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Blog: ObjectDock, pizza, and DesktopX 2.2

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Blog: ObjectDock, pizza, and DesktopX 2.2

from WinCustomize Forums

I've been having a ball with ObjectDock Plus. I've got 4 different docks going on my desktop but you can barely tell because I have itty bitty tabs  on 3 of them.  The 4th dock I don't have docked to an edge but instead I have it activate when I put my mouse to the very bottom. The biggest glitch I've run into with it is that I can't drag and drop links to a dock (well I can but they don't work).  What I want to do is have my "favorite" websites as a series of tiny tabs over on the left edge of my screen.  I mostly use Keyboard LaunchPad for getting around my sites (Ctrl-Alt-1 for WinCustomize, 2 for Joeuser.com, 3 for Stardock, 4 for Neowin, and so forth).  But what I want to use the docks for is more "temporary" favorite websites. Ones that I want to check out later when I have more time but know I'll forget but don't want to have permanently in my "favorites" list.

BTW, if you've got a particularly clever ObjectDock Plus setup, take a screenshot and upload it and I'll try to feature some of them in my next WC blog. 

One thing that ObjectDock Plus's availability has brought forward is an issue that affects most shareware developers and that is pricing.  Go to a shareware conference or just hang out with other shareware authors and the topic is sure to come up: Why does the same guy who happily pays $8 to watch "White Chicks" and spend $4 on pop corn or $18 on two pizzas turn around and bitch about paying $15 to $20 for a software product that took an immense amount of effort to create that they'll be able to make use of for years?

What bugged me the most was the idea that because we have had ObjectDock (freeware) available that we somehow have no right to make a plus version.  That somehow we're the greedy ones for wanting to be compensated for years of effort.  Rather than being thankful that we make a free program like ObjectDock used by hundreds of thousands of people, one that we continue to update for free, we get guff for putting out a Plus version.

There were also the people who felt ObjectDock should be part of Object Desktop. I could at least, philosophically, understand where they were coming from. I'm not sure at what point Object Desktop came to equal "All of Stardock's stuff in a single package for $50".  But my view is, anyone who's paid us $50 for Object Desktop is a customer and we're going to listen to their view point a lot more seriously than the kid who's never contributed anything back but feels entitled to call us greedy for making ObjectDock Plus. 

The reason ObjectDock Plus isn't part of Object Desktop is very straight forward: Economics.   Object Desktop has something like a dozen and a half programs in it. For $50. And most of these programs are really quite powerful.. I could go on for hours about how DesktopX should be a $100 product on its own given the things it can do for corporations but we target power users and consumers instead so we have to price it appropriately.  The bottom line is that Object Desktop is a really really good deal.  And it's such a good deal that it's very tough to sustain it even as is at the price it is. 

Personally, and correct me if I'm mistaken, I think half the coolness of Object Desktop is that many of the components get very frequent updates.  If you bought Object Desktop in say 1999, the main components in it have continually been updated in it year after year after year with more components being added over time.  I don't want to name specific products but I suggest checking out other desktop enhancement programs that have come out during that time and note how often they've been updated (or heck, when the last time they were updated).  Meanwhile, we've been cranking on DesktopX, WindowBlinds, WindowFX, IconPackager, and other pieces on a regular basis year after year after year. Heck, wait till you see ObjectBar 2.  And we're working on some other cool new things too. Point being, this coolness is only possible as long as Object Desktop is economically viable. It's not like we're driving around in Porsches or something. Things that don't remain viable end up fading away.

I think at the end of the day the question is simply are people glad we made ObjectDock Plus? Based on the reaction we're seeing, we think yes. If it hadn't been released the way it is, it would never have been made.

Speaking of new stuff, later this Fall we hope to finally come out with the beta of ThinkDesk. This is an entirely new suite of products. Where Object Desktop is about extending your desktop, ThinkDesk is about managing your information.  Pricing will be the same as Object Desktop (though unlike Object Desktop the price will probably go up once it leaves beta). It'll be XP only and we'll be focusing a lot of energy on .NET features.

Meanwhile in Italy, UK, and US where the distributed DesktopX team works, version 2.2 is nearly done.  I think a new beta of it showed up on Object Desktop tonight along with IconX which is now separate (but if you have both installed, the IconX tab will show up in DesktopX). We learned from that WinCustomize poll that lots of people had no idea what IconX was. That needs to change as it's (in my biased opinion) one of the coolest programs on Windows.

So that's all for now. Gotta re-setup my crashed laptop. It's running plain Luna right now! Eeew!

34,153 views 73 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well Frogoboy, in this article/blog you are talking about 'tabs' and opening websites. From the screenshot I see it has a tab for apps and other stuff. So why wasn't this or something similar released as an update to TabLaunchPad ? I don't care that much about $15. I just renewed my ODNT subscription, I have Wincustomize subscription that I don't really use for anything(don't like the Skinbrowser that much), so I wouldn't mind spending the money for OD+. But I really feel like this should have been included in the ODNT. Not because 'everything Stardock makes must be included', but because it looks like what an update for TabLaunchPad should have been.
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Tab Launchpad alread lets you put URLs in a tab.


Cod: Yearly update fee on Object Desktop is $35.


Let's look at 2003:


New apps:
+ IconDeveloper
+ Keyboard LaunchPad


Major New Versions:
+ WindowBlinds 4
+ DesktopX 2

Updates to pretty much every other component (point updates).


Then there's 2004:

New Programs:
+ RightClick (Sept)
+ Theme Manager
+ IconX (this came from DesktopX 2.x originally)


Major New Version:
+ IconPackager 3
+ DesktopX 2.1/2.2 (they could have been whole number releases)
+ ObjectBar 2
+ Stardock Central 2

Plus updates to pretty much every other components in various levels.


Doesn't that seem like quite a bit of activity? And these aren't trivial revisions. Take a look at other "major" versions of popular shareware programs.  What is the difference between major versions of other programs? And yet they typically cost more on their own than Object Desktop on its own.


Anyway, I'm not trying to "Rant". I think that people who buy our software have a right to ask tough questions of the developers. They're the customers and I think we have a responsibility to answer as clearly and truthfully as possible.

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well the question was why OD+ wasn't included in ODNT as it looks like an update to TabLaunchPad. Not if you can put URLs in a tab. Which is my point, these apps look really similar, except that OD+ looks nicer and you can do more with it than with TabLaunchPad. Obviously if I din't think ODNT is not a good value I wouldn't buy it. But I'd rather see a good update to TabLaunchPad, than for Stardock to release a new product that looks like the update I would be looking for in the product I already paid for.
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Froggy,

Someone above said there should be different levels of ODNT and that my friend is an excellent Idea. I would have no problem dropping another 5-10 bucks a year to get the extra programs. Then for those who want the standard SD suite (known set of appps with no additions) leave the price the same. Look at it this way you get free beta and alpha tester like with ODNT. And also you'll have a way of enticing subscribers to move up a level. Also we won't ever have this conversation again.

BTW what is the subscriber retention rate? I know that I seem to have been around foever......
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Tast: I think we totally agree on that concept and we've been mulling it over for three years now.


The problem is the confusion involved.  On OS/2 we mistakenly made an Object Desktop Pro which was more expensive but then nobody wanted the "regular" version anymore.  So we ended up with a lot of lost sales.


What I was thinking we should do is have a Power User bundle where we just throw in as much as we can.  I was thinking it would make sense to wait until ThinkDesk beta comes out (since that's going to be $50 also) and then we can let users take advantage of upgrade pricing and such.

Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Regarding users who subscribe and re-subscribe the next year. Because of the complexity, we've only been tracking this back until 2002.

2002: 36.5%
2003: 36.8%
2004: 37.5%*

(* measurement is based on first 6 months).

So retention rate has remained basically steady with a slight increase over time. To put it in perspective industry norm on software subscription rates is supposedly around 15%.

Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
BTW, Tast, did you start with the OS/2 version?
Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
No I started when DX was in Alpha....
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
BTW

looks like some great retention rates

Also the power user bundle sounds like a great Idea.

Another reason I like ODNT is Stardock central, I love being able to start up one app and know if my software has been updated, that's one reason I don't like the not attached apps. even though they show up in SDC I always seem to mess them up somehow?
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If there is a OBar2 comming and a CC2 based on Obar2 technology, can we expect a new TLP based on OD+ technology?
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So much talking... Any news about the next update ?
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Just my short input. Since I am myself a software developer, and one of the kinds of people that like to pack my machine with lots of whiz-bang stuff, I don't mind at all paying. Of course my personal budget for PC software is higher than most people's budget. I have a current subscription to Object Desktop, and purchased CursorXP and ObjectBar Plusplus of course lots of stuff from other vendors. I just bought File-Ex for example. To people who bitch about paying for software, well, all I can say is, ignore them.
Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
One other "strategy" idea to help Stardock's margins: sell a few of your apps as 'business productivity' programs. With some minor programming work, ObjectDock+ could be made to have an interface that makes it a little easier for the average computer user to add tabs, programs, URL's, etc. Several other programs are handy in the same way and with minor adaptation

Business users are far more likely to spend money on software...
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Froggy it would be nice to see a technology preview of these new versions..
Reply #65 from WinCustomize Forums Top
kickva . Easier than now ? How that ?
Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Easier than now:

Auto-fill a dock or a tab on a dock with productivity apps detected on the computer, found through a scan of c:\program files for executables of known applications. Or at least autoscan and ID the apps and put them in a drop down box. Don't make the average user dig around the file system.

Further, it is currently a bit of extra work in the file system to put new docklets or icons into the folders where ObjectDock will recognize them.

If I had to venture a guess, I would say that people don't renew subscriptions with Stardock for 2 main reasons: 1) they didn't use the tools much for whatever reason or 2) they *couldn't* use the tools much because of limited knowledge. How much fun is WindowBlinds for skinning if you can't figure out how to take a downloaded skin and make it active?

There is a need to balance usability features with the amount of time spent programming. There is also the danger of dumbing down the interface so far that advanced users get disgusted. But Stardock has some very clever programmers who I think wouldn't take long at all to make a few adjustments that made their software more accessible.

One last suggestion: why not pay for WindowBlinds, then if you want you can get program updates and an integrated browser to get more skins from the Internet? That way, people get a year's worth of program + full skin opportunities (auto-unzip should be done for the user, too absolutely no extra effort should be required other than saying 'I want that skin' and 'make that skin active'). Those who pay for a package combo could use the browser from any of the individual programs or from a master browser (less desirable) and download sets of skins that apply to all Stardock apps they have paid for.

Anyway, this is the sort of marginally useful drivel you should expect from someone like myself with a C.S. degree and 5 years of general management to twist my thinking.
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Now let me start off by saying that I have been a subscriber to ODNT for many years and purchased WB before that. I also have bought CursorXP and OD+ so I think that qualifies me as a customer. Anyway...

"And it probably never will remove the bars from Mizlla and Lotus Notes as that feature will never be 100% because different apps implement their menus differently and very very few people use that particular feature."

This doesn't instill confidence in me. I use this feature quite a bit. Are you going to attempt to improve on this feature? How about with programs that are on ODNT? There are some like skinstudio that while they get their menubars hidden they don't show up in the menubar at top. Should we have a poll as to who uses the menubar feature in Objectbar?

Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
When a WB skin is downloaded your browser should ask if you want to open it and if so WBload will unzip and install the skin and even give you a popup asking if you would like to apply the skin..

Stardock has improved the accessability of the app by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years.
Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've purchased Object Desktop for OS/2, Object Desktop 2000, subscription updates each year, Cursor XP Plus, Toon XP suite, Orion Icons and a Object Desktop 2004 CD release. I understand where some people may think that Stardock is pushing it by looking to make a few extra bucks on ObjectDock Plus. I haven't tried it (yet) and will probably give it a look, but I don't feel like I'm missing a lot yet.

There were a lot of programs that were floated out as part of OD over the past few years and many of them haven't been updated since the day they were released. If getting a few extra bucks makes it possible for Stardock to keep on producing excellent products, I guess it's OK with me. I don't have to have EVERYTHING they put out...
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I been reading this for awhile so I thought I might put my two cents into it.

Currently I'm an object desktop subscriber, 2nd year in a row, but I don't plan to renew in october when my subscrition is up (more on this below).

I'm also a wincustomize subscriber. Not that I use the skin browser (it's not very intuitive and I like the layout of the website much better). And the two suites that come with the wincustomize subscritpion are just hideous (no offense to the artists, I'm sure they put a great deal of effort into them, they're just not my taste). I am however glad to support wincustomize and all their efforts.

I am a developer myself so I understand where you're coming from stating that it is economically unsound for you to put everythign into object desktop. Where the problem lies is in the marketing. From the website and general info around stardock, object desktop looks like it is "everything" from stardock, so buying that will give you give you everything from stardock for the next year. I know that isn't true, but thats the impression the average user gets when the first come across stardocks products.

Personally I could care less if object dock is sold as a separate program. I tried it when the first beta came out, it ran like crap, and I found it pretty useless and I haven't used it since. Even the new features aren't enought to entice me to buy an app like that I would never use it.

On another point regrading the fact that the tab launch pad and control center should have been upgraded before object dock was made. I'm going to have to agree with that. As a developer, I've written applications that were very good at there time, but become almost obsolete when a new technology comes out (ie microsoft .net for example). The corporation I work decided it was better to update these programs, rewriting a majority of the code to use the new technology and even add a few more features. This is very boring and tedious for a developer sometimes things aren't fun, but you have to do it to maintain your customer base. It is my personal opinion that customer satisfaction takes priority over new customers customer satisfaction is the only way in which a subscription based model can possibly work.

Over the past two years that I've subscribed to object desktop (I'm canadian so after taxes and currency conversion it cost be about $90 for the first year, $70 for the renewal), I haven't been impressed with it enough to keep using it. Most of the big things that happened the past two years involved desktop X, a program I find too slow, and not very practical to use. It continues with the trend away from useful software to "glitter" software that I have noticed stardock following. Stardock seems to believe that object desktop users actually use every program in the suite...I only bought it for windows blinds, icon packager, and object bar (which was a bit of a dissapointment seeing as it hasn't been updated...hoping my subscriptoin won't expire before version 2 comes out it alone isn't enought to make me re-subscribe). This bothered me quite so when I first got object desktop because I assumed that all programs would be updated on a regular basis, hence the subscription model.


Anyways, If you've actually gone ahead and read all this, I thank you for your time.

-Mike
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"Why does the same guy who happily pays $8 to watch "White Chicks" and spend $4 on pop corn or $18 on two pizzas turn around and bitch about paying $15 to $20 for a software product that took an immense amount of effort to create that they'll be able to make use of for years?"

Oh I don't know, maybe cause the guy had bought OD, paid for subscriptions for the past 5 years or so, subscribed to WC, then renewed for another couple of years, bought the "premium" suites, icons, CursorXP and all of a sudden got tired of throwing money out on yet another thing. Just a guess. GraveDigger pretty much summed up it up beforehand, but I'm feeling just the same, you're pushing it.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I agree with mack those of us that have been faithfull to stardock are feeling squeezed. We renew are subscription every year and are happy to alpha and beta test your software and report the bugs ( note: We don't fuss about them like most others would, we just report them) and applaud you when the bugs are fixed.

Stardock does update most of the ODNT software regularly but it's normally DX, Skinstudio, WB and IP, the ones that draw people to Stardock to begin with or in skinstudio's case keeps the skins for WB coming down the pike. The others such as TLP, OE, CC, spring folder and tree view haven't had major updates for quite some time.

Don't get me wrong here I would like to see DX straightened out and any new update to Skinstudio makes my life easier but, currently there are more than enough features in WB and IP does the same job for me that it has done for years, though the new builds do change more icons which is nice.

I guess it comes down to wanting to have the older proggies updated and being tired of feeling squeezed for every penny that you can get out of us, I mean isn't the reup for the ODNT subscription enough? Stardock gets more of my money than Microsoft or my antivirus provider per year and they give me updates on a regular basis sometimes even daily.

Think about it Brad, WB has goten to the point that myself a skinner with several years experience doesn't have time to create new skins because of the complexity of the newest features, such as animations. DX has gotten way past my abilites and jeez I was one of the pioneers with it. Maybe I should have worked harder to keep up but like most people I don't have the time to dig up all the information. ( full time school, full time job, husband and Dad).

The rest of the apps are lagging. Give me a reason besides IconX, DX and WB that I should renew my subscription, Make it compelling like it used to be. DX was the reason I upgraded from just WB. OBject bar kept me hooked, WB for XP strung me along, right now there is nothing to keep me hooked unless the skinning of OB2 is going to be much simpler but unless the new feature list is quite extemsive It won't be something I have to have...
Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm an OD subscriber, and have been one for several years.

If you introduced some new major program (ex: windowblinds or desktopx) and decided to charge for it separately, I'd have no problem with that. The program would be worth the money. What I don't like is your making a minor little program and charging as much for it as I paid for Roxio Easy CD Creator or a whole bunch of other major apps I have. There are many minor things that are part of the subscription, I expected this to be just another minor item included.

Now, I love your products, and generally like your company, but this product just isn't worth paying what you're charging. If it were $5 for OD subscribers, I'd probably get it, if it were $10 I might grumble and may or may not get it, but the current price is far higher than a single widget like this is worth.

Another way of putting it... why are you charging as much for this widget as you do for WindowBlinds?

FYI: To use your gripe at the very beginning, I'm also the kind of guy who sees the prices for movie food as a rip-off and doesn't get any. If they charged normal prices for that stuff it would be another matter entirely. I've also found that $4 pizzas in the grocery store are often just as good as the $18 pizzas that Dominos has. It's a simple matter of not paying more for something than it's worth.