Cygng - while I don't like Bush and disagree with Mr. Beesley, you're remarks are 1) rude, 2) borderline rascist and 3) ignore the fact he has a right to his opinion and to express it. Attacking someone, calling them a fascist and a redneck when you don't even know them is wrong, period.

Nader is not being ignored because people are scared of him, he is being ignored because he has no conceivable chance of winning. Same for the Libertarians.

lilstarfish - We were dragged into the war in Afghanistan? I think 9/11 was a pretty good reason to go. I don't support the war in Iraq because it was based on false assumptions and intellegence, but in Afghanistan there can be no disputing that Al-queda and the Taliban were a threat to us.

Vote for who you believe in - JUST VOTE!!!!

Ah well, the thread has been "godwined" back at post #12 so that's it, game over...move on everybody.

"We were dragged into the war in Afghanistan? I think 9/11 was a pretty good reason to go."

Really?

You seem to have missed the fact that no evidence has ever been presented
showing that "al-Qaeda"("the base"(hehe)) was even involved in 9/11. It has been a great lie
that has been pandered from the get go by the Bush administration and by
the big media and you have just repeated it.

Why?

Here comes some educational reading for people interested in learning
more about what really went down on 9/11

On August 31, Ruppert Publicly Calls out Cheney as Grand Master Organizer of 9-11 events
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/296290.shtml


TRIPOD II AND FEMA
Lack of NORAD Response on 9/11 Explained
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/060704_tripod_fema.html


Wargames Were Cover For the Operational Execution of 9/11
http://www.infowars.com/print/Sept11/wargames_cover.htm


The Making of the Terror Myth

"A major new BBC TV documentary claims that the [..terrorist] threat is a politically driven fantasy - and al-Qaida a dark illusion. Andy Beckett reports"

"Curtis points out that al-Qaida did not even have a name until early 2001, when the American government decided to prosecute Bin Laden in his absence and had to use anti-Mafia laws that required the existence of a named criminal organisation."

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/299970.shtml


Related reading

OPERATION NORTHWOODS
U.S. planned fake terror attacks on citizens
to create support for Cuban war
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/08/296044.shtml


America's Pipe Dream
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,579174,00.html


Afghan Oil Pipeline before Congress 1998
http://www.progressiveaustin.org/afoilpip.htm
"From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company."
- Mr. John J. Maresca, vice-president of international relations, Unocal Corporation Feb 12, 1998

Hehehe


Central Asia gas deal signed
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2016340.stm

"The US company Unocal led a consortium in the 1990s which undertook feasibility studies, but it pulled out of the project in 1998.

There are now hopes the plan can be revived following the removal of the Taleban rulers in Afghanistan, and the restoration of a measure of stability to the country."


It is all about OIL

Did you know that:

a.. USA supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years,
and viewed them as freedom fighters against the
Russians?


b.. As late as 1998, the US was paying the salary of
every single
Taliban official in Afghanistan?


c.. There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea, but
you need a
pipeline through Afghanistan to get that out?


d.. UNOCAL, a giant oil conglomerate, wanted to build
a 1000 mile pipeline from the Caspian Sea through
Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea?


e.. UNOCAL spend $ 10,000,000,000 on geological
studies for the pipeline construction, and courted the
Taliban for their support in allowing the construction
to begin?


f.. All leading Taliban officials were in Texas
negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998?


g.. In 1999, Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL
out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to
a company in Argentina?


h.. John Maresca, VP of UNOCAL testified before
Congress and said no pipeline should be set until the
Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was
established?


i.. After 1999, the Taliban became the most evil
people in the world


j.. In 2001, Bush declares war against Afghanistan,
though not a single Afghani was involved in the plan
"hijacking"?


k.. Bush blamed Bin Laden, but did not offer any
proof, saying it was confidential?


l.. Talibans offered to hand over Bin Laden if there
was proof, but bush bombed Afghanistan instead?


m.. We now have a new government in Afghanistan, which
is friendlier?


n.. That the leader of the new government is one
gentleman called hamid Karzai, who formerly worked
for UNOCAL?


o.. Bush appoints a special envoy (Lakhdar Ibrahimi)
to represent the US to deal with the new government.
This special envoy was formerly chief consultant to
UNOCAL?


p.. The US government quietly announces in January
2002 that it will support the Trans-Afghan pipeline
construction?


q.. President Musharraf and Hamid Karzai announce
agreement in February 2002 to build proposed gas
pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan through
Afghanistan?


.......And you thought we were fighting terrorism
here, didn't you?

It is all about OIL................

Beesley - "Electing Kerry will hurt the small businesses big time!"

How's that work?

Small businesses have suffered the most under Bush's fiscal irresponsibility. And if we continue this deficit spending, it will only get worse. Ask any economist (except those on the Bush payroll) what happens when you have a huge deficit and national debt... It reduces saving within the population, curbs investments, and eventually leads to a higher rate of inflation which has a drastic effect on real interest rates (as opposed to nominal rates).

Kerry wants to begin by reducing the deficit and paying off the debt (which has historically proven time and again to be the best way to spur the economy as well as technological growth - see the Clinton years for the most recent example).

But he also wants to lower the corporate tax rate by 5%. That will provide way, way more relief to most small businesses than Bush's income tax cut ever did.

Get your facts straight before you start quoting Republican spin.

See what I told you, this vote turned this site into another place for
political debate. Is that what we want ?

Actually Nannok, the US is days away from a very important election - and the whole worlds eyes are them - it's therefore understandable that news items like this would generate the heat they have.

After all we're talking about American citizens having to choose between 2 evils, lets hope you choose the lesser (whichever that turns out to be - and THAT is by no means a cut-and-dried issue...as this thread amply demontrates).

I agree with Nannok completely! This type of political crap has no place in a site dedicated to changing the looks of Windows, ie skinning.
This thread should be stopped.

The site has not been "turned into another place for political debate". This thread has. And so what? If you don't want to read it, don't click the link to read it. No-one's forcing you to.

This is a good thread, because it gives people the option to discuss their opinions in (mostly) intelligent company.

The poll results obviously indicate the dead-even split between Kerry and Bush.

Why can't people just ignore things if they aren't interested?

I can't remember the last time there was anything political in a poll here. You don't have to vote, you don't have to read this thread, you don't have to post in this thread.

I kinda thought that was what democracy was all about

Well, if I could vote on these US elections, I would choose Kerry. I think he is more concerned about the economical crisis on the US and that will get worse if the deficit issue is not managed. An economical crisis there will reflect almost everywhere.
Besides, the way Bush is going we'll soon see another World War. Bombs and no talk lead to more bombs. Every country is rethinking its peace strategy today and will probably invest in more weapons if Bush is reelected. Noone trusts Americans anymore, after they invaded a country without UN approval. By the way, the UN was created by the US to prevent this kind of action.
I'm not anti-american at all. But more of the same Bush policy will drag everybody to war. And I live in Brazil, which has no special worries on US foreign policy in what concerns war.

re:

"But of those who are not American:
21% prefer Bush
79% prefer Kerry"

THAT is the point. To prefer Kerry is UNAMERICAN and is another great reason why idiots outside the US aren't aloud to vote.

It's not the 'idiots' outside the US that can't spell simple words like "allowed". Idiot.

Kerry is a mother Fucken Idiot,ohyeah I agree with whosyadaddy.Your suchan asshole Eroticus Prime.

By theway iseveryonelegallyvoting?