Arcon,

I'm afraid it's not "Jewish propaganda", it's simply the truth. It doesn't matter whether you find the truth laughable or don't understand or won't accept it. It's still the truth.

And while we are at it, importance to an individual doesn't make a cause moral. I know how important killing Jews is to many Palestinians, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

When I hear you talking, it becomes clear to me why you refer to the truth as "Jewish propaganda".

"Israel shouldn't exist."

The United Nations and even many Arab countries have accepted that even the Jews have a right to their own country. If you don't, then I guess history will leave you behind, you and the other anti-semites. It's tough luck for you though.


Pablo,

keep in mind that ever since you felt you could make your opinion more valuable by claiming to be a doctor of Political Science I won't believe a word you are saying unless you back it up with a source. And no, Palestinian propaganda is NOT a source.

As for school attacks, your "source" lied:

http://www.education.gov.il/children/page_53.htm

Incidentally, now that I know what numbers you base your opinion on, it becomes more clear to me why you believe what you believe.

If you really believe that only six Israeli kids died in the conflict, you might have to rethink your position now.

http://www.education.gov.il/children/page_42_b.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,99102,00.html

A few oddities emerge.

1. Palestinian terrorists always seem to choose Jewish holidays for their attacks.

2. Israeli attacks on palestinians always come AFTER a terrorist attack.

So presumably the Palestinians could end the conflict if they only managed to get over their urge to kill Jews. That, of course, won't happen.

And as for the "refugee" camps, I think it is entirely possible for other Arab countries to simply let these "refugees" live in other Arab countries. If the Arabs prefer their "brothers" to live in camps instead, that's their own bad, not Israel's.

Now, let's look at the facts and see whether they might change your opinion.

1. Palestinians act, Israel reacts. This means Palestinians could end the conflict by not acting. They don't. It's not Israel's fault.

2. Your numbers are wrong.

3. Israel has absorped Jews expelled from Arab nations, Arabs do not absorp Palestinians who left Israel. Israel CANNOT allow Palestinian "refugees" into Israel, since we all know what they would do to the Jews. And Arabs won't allow the expelled Jews back. So the obvious solution is to let the Arabs take care of the Palestinian "refugees".

What's your problem with that?

"I was shocked after reading about the Europeans and there stupidity. "

I supose you don´t need saying anything else.

Peace in the region will come either as a result of the utter decimation of the Palestinians, or the creation of an expansive Palestinian state. Terrorists, which many Palestinian groups, such as Hamas are, will not stop fighting until they have reciveed all the land that they could feasibly ever get. Israel, an oasis of judism in a sea of islam, is certainly going to be the first and only place the Palestinians would attack, thus, the only way Palestine will ever be happy is to gain control of all of Israel.

Arcon: Thanks man, your wisdom is greatly appreciated. Not. Obviously sarcasm is greatly lost upon your far superior mind considering I would never be able to understand the effects of nuclear fallout and the effects that last generations. SARCASM MAN! READ ABOUT IT!

I said what I said to illustrate a point; the only way peace will exist in the region is if you completely get rid of the problem. Of course it’s not realistic, of course it won't (here's hoping) happen. Now back to reality, and this regularly scheduled "debate."

So Israeli has no right to exist eh? No historical reason for being there, no significance, nothing? Oh RIGHT, but the Arabs do since they have a god given mandate of it being their religious "Mecca." Well, um, hate to burst your bubble but the Jews have a pretty similar claim there too. Oh wait, now it all falls back onto religion and we get screwed, right? So now religion becomes to the worlds greatest problem, which it arguably is. Without religion we'd all be a lot better off. However, saying it shouldn't exist is like saying we should nuke the place. Simple, but COMPLETELY unrealistic.

Oh, btw, last time I checked the Nazi's weren't really invading China and destroying Buddhist temples. They were kind of involved half a world away. Playstations bad, remember?

As to the Israeli's invading a country and subjugating the Palestinians, well, they aren't a sovereign state. They have no certified country, WHO is recognizing them? Until they're recognized as a sovereign entity but multiple, major powers or the U.N., then all they are is terrorists, traitors, and guerilla warriors.

man, if you study hard and go to the university you can be a doctor one day too. i seriously dont care about what you believe or not. you are free to be right or wrong. I am used to back my opinions, i don't need that advice, thank you.

so you say that i lie and you back your opinions with links from the israeli government. that's so clever!!

my sources are simply an independent association of jewish people for the peace in the middle east, and they prove you wrong. common sense proves you wrong too, political analisys proves you wrong too. again, look at the death toll, that proves you wrong too.

so, even if we took as a fact the more than dubious statement that the land there was not from the palestinians (who for 2.000 years were 75% of the population), but controlled by some other empire such as Rome, Turkey, England... does that imply that the creation of a jewish state there is more legitimate than the creation of a palestinian state there? Why?

you keep on believing israeli sources and jewish-lobby television channels, you keep on believing american sources and american channels. Why not have a look, just a look, at the arab channels, or at some of the european sources of information? They prove your statements are completely wrong.

Reality is far from what you believe, my friends. You are wrong about your statements about Israel

Israel was created over the dead bodies of the Palestinian people. All of a sudden, a few Jews decided that its now time to drive out the native people of a foreign country, murder them, kill them, rape their women and so on and so forth. Maybe Adolf Hitler did all of us a favor by wiping most of these Jews out of this world. They are a plague to every society.

Riad,
your end comments are a total disgust. Please refrain from such blatant racism.

Paul.

To put your initial comments in perspective

America was created over the dead bodies of Indian people.

Germany (third Reich) was being created over the dead bodies of slavs and Jews

Anywhere in history and in almost any race you can find examples of nations created over the dead of other nations. What's important is the now though. Giving all people equal rights in their nation or even their own nation. Nations with different cultures within them have particular difficulties in ensuring that all these cultures are equally respected. Many other regions and countries have had to work hard to achieve this. Israel and the Palestinians will have to do the same.

Paul.

Terrorism comes in many forms. The attack on America on Sept 11, 2003 was terrorism.
The US-led attack on Iraq this year was also terrorism, as the reason the US attacked Iraq was not due to Iraq's possession of WMD(which they clearly didn't have) but because the neo-cons in the White House have an idealogical strategy for the Middle East, and the invasion of Iraq plays a part in that. If you believe the 9/11 attack was terrorism, but the attack on Iraq was not, then you are someone who believes the US should be allowed to live by double-standards ie one law for the US, and one law for the rest of the world. The Europeans won't let the US get away with that, which is why they believe 9/11 and the attack on Iraq are both acts of terrorism and which is why the US is joint 2nd (with Iran and North Korea) on the European Union's "Axis of Evil". Israel is no.1 on this list not because of anti-semitism, but because Europeans understand that the Israel/Palestinian conflict is the root cause of the problems in the Middle East(and the root cause of Islamic-fundamentalist attacks against the US and allies worldwide) and they believe that Sharon is excarbating the Israel/Palestinian problem. If the US continues to take sides with Israel instead of acting impartially between Israel and the Palestinians, this conflict is going to continue to spread around the globe and one day we'll be seeing mushroom clouds on the horizon.

Looks like nobody is using this post, but I'll correct my last one if only for my sake. Sept 11, 2003 was meant to have read Sept 11, 2001.