem it's yours, for me it is the reason why some of the programs
aren't in use yet, i struggle trough each program one step at a time. Helpfiles and documentation i think
should be on my PC not scattered over the internet and if it has to be on the internet than on one easy to find
place.

I do not see DX or WB etc i see Stardock. So if the help is poor in some programs it probably is for the others.
Would i buy that $499,- program? no i won't, my mind is already set from past experience.

Cheers Eddie
Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
PearlThane wasn't available for screenshots when the media materials were put together.


And I understand that completely. It was simply a convenient example that had popped up recently.

But what I don't understand is preparing the media materials before you have an example for one of the biggest selling points on the new version. But this is straying from the original point: DX screenshots. Until you can announce new versions with very nice, very tight and unified looking screenshots no one is going to take you seriously. There are lots of cool widgets, and lots silly looking ones. How many folks at the popular customization sites really are going to think it is cool to have a lava lamp or fish on their screen? No matter how good those look (because they do look good) things like that are not going to attract many new users at popular custo sites. They look at that and think it just looks silly.
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
ALberto : I just updated to the last beta and tried the Currency converter from Pixelpirate.

If I try it as a widget, It freeze while updating.

I I import it in a theme, it says "script error in curr_web" (the one from Martin kills Desktop X when imported !!)

Objet requis: 'DesktopX.Object(...)'
Line: 173
Code:
(not available)


Already, the difference between imporing and standalone is perplexing.
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If I try it as a widget, It freeze while updating.


Is there anything that could be blocking its access to the net? I know, an obvious question, but I've accidently blocked my widgets from net access a few times

The script error doesn't affect the object's functionality, dismiss it and it should work fine.
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I have the SP2 firewall on (tried it off but still same error). The weathers widgets do work. If I continue, others script errors occurs about "arg or incorrect procedure call". If I dismiss it, it claims it needs it of course.

Argument ou appel de procédure incorrect: 'Left'
Line: 140
Code:
(not available)
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top

BlueDev: Again - perfect is the enemy of good.  Having the media materials ready for this week while I"m on a media tour in San Fran was key. They had to be sent last week to be here for my trip. 

And while us geeks get all excited about semi transparent start menus, the media I meet with doesn't care about that.  Color shifting, tool bar icons, progress animations, and other things that they arne't familiar with are the key.

There is a whole world outside these little websites and their news items.  WindowBlinds isn't the most popular desktop enhancement in the world because we get news items on websites.  It's because ew've been successful in getting mainstream coverage and at that level, you're covering much more basic bullet items.

The pearl skin wasn't ready in time for the media materials to go out. It's as simple as that. It's not like we were going to cancel the media tour because we didn't have screenshots of a particular skin ready in time.

--

Eddie - look I'm the first to criticize our stuff but if you right clck on the DesktopX icon in your system tray there is a "Documentation" item. There's no way around this. The documentation and its availability is well within the "good enough" range. It is not affecting the success or failure of DesktopX.

I might add, Konfabulator doesn't have a help button either.  In fact, as a user who has downloaded it, how can you possibly compare ours (where one of the program's menu items takes you to the dev documentation) to Konfab's where you have to visit their web page.

--

I'm not really looking for suggestions on marketing.  I understand that many of you think that our little community of websits is the world and hence think of all things being done to satisfy that.  But that's not the issue.  We don't care of l33tdue84 thinks a Lava lamp is cool or not. 

I happen to think that the DX screenshots on its website are quite good. Now if you'd like to start your own competing product and put your own marketing skills against mine with your own vision of what constitutes a great screenshot go right ahead. After all, I started Stardock as a college student. So I feel I've earned the right to say that I have an inkling of how to market.

Where we've fallen down on is not effectively getting DesktopX out to the mainstream media. 

Robert X. Cringely didn't write about DesktopX because he hadn't heard of it.  Not because it had ugly screenshots or the documentation wasn't easy enough to find or whatever. 

If you want someone to write about your product or service, step one is to make sure they have it.  That's where we've failed.

 

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Having the media materials ready for this week while I"m on a media tour in San Fran was key. They had to be sent last week to be here for my trip.


I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for pointing it out. Makes more sense now. I will drop that subject as my understanding was lacking.
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It wasn,t meant as a harsh criticism, i aint english so writing and rewritng all the above takes me
quite some time, i know it looks more agressive then what i ment it to be, but at some point i give
up deleting and rewritng and press submit.

maybe if i try to explain it different, i'm a webdesigner and i work with macromedia. all of there
programs are designed the same way exept for freehand, it's completly different. therefore i do not
use it, lately i'm more into the graphic department then the design department and i am in need for
a good vector program, so now i'm seriously thinking to change to Adobe, just to be able to work
with the same program design/layout. it's easier to be productive that way. that is how i decide
on spending my money and i think i'm not alone in this. it's not about costs, upgrading from
studioMX to studio2004 MX is a lot cheeper than swithcing to Adobe for me it's about workflow.
So if you can enchange the workflow (wherever) you deliver better programs and i'm more tended to buy them.

Cheers Eddie
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Eddie: Ah I see what you're saying. 

I agree that the documentation can always be made more readily accessible.

But in Product Management, it's not about having everything perfect. Rather, it's about picking which areas you are going to fail at from lack of resources.

There are some markets that Stardock can no longer compete in because we're "too big".  Pixoria is a total of 3 people (the people who make Konfabulator).  So for us, if a product can't bring in 6 figures in revenue, we can't really push it.  In fact, what we usaully do is if something can't make 6 figures in revenue, we just make it freeware and expense it as "marketing".

Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I like DesktopX too. The big problem with it, at least on my PentiumM 1.4GHz IBM thinkpad is that it uses about 97% of CPU which is a little bit high for what it offers. Konfabulator on the other hand uses about 2-3% of CPU on the same system (which you hardly notice). I guess I'm not unique in having this problem and it certainly means that I can't really use DesktopX as a working desktop - I just run it to show (Linux) friends how cool Windows skins can look.

If you can get the CPU demand a bit lower then I am sure more people will adopt it.

Thanks

Ed
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
DesktopX uses less CPU than Konfabulator, I mean Yahoo Widgets, on all my computers. 
Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
it uses about 97% of CPU


Are you sure that is the DX engine using that much CPU or do you have a widget that is misbehaving? Try unloading all of your widgets then see what the actual engine uses. Then add your widgets back one at a time until you see what is causing the spike in CPU usage.