Isreal always makes it on the list somehow...

Speaking of Isreal...

what's up with that???

I know Isreal is a democracy and all, but why does the US support it so much anyway?? Especailly when Ariel Sharon is wrong?

jtb - to get a really good answer to that question, it's best to review world history centering around the (re)creation of the state of israel (if you can find a solid, unbiased historian). the allied countries had heard strong rumors about what might be happening to the Jews during the war, but when the allied armies were liberating the concentration camps the shock and horror of what can happen to a people who have no land of their own to be safe in went beyond belief. it was a very emotionally charged issue way back then and that hasn't changed. having helped form an international concensus on the need to create such a state, it's altogether normal to support its continued existence after it's created, even if you have philosophical fights with that state.
i readily admit that i've forgotten most of my detailed history around that turbulent epoch, and will say no more.

hmmm... I don't question the states existance... I questions some of the current governing actions of Sharon.

He got on my bad side many times after calling a operation a sucess even though 20 Palesinians died and were agnoliged as by standers or innocents. I also wonder about the use of bombs in densly populated areas...

I don't know... just seems like there could be more done.


Speaking of different cultures...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2080812/

Thumbs up... in a good way that is.

/me gives the OK sign and realizes that could mean something else too.

I am not anti-semitic, not by a long shot. I do, however, have doubts about the existence of the state of Israel, or at least how they are accomplishing it. I know the US has played a large part, and I don't excuse that. I'm not gonna really go into it here since it is such an emotionally charged topic to so many people, but I have a great deal of sympathy for the Palestinian people.

Their use of terror to make their case to the world is inexcusable, though, and I in no way feel that the acts are just. Actually, i think very little terror these days has anything to do with Palestinians or religion. Terrorism is a huge business, supporting millions of employees and billions in funds. Once you get an organization that big, the point becomes the organization. That's why Hamas, Hezbollah and the rest will never allow peace in the Middle East. They will murder anyone who could be successful at accomplishing it. Would be bad for business.

paxx: re: ANYMORE, you overlooked part of what I said:

"He started upgrading his military the *second* the gulf war was over, and there is *no* way to stop him, sanctions or not. What's he upgrading it for? He has seen how the US fights, and what it would take to win a war against them. He has allies that can make-to-order the equipment he needs."

China, Russia and the rest are poisted to strengthen him, sanctions or not. France has been whining about lifting sanctions for years. You may be right, at this moment, but I don't think you would be in a year or two.

I have stayed out of this up until now, because I am biased because of my Job. As some of the folks here already know I'm a U.S. Marine and because of that, my view is a little off of the norm. Now that being said, I'm sitting on my butt in southern Japan, wishing that I was with old friends in Saudi Arabia. Why you might ask, because I'm and Evil War monger... Nope, Because I think War is great..... Nope, Because of the People..... Yep. I'm not only referring to my fellow service men, but the people of Iraq. For those of you that have had no contact with those of us that serve, allow me to try and explain. First we all joined to serve our country but in the end we fight for those on our right and our left. Second, If you ask 99.9% of all service people of any free nation which they would rather be doing, shooting rounds down range or handing out food. I think that you will find that helping others would win every day of the week. It does not matter if it is helping woeman and children get clean drinking water, building a school so that the kids can learn, building a clinic to heal the sick, carrying food to the needy. And we do not care what color, creed, faith, height, race that people are helping wins out every time. If you listen and watch closely to the news reports about service members not having enough to eat, and wonder why, because there is a problem with the supply train.... not realy, because a young child just went running home with a couple of MRE's in his hands, and your getting warmer.

To each and every person who does not believe in this War, I will never even attempt to change your view, or to take away your right to protest this war. Why, because that is your right in a free country. All I ask is that you protest the war and Not the soldiers fighting it. There is a difference. Try to remember that there is not one country that is Free that the blood of soldiers was not spilled to make it that way. I made my choice 18 1/2 years ago to serve my country, that is my choice, just as some of you have made the choice to not serve.... That is your right. Now think of those in Iraq that are being told that if they do not get out and fight their children will face a bullet in the head. One childs life is worth 100 adults, for the children are all of our future.

Oh well that is my point of view, and feel free to flame me all you wish, but guess what, you have as much a chance of changing how I feel as I do of changing yours.

/me aka Chris

Bravo. Well said Chris. I support you and all the troops. Some people just don't see it that way. But hopefully I'll be in the Navy soon. I see it differently as well and no one can change my mind.

I don't think it is anti-semetic to desagree with Sharon's policies. I think if they could show the Palestinian people that they want to help them then maybe there would be some kind of movement.

and yes bakerstreet, the mititias likeHamas would do anything to stay in power. Its like the mafia, the neighborhood people love the gifts and the parties and the fireworks, but behind the scenes is rackaterring, volience and death.

As extreme as the Palestianian issue is, I see many similarities to poor minorities of the early 1940's to th 70's. Poor, hard to get educated, easier to do crime; outcast. Then is a crime is comitted where are the police? Who are the judges? You find yourself trying to make money to have something.. anything. Hamas pays those who kill themsevles. All of a sudden the family is honored, there is cash in the house and a chance to have something; at least for a little while.

What is even worst is that the militas do not have any direction other than to kill. What are there policies? How would they govern? What if someone disagrees? Do they blow themsevles up to make a point?


I do believe that Isreal though, should stop the settlements that everyone knows are being paid through the government.. While it is possible that the 1969 borders of Isreal is tnot enough, there has to be a limit of the expansion.


I think there is a way to peace, there has to be some pride sacraficed for it though... and you know men in power don't like that.

yes Grog, I know that. I have always known that.

about the food being given to the Iraqis.

"You know the world is going crazy when the best
rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy,
the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing
the US of arrogance, Germany doesn't want to go to
war, and the 3 most powerful men in America are named
'Bush', 'Dick', and 'Colon'"

- Chris Rock

hey paxx, I hope your still here. could you post the links of the news websites you use to get news?

Hopefully it will be in english.

thanks.

Respect to Grog!

Israel is a tacky situation. I'm not getting into that, if only because that would probably be seen as either anti-Americanism or anti-Semitism.

Oh hell, can't resist. Someting I picked up somewhere. Interesting theory, but feel free to disagree (it's merely a theory).

There's a lot of Messianistic Christianity in the US: the idea that Jesus will return sometime soon. But one of the prerequisites of this is that his return is linked in some way (can't recall what exactly) to the existence of the state of Israel. This is one of the reasons why it has US-backing.

Alright, I admit, the levels of "conspiracy theorism" are through the roof here.

Alright, you can shoot me now.

JTB: funny quote.

About the US support of Israel, here is a quote from Truman:
"I'm sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism: I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents."

On a side note, why do we call the anti-jews "anti-semitic"?
The word "semitic" refers to that people with a tan skin, native of the Middle-East. There are indeed some semitic jews (usually refered to as "Sephardic") but most jews are not semitic at all, but European ("referd to as "Ashkenazi"). While all arabs are semitic. Weird even that we would even ever refer to Arabs as anti-semitic.

That's why they blow themselves up. They're self-destructive by nature.

Okay, okay, bad crae.

Sounds like Semitic semantics to me......

No post in almost 4 hours?
All right, lets fix that.

An article by the British newspaper The Guardian reveals the US plan for the new Iraq.

"Under the plan, the government will consist of 23 ministries, each headed by an American. Every ministry will also have four Iraqi advisers appointed by the Americans, the Guardian has learned."

Read the whole article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,927055,00.html

Now now, isn't that interesting? Boy, do I ever hate being right sometimes...

Alright, just copy/paste this URL: www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,927055,00.html

right about what paxx? there has been no misunderstanding that there would be an interim government. You want that we should leave and let the Shiites kill the Sunni and the Kurds take and hold the oil fields and try to take back their Turkish territory? You don't hink the families of the 100,000 or so people the Sunnis killed in Basra won't be itchin to have a little fun?

Everybody there hates everybody else, and they all have RPGs and AK-47s. You think maybe the humane thing to do is to walk off and let them use them? Not a very peaceful suggestion. Oh, wait, i know, france should be in charge... lmao

That is the best example of what UN should be for.

But wait, the UN is meaningless now so the US should take its place, right?

UN? well, the main opposing members of the UN have huge military and oil deals with Saddam Hussein, I'm not sure they should be th e ones to set up the government. I'm sure he has a second cousin twice removed that France would just love to 'do lunch' with.

You have to understand, paxx, and you are not of the same mind as the European leaders who oppose the war. Not only do they not want war, they *desperately* don't want Saddam Hussein unseated. They like him, he makes lots of money for them. What he does to his neighbors or people is immaterial, because they are racist, money-grubbing people who feel that the Middle East should be their own personal sweatshop. It is like that part of town 'across the tracks', their ghetto.

Democracy in Iraq and elsewhere would be the worse thing that could happen for anti-US Europe. If the UN is in charge in Iraq, there is no hope for democracy there.

Frankly, I don't think there is any chance for democracy on that region. Even if the US made Iraq the 51st state of America.