Euro Myopia and Tsunamis

Not living in the real world...

http://varifrank.com/archives/2005/01/today_i_was_unp_1.php
from JoeUser Forums

People seem to be really obsessed over how much cash different countries are pledging. One thing that doesn't (surprise) get that much coverage is how much money different countries have already spent in reality.

As I surf the web, one thing that comes up over and over is the utter lack of understanding of logistics. It's as if some people imagine that food, water, shelter, clothing just magically appear to victims of the Tsunamis.  One almost imagines they they picture a Star Trek like beaming sequence of food stuffs to isolated groups of people in the Indian ocean region.

But in reality, this stuff has to be delivered and it has to be delivered quickly. How long can you go without fresh water? How long can you go without food? How about medical treatment? That's where the US military comes into play. And it's amazing how little coverage this is getting because as a practical matter, the US (and Australia) are the only two countries that are able to effectively deliver aid in a timely manner.

Rebuilding funds from around the world months from now will be very helpful. But they'd be pretty useless to the tens of thousands who would die if there wasn't a US Navy to actually provide the logistics to provide all the stuff.

As Varifrank wrote:

Today, during an afternoon conference that wrapped up my project of the last 18 months, one of my Euro collegues tossed this little turd out to no one in particular:

" See, this is why George Bush is so dumb, theres a disaster in the world and he sends an Aircraft Carrier..."

After which he and many of my Euro collegues laughed out loud.

And then they looked at me. I wasn't laughing, and neither was my Hindi friend sitting next to me, who has lost family in the disaster.

I'm afraid I was "unprofessional", I let it loose -

"Hmmm, let's see, what would be the ideal ship to send to a disaster, now what kind of ship would we want?

Something with its own inexhuastible power supply?

Something that can produce 900,000 gallons of fresh water a day from sea water?

Something with its own airfield? So that after producing the fresh water, it could help distribute it?

Something with 4 hospitals and lots of open space for emergency supplies?

Something with a global communications facility to make the coordination of disaster relief in the region easier?

Well "Franz", us peasants in America call that kind of ship an "Aircraft Carrier". We have 12 of them. How many do you have?

8,318 views 28 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Just goes to prove it's easy to throw rocks when standing behind a wall of ignorance.
Most people tend to overlook the logistics of a situation, especially when their mind is made up already. Good article.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
People don't get it, and being an Ex-Military guy myself, I know a bit about logistics. We're the one doing a majority of the logistics there.

I saw a program 2 nights ago, and said for one ship of ours to be there (and we have many), its something like 150 million dollars a day. For ONE ship.. Not counting the helicopters and everything else. The expenses of our military there is going to be massive, i'd expect nearly a billion dollars in military costs alone after its all over.

What did china and france send, a couple row boats?
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
It makes you wonder on the intelligence of the Bush Haters.  Honest disagreement with the man's policies is one thing, but to make a fool of yourself at every step trying to belittle him just shows your own stupidity.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
This makes me think of an old saying: "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics."
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
It makes you wonder on the intelligence of the Bush Haters


I would like the guy alot better if he would occasionally state..

"Get er done" and scratch his nads.....
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Are we done tooting our own horn here, or are we going to start actually caring for people who need us?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's the same old song. It doesn't matter to some people what you are actually doing to help, as long as people think that you're helping. The industrialized world seems to be in a bidding war, loudly trying point out how low the others' bids are. Well, after the bidding is over, and all the money gets thrown at the disaster relief, all that will matter is that the disaster relief occured.

The naysayers would do well to quit talking about who is merely pledging "help" and who is actually helping.

(and no I don't mean just the US, I mean all who are actually helping).
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
What did china and france send, a couple row boats?


nice to see more ignorance from the US side by the second post. France also sent a carrier to the region, but can we say well done France? No we can't. We just look at this as an oppertunity to spread ignorance and slander France. China has sent more aid to this disaster than to any other event ever. It's a huge symbol from it and it is heavily involved in helping Thailand identify bodies. Can we say well done China? No we can't.

Yes the US has done an excellent job in sending an aircraft carrier to the region, but that's no reason to bash the contributions from other countries. Logistics are important, but so are skilled people and aid. Let's stop putting contributions from other countries down. Do feel free to correct peoples misconceptions as to the importance of logistics but do so in a positive manner. So thank every country for their aid, correct people with misconceptions, and stop trying to put down other countries.

Paul.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
As you have pointed out, ignorance is not confined to one particular group; good to see someone is looking at the whole picture, and with more objectivity than some.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
As you have pointed out, ignorance is not confined to one particular group; good to see someone is looking at the whole picture, and with more objectivity than some.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes the US has done an excellent job in sending an aircraft carrier to the region, but that's no reason to bash the contributions from other countries. Logistics are important, but so are skilled people and aid. Let's stop putting contributions from other countries down. Do feel free to correct peoples misconceptions as to the importance of logistics but do so in a positive manner. So thank every country for their aid, correct people with misconceptions, and stop trying to put down other countries.

The article was not bashing other countries, and you had to read far into the comments to find some France Bashing.  But your first comment was to pick the nits.  WHy not comment on the article first, and then pick the nits?  You are guilty of what you accuse others of.  It would kill you to say "Well done Bush" Or "America".

Me thinks you best not look into a mirror.  You will not like the man staring back.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
nice to see more ignorance from the US side by the second post. France also sent a carrier to the region, but can we say well done France? No we can't.


I say well done France, in the Indian Ocean relief effort and the war on terror also. While the French wouldn't help us in Iraq, there are French troops and sailors in nearly every other facet. I'm not defending France's (or anyone else's) participation in the joke the UN called the "oil for food" program, or the equally unfunny pun of "containment" of Hussein. However, I am willing to give credit where credit is due.

Ok, your turn.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dr Guy,
I have many times stated that the US is doing a good job here and should be appluaded. What part of 'an excellent job' makes you think that I don't see this as 'well done America'?
To argue about my paragraph order is very pedantic and purely a matter of writing sytle. There are two short paragraphs with me clearly referrencing the question the first paragraph was responding to. The second paragraph then stresses the good work the US is doing, stressing that logistics is important and that Brad is right to clear peoples misconceptions. It concludes that all contributions should be applauded (effectively saying that waving the US flag and pointing out the good things they are doing does not require the burning of the French or Chinese flags).

Paul.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

To argue about my paragraph order is very pedantic and purely a matter of writing sytle

Yes......, But...........

Hardly a testimonial.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Amazing how a disaster in one country can be yet another excuse to criticize other countries.
While I was proud of humanity in this disaster relief, the more I read comments such as some here the more I'm revising my human pride again...
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Amazing how a disaster in one country can be yet another excuse to criticize other countries.


Oh Paxx, that's just a part of it. You should hear the politicing that goes on between disaster relief outfits during high profile jobs like this!!! Everything from vying for relief dollars to jockying for the "best" sectors of the disaster scene. If you pay enough attention, one disaster to another, you will hear the same org names over and over. Hint: They're the ones who get the sector closest to where the press is stationed, which isn't usually the area closest to the most need.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

Now, I admittedly, would be one initially questioning the use of an aircraft carrier. But, this provides a more than adequate answer and explains why something that might NOT make sense to someone not familiar with the capabilities of certain military machinery (such as an aircraft carrier), might want to obtain more information before criticizing.

It's also a good explanation of why our aid is far from "stingy". The resources we're providing in the form of logistics extend far beyond any measurable dollar value.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
The resources we're providing in the form of logistics extend far beyond any measurable dollar value.


True, but apparently it is only the dollar signs that seem to matter. Sadly.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

While I understand that some may have taken Brad's post to be a bashing of those people who "hate America" and "hate Bush", I believe the more constructive interpretation would be a bashing of "stupid people" who don't understand logistical problems or the capabilities of an Aircraft Carrier.  Therefore everyone, republicans and Demorcats should get a laugh out of the appropriateness of Brad's response, and those who use this as a stick to beat Frenchies or Democrats, are just as ignorant as the Euros who couldn't understand why Bush would send an Aircraft Carrier.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Bush is the smartest guy in the world, but I don't think he's stupid, nor for that matter are his advisors, and I don't think he would send the "wrong ship" to aid with a disaster.  I believe Bush genuinely wants to help disaster victims and this terrible event should not be used as an excuse to snipe at either side.

Cheers

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I believe the more constructive interpretation would be a bashing of "stupid people" who don't understand logistical problems or the capabilities of an Aircraft Carrier.


Let's put it into simpler terms for those who do not understand.

A Submarine: Could you imagine trying to land a helo on the deck of a sub and load up a crate of goats? Better yet, where ther heck are they gonna stow those goats during the voyage?

A Battleship: While being an awesome sight to behold, I do not think lobbing volkswagons into a country that no longer has roads would be considered aid.

Aegis Cruiser: While it may have more logistical capabilities than say, a submarine, it is doubtfull that a Tomohawk can be adapted to drop food instead of exploding over the intended drop zone.

Coast Guard IceBreaker: Unless the islands need to be defended from giant killer icebergs, this is a NO-GO.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: paxxPosted: Monday, January 10, 2005Are we done tooting our own horn here, or are we going to start actually caring for people who need us?


What have you personally done?
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
nice to see more ignorance from the US side by the second post. France also sent a carrier to the region, but can we say well done France? No we can't. We just look at this as an oppertunity to spread ignorance and slander France. China has sent more aid to this disaster than to any other event ever. It's a huge symbol from it and it is heavily involved in helping Thailand identify bodies. Can we say well done China? No we can't.


nice job france.... nice job china.../. hows that? altho I do not think 4 frenchmen inna 12 ft klamath qualifies assa carrier... hahahahahaha
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
What have you personally done?


Does it matter? I am not going to play the "I donated more than you" game anymore than the "my country donated more than yours" game. What matters is that there are people in need of help over there and that a LOT of countries are helping. We should be proud of our general response as human beings caring for others of our kind. Sure the homo sapiens can be one of the cruelest species on this planet, but in times such as these we can really be proud of ourselves.
It's not about "Americans are sending stupid aircraft carriers" nor about "Stupid frenchmen can't even build a boat" nor about other weener comparison contest... Heck it's not about America, or France, or Germany, or China... it's about people in the Indian Ocean.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do not think 4 frenchmen inna 12 ft klamath qualifies assa carrier


Moderateman, what was the point of that comment? Brad wrote this article because of people unjustly laughing at the US aid, and in response you just laugh at the French aid. Why? Why can't you just accept it. Are you really that racist? Do you really take pleasure in insulting French people?

Paul.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Are you really that racist? Do you really take pleasure in insulting French people?

French (or Gaul) is not a race.  It is a nationality.