Why do we have to start fights? Why cant people get along!! Why do we have to insult each other. Yeah, i was a little outraged that i was banned from downloading from this site until i pay, but you are being rediculous da_zman20. Your gangster mentallity will surely get in the way of rational thinking. Maybe I will pay to download more. This site is great, and i have been coming here for almost a year now. There are alot of great artists here, and i didnt mean to insult anyone.

I just copyed this from the faq section , it says the limit is 150 megs. So what is it 50 or 150?

Why can't I download more than 100MB of stuff from here?
Actually its 150MB at this time. But this can change at a later date. As WinCustomize has become more and more popular the number of downloads that occur daily has risen dramatically. This has caused a significant increase in Bandwidth costs for the site. And bandwidth usage continues to rise. In an attempt to recover some of this cost we began selling some merchandise on WinCustomize. But the amount of merchandise being sold still did not even come close to paying for the bandwidth costs let alone the rest of the operating costs that are incurred. Then we began offering Subscriptions with additional benefits as way for patrons of WinCustomize to help offset those costs even more. However, this still was not covering the bandwidth costs. So what do we do next? We either need to increase sales or decrease bandwidth? So the next step we tried was to do both by putting a cap on they amount of data you can download from WinCustomize for NON-PAYING visitors. If you have purchased "Any Product" from Stardock or WinCustomize or if you have purchased a WinCustomize Subscription you are provided with the benefit of Unlimited Downloads. We encourage people to try before they buy. That is why all Stardock Software is available as shareware. To try out all the software you will want to download skins from WinCustomize so we need to make downloads available for free. But we also need to place a limit on downloads to help control the Bandwidth costs. So how much should we allow. We ran some queries and decided that most people had downloaded less that 25MB's from WinCustomize. So realistically 25MB's is what most people would need to try out our software. But we did not want to push people away from WinCustomize either. So we decided to be generous and set the cap fairly high. We decided on 150MB. Once you have downloaded 150MB you are requested to purchase a subscription to WinCustomize or at least purchase the Product in which you are using the skins with.

good as long as we are on the same page, I hear everyday how people here are greedy and all of that maintaining a site is expensive, and this site is NOT about making money... no offense to you... I just hope you can understand that... and if you truly agree with me that this site is about the skinners and not the money then I hope you can accept my apology... I was heated about a guy in another post and then your post was the next I read... remember there are no pop-ups on this site whatsoever.... this site has to be paid for somehow... the cap makes sense, because if you buy any stardock program, you don't have it. and that's the point, everyone needs to contribute to the band width, or else the skinners will lose their safe haven that they have here... I didn't mean to be a jerk I apologize...

at the current moment it is 50... the reason being is that bandwidth is too low right now... to many people downloading... and they said why in another message board... I can't remember... but they said it would be low for a while... it will be 100 again soon

Thus far I have not purchased a subscription to WinCustomize because you must buy a two year subscription and I would feel a lot more comfortable with a one year plan. The reason I would prefer a one year plan is because two years is a life time when it comes to the internet. If this site goes down after I used only one year of service would I get a refund for the year I didn't use? I doubt that would happen.

I think the nasty response the person received that started this thread was uncalled for and will only encourage people like me that are on the fence about purchasing a subscription to leave! I have noticed this type of response more than once in the short time I have been coming here.

I have my flame suit on..so fire away!

did my last post notget recieved hmmm... I don't see it, oh well... basically what I said was it's all good... I didn't mean to be mean... but this is site doing farely well... and it's not aboutthe money... why haven't you bought a subscription yet if you don't mine me asking... it actually is one year that's what I bought it as... you get the second free... if you dont want the second year you can give it back at any time... I think it's worth it as do many others... and if you buy it, you aren't lining someoneelses pockets with money, but what you are doing is keeping the sight alive for another two years:)

Roy. People receive nasty responses when they post nasty messages. One can't expect one to receive respect when one refuses to show any. Now if someone was being respectful and showing some netiquette in their criticism of WinCustomize, and they were flamed, then I would agree. I'm not aware of an incident like that though.
As for the subscription being two years, one could look at it as da_zman20 stated, one could look at it as only $0.83 a month, or one could also look at Stardock itself. Considering that it's been in business for some time, I don't expect them to shut down anytime soon.

so many times i've herd this talk.blah blah blah
(One min. u say u want non now u say u want)

I had intended to stay out of this thread, but I wish to respond to a few things...........

#22 by Citizen iwontpay -
And how many p2p file sharing programs do you use on a regular basis?
... Exactly 0.

How many newsgroups do you visit each week?
... I visit Stardock newgroups occasionally, but I don't get your point on this one.

Im a firm believer that software should be free, and along with it its source code. Im anti-corporate, and damn proud.
... That's fine, you're entitled to your beliefs, but this site is ran by a 'for profit' corporation. You should look elsewhere for a site that agrees with you.
(You probably feel that groceries should be free as well.)

Im poor, im young, i dont have money to pay to download stuff from this site, and if i did have the money, i have better things to do with it like buy books on programming, take some college courses, learn to create what i normally download from this site. I dont do anything for a cash profite and i think its sad that this site wants everyone to pay now.
... I'm poor and I'm old, so what? I don't have the money for a new computer, but I don't write Dell, telling them what greedy bastards they are, because they want money for their products.

I go to work each day and pay my bills, i dont steal, and i dont expect to be handed anything in life.
... Really? You've already stated you don't do anything for profit, but you work to pay bills........
You don't expect to be handed anything in life, other than software, and the source code, and the bandwidth you would use here.

Please get a grip.

Randy: To quote Meatloaf... You took the words right out of my mouth.....
(but forget the next line of the song, big boy!)

Kosati gets it where do I go for the free groceries???

#34 by Koasati - 1/26/2003 12:21:51 PM

I agree with Koasati. You want things for free and yet you pay for school and pay bills. You pay for programing books. I guess you feel that there are some thing you should pay for and other you don't. Photoshop costs hundereds of dollars. But it should be free, right? Someone came up with an idea that so many profit of off, she woprks millions of hours programing photoshop, makinfg help files, having operaters help people with the program... but hey lets go to a p2p program and get it for free because it should be free anyway.

I think allot of things should be free; food, shelter, education.

that is what should be free. your being asked to give something back to the community of artist that work and give skins, people who set up the database and maintain it, and a help desk to fix programs and the site in general. does that sound free?


The funny thing is YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY!!! you could make comments, submit news, and help on the message board. BUT I guess that would take TOO MUCH OF your time.

but also remember this site doesn't exist to sell software... that isn't what this site is about.... it's all about the skinners... so why do people call wincustomize greedy??? because the bandwidth is barely enough, and for a non profit web site to stay in business is impossible, all money donated to this site in any way goes towards bandwidh and servers, not a single person at this site takes home a dollar in profit... the skin browsers sold all go towards adding bandwidth and content... but stardock does give the site a grant every month to stay operational, they pay for any one who doesn't buy the browser... why are you here if you don't have skinning software??? You must have something... all wait but their is more, if you haven't bought the software, and participate here... you are allowed to download as well.... more even... if you do nothing at all here... not even talk in the message boards... they still give 50megs of free downloads what more could you want??? who is greedy??? wincustoize gives all day long... how bout everyone else does their part and I just bought Toon XP, good job Pixtudio, and Mormegil I love you guys

The bandwidth limit has been limited to 50 megabytes. The original poster has downloaded more than 75 megabytes. Or put another way, they've downloaded a LOTTT of stuff.

The average systemetrix skin is 100K. There are only 176 such skins here (17.6 megs). So where did the other 60 megabytes of downloads come from? Wallpapers? That's a LOTTTT of wallpapers.

Someone has to pay for the bandwidth. It seems to me that at a certain point, the people using the bandwidth should contribute in some way.

I should also add that WinCustomize's policy is to EITHER find ways for people using all the bandwidth to help pay for the bandwidth THEY are using or to encourage them to...well go away.

I've never quite understood why someone who hasn't done anything at all other than leech bandwidth would consider it somehow a bad thing for the site if they went somewhere else.

Well said!!! Time for them to move on.

Remember though Frogboy, that guy might tell his friends about wincustomize, and then 10 of them come here and do contribute, so I think we should make people aware of what the site stands for, but if they really are just leeches then they probably don't have any friends anymore anyways... ... if they don't like the cap, they should leave, but if they know what the site is about and why they have to pay, they may be more willing to pay... just thought

iwontpay spewed some stuff I would like to address:

And how many p2p file sharing programs do you use on a regular basis?


None, I'm not stupid. I don't like viruses.


How many newsgroups do you visit each week?


A lot. DO I go to Microsoft and demand support? No. Again...not stupid.

I expect full service and support when I PAY FOR SOMETHING. Otherwise, I'm lucky if I get the damn thing to work, much less have a resource like WinCustomize.


Im a firm believer that software should be free, and along with it its source code. Im anti-corporate, and damn proud. Im poor, im young, i dont have money to pay to download stuff from this site, and if i did have the money, i have better things to do with it like buy books on programming, take some college courses, learn to create what i normally download from this site.


Did you really just pull out the old "anti-corporate" and "software should be free" chestnuts?

Your youth is more of an issue than you realize, son. How do you propose that the prorammers pay their bills? Are you suggesting that no one shoudl have a full-time job programming software of any kind? Have you REALLY thought about what it means to be paid for your hard work, or are you just reacting from some blind, uneducated warping of a socialist philosophy?


I dont do anything for a cash profite and i think its sad that this site wants everyone to pay now. I go to work each day and pay my bills, i dont steal, and i dont expect to be handed anything in life.


Yes, you do: You expect the resources, the PHYSICAL RESOURCES of this site, which is bigger than any other skinning site out there, to be handed to you FOR FREE. You said so yourself. You expect all of the Stardock products to be free. You expect EVERY piece of software to be handed to you for free...regardless of the fact that the programmers have to earn a living, and Stardock deserves to be compensated for the enormous expense of providing this site to you. For free.

You're a leech, and it seems like you're a leech on more than just this site.

You mentioned a job. Do you work for free? If not, why not? DO you expect to be paid fairly for the work you do? You need to think about your statements here and how they apply in the real world before you get all high and mighty.

Bottom line, in the real world: Stardock programs software. They deserve to be paid. Stardock provides this site, and it costs money to provide servers and bandwidth. They deserve to be paid for that. If you can't understand that, then get ready for a harsh, harsh lesson out in the real world, kiddo.

Sheesh. All this nice stuff here is cool, but (except for the terminally addicted, lol) they are all luxuries. Not necessary to sustain life or your PC. People download tons of stuff, don't contribute to the site by producing work or spending $20 on a product or a two year subscription and then act like WC is taking food out of their mouths or evicting them from their homes when they can't download more skins or walls. It's just fun stuff, additional luxuries, not life or death or even heat on a cold winter's day. Contribute in some fashion to the site or just move along to other sites or do without.

No one is inherently entitled to download as much as one wants for free, why is it expected or demanded? As much as one can get without any effort or funds contributed, consider it a gift, not a right. It's like continually going to a lunch time potluck buffet and eating all you can eat day after day and then being PO'ed because the host says, "Hey, can you at least bring a dish since you eat here all the time?"

The subscription model or fees for services is being adopted by more web sites of different types to offset costs of operation. Someone somewhere has to pay the bills. Ads simply don't do it for a number of reasons. The skinners and artists contribute their work, Stardock provides funds for operations and only recently, with higher demand on the site resources has the subscription option with premium access been introduced. Those funds go to site ops and hardware improvements.

To the extent that someone has downloaded as much as they can without contributing to the site in some fashion, the appropriate response should be "Thank you." And go on to another site if you don't wish or can't contribute to this one.

koasati, You summed this troll and his clones up perfectly.
frogboy, I might disagree with you in some ways but I'm 110% behind you on this and related matters.
iwontpay, No such thing as a free lunch. >
As you are such a great believer in 'everything should be free' why are you dicking about with school and education?
Just rock off and join a group who devote their time and effort to helping the less fortunate of the world.
Africa can always use help, or perhaps you would prefer to wear a frock and become a Trappist(?) Monk???
Better still, GO AWAY! >
Bloody troll!

The internet is a place to express your opinion and then be flamed for it. I understand this. The only reason i come to this site is because i wanted to get sysmetrix skins. I dont use any other products like windowblinds. I personally dont care for most of these products. When you download sysmetrix, it says go to wincustomize for skins. It doesnt say, go to wincustomize, pay to download skins, and watch about expressing your opinion or you will be put down. Aside from some of the people here, this site is great. I think i may pay, i think i may also use some other products that this site supports someday.

$20. A carton of cig's. 3 or 4 six packs. 1 cheap dinner out. $20 doesn't go far. So $20 for 2 years is a bargin.

WOM, you are such a cheap date!

Justin: Im a firm believer that software should be free, and along with it its source code. Im anti-corporate, and damn proud. Im poor, im young, i dont have money to pay to download stuff from this site, and if i did have the money, i have better things to do with it like buy books on programming, take some college courses, learn to create what i normally download from this site.

Yes, I would love software to be free. And why not those books on programming you're buying? and those college courses, they should definately be free. Heck, everything should be free! Everybody should work for free and get everything for free. Why do we really need money for? Everybody's hardwork is worth as much as his neighbour's.
A World without money, or without greed, or violence. A world of Peace, a world where everybody respects everybody. A World where nobody tries to take more than he needs, a World where theft and crime don't exist. Yes, that would be nice.

But I don't think the human species is quite there yet. Maybe in a millenium or two.

Angela, That was for him. It costs me a lot more than that. We don't drink so the last dinner only cost me $75 for the wife and I.