Europe: Israel biggest threat to world peace?

Sorry, but if you are using that poll as your only source for what the Europeans think of Israel, you may be allowing yourself to be grossly mislead. This poll only surveyed 500 people. That is far to few to get an accurate assessment. Also, with a sample size that small it would be way too easy to manipulate the results.

if your niehbor built a fence(security wall) twenty feet into your yard you would be pretty pissed off too. but wait, thier muslims which means thier not really real people so maybe your right

Brad, I live in Germany, I see anti-semitism, and I have no idea why it's there. It's a mystery to me just as it is for Americans, I expect. The poll could be representative or not, fact is, anti-semitism is alive and well in Europe. I do not personally know anybody who really belongs to that group that seem to dislike Jews (*), so I cannot really tell why that group chose to believe whatever it is they want to believe.

Ken, since you seem to have no explanation for why somebody would build a wall to seperate themselves from neighbours that kill women and children whenever they get a chance to do so, maybe you can help us here. You seem to know the answer. And since you also seem to be prone to making the issue a Israel/muslim issue rather than a Israel/terrorists issue, you can probably even tell us what exactly it is that makes people believe they have to generalize about religions rather than observe behaviour.

(*) There is one guy, but I am positive that in his case it's plain ignorance. There are people like that in the US too.

Honestly, I think that it's anti-Semitism as well. When I see people criticizing the actions of Israel while they condone the same actions by its neighbors, what else can it be?
I'd be upset if my neighbor built something on my property, but if I wanted the system to help me, I'd work with it and not against it. Of course, if I felt that losing some land was complete justification for terrorism, then I should probably leave the USA and move to a country that was founded only on the purest of thoughts. Then again, now that I think about it, every country in the world has been infiltrated by other countries, whether completely or just culturally. Clearly the only solution is to start from square one, which means move everybody back to Africa and begin again.

Dear friend. I am sorry but i am from Europe.

I think you should first think about our history and compare it to yours in the US. We have been Europe for the last 2.000 years, so i guess we have a little different evaluation about the world, the politics, the possible threats. We are used to it, you my american friends, are too young in the world.

Too young and too dangerous: what is this use of the word "winner" when talking about a country? This is not a game, there are no winners and losers because all the world is made of people, when somebody dies in a violent conflict, humanity loses, nobody wins.

Israel is occupying from the 1950's a land that was from somebody else. The palestinian's land. Sorry about that. Israel has tanks, airplanes, bulldozers, money and technology (thanks to the US mostly).

Palestinians have stones and dinamite. They have no army, they cannot fight for their land so they become desperate and, sometimes, fanatic.

If they had an army they could fight...but how can you dare to call "terrorists" to people that is not allowed to have a country or an army to defend their land against the invaders? Israel has violated more UN resolutions than ANY OTHER country in the world. And this is FACT, look in the annual reports of the UN.

But Israel, who should be the most peaceful country of the world, because the country was a GIFT from the rest of the world to compensate for the sufferings of the war (why didn't they give a country to the gypsies? they were also mass-murdered by Hitler...), is expanding its territory more and more every day.

Have a look at the evolution of territory of Israel from 1950 to now. They have occupied the best parts of the land, forcing the Palestinians to live in the desert, without water, without their wells and farms. Whithout their cities, without their homes. Israel demolishes house after house every day claiming that it's a way to "protect" their interests.

What is this kind of expansion? Why do they construct more and more houses for jewish people in the land of some other people? Why do they destroy farms, houses, schools... of the Palestinian people, to surround them with a wall, in the poorest regions of the country, condemning the Palestinians to death and despair? Why do they do that?

My friend. I am sorry that in the US you cannot see what we see. I suppose your TV's don't show certain images, don't show the massacres that the israeli army is doing. Look at the body count and see the balance of violence. But of course it's more violent to kill 7 in a suicide blast that to kill 20 with machine guns, missiles and tanks, isn't it? this is what the TV says.

What Israel is doing is like if the next time some guy from the Bronx decides to steal money in the cornershop we go bomb the whole downtown to "retaliate" and prevent further attacks. Yeah, right.

When they do that, they are making the world angry. Only USA supports Israel. The rest of the world looks at what is happening there with sadness. The arab world is threatening our countries because of the atrocities that Israel is commiting with your support.

And most of all: Israel has an organized army. A machine of destruction geared with american tecnology. Iraq, my friend, did not have ANY weapon of mass destruction (where are them?) but Israel does.

With a fundamentalist such as Ariel Sharon in power, and with that army and that policy of expansion, they are getting too close to the line of starting a war with the arab countries.

And they have the missiles, the chemical weapons, the secret service that Iraq did not have. And they have the support of the strongest country in the world, your country my friend.

Other countries who are also threats to world peace (like yours?) seem isolated and hopeless compared to the Israeli maiming machine. So maybe this is why we europeans, sitting here not so far from Israel, i must say... and having lived many wars in our own land, unlike you, and having seen the rise an fall of many empires like yours, think that Israel is a great threat to world peace.

Indeed, it is.

And I hope you can understand why. I never meant that the Palestinians are saints. Nobody is. But you just cannot keep on living on this world of "winners" and "losers" because life is not black and white, but with many shades and colours.

If you listen to what Bin Laden said after the atrocious acts of violence of Sept. 11, he said: "we will not tolerate the occupation of the palestinian land". Of course everybody was too angry to listen, so you attacked Afghanistan, but he was not there.

Now you attacked Iraq, and you find that the people does not want to be "liberated" that much. Instead of finding a solution for the palestinian conflict, you just kept on making the rest of the arab world angry against you. Very wise. We are neighbours with the arabs for as long as history is written, and we know you are not going anywhere this way, but you are too powerful, and we have to shut up and bow if we want to survive. We just look what Bush is doing and we laugh, or cry, because it's ridiculous and scary, both.

Democracy is great, we are all fighting for it, just it's not ethical to impose it on people that have their own traditions and their own ways of getting where we are. How can we be so hypocritical to say that we are bringing them democracy when all that we are doing is destroying their countries and getting the petrol? How can americans still have their faces up after the abominable lies and atrocities they have done in Iraq?? And you say paranoia? Come on, man, say with a serious face that your president is not mentally unstable and handicapped. HE IS and you know it.

The war is not over. It looks like the giant is just kicking around without any sense, because he has not stopped to cure his wounds and reflect about why and what has happened. If you keep on seeing the world as a place with "good guys" and "bad guys", winners, losers... you are only asking for your own decay. Remember that the world is not yours, even when you could buy it. Remember that your friends are some of the world's most ruthless dictators, or mass-murderers like Ariel Sharon, condemned by the United Nations.

So maybe, just maybe, this has NOTHING to do with racism, nothing to do with anti-semitism, nothing to do with all that you think... it's just about justice, about freedom, about human rights, about weapons of mass destruction... but it's not about the US interests, it's not about Israel's expansion, it's not about the extermination of the palestinian people, who have the right to live free, and not surrounded by a wall of concrete, barbed wire and machine guns. And remember, they are not allowed to have an army... so dont be surprised if somebody decides to blow himself up in front of the jewish soldiers. First, he is killing himself. I am against all kinds of fundamentalism, North American, Islamic and Jewish. I am for democracy, and freedom, not for your blatant lies and your support for the most criminal states in the world.

Sorry if we have a slightly different point of view. This is democracy too.

Same old question, why is critism of Israel, anti semitic. If so is critism of the US anti us, is critism of any nation, race or religion anti. No, People have opinions. To criticise Israel for some of its policies is not anti Israel just anti those policies big difference. There is no denying that people hate Israel, some because they are anti semite some because they live in a country and I use the term loosly which is controlled by another nation who feel they are justified in treating them as second rate citizens, I of course refer to Palastien. Having said that I do not for one minute think that their Leader helps their cause any more than Israel, and it is my belief that peace will never come to the region while this man still welds power. Sadly I do believe that day will e a long time coming.
Interestingly Israel is the only country in the Middle East which has Nuclear Capability, and other weapons of mass destruction now that Iraq has been neturalised. But I suppose that's OK as well, and I suppose that to do anything other than to blindly support this would also be anti semitic.
I continually hear the line that Europeans should remember the terrible autrocitis experienced by the Jewish Nation, which I am sure they do considering they who are old enough lived through it and would be rather cruel not to acknowledge this event, however I feel we sometimes forget that almost all Europeans experienced the terrible practices of the Nazis, so to remind these people is no less offensive than to deny the treatment of the Jewish Nation. However I saddened to see taht this same nation treat their neighbours with similar in difference. What a strange and twisted world we live in. Selective support is not correct support, all people have a right to exist, including Arabs be they Muslim or Christian or Jewish.

Sorry I forgot to answer your other two questions, yes Israel is a threat a long as it has weapons of mass destruction. Does new poll expose paranoia, no just people who would like to see an end to countries using these weapons.

I know this has nothing to do with the above subject, however I am interested in the History of Stardock Inc, Win customise and Joe User.com.
Are they all one business, are they all created by Brad Wardell. I would say that for such a young person I am very impressed. Does contribute this site himself. Oh will you guys be developing a similat suite as object desktop for Linux, if so how far away. Most of my business systems run on Linux. I suppose if you do then you would have to design for both KDE and Gnome. Some answers to all or some of these questions would be most appreciated.

hmmmmmmm....

Go to Stardock.com and get info and email addresses
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I actually CAN see why Europe looks at Israel at times or most of the time being wrong.

BUT, Europe needs to stand up to the fact that terrorism is not the way and will be at their doorstep (if not already) if not stopped. Terrorists are not blowing up in France because tactically they won't do it until they are ready. To them France, Italy and the rest are Western and is trying to do what ever to 'them'.

In the end, they will hold hostage all nations and as well as society. What world would we live in if anyone who disagrees with a system takes action like this? It need to be taught that this is wrong and self destructive.


Israel bears the burden of being the 'free' country and being morally more inept than Palestine. It is expected that they will sacrifice and commit to peace than war. Palestine is like a lost cause with no real government or anyone of real authority to speak of. So it is more of a child without a parent to raise it.


In so ways it can be expected for Israel to make drastic changes to its policy toward Palestine. I do wish at times that Israel would stop pretending it is just expanding into empty space further aggravating the situation as well as dropping 500 lbs in a house is not good. PLUS you NEED the help of the people to stop supporting the terrorist. Israel can't even begin to try to do that.

Palestine, sadly, does not have anything to bargain with and is ruled by thugs. In fact those who rule and terrorize keep their people oppressed ON PURPOSE to keep the fighting going so they can stay in power.

Palestine will more likely than not become a camp to stop the violence and stop the killing culture that swells within it; people born and raised to hate for no reason other than to continue hating.

I see the situation for what it is, and it is sad indeed. Israel needs to take a far different approach to its defense not just for its present but for its future; people will die and sacrifice but in the end they will gain World support and support from within. Palestine is somewhat a lost cause as far as dealing with authority so it would have to be rebuilt, controlled and changed.

"Israel is occupying from the 1950's a land that was from somebody else. The palestinian's land."

Pablo, please do yourself a favour and LOOK UP these things before you rely on them. You do not represent Europe well when you make it clear that opinions about Israel in Europe are based on ignorance. There was no "palestinian land". The land in question was a part of the Osman Empire first, then a British protectorate. The protectorate of Palestine (which consisted of Israel and Jordan) was then devided into a Jewish and an Arab part. Israel today is, including the occupied territories, the same size as the original land given to Israel then (plus Golan heights). And the occupied territories have been such since Transjordan occupied them (and renamed itself "Jordan"). Jordan then lost these territories to Israel when they, again, attacked Israel for no reason other than hatred.

Please do yourself and us a favour and LOOK THESE THINGS UP before you make claims that seem to be merely repeating terrorist claims rather than facts. (For extra points, look for any source that refers to the Arabs in the region as "Palestinians" before the 1950s.)

Oh, and while we are at it. Our problem with the Palestinians is not the weapons they use but their targets. There are more decent methods to destroy a government or country than attacking women and children. If the Palestinian terrorists have ever attacked a non-civilian target, I certainly have never heard about it.

Pablo, any examples of such? And as for democracy; democracy merely gives you the right to voice your opinion, it doesn't mean your opinion is worth anything. The value of an opinion is based on its validity not your right to voice it.

I can quite legally claim that the United States are still a British colony. But that doesn't mean it's true.

Some of these comments just at credence to the anti-semitism. Or at best, paranoia.

I like the comment how we Americans are "young" as if people who happen to have been born on soil that has been occupied by white people longer than another patch of soil that is also occupied by white people have some inside track.

None of the comments explain how Israel is a threat to world peace. For instance, I don't see how building a wall constitues a threat to WORLD peace. I can see how it would irritate the Palestinians. I wasn't aware that Europe sees itself as some Pan-Palestinian state.

The polling size is a red herring to. It is merely the latest evidence of such "issues" with Israel. I would doubt that you could find 500 people anywhere in the United States that would find 59% saying Israel is the largest threat. But then again, us unworldly Americans look at hot zones like North Korea, a potentially nuclear Iran (to name two examples) as threats rather than grasping on to a tiny country like Israel.

Is that why it OK to expand? Because Palestine does not really exist???

I actually realized this is the reason for the expansions and it would have been faster if not for the Palestinian uprising.

It is exactly like the 13 colonies expanding on Native American territory... it not really theirs...

The whole layout of that area pretty much sucks anyway. Why put Israel in the middle? Why not give it a water port? Coastal land?

Palestine is not right for what it backs as 'freedom fighting' and they have managed to pull Israel down with them. Israel isn't exactly right either for what it does but it does have the moral upper hand.

Joe, would you please look at a map and tell us where you see expansion? Except for the Golan heights Israel is today exactly the same area it was 50 years ago before the Arabs first invaded it (and made it smaller). Many people claim that Israel expands, but I can see no evidence for such. Maybe you can tell me which areas Israel expanded into since it was born 50 years ago?

The 13 colonies did indeed expand into other people's territory, but so did all the other countries. Today, the US are a democratic country (for all the people living in it) and the Indians are citizens just like anybody else who was born there or was naturalized. What's your problem with that? Do you think it would be more just or fair if instead of 300 million people of all origings there were only 6 or so million Indians living there? Why?

The layout of the area is quite ok, if only the Arabs could get used to the fact that they are not chosen by G*d to kill others whenever they feel like it.

Being from europe, germany to be precise, I would like to make a few comments on your column.
You seem to consider yourself to be a typical american and for americas sake I hope your not.
Your text is full of false facts, inaccuracies and prejudices.
First off it is based on a very flawed poll. I guess you made absolutely no effort to inform yourself about that poll or the situation in Israel save for reading one probably sensational news report on that poll.
You wrote:
'In a recent European poll, 59% of Europeans responded that they think Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.'
The poll actually never asked which country is the biggest threat to world peace, it only asked which country is a thread to world peace. The polled were given a list of 15 nations and they could name multiple countrys. Granted, 59% named Isreal as A (note that its just A not the biggest) threat to world peace, but its pretty obvious that Israel had to come out on top (or at least close to the top in that poll). Israel is very close to Europe, geographically speaking at least, so we get a lot of news reports of the conflicts and incidents there. Thus the people in Europe are well aware of that conflict and so its not in the least surprising that many think that Israel is a threat to world peace.
If the poll hat actually asked for the biggest threat to world peace the results might have been very different.

You also seem to have very little knowledge of the situation in Israel and the conflict there.
Why you wrote that negative part about Egypt in your column is beyond me. Well actually it proves that you dont have a clue on what is going on there. Egypt was the first arabic state that made peace with Isreal and it suffered diplomatic isolation from the other arabic states for that. Egypt is also very activly trying to bring peace into that region.
Egypt is also a democracy so you might want to correct your view about Israel being the only democratic state in that region.
I also didnt hear of any other arabic state that blames Isreal for their internal problems. And while they are taking the side of the palestinians, they do not send 'psychotic Islamic terrorist' to Israel to kill innocent children. That conflict exists between Israel and Palestinia, which you seem to know absolutely nothing about.
I wonder where you got the idea that Israel is a innocent state whos people just try to work hard and peacefully while the evil palestinians bomb up their childrens. Your views are full of ignorance and prejudice and I hope that the average american isnt as narrow sighted as you are.
Do you think that the land down there was empty before the state of Israel was created?
Do you really believe that the palestinians were just a bunch of lazy people who always lived in refugee camps?
The land given to israelis by the UK was not empty, the palestinians lived there and they worked just as hard as the israelis are now to survive. They were driven from their land, they are now working hard to live of the parts of the lands Israel left them with.
They are also not living in peace, they are oppressed by radical israelian settlers (of course some settlers shooting at palestinian farmers picking olives never makes the news), their people and their children die when Israel attacks their settlements with tanks and rockets.
They are so desperate that there are many of them actually willing to blow themselfs up to hurt the people they think are oppressing them.
Isreal is also doing very little to negotiate a peace with the palestinians, which (and now we are back with the poll ) makes them a threat to world peace. Not THE BIGGEST of course, but still a threat.
So the next time you want to write something try to inform yourself a little. Try not to see the world in black and white, its just not that simple.
If you cant do it keep your oppinion to yourself, if its full of prejudice, ignorance and false facts then it will only lead to more ignorance and prejudice and I doubt that you want that.

Before I post this comment, I would like to present my views of the situation in Israel/Palestinia.
First off, I was not my intention to justify the terrorist attacks on Israel even if it might have sounded like that. I wanted to show that Israel is not the innocent state under attack by islamic terrorists that Draginol made it seem to be. I dont think that attacks on innocent people, wether they are suicide bombings or military attacks, are justified in any way, nor are they doing any good.
The conflict there has a long history and both sides are to blame for it not ending.
I also think that the Jews suffered greatly throughout the history, especially in WWII, and it is very justified that they got their own state. But that doesnt mean that the palestinians have to suffer in their place and by their hands now.
Besides, as a german I probably know a little more about the WWII history then Draginol and I do think that the germans are pretty much soley to blame for the extermination of the jews in the concentration campy. Acually even amongst the germans very few actually knew what was happening in the concentration camps.

I also think that most israelis are peaceloving, honest and hard working people, who just want to live a happy live and I think that the same goes for most palestinians. The problems are caused by extremists on both sides, who hold way to much power in their rotten hands.
And when I say that I think that Israel is a threat to world peace, I say it not because I am anti-semitic but because I know that the politicians in Israel are doing very little to nothing to reach peace in their region.

Dradinol, any country that has WMDs is a potential threat given the right situation. Granted Iran and Nth Korea are definite threats, however it only takes the wrong weapons in the wrong hans to make other owners of such weapons fit the same bill. Given the fact that the middle east is not the most stable area on earth, it is concievable that given the right pressures Israel could feel compeled to use its not insignificent arsnel of weapons against another middle eastern state. The threat from Israel is not because they are a hostile nation, rather a nation of people who exist in avery hostile region.
Don't get me wrong I fully suport the efforts of GW and the US and its allies to contain and/or remove these threats, however the fact still remains if you have the capability , you may just feel the need to use it. The major difference to rogue states is that at the moment Israel has a level headed Leader, all it would take is a far more fundamentalist force in power then you have fundamentalist meets fundamentalist. Not a good mix.

Styrkar, I just have to say I am totally aghast by your comment that since you are German you probably know more about WWII than Draginol. What the?! Judging from the amount of opinion vs fact in your comment, I highly doubt that surmission. I am a direct descendent of the settlers of my home town but would never say that that makes me know more about the town than anyone else. Some people eat, sleep and breathe WWII. Also, Draginol was asking Europeans the question "Is Israel the biggest threat to world peace?" Maybe he is just asking to see what Europeans think about that.

You might have a point Andrew J. Brehm, about Isreal actually just takingover land that it was originally given to it.

I will look that up more thoroughly.

LOL, I always love the "If you disagree with my opinion it is only because you are uneducated."

Styrkar, why should I bother putting forth my time to respond to you when you insist on insulting my intelligence? It is the tactic used by the weak minded as an alternative to actually putting forth a cohesive argument.

Jilluser:
I said probably since I dont know Dragi. He might know more about WWII then I do, if he has a special interest in it but I doubt it. Maybe he knows more about the part America took in the war but since I dont know him I cant really tell.
The fact that I am german does make it very likely that I know more about WWII then the average american. Not because I am smarter, simply because WWII is a very large part of my nations recent history, thus it takes up a very large part of the history lessons we got in school. Just as most americans will know more about the american history then I do or that you actually do know a lot more about your home town then I do. Heck I dont even know the name and unless its a very big city I doubt I know in which state it is or that I could point it out on a map.
Its just logically to assume that the closer you are to something the more you know about it, with some exeptions of course, thus the probably.
Dragi wasnt asking the europeans a question to see what we think about it. He was accusing the europeans to be anti-semitic and racists. And he was giving a very biased and false view of the Situation in Palestinia.
And when I read some bul**** like that I am not inclined to give a calm polite answer to it.
Imagine that I want to know what you think of George Bush (I am assuming that your american based on your articles, forgive me if I am mistaken).
I could ask what do you think of George Bush? And state some well researched facts about the things he did as president.
Or I could write a flaming, unfair, illinformed text about the stupid americans that managed to elect a idiotic president, who got the minority of votes, and led the country into a war that led the poor innocent people of iraq into suffering.
The first would be a fair question, the second would just be a unfair, hatefilled article that would only further prejudice just like the thing Dragi wrote.



You got to be kidding. You cant be serious and use all the crimes other nations commited in the past to justify that the palestinians are driven from their land? That people in the US are now living together peacefully doesnt mean that driving the native americans from their land by force was the right thing to do.

And since you were asking.
Israel was allotted 55% of the land (Palestine) by the 1947 partition plan, an additional 23% was captured in the 1948 war and now the remaining 22%, across the “Green Line” (the pre-1967 armistice line), was also captured.
So much for it has not expanded.

Well Draginol, I never said that you were uneducated. I simply said that I probably know more about WWII then you and I did it due to the reasons stated in the previous post.
That was also a very little part in my argument.
I did say that you were ill informed and and biased in your oppinion and I did give several statements to back it up. I admit that I havent been too polite in the reply I wrote, but I dont think that you deserve politeness after unfairly insulting me and pretty much every european as paranoic and racists.

ok... you answer to yourselves quite clearly.

1st: Israel has expanded over the land of the Palestinians. I am sorry friends but i've just checked a 1947 American Atlas and the region it says Palestine. Just Palestine. I suppose Palestine is the land of the palestinians, there is nothing about Israel on it. (do you want that i scan it?)
2nd: Size doesn't matter for being or not being a threat. Tiny countries can be powerful and relevant.
3rd: I wouldn't speak if i were not sure of what i said, and that's more than most of you can say. I've read and researched intensively about Israel and Palestine. I am a doctor in Political Science and i studied in Brighton (UK) Madrid (SP) Krakow (PL) and been working with Ngo's for 10 years on human rights projects all around the world. Yes i worked with jewish communities in Eastern Europe too. And not all jewish people is pro-israel, i must say (would you say that's common sense or are they racist too?) Besides, i have jewish and palestinian good friends.
4th: I never said that i agree with the Palestinian rulers. I agree with the palestinian people and claims towards their homeland. It is, at least, a claim as legitimate as the jewish.
5th: Yes i still hold my opinion that the american point of view on geo-strategy and politics is scary, threatening, unsupported by the majority of the world and, moreover, based on childish assesments. That's why they've made so many mistakes in history (that's why, sometimes, they made some great achievements, too). You have a good thing: you dare to do what other people don't. You have a bad thing: sometimes what you do it's wrong.
6th: Palestinian "terrorists" have blown themselves up in Military controls, thrown grenades to Israeli Military/Police bases...
7th: Israel is also using non-military tactics such as the "peaceful" invasion by colonists. How can you fight against then, who are invaders, acting like soldiers, if you don't have an army? What is the Kibbutz? Isn't it a camp where they do military training too? Aren't this people also trained, when not to hate, to INVADE!!??
8th: Israel has violated more UN resolutions than ANY OTHER country in the world. Still waiting for you to realize.
9th: It's horrifying that some of you said that there is no problem in living behind a wall. Yeah, no big issue, so i hope one day they construct a wall all around the US and you are forced to stay there to feel how it's like. Oh, but wait, now everybody has to put their fingerprints down for the police when travelling to the US, so in a way you are behind a wall already. or maybe the rest of the world is behind it and you think you are free, then...well...whatever, walls just make the world better, no?
10th: Palestinians are living in dirty refugee camps in the hills just because they love it, right? Ok, then, i thought they'd rather live in a decent house in a palestinian city but hey, i was wrong, the palestinian dream is getting their own personal camping tent and living in the most arid place possible, specially if it's infested by rats. Please THINK before speaking...
11th: For "deathmate": I can see that you are raised too full of prejudices and hatred against the palestinians. Just look at what you say!!
12th: In democracy all persons sayings are worth the same, and they can participate in the decisions, for good or bad. In the US democracy seems the right to shut up, swallow, and let others decide...but what if you want to change the system? if you want to fight against what you think it's wrong, or unethical? You are left out of "society" and marginalized. Everything has to be "politically correct". Here we have a little more "active" and open point of view on democracy, after all we created it more than 2000 years ago, and we've had our share of dictatorships too. How many of you VOTED in the last elections? In my country 2 weeks ago 70%. Uh...so don't give lessons to anybody about democracy because there is a small chance that you still have to learn a little about it.

Ooh boy, whatever buddy.

I looked at a map of the world and it says "Europe". So France is clearly taking land away from Europe... But yea, you can really tell you've amassed great knowledge on these issues. I mean with a degree in political science and everything. Like most "experts" you've identified that size/population have nothing to do with world threat right? Luxemberg vs. Soviet Union in the 1960s? Could go either way right?

Strykar: If you ever visited my home you would realize how ridiculous your claim about World War II is (hint: several bookshelves on the subject but a ton of artifacts, WW2 history is my hobby). Suffice to say, my knowledge on World War II is pretty solid.

Draginol, since WWII is your hobby you might know more about it then I do.
So since you insist on talking about that little misconseption I made instead of the actual topic (you know, Israel, Palestinia, who is to blame and the role of europe ...) I would like to know why you made this statement:
An extermination, I might add, that wouldn't have been possible without a wide spread level of cooperation through-out continental Europe (i.e. don't just blame the Germans).
I honestly want to know, since I think that germany, well the NSDAP let by A. Hitler, used the Jews as scapegoats to put the blame for the bad economical situation on and in the end used the SS to get the Jews into concentration camps, use them as a workforce and killing them.
I simply dont see the widespread cooperation throughout Europe the Nazis had to do that. Unless of course you count the countries germany occupied and basicly ruled during that period. But I dont think that you can for example blame France or other countries for the crimes the Nazis commited on their grounds.