three_4me, Yes its unfortunate that so many people will condemn others for not having the exact same beliefs. And I probably suspect that if one has experiencing this behavior from others over and over you tend to get defensive on the subject.

I'm not saying this is you but I could see how some people who feel the same as you could misinterpet somones desire to communicate their beliefs with you as a codemnation on your beliefs. I guess it is all in their approach on how they express their thoughts and how those thoughts are received. Interpetation. Now thats an ugly word.

Of course we all sin. And its not up to us to decide who's sin is greater. A sin is a sin. I believe that if we try to better ourselves and help those who are in need that we are on the correct path.

Religion is equivalent to brainwashing on a global scale, and revolves around invoking fear in those who don't follow a set of rules which aren't applicable to a civilisation as advanced as ours. It doesn't matter what religion you follow as they all revolve around the same principle of 'do this my way, or you'll go to a bad place for eternity'.

I was brought up a Christian, and yet still somehow managed to see through what I believe to be an education flawed on so many levels. I have Christian friends, and while they claim themselves to be good Christians they continue to 'break the rules' on a daily basis. It is my experience that those who place their faith in a higher power forget to make decisions for themselves or take responsibility for their actions.

I'll never be converted to any religion, as I'm confident enough in myself not to need an imaginary friend to fall back on. You may consider that an offensive comment, but as a non-believer I consider all those people who talk about my lack of faith as being a bad thing to be equally offensive. There's nothing that gets my back up more than a person who considers it their duty to try and force their beliefs on another because they consider that person to be lacking somehow.

I've had many discussions on religion and the finer points of Christianity with my friends, and nothing they have ever said has made me the slightest bit unsure of my own beliefs. I find it quite amusing that you can have people who refuse to believe something without absolute tangible proof, and then go off to church to devote their time to something they have absolutely no proof exists.

At a stretch, I'd say there is a God. This God isn't a single omnipotent power who has control over every aspect of existence however, but rather the voice inside each and every one of us which guides us toward making the distiction between right and wrong. If you don't believe in yourself, then you're truly doomed to a bad place.

T-Man, Who decides what is sin though? I interpret Romans 14 and 1 Cor. 10 as Paul stating that one, you shouldn't do something that will cause another man to stumble and two, that what is wrong for me to do, may not be wrong for you and vice versa. I have been condemned a lot because I drink and I just don't get this. I've never been drunk in my entire life, I just have a drink or two and that's it. Now, person A may have a personal conviction about drinking, but does that give them the right to condemn person B because they don't have this same conviction.

If I do sound a little upset or defensive, that's not my intent, I just get very frustrated with the church and the things I've seen throughout the course of my life. Maybe it's because I'm a preacher's kid, who knows.

Excellent point by the way in stating that some people are probably not intentionally condemning, could just be poor communication. Perhaps I should try to discern this a little better and it will help decrease the level of bitterness I maintain.

late

grayhaze ... You know, having been raised in the church, I pretty much think you just stated it beautifully.

Go to church and you'll be happy. Go away from church and you'll be sad.

Am I bitter?

late

The Church of Jesus Christ and the 'Organised Church' are often entirely different things. Remember Jesus attitude to the then 'Church' leaders as it were. They had become too bound up in the rules and had lost site of the ruler (God).

From my experience I've yet to find a church that hasn't lost site of their God. Unfortunately (and this is probably only my experience) I have generally seen a building full of people where one man, not God, is doing the directing and asking for peoples funds. The people don't serve their *God* per se, but rather they serve their church, they give their money and they are happy.

I understand completely Jesus' frustration with the Church during that time, just as Paul was frustrated as seen through his letters and just as John was when writing Revelations. Well, maybe John wasn't frustrated, but he does speak directly to some problems in the church at Ephesus. Seems to be a pattern their that no solution has yet to be found.

Just my two cents.

late

Blessed are the Cheese Makers...

The Greeks shall inherit the earth...


Why is it I prefer Python's view of religion?....

oi! That's taking it off topic.
now run along or I shall say Ni!

God bless you anyway

No...it ain't 'off-topic'...I prefer Religion laced with humour.
The Doomsayers, etc...the fire and brimstone brigade are what ruins religion for the rest...

Religion laced with humor... Amen!

God has no tolerance for religion, mixed with humor or anything else. religion is about what man thinks, feels, and does to earn merit and feel good about himself. Christianity is a relationship wound around the fact that no man has merit, but God wanted him in eternity enough to go to great sacrificial length to get him there. religion is man-centered. Christianity is God-centered.
"For we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousnesses are like filthy rags in His sight." -Isaiah 64:6 So much for God's opinion of religion.

bkb steps off the soapbox, sprays the office air with rose flavored religion repellent, and ducks away to greener threads.

i agree with greyhaze on this he stated it perfect. I wont belive in most things without proff, and am not willing to devote myself to soemthing im being forced on by my peers. Religion is very closed minded.

I try to stay away from religion in all ways, and at my school i end up getting into arguements trying to defend myself, and when my "christian friends" try and defend themselves they give me the "Belive in this or go to H***" speel. Follow the good path and good things happen to you. We are all in control of our own lives, if we do something wrong we do it, no other "higher" power is going to come and save you.

/rant off

bkb where do i get some of that repellent seems like i could use some

it's right across the aisle from the incense.

- but it sounds like you're after something more heavy duty, SHC.

Dogma:
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.

This is where the problem lies with organized religion.

Each faith believes, there's is the ONLY way. They are right, the rest are wrong. It's funny how much the world has advanced and evolved, and yet in the area of religion it really hasn't evolved 'that' much. There is still lack of acceptance and respect for religions outside of the trad-christian. Far too many are trying to save other's from themselves, and the burning pits of H(*& rather than just trying to be the best person they can.

Doesn't matter who your God, Gods, or Goddess is as long as it leads to goodness... baby that is all that counts

/me walks in with pine tree around neck

found this in the automitve isle seems to work pretty well

I try to leave the "saving" up to Jesus.

I don't force my views on anyone. At least I try not to

I try to lead a good life which includes helping others in need. But I fall short in this area as I may not due bad things in my life but I don't go out of my way to help others as much as I should. Something I need to work on.

I can't fix other people. I can't condemn other people. The best that I can do is teach them about Jesus to the best of my abilities when asked or to teach by example.

I am not perfect and do not claim to be. Well, okay, sometimes I claim to be

and that's about all you can do T-Man cuz it's not us that does the saving it's God right?
I don't really talk much about my relationship w/ God cuz I'm afraid of misrepresenting him I get ashamed since I know my thoughts are never pure and I remember the one thing in the Bible I did happen to read of all things, was if you think something in your heart it's the same as doing it therefore I think I'm going to Hell! hehe

these days I struggle w/ my relationship w/ God not cuz what I do cuz I don't do much bad but I don't do much good either... but I think the guilt from this thread may make me cross the street and walk to Church Sunday (maybe)

/me can't believe this thread..........................Religion?.......Pffft!!

there I go thinking nasty thoughts again! hehe
j/k hello BoXXi

(well since T-Man went and made this thread for me I can say & think what I want in it right?) hehe

Do not say 'I follow the one true path of the Spirit', but rather, 'I have found the Spirit walking on my path, for the Spirit walks on all paths'. - Khalil Gibran -

For me, the above quote encompasses the truth behind God. IMVHO (and my firm belief), God will judge you on your actions, and on how you treat others, and not on how well or thoroughly you followed some particular text or dogma. To hate and belittle others is a greater form of blasphemy against God than any rejection of dogma.

So far in my life time here on Earth I realized two things.

>I can be wrong even though I feel I am right to the utmost degree.

>Religion and faith rarely get along with each other.


as you pointed out Bangkokboy, religion, I believe, by definition is a set of repeated acts to condition you into understanding something. So it is easy to get into going to church every Sunday, and yet it doesn't mean anything to you anymore because you do it out of religion; A repeated exercise.


Not good.


Also I find it fascinating that people will kill others for being in the wrong religion because they are going to Hell as if the person doing the killing will not or could not. Of course he is doing God's will by killing the non what ever.

Each religion is guilty of shying away from faith and going into hand guns and bats to do what God would do if She was here.

funny but since you have faith, don't you think She is here?

AND also wouldn't God, being the most powerful force in the Universe and in fact is the Universe, be able to do it Himself?

The Crusades? He could have don't that, did need you to kill people into submission

911? God's will? hardly. The infidels can be destroyed by God and really doesn't need your help, Thank You. You could help by fasting and praying to save your own soul. But that's just my opinion.


My Land as ordained by God? Give me a break. As God's child you own everything you see. All is 'your land'. Given to you to live a freely be on paid for by special Sponsorship. Do you share it. You better believe it. You want a special place for your 'religion; ', good luck (although you should not need it being that God has 'spoken' on your 'ordained land')




Lets read the Bible literally... ooops mistake. Not to be read literally. 1589 some odd pages about everything that has happened, will happen and is happening as well as the names of all the children and their personalities, as well as everything in the Universe is a tall order for 1600 pages.


Keep in mind that religion is a invented name. It was and is a way of other faiths recognizing each other. If I am a Christian, I a because the Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist etc or the atheist has to call me something.

Jesus never said, "Thau art Christianity therefore you are Christians." I belive there was some reference to the name Christian, but only because someone else was tiring to describe them.

I tried to get on this subject on the Good Vs. Evil thread. I have come to a conclusion that God is not the God I studied in Bible class. she is evolving extreme intelligence and everywhere. From the rock on the floor to the computer you type in. All matter was created from Her. Like a artist and a paining.

So if you believe you exist and others exist and the message board exists and electricity exists than whether you know it or not or believe, God exists. That is the proof. No magic. Like gravity or Math. Like air, or your own person. Think about it. Hell is the lack of God (not really fire and brimstone although that might be how it feels). In other word you are feeling the lack of your own existence. You yourself are slipping away out of the creative mind of God.

Now this is the funny part. God is the Universe. What happens here is a set of laws and rules we were created by and live with every day. You don't need faith to belive that. Faith is the idea that God is alive in the since of a thinking entity that you can meet and talk to. It is possible that God is a one cell universal entity much like an amoeba on the scale of ... really large. Doesn't 'think' as we know thinking is.

This is where Faith comes in. do you believe God is a thinking, feeling entity, or is God a one cell amoeba floating around through time and space with a ultimate end?

Either way, God exists.

why do I always try to stay out of this threats?

I read every word of what you said joetheblow, and I'm still not even the slightest bit closer to agreeing with you. Things exist, and therefore God must exist? Isn't that a rather simplistic and foolish way of thinking?

I decided that I'm going to create my own religion. It revolves around worshipping a being you can't see, hear or feel, but he's still there. His name is Teddy. I know that's his name because I read it in an old book somewhere.

Now the rules of this religion are simple. If you don't walk backwards and hop on one leg at least twice a day, then when you die you'll go to a place called Slugworld. In Slugworld, everyone is a slug and every so often it rains salt. It's never quite enough salt to kill you, but it'll hurt. Of course, nobody who has gone to Slugworld can verify what I'm telling you because they're slugs now, and they can't talk. Also, nobody knows where Slugworld is, so there's no way to prove it to you.

All isn't lost however. If you're faithful to Teddy, and continue the backwards hopping ritual, then when you die you'll go to a place called Happyworld. In Happyworld, everyone's happy. Good stuff happens. It's great. It's your reward for following the very important backwards hopping ritual. Yes. Oh, and nobody can verify the existence of Happyworld either, but it's there.

Now you may be wondering how I know all this. After all, I've already said that nobody comes back from Slugworld or Happyworld to confirm what I've said. Teddy made it that way for a reason. The way I know all this to be fact is that I read it in a book which was written a long time ago. So you see it must be true. All that nonsense about evolution and scientific fact was just made up by someone to belittle the memory of Teddy and to corrupt the minds of his devoted followers.

In the book I told you about, they spoke of a guy called Aafuss who came to Earth to preach the word of Teddy. Apparently he was the son of Teddy, but I'm still a little unclear on how that happened as Teddy isn't a tangible being. Anyway, the book says that Aafuss was really nice and caring, but at the end of the story he gets killed. I think they're making a movie of it with George Cloony as Aafuss.

Teddy be with you.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Those Christians amongst you probably find what I've just said to be extremely offensive. If you take a step back and look at your religion though, hopefully you'll realise that what I've said is pretty much exactly what Christians have been trying to get me to believe for my whole life.

The Bible is a story. Granted, it's a pretty good story for its time and it teaches a lot of important values which contribute toward a well-structured civilisation, but most of those values are so integral to being a human now that we don't need to be taught them in such an elaborate way, and it's still just a story. Let's just hope that 2000 years in the future we don't have legions of crazed fanatics running around preaching the word of J.K. Rowling and following the example of the great Harry Potter...

Not Teddy!!!

anyway... this is where the explaining gets a little hard.

Those things are not just things.
It doens't matter who made those things (table, chair, sofa) it still works under the laws of this universe. Therefore part of this universe.

Did you know we are made of stars? Almost every chemical or element on this planet including us can be derived from the sun this planet orbits. A sun that realise on the laws of this universe.

I think the word 'god' is loaded full of expectations and wants. What I am saying is that God is the laws and systems that govern this universe that we all are a part of.

Now that would mean that God is a thing. NOT a person. Not a place, yet a noun.

People who have faith believe God is a person who thinks and acts. But even if you do not have faith, in a sense God is still there, but is just a thing. Like your Teddy.

A rose by any other name... it is still a object with the same properties of matter called whatever you wish to.

Evolution?? Ha!

that is not in the Bible or the Karan or what ever else... or is it???


1600 so odd pages of what is believed to have all the universe explained in it. Yet humanbeing somehow understand it all?

Nope. 1000 years from now soebody will say, hey that is in the Bible. To bad we have to kill those who know it because in the Bibble it says so from the new trasnlation.