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Overdog worship

Overdog worship

One of the trends I've noticed in "Generation Y" that's different from Generation X and especially the baby boomers is that members of Generation Y seem to automatically want to side with the overdog.

Nothing exemplifies this attitude more than the stark attitude differences about Microsoft. If you polled the typical 18 year old techie about Microsoft, you would find that they overwhelming believe Microsoft's technologies are great, innovative, and solid. Ask Generation X and a lot of skepticism shows up. And by the time you get to the baby boomers you have to weed out the profanity used to describe it.

For us at Stardock, this really bites hard because we make software that extends the OS. As a result, any time Microsoft adds something that works similarly to what we make, the overdog worshippers begin dissing our software. Often times the similarities are almost identical. Yet, if you add the Microsoft logo to our stuff, it magically becomes better, faster, smaller, etc.

It's a rather surreal experience seeing young techies equating software written by Microsoft as small, fast, efficient, and relatively bug free. I actually don't have a negative view of Microsoft's coding abilities. I think they write software a bit better than average when compared to other mega corporations. I do believe that their internal developer culture is inadvertently harmful to third party innovation. That's because developers at Microsoft are allowed to work on, in their free time, additional software projects and from what I've seen, these often end up being "inspired" by third party software rather than original creations. But there's a big difference between Freeware written by Joe freeware author and someone at Microsoft. Anything released by Microsoft gains the air of legitimacy that no third party can get.

And that brings us back to the overdog worshipping. In Windows XP, the OS supports being "skinned". The OS comes with Windows XP style blue, silver, and green. But if you're willing to hack out the digital signing protection, you can download and copy into your system directory additional themes. The msstyles format is pretty decent overall. But it's not very powerful. It was made to make the Windows XP style and as long as you're willing to basically stick with themes that are pretty basic, you can have some variety.

Our company, by contrast, makes WindowBlinds. A program that extends Windows XP to natively support skinning too. We use pretty much the same APIs so we're just as "native". The difference is that our skin format is much more advanced since our program only exists to skin and wasn't designed around a particular design.

Yet on some of the techie sites that are so frequented by Generation Ys, you would think our software was buggy crap. Often times the alleged faults with it are exactly the same faults that exist with the included msstyles (because we use the same APIs). And none of these faults are what a normal person would consider significant.

But that's where the underdog worship really takes off. All manner of faults are imagined to exist for our software and the only thing these faults have in common is that we're not from Microsoft.

Let me give you some examples to show you just how far some of the overdog worshippers will go:

Claim: There are no good skins for WindowBlinds, they're all fat and useless.

Msstyles supports only very basic skins. WindowBlinds is a superset format, it can do that plus pretty much anything else you can imagine.

Let me show you some screenshots to show you what we've been doing for years:

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov99.jpg (November 1999)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-apr00.jpg (April 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july01.jpg (July 2001)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-july00.jpg (July 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-aug00.jpg (Aug 2000)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-nov02.jpg (Nov 2002)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-jan03.jpg (Jan 2003)

https://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/wb-mar03.jpg (Mar 2003)

WindowBlinds can do any visual style that msstyles can since it's a superset. And in fact, with going on 3000 skins for it, there are many many minimalistic skins available.

In short, this is a baseless claim. But you see, because msstyles is so limited in what it can do and because it's Microsoft, then these limitations are "good". You can bet that if the tables were reversed these same people would be claiming that our software was too limited.

Claim: WindowBlinds uses too much memory!

WindowBlinds uses around 2 megabytes less ram when a skin is applied than msstyles does. In short, this claim is simply made up. But we hear it all the time. It's so easy to tell that it's not true, XP has a task manager that shows how much memory is allocated.

Claim: WindowBlinds skins crash my apps!

WindowBlinds uses the same APIs as XP. It's no more likely to crash an app than msstyles is.

Msstyles, as a format, are like .BMP. They get the job done. WindowBlinds is a lot like .PNG files. PNG has advantages over .BMP such as alpha channel support, compression, etc. But if these two formats were remaed .MSIMG and .IMG or something, I bet you would have a lot of people claiming that .BMP is "Better".

The really sad thing is that these overdog worshippers don't realize that if they had their way, they'd likely be worse off. Needless to say, Microsoft doesn't support people hacking their system DLL so that they can patch in additional unsigned msstyle files. The next version of Windows, code-named Longhorn is already available via various "channels" in early beta. Guess what? .msstyles is no longer supported. Microsoft isn't in the skinning business. They make OSes and their top priority is producing a great OS. They have their hands full with compatibility on things that actually matter let alone worrying whether skins made by people who are hacking out their security features to work are going to be taken care of or not.

But imaging if the overdog worshippers got their way and we disappeared. We're the only realistic alternative. Do they really want to be at the mercy of Microsoft? What most people don't realize is that Microsoft's internal culture makes individual developers there very important. The only reason why Windows XP even has an msstyles "format" is because a couple of developers there decided to create a format rather than hard code it. Imagine if they leave? There's no business justification to continue supporting skinning. So if not in Longhorn, at some point, odds are they'd be out of luck. And bear in mind, it took years for WindowBlinds to get to where it is today.

This is just one story in a cosmic book of stories on how there's an increasing tendency for young techies to blindly worship whoever is dominant. An almost innate desire to be on the winning team seems to have gripped the young techie culture. I wonder how many of them have considered the long term implications of such over dog worship.
61,284 views 228 replies
Reply #201 Top
Give it a rest you two. This isn't a chat room, so don't treat it like one. Unless you've got something to say on the topic of the thread, take your idle chatter to MSN or ICQ.

And you wonder why people are sick of you...?
Reply #202 Top
goodnight, everyone. tommorrow is a different day and hopefully I will still be a citzen here.
Reply #204 Top
Come on boys, yo have the right to like the OS you want. I personnaly do not prefer Windows and I despise Microsoft, but I hate the most being alone on my little island, the way I was when I had a Mac (yes, i'm a former Mac user). Linux is heading in the right direction, but it still has a little ways to go in user friendliness. Also, Linux has the same problem Mac has as far as "alone on a little island" goes, until Wine gets to be easier to configure and more reliable anyway.

Again, you are entitled to your opinions, but what drives people crazy is when you say falsehoods. Like StyleXP can emulate OS X better, for example, when it's just totally false.
In your case, Kona, what doesn't work in your favour is that you keep contradicting yourself. When you realise you were wrong, you should say "Oh, sorry, I was misinformed. I apologise."
Reply #205 Top
Let me add I am sorry I turned this thread into a chat room. I got addicted to this message board because chat rooms tend to be filled with bar fights. I only hope I can be forgiven for my behavior. I behaved in a way that mostly the kind of people I despise in chat rooms behave. Again I am sorry.

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Reply #206 Top
I did say I was sorry. I was misinformed. I am now using WB.
Reply #207 Top
post 206 was for paxx. JJ be quiet!
Reply #209 Top
Well...I go watch the teev for a few hours and Peyton Place erupts here.

The issue with 'opinions' is those which are iterated and reiterated with no basis in reality.
This was/is evident in both opinions of the aleged failings of Litestep as explained by a novice, to how styleXP can imitate OSX and place the buttons on the top-left of the window...and telling that to a skinner who specifically uses WB BECAUSE it can put them there AND styleXP cannot....and in front of the person responsible for the company who created WB in the first place, who, you would think, would know a little more about it than most.

As to shuffles off this mortal coil or not, perhaps BoXXi can best determine, subject to future conduct [or not].

Now, if we, as admins had a dollar for every squeek of contrition or remorse that was forgotten/ignored in the very next thread, we'd all be retired and driving those Macs you all seem so fond of.
Let's see how long it all lasts...

BTW, Deviantart.com has the sort of community who will give as good as they get, but has admins, too, just like here...and many are members of both sites..
Reply #210 Top
#191 by kona0197 - 4/23/2003 5:34:25 AM
... The other admins might push the button after they log on in the morning. I know karmagirl and jafo and frogboy will be pissed.

hmm....You obviously don't know the admins here very well.

Reply #213 Top
Good times...Good times...feels like the good old days with Teddy.....
Reply #214 Top
Teddy!!!!
Reply #215 Top
Nah, Teddy was better - he posted in a world of his own

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Reply #217 Top
Kona, I know it's frustrating learning a new Os. All those little things you knew in Windows that now have to be learned on the Mac, but if you do have a new Mac and are getting frustrated, just sit down and learn to use it before giving it up. You might end up liking it... or maybe not.

Good luck!

Reply #218 Top
I'm a pretty cranky guy you know. And few things make me more cranky than people hijacking a discussion thread to turn it into some sort of infantile flame war.

Consider this your only warning JJ and Kona. I won't exile you, but we can take away posting priviledges.

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Reply #219 Top
Talking about the overdog, I have heard rumors around that MS is licensing a technology so that Word will be able to edit and save pdf format. Does anyone know if that is true or where there is more info on it?
Reply #220 Top
Karma, there are a couple of Word add-ons that integrate the pdf format into Word 10 (or whatever version XP is) and it might be probable that MS would build that into Office 11.
Just found one ...."Office Ready Pro 3".
Frogboy...cranky????? Not a bit!

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Reply #221 Top
KarmaGirl: Hrm, no, I hadn't heard that. Isn't PDF an open format now? I was thinking that it was because of all the libraries I have seen for both compiled languages and web scripting. There are tons of ways to make them out there. PHP has a nice PDF Lib. Whether it is open or not, I am sure the license would have enough built-in to make MS pay for the right to use it commercially.

I had heard, however, that the next version of Office that had been touted as totally XML capable will only be so if you buy the high-end versions. I had planned on migrating back to MS office, but if the regular peon version of Office doesn't support XML, then I don't guess I will.

**

I had a hand in hijacking the thread, too. My apologies.


There may be overdog worshipers out there, but I don't really see them often. I think at the root of almost every anti-Stardock pocket are the oldster, UI Luddites. It is their silly minions that I see more often than not.

We all remember people who were constantly derisive about shell themes that were too 'heavy', and that did their best to make their desktop look like a command line. For some reason most techie communities have at their l33t core a few of these "Things were great before the mouse" types, and people emulate them as much as possible. There have been types like this in our own community who laughed off WB as superfluous resource use, *while* they made themes for it.

Now that the standard shell is as stable as the shell replacements, they have even less reason to tinker. To someone like that, WB and such are still another running app they don't need, topped off by 3 year-old impressions of the software. They make mention of those impressions, and all the kids who want to be as cool as them carry the bias around, mouthing off and choosing anything else, even if the alternatives are worse. Msstyles doesn't need to be better, it just needs to be outside the scope of oldster derision.

You hear people come in here all the time spouting some fact about WB that hasn't been true in 2 or 3 years. They picked that up from some UI luddite, sitting with an @ symbol by his name in IRC. In short, I think this is less an Overdog thing, and more a social, pack mentality problem. People keep emulating the old 'alpha males' even though their points ceased to be valid with the advent of gigahertz-era processors and modern amounts of ram.

As to what to do about it, I dunno. If such people are still griping about the superiority of the command line and grimacing at their mouse, then they aren't gonna change their mind anytime soon. I still here stuff like that really often. One can only hope that in time they'll migrate to Linux for good...
Reply #222 Top
Microsoft are indeed introducing PDF editing in the next version of Word, and they claim that you can edit any PDF you download from the net while retaining all of the graphics and layout. Hopefully that doesn't include password protected PDFs which are protected as such to prevent people editing them.
Reply #223 Top
KarmaGirl...for your reading pleasure http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=10450&category=main

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Reply #224 Top
gray:surely MS, as stolid as they are about DRM, wouldn't make something that would do that. Actually, that is what that Russian developer was being put in jail for by Adobe, wasn't it? Anything that defeats commercial encryption is illegal now, right?
Reply #225 Top
http://www.planetpdf.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=1787

"...ElcomSoft Co. Ltd., Sklyarov's employer, still faces criminal charges of circumventing copyright protection in Adobe Systems' PDF-based eBooks."

dunno how that would effect plain PDFs, but supposedly anything made to defeat commercial encryption is a violation of the DMCA.