BX BX

An Invitation to The Truth

An Invitation to The Truth

Hi Folks
How are you. Some-times ago, there used to be a thread ragarding evolution vs creation. this made me to find the real truth based on Scientific Methods. Being a bliever I believed that there is ONE GOD who has created all of us and the whole universe but this site opened a whole universe of new worlds to me.
Hope u ppl will like this site and meterial on the site. ALL BOOKS OF THIS AUTHOR ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ALL THE MOVIES THERE AS WELL

http://www.harunyahya.com
26,628 views 123 replies
Reply #101 Top
I'd type my ma hands are busy...























I was tying my shoes.... sheesh
Reply #103 Top
scuse me, lil commercial here:

Hey paxxy they only (1) copy of the messenger and it was in the damaged box so they referred me to a DVD - Joan of ARC 1999 LeeLee Sobieski? now if I can talk the boys out of this silly flick Goonies they wanted to rent I'll be able to check out this Joan of Arc chick...

and to stick this back on topic:

Anyone who tries to explain God will always seem like a nut to everyone cuz they are trying to explain something that is not physical cuz God is a Holy Spirit, how can anyone explain something that does not have physical being to prove, that means you either have Faith by witness of what you can see him in (which is the Earth and everything he made) and use the tools to assist you to come to understand him better such as maybe Bibles and Churches?

Look what happened to Jesus when he tried to explain things? they killed him thinking he was a nut, and if Jesus was right boy are we all in big trouble...
Reply #104 Top
China I just posted my post while you apparently were typing yours out... hehe

anyways nope me no know this Joan but paxxy got me all curious now so I'll know more after I check this flick out tonight (if my kids will let me watch my own TV sheesh!) argh!
Reply #106 Top
Dor, The one with LeeLee is good too!


Reply #107 Top
Hiya Gary...fancy meeting you here
Reply #108 Top
where did everyone come from? last post I spotted here when I started to type was Sput's post, hehe
anyways hi you guys! KISS
and I can't wait to see this what I read this morning on some links was she hated dresses so she sounds like me! hehe
(however God would really have to beat me down to make me cut off my hair!)
Reply #109 Top
ahh u lucky then, some of us wish we had hair ta cut ....
Reply #110 Top
...yeah Annie...when ya sneek around like we do, ya gotta meet in strange places....



Powered by SkinBrowser!
Reply #111 Top
Ain't that the truth
Reply #112 Top
well alil freaky watching Doogie Hauser play the part of the King when the girl playing Joan should have been the King and between renting a bunk DVD that kept skipping parts, it was an okay flick wise guy paxxy... hehe
pretty good
Reply #113 Top
HI Folks!!!!
How are you people. Sorry I had some works to do so for this reason I was unable to reply you timely. A few Words about some Very Important Questions:

1. Who created god?
Very Important one. But there is one differrence between Us and He the Almighty. Let me to explain this one:
The question is derived from the obser­vation of (what are taken to be) ‘cause and effect’ rela­tionships. Every circumstance can be thought of as an ‘effect’ and attributed to an antecedent circumstance or ‘cause’ which, in turn, is attributed to some circumstance antecedent to it, and so on. In the first place, it is obvi­ous to anyone who reasons objectively that the notion of ‘cause’ is only an hypothesis, it has no objective exis­tence: all that objectively exists is a particular, often (but not always) repeated sequence of circumstances. Sec­ondly, if this hypothesis is applied to existence as a whole, we cannot find a creator of it because each cr­eator must have a creator before that creator, in a never-ending chain. (In fact, the futile notion of a never-ending chain of creators was one of the arguments used by Mus­lim theologians to explain the necessity of believing in God.)

It is self-evident that the Creator must be Self-Subsis­tent and One, without like or equal. If any created being can be said to ‘cause’ anything, that capacity to ‘cause’ was itself created within that being. Thus, no being in the universe can be said to be self-existent rather, it owes its existence to the Creator who alone is Self-Existent as well as Self-Subsistent.

It is self-evident that the Creator must be Self-Subsis­tent and One, without like or equal. If any created being can be said to ‘cause’ anything, that capacity to ‘cause’ was itself created within that being. Thus, no being in the universe can be said to be self-existent rather, it owes its existence to the Creator who alone is Self-Exis­tent as well as Self-Subsistent. It follows from the fact that the Creator alone truly creates that for each and every being He has determined all possible ‘causes’ and ‘effects’, all things whatever that come before or after it. Therefore, we speak of God as the Sustainer, who holds and gives life to His Creation from first to last. All ‘causes’ have their beginning in Him, and all ‘effects’ find their ending in Him. In truth, created things are no more than so many ciphers or zeros which, no matter how many we put in a series, add up to nothing, unless a positive ‘one’ is placed before the series to give it value. In just this way, the creation could have no real exis­tence, nor any value, except by God.

What we call ‘causes’ have no direct or independent influence in existence, no direct or independent ‘effects’. It may be that we need to speak of ‘causes and effects’ in order to understand how, in a short space and over a lit­tle period of time, some part of the Creation is made (by the Mercy of God) intelligible to us and available to us for our use. But even this but confirms our dependence upon God and our answerability before Him. It is not God who needs ‘causes and effects’ to create rather it is we who need ‘causes and effects’ to understand what He has created. He alone is the First and the Last, the Eternal, the Initiator and the Determiner—and all our busy little efforts after cause and effect are but veils be­tween ourselves and His Majesty.

Let us then affirm once more: He, God, is One God, the Self-Subsistent, Eternally-Besought-of-All He neither begets nor was begotten and nothing whatever is like unto Him.

2. IF EVERY THING IS CREATED THEN WHAT IS THE SCOPE OF Evolution?

The Answer to this Question is A little bit more lengthy.

Despite having its roots in ancient Greece, the theory of evolution was first brought to the attention of the scientific world in the nineteenth century. The most thoroughly considered view of evolution was expressed by the French biologist Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, in his Zoological Philosophy (1809). Lamarck thought that all living things were endowed with a vital force that drove them to evolve toward greater complexity. He also thought that organisms could pass on to their offspring traits acquired during their lifetimes. As an example of this line of reasoning, Lamarck suggested that the long neck of the giraffe evolved when a short-necked ancestor took to browsing on the leaves of trees instead of on grass.

This evolutionary model of Lamarck's was invalidated by the discovery of the laws of genetic inheritance. In the middle of the twentieth century, the discovery of the structure of DNA revealed that the nuclei of the cells of living organisms possess very special genetic information, and that this information could not be altered by "acquired traits." In other words, during its lifetime, even though a giraffe managed to make its neck a few centimeters longer by extending its neck to upper branches, this trait would not pass to its offspring. In brief, the Lamarckian view was simply refuted by scientific findings, and went down in history as a flawed assumption.

However, the evolutionary theory formulated by another natural scientist who lived a couple of generations after Lamarck proved to be more influential. This natural scientist was Charles Robert Darwin, and the theory he formulated is known as "Darwinism."



The Birth of Darwinism

Charles Darwin based his theory on various observations he made as a young naturalist on board the H.M.S Beagle, which sailed in late 1831 on a five-year official voyage around the world. Young Darwin was heavily influenced by the diversity of species he observed, especially of the different Galapagos Island finches. The differences in the beaks of these birds, Darwin thought, were a result of their adaptation to their different environments.

After this voyage, Darwin started to visit animal markets in England. He observed that breeders produced new breeds of cow by mating animals with different characteristics. This experience, together with the different finch species he observed in the Galapagos Islands, contributed to the formulation of his theory. In 1859, he published his views in his book The Origin of Species. In this book, he postulated that all species had descended from a single ancestor, evolving from one another over time by slight variations.

What made Darwin's theory different from Lamarck's was his emphasis on "natural ion." Darwin theorized that there is a struggle for survival in nature, and that natural ion is the survival of strong species, which can adapt to their environment. Darwin adopted the following line of reasoning:

Within a particular species, there are natural and coincidental variations. For instance some cows are bigger than others, while some have darker colors. Natural ion s the favorable traits. The process of natural ion thus causes an increase of favorable genes within a population, which results in the features of that population being better adapted to local conditions. Over time these changes may be significant enough to cause a new species to arise.
However, this "theory of evolution by natural ion" gave rise to doubts from the very first:

1- What were the "natural and coincidental variations" referred to by Darwin? It was true that some cows were bigger than others, while some had darker colors, yet how could these variations provide an explanation for the diversity in animal and plant species?

2- Darwin asserted that "Living beings evolved gradually." In this case, there should have lived millions of "transitional forms." Yet there was no trace of these theoretical creatures in the fossil record. Darwin gave considerable thought to this problem, and eventually arrived at the conclusion that "further research would provide these fossils."

3- How could natural ion explain complex organs, such as eyes, ears or wings? How can it be advocated that these organs evolved gradually, bearing in mind that they would fail to function if they had even a single part missing?

4- Before considering these questions, consider the following: How did the first organism, the so-called ancestor of all species according to Darwin, come into existence? Could natural processes give life to something which was originally inanimate?

Darwin was, at least, aware of some these questions, as can be seen from the chapter "Difficulties of the Theory." However, the answers he provided had no scientific validity. H.S. Lipson, a British physicist, makes the following comments about these "difficulties" of Darwin's:

On reading The Origin of Species, I found that Darwin was much less sure himself than he is often represented to be the chapter entitled "Difficulties of the Theory" for example, shows considerable self-doubt. As a physicist, I was particularly intrigued by his comments on how the eye would have arisen.1

Darwin invested all his hopes in advanced scientific research, which he expected to dispel the "difficulties of the theory." However, contrary to his expectations, more recent scientific findings have merely increased these difficulties.



The Problem of the Origin of Life

In his book, Darwin never mentioned the origin of life. The primitive understanding of science in his time rested on the assumption that living things had very simple structures. Since mediaeval times, spontaneous generation, the theory that non-living matter could come together to form living organisms, had been widely accepted. It was believed that insects came into existence from leftover bits of food. It was further imagined that mice came into being from wheat. Interesting experiments were conducted to prove this theory. Some wheat was placed on a dirty piece of cloth, and it was believed that mice would emerge in due course.
Similarly, the fact that maggots appeared in meat was believed to be evidence for spontaneous generation. However, it was only realized some time later that maggots did not appear in meat spontaneously, but were carried by flies in the form of larvae, invisible to the naked eye.

Even in the period when Darwin's Origin of Species was written, the belief that bacteria could come into existence from inanimate matter was widespread.

However, five years after the publication of Darwin's book, Louis Pasteur announced his results after long studies and experiments, which disproved spontaneous generation, a cornerstone of Darwin's theory. In his triumphal lecture at the Sorbonne in 1864, Pasteur said, "Never will the doctrine of spontaneous generation recover from the mortal blow struck by this simple experiment."2

Advocates of the theory of evolution refused to accept Pasteur's findings for a long time. However, as scientific progress revealed the complex structure of the cell, the idea that life could come into being coincidentally faced an even greater impasse. We shall consider this subject in some detail in this book.



The Problem of Genetics

Another subject that posed a quandary for Darwin's theory was inheritance. At the time when Darwin developed his theory, the question of how living beings transmitted their traits to other generations-that is, how inheritance took place-was not completely understood. That is why the naive belief that inheritance was transmitted through blood was commonly accepted.

Vague beliefs about inheritance led Darwin to base his theory on completely false grounds. Darwin assumed that natural ion was the "mechanism of evolution." Yet one question remained unanswered: How would these "useful traits" be ed and transmitted from one generation to the next? At this point, Darwin embraced the Lamarckian theory, that is, "the inheritance of acquired traits." In his book The Great Evolution Mystery, Gordon R. Taylor, a researcher advocating the theory of evolution, expresses the view that Darwin was heavily influenced by Lamarck:

Lamarckism... is known as the inheritance of acquired characteristics... Darwin himself, as a matter of fact, was inclined to believe that such inheritance occurred and cited the reported case of a man who had lost his fingers and bred sons without fingers... [Darwin] had not, he said, gained a single idea from Lamarck. This was doubly ironical, for Darwin repeatedly toyed with the idea of the inheritance of acquired characteristics and, if it is so dreadful, it is Darwin who should be denigrated rather than Lamarck... In the 1859 edition of his work, Darwin refers to 'changes of external conditions' causing variation but subsequently these conditions are described as directing variation and cooperating with natural ion in directing it... Every year he attributed more and more to the agency of use or disuse... By 1868 when he published Varieties of Animals and Plants under Domestication he gave a whole series of examples of supposed Lamarckian inheritance: such as a man losing part of his little finger and all his sons being born with deformed little fingers, and boys born with foreskins much reduced in length as a result of generations of circumcision.3

However, Lamarck's thesis, as we have seen above, was disproved by the laws of genetic inheritance discovered by the Austrian monk and botanist, Gregor Mendel. The concept of "useful traits" was therefore left unsupported. Genetic laws showed that acquired traits are not passed on, and that genetic inheritance takes place according to certain unchanging laws. These laws supported the view that species remain unchanged. No matter how much the cows that Darwin saw in England's animal fairs bred, the species itself would never change: cows would always remain cows.
Gregor Mendel announced the laws of genetic inheritance that he discovered as a result of long experiment and observation in a scientific paper published in 1865. But this paper only attracted the attention of the scientific world towards the end of the century. By the beginning of the twentieth century, the truth of these laws had been accepted by the whole scientific community. This was a serious dead-end for Darwin's theory, which tried to base the concept of "useful traits" on Lamarck.

Here we must correct a general misapprehension: Mendel opposed not only Lamarck's model of evolution, but also Darwin's. As the article "Mendel's Opposition to Evolution and to Darwin," published in the Journal of Heredity, makes clear, "he [Mendel] was familiar with The Origin of Species ...and he was opposed to Darwin's theory Darwin was arguing for descent with modification through natural ion, Mendel was in favor of the orthodox doctrine of special creation."4

The laws discovered by Mendel put Darwinism in a very difficult position. For these reasons, scientists who supported Darwinism tried to develop a different model of evolution in the first quarter of the twentieth century. Thus was born "neo-Darwinism."



The Efforts of Neo-Darwinism

A group of scientists who were determined to reconcile Darwinism with the science of genetics, in one way or another, came together at a meeting organized by the Geological Society of America in 1941. After long discussion, they agreed on ways to create a new interpretation of Darwinism and over the next few years, specialists produced a synthesis of their fields into a revised theory of evolution.

The scientists who participated in establishing the new theory included the geneticists G. Ledyard Stebbins and Theodosius Dobzhansky, the zoologists Ernst Mayr and Julian Huxley, the paleontologists George Gaylord Simpson and Glenn L. Jepsen, and the mathematical geneticists Sir Ronald A. Fisher and Sewall Wright.5

To counter the fact of "genetic stability" (genetic homeostasis), this group of scientists employed the concept of "mutation," which had been proposed by the Dutch botanist Hugo de Vries at the beginning of the 20th century. Mutations were defects that occurred, for unknown reasons, in the inheritance mechanism of living things. Organisms undergoing mutation developed some unusual structures, which deviated from the genetic information they inherited from their parents. The concept of "random mutation" was supposed to provide the answer to the question of the origin of the advantageous variations which caused living organisms to evolve according to Darwin's theory-a phenomenon that Darwin himself was unable to explain, but simply tried to side-step by referring to Lamarck. The Geological Society of America group named this new theory, which was formulated by adding the concept of mutation to Darwin's natural ion thesis, the "synthetic theory of evolution" or the "modern synthesis". In a short time, this theory came to be known as "neo-Darwinism" and its supporters as "neo-Darwinists."
Yet there was a serious problem: It was true that mutations changed the genetic data of living organisms, yet this change always occurred to the detriment of the living thing concerned. All observed mutations ended up with disfigured, weak, or diseased individuals and, sometimes, led to the death of the organism. Hence, in an attempt to find examples of "useful mutations" which improve the genetic data in living organisms, neo-Darwinists conducted many experiments and observations. For decades, they conducted mutation experiments on fruit flies and various other species. However, in none of these experiments could a mutation which improved the genetic data in a living being be seen.

Today the issue of mutation is still a great impasse for Darwinism. Despite the fact that the theory of natural ion considers mutations to be the unique source of "useful changes," no mutations of any kind have been observed that are actually useful (that is, that improve the genetic information). In the following chapter, we will consider this issue in detail.

Another impasse for neo-Darwinists came from the fossil record. Even in Darwin's time, fossils were already posing an important obstacle to the theory. While Darwin himself accepted the lack of fossils of "intermediate species," he also predicted that further research would provide evidence of these lost transitional forms. However, despite all the paleontologists' efforts, the fossil record continued to remain a serious obstacle to the theory. One by one, concepts such as "vestigial organs," "embryological recapitulation" and "homology" lost all significance in the light of new scientific findings. All these issues are dealt with more fully in the remaining chapters of this book.



A Theory in Crisis

We have just reviewed in summary form the impasse Darwinism found itself in from the day it was first proposed. We will now start to analyze the enormous dimensions of this deadlock. In doing this, our intention is to show that the theory of evolution is not indisputable scientific truth, as many people assume or try to impose on others. On the contrary, there is a glaring contradiction when the theory of evolution is compared to scientific findings in such diverse fields as the origin of life, population genetics, comparative anatomy, paleontology, and biochemistry. In a word, evolution is a theory in "crisis."
That is a description by Prof. Michael Denton, an Australian biochemist and a renowned critic of Darwinism. In his book Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), Denton examined the theory in the light of different branches of science, and concluded that the theory of natural ion is very far from providing an explanation for life on earth.6 Denton's intention in offering his criticism was not to show the correctness of another view, but only to compare Darwinism with the scientific facts. During the last two decades, many other scientists have published significant works questioning the validity of Darwin's theory of evolution.

AND to Doreen: Thankx for Support. I m he.....
[Message Edited]
Reply #114 Top
Who was it that said to expect Arkantos to breeze in with a huge copy-paste then disappear again into the blue?
Not a discussion at all...more a lecture.
Reply #116 Top
Jafo, you got a knack of summing up my blabbery into a few words. Maybe I should read more.
Reply #117 Top
jafo - does it count as (C) infringement on these boards when people copy and paste things wholesale like this?

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/short_history.html

<= seems to be the original source of most of it.

I used to debate evolution/made up pseudo-science with people on the BBC science boards, and this hit and run with a huge copy and paste (in an attempt to try and make people think they have a brain) was a very common tactic used by those anti-science evangelists. The stance of the mods on those boards was that such a practice (by anyone on any subject) was a clear breech of (c) and had to be removed to prevent them being open to legal action.

In response to the post though:

1 - doesn't answer anything. It's impressive sounding gobbledeegook which just asserts "god is special so we can invent anything we like to try and explain things".

2 - shows a poor understanding of the mechanisms and evidence for evolution, and disregards and misrepresents science so badly as to be ludicrous.

If the person wishes to debate this sort of stuff, I'd recomend:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?state=threads&board=science.created&

Where they'll find a number of like minded people being constantly put straight on the actual science by experts in many fields (though, they never seem able to actually learn anything beyond the dogma they've latched on to).

Reply #118 Top
Yawn...(again)
Reply #119 Top
(actually the bbc origins board seems to have decended into a poor state at the moment. It's been 6 months or so since I posted there regularly....I started skining as a way to ween myself off it )
Reply #120 Top
AND to Doreen: Thankx for Support. I m he.....
#113 by Sir ^^Arkantos^^ - 4/16/2004 11:14:23 AM

your welcome

but if I can't sit still long enough to try to read through the Bible there is no way on earth I'm reading all that up there! hehe
Reply #121 Top
You didn't answer my questions...

I will quit talking here now due to the fact you can't convince someone that everything he believes is wrong.
You should try it arkantos, its like looking in from the outside seeing things really clear etc... (no offence!)


Doreen, funny thing is I've read the bible... prefered the manual from Win ME
[Message Edited]
Reply #122 Top
One thing is clear, you are all sinners...
Reply #123 Top
One thing is clear, you are all sinners...


Slight correction, WE are all sinners. (That means every one of us)