Fuzzy Logic Fuzzy Logic

Mountain Biker's Anonymous...

Mountain Biker's Anonymous...

Bitten by the mountain biking bug? Unload your technicals in here. Anything biking goes (no roadies please...)

Do you just sit and look at it? Is it something you dream of? Tell us..

For the record then: Merlin 7005 frame, Marzocchi Z1 fork, XTR groupset, Hope disc brakes/hubs on Mavic 317 rims, Azonic double skin riser + milled 6061 stem, X-Lite seatpost and various other goodies.

What you got?
42,467 views 198 replies
Reply #101 Top

The original Moulton bicycle was launched late in 1962, and was one of the few serious and successful attempts to challenge the conventional diamond frame. It dominated the 1962 Cycle Show, where it made its first public appearance. With its small (16 inch) wheels, suspension, unisex (step through) frame and integral luggage carrying facilities it was unlike anything that had appeared before.

http://www.moultoneers.net/ 

 

A 1960 prototype....2 years before Commercial production...
Reply #102 Top
America is NOT the the entire earth, Kona.

Reply #103 Top
I am 'still' talking about 'full-suspension'....it DID NOT originate in either the US, OR in Mountain bikes...
Reply #104 Top
full suspension is mountain bikes.. we invented that to. And china we are the world. nme one country that has more power and greater technology than us?

And by the way a full suspension bike is defined by more the one gear and more than a half inch travel....
Reply #106 Top
You would not catch me on that silly looking bike, Paul
Reply #107 Top
you wouldn't catch me on it either. It would make a good target for target pratice though....
Reply #108 Top
#102 by China - 8/14/2003 9:38:36 PM America is NOT the the entire earth, Kona.


......it's not !!!!!!!!!?????????




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Reply #109 Top
Kona you are a worker ant (that sells bikes to other ants) you are...nobody
Reply #110 Top
I am American and that is all that counts. As long as we continue to kick ass and take names later I will always be happy!

FYI I do a little more than sell bikes. I have three jobs.
Reply #111 Top
Yeah, well I'm an American too..Do I think America is better then any other country, Just cause I happened to be born here? NO! You're a young Ant Don't fret...Things will come clearer when you get older.
Reply #112 Top
Fact is we are the last superpower left. we could wipe other counties off the face of the earth if we wanted to. I am just to proud I guess.

Anyways back to bikes....
Reply #113 Top
^ is the future of the US

Can I move in with you. Paul?
Reply #114 Top

China....sure...a menage-a-trois sounds like fun...

Kona... 'full suspension' is defined by a non-rigid frame geometry at both ends of the bike, and has nothing to do with travel and/or gears....though that particular one was likely to have had an internal hub, probably 3 gears, and somewhat more than 1 inch of travel.

To be accurate, the first mountain bikes as such were specifically fixed frames, ie no suspension at all...

Some people read about history, others lived in it...

Reply #115 Top
To be accurate, the first mountain bikes as such were specifically fixed frames, ie no suspension at all...


ah but you still have to admit I was right about who invented and made the first mountain bike. Hurt to much to admit I am right for once?

MODERN Full Suspension refers to over 3 inches front and rear and at least 21 speeds....

Reply #116 Top

Kona..no, again I re-iterate....the number of gears has exactly nothing to do with what is, or is not a full-suspension bike, or a mountain bike.

Stop refering to Manufacturer's BS about what they 'think' a MTB is or was...it bears nothing in reality or in history.

The first coining of the phrase 'mountain bike' was/is most likely an American magazine reporter refering to a bike intended/used [not designed] for off-road cross-country travel.

What bugs the crap out of me, and other historians is the near-sighted's attempt/s to rewrite history, claiming the world was invented/created by one entity over another, usually patriotically-motivated.

Next time you look at a 'Mini' [as in the car] and wonder why/how it managed so many race victories in its time due to its handling capability/nimbleness...ask yourself who designed its suspension system....way back in the '60s....no, not Issigonis....he designed the car...it was Alex Moulton who was the 'wizz' behind suspension technologies....the current Abrams equivalent in the UK still uses his design...[that's a tank, BTW, not a bike].

Traditional [and modern] MTB suspension technology/design originated with motorbike concepts...and many were/are utterly unsuitable to man-powered systems but some designers have hung onto them desperately because they just know no better.

A reality-check [for you] is that I have designed and built full-suspension bikes, and therefore have practical knowledge of their viability.....nearly 40 years of experience specifically with dual-suspension bike systems....very probably longer than anyone even living in the US.

Again I repeat....the phrase/name 'MTB' is American.  The concept of full-suspension bicycle technology is English....Bradford-on-Avon to be precise, circa 1960.

Disk brakes?....Shimano made them in the late sixties [horrible all-steel things].

Hydraulic brakes?  German, though again I had a set by Shimano that predate BMX....would have been used on Dragsters.

The only thing that America can truly claim as leader of in cycling is billetting....good old Magic Motorcycle stuff has gotta be the most expensive junk ever created...made from unobtainium, it seems...[ya lose the plot when you're talking 1000 bucks for a pair of cranks, chainwheels extra]...

I'm quite happy to talk bikes and bike history with the next man, but please get past the stupid 'Made In The USA - Might Is Right' crap and talk sense....

Reply #118 Top
/me reads, shakes head, and thanks the Heavens that Kona0197 doesn't run my local bike shop.
Reply #119 Top


Dangeruss reads, shakes head, and thanks the Heavens that Kona0197 doesn't run my local bike shop.


why?
Reply #120 Top
I'm guessing because you have a rather myopic view of the world of bicycles and their technology which bodes ill for proper expertise...
Reply #121 Top
well then please elighten me Paul... what do I need to know about bicycles that I did not learn at bicycle school? Seriously show me my mistakes


Reply #122 Top

Practical knowledge, eg internal fillet-brazing, frame geometry and suspension methodology....an appreciation of Manganese-Molybdenum-steel [Reynolds 531] and knowledge of historical suspension design in Motorcycles...['springer forks']...and a home-made bike.

The only ready-made component of the frame was the 'unicrown' Chromolly fork, reversed, re-raked and with brazed-in suspension pivots to replace the drop-outs...

Reply #123 Top
Oh...and it has more than one Inch of travel...and 21 gears and drum-brakes [more immune to mud and damage than disks]...
Reply #124 Top
How come you didn't take the design to a manufacterer, no one else had bikes like that in the 1960's?

"Hey, what kinda bike is that?"

"It's a Martin, haven't you heard? "

You might of gotten paid.
Reply #125 Top
No...this one is about 7 years old...and it's based on another design.....