Brad's Skinning Blog: GUI Olympics rants, trademarks, videos, and what's in a skin...

I remember now why I don't like doing GUI Olympics/Championships. The horror...the horror. There's always someone who thinks their entry is the end all be all and wants to make everyone miserable for not being given their kudos.

I'm used to the WindowBlinds community or more specifically, the WinCustomize community. The world's largest skinning community that is also one of the most friendly and mature.  It's a fun place to hang out with. A place where the skinners are more diplomatic than most of the users!

And this week the results of the GUI Olympics were particularly tough because there were so many great skins to choose from. And the icons that have been made have reached quality levels that were simply..breathtaking.  Fortunately, I'm not an official judge. But in a way, I wish I were. Because me and Pat have put massive hours (again) into this contest and yet we have very little control over the results. So if people don't like the results, they blame the contest as a whole which I tend to take a bit personally since I've poured so much time into it.

This is particularly true on the Winamp skins where the judging is mostly at the discretion of the Nullsoft judges. I don't think Voodoo (the Neowin judge) participated in the Winamp judging this week. But the judges are exceptionally qualified. First, my friend Jark, the man behind deviantART, the largest art community in the world. Secondly, you have two judges from Nullsoft itself, makers of Winamp. You'd be hard pressed to find a more prestigious and excellent set of judges than that.  And I think they've done a great job.

The results on the Winamp skins seem good to me. I'm just going by screenshots but they look good. But apparently some portions of the Winamp community weren't satisfied with them so they've taken out their angst on the contest by making it very loud that they think the contest is a joke. And in classic "shoot the messenger" a lot of the abuse was heaped on me personally even though I'm not even involved on the Winamp stuff.

To put things in contrast, on the WindowBlinds and icon packages area I could definitely see artists who could be rightfully miffed. It was sooo close on some of them. One of my personal favorite icon packages, Alloy Bezel, didn't win best themed. In fact, it didn't even place in the top 3. I was made for him.

But did you see Ian Black (vf) out there screaming about it? No. He has class. He's a real pro. And Treetog's PirateOS icons were outsanding too. Designed specifically for the pseudo-OS icon event. And Treetog is one of the most popular skinners in history. But he didn't place in the top 3.  Do you see Treetog out there ranting and raving? No. Again, he has class.

And DigitalChet's Sugarfree skin just barely missed placing in the best themed WindowBlinds skin. But has he written up some long complaint? No. In fact, none of the WindowBlinds authors were out there complaining even though there are over 100 WindowBlinds skins out there. It's about sportsmanship.

But from some of the Winamp artists/coders we get "your contest is a joke!", personal attacks, and other nastiness. Why? Some of them calling the prizes a joke in the Winamp area. Those who know me know that while I have a thick skin, I have a real weak spot for people who mistakenly believe they have leverage. I got email from a couple Winamp users saying how they hate Stardock now (as if Stardock were somehow at fault for the Winamp skin results). Another couple of users threatened to pull their skins out. That's insane thinking. Exactly how does it harm Stardock if there are Winamp skins in the contest or not? If every Winamp skin author pulled their skin, how does that harm us? The contest is there to promote skinning and we wanted Winamp to be involved because we like the guys at Nullsoft and we wanted to help highlight Winamp skinning and help promote Winamp 5. The GUI Olympics has gotten a lot of traffic. Having Winamp in the contest helps Winamp. It doesn't affect Stardock. But threatening Stardock to pull your Winamp skins is akin to threatening Microsoft to quit using ICQ.

There was more than one person at Stardock scratching their heads asking why we included Winamp instead of promoting ObjectMedia / DesktopX media playing. As cool as Winamp is, DesktopX is just as capable of doing media players: Full alpha blending, seamless animation,  all the features of WMP, VB Script, Java script support, etc.  But we didn't feel that ObjectMedia was popular enough to warrant that. Winamp, IMO, started skinning on Windows and we felt it had earned its place.  But the nastiness of the vocal elements of the Winamp community have definitely taken the shine off those warm and fuzzy feelings.

A New Name?

Speaking of traffic, no matter how you slice it, this will be the last GUI Olympics under that name. The US Olympic Commission has requested that we not use the name Olympics. Now, you can debate whether they have the right to trademark the name "Olympic" or not but we're not going to mess with it. So if there's another contest in the future like this, it'll be called something else.

WindowBlinds skinning

I don't think some people realize everything that goes into a WindowBlinds skin. This is particularly true of msstyles advocates who think of a GUI skin via the limitations of msstyles. Hence the complaining of results on the WindowBlinds side has mostly come from msstyles advocates who don't realize that WindowBlinds skins can have toolbar icons, progress animations, sound effects, wallpapers, animation, etc.  Animation, for instance, needn't slow down the computer - particularly if well used. And many of the best WindowBlinds skins this year are truly complete in this regard.

But when the "best overall" skin portion comes to play, I can almost imagine hearing some screaming from the people who think of skins as just being the title bar and borders and maybe a clever Start bar. I don't know what the judges will end up going by. Maybe they'll ignore all the other elements if they're missing.

But personally, I think having replacement progress animations and some carefully used sound, and toolbar icons and such matter to a degree. I get weary of hearing people who say "I don't want all that bloat!" Well fine, use classic. I'm skinning my GUI for a reason. I like it being different. That's the whole point. And my laptop runs these things just fine. They don't slow up my work.

Speaking of work...

In final testing for The Political Machine. Been working on the AI a lot on that. I use my machine very intensely for software development and I have DesktopX, ObjectBar. WindowBlinds and WindowFX running pretty much full time. I always wonder about these people who yell about skinning slowing down their computers. It makes me wonder what they do on their computers that is so taxing. Maybe their computers are infested with Spyware or something slowing them down.

Anyway, I hope I don't sound too cranky. It's never fun to have people tell you that you don't know anything about skinning or calling something you've put hundreds of hours into a joke as you can imagine. I can say that I'm really proud of the results of the GUI Olympics so far. I think particularly the WindowBlinds and icon artists have demonstrated a real level of class and maturity. When I saw the results, I could see why what won won even though they weren't necessarily my favorites (particularly on themed icons). But on the other hand, the quality of these things is just stunning. 28 icon packages, each having >100 icons. That's almost 3,000 icons were created and most of them with sizes up to 128x128 down to 16x16. We're talking massive effort there and the quality is stunning.

On that note, here's a link to a demo I did of some of the skins and icons of the GUI Olympics.

Video: GUI Olympics, Weeks 2 and 3...
21,566 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top

I've already removed 4 Winamp skins from the contest at their request or at least by their implied request.


That's the issue I think I have with the attitude of some of these Winamp skinners. As someone else said, they're elitist. They act like they're doing US a favor by submitting their skin. Doesn't matter to me one bit. If there was 1 Winamp skin or 100, makes no difference. But since Stardock's the one who supplied the cash portion of the Winamp prizes, I certainly don't want to hand it out to people who think the whole contest is a joke. Let them take their precious skins elsewhere.

Reply #2 Top
Too bad about the olympics thing....didn't know that olympics was copyrighted.....however....olympic games, according to Britannica, is a noun for an ancient Panhellenic festival held every fourth year and made up of contests of sports, music, and literature and dates back to the year 1610. I'm sure the old Greeks would have included GUI skinning if they computers back then
Reply #3 Top
lol. Yea, I'm not sure if such a trademark would hold up in court. But it's not important enough to fight over it.
Reply #4 Top
You will not hear any complaints from me. This whole contest was awesome!! The talent and ingenuity of all these skinners were excellent.
As for what you said Frogboy, total agreement. I love to use these skins and truly enjoy coming to Wincustomize to see what's new. For the most part this a great community of people with a lot of very talented folks.
Thanks to all involved in this contest and all the hours you folks have put into it. Later.....
Reply #5 Top
Winamp WAS a great product once, but uh... errr... ummm... isn't it now an AOL/some other mega-conglomerate's poser product now ...barely better than ad-ware? I'd say it's only marginally above ad-ware now. Sadly, I still use it, for lack of initiative on my part to find another player. Guess I should get off of my butt and figure out Object Media.

Stardock is definitely what it's all about and have to say your work and the Wincustomize community's make Winamp's pale in comparison. Can't remember the last time I visited Winamp's site to look for a new skin. Think of it this way: which requires more chops: Skinning one app (Winamp) or the complete customization of the PC experience???

One other thing... much of the comments I found posted on Winamp's site were often mean-spirited toward new skinners, last time I visited. Here, most folks (especially veterans) give encouragement and helpful advice. This can only serve to keep things growing.

BTW, I thought the prizes were very generous, but should definitely not go to anyone who wouldn't appreciate them. Any idiot should be able to understand that it takes many hours to create these works of art and it's unlikely that any prize could really compensate for that. I'm sure most participants would agree that if they were in it for the $$$ they'd be doing something else.

Keep up the good work!
Reply #6 Top
I totally understand where you're coming from Frogboy. Some people just need to take a step back or get off the pedestals they've built for themselves and appreciate everyone elses work.
Everyone who participated put a lot of effort into their work and no one person can say with any amount of certainty that one skinner didn't put as much work into a skin as another, regardless of the category. EVERYBODY who participated did their best work and the judges picked the ones that deserved to win. Period.
That's the way the game is played.

I give total respect and kudos to the skinners who've won medals. They're there because they deserved it.

By the way, thanks for mentioning my skin Frogboy.
Reply #7 Top
Guess I'm guilty of climbing up on a pedestal too and will climb off now. Still I appreciate all of your good work. Thanks all.
Reply #8 Top
I think it is key to remember that it is not just those receiving medals and prizes that are winners here.

Personally I think everyone who puts such much time and effort into the contest is a winner. I'm totally in awe of the quality of the work I see in the GUI Olympics. I can't draw a stick man personally and therefore drool when I see some of the amazing work produced.

The community as a whole wins. There was a time where true quality only came from a dedicated few such as Treetog. Because he has been around so long Treetog has become a true skinning icon (pun not totally intended), but today there are numerous artists arguably turning out work of a similar quality, many of which I had not heard of prior the the GUI Olympics.

So in summary - congratulations - we have all won, and even if not everyone appreciates your efforts Brad, Pat and all, the silent majority really do appreciate it.
Reply #9 Top
Sorry Frogboy for having to put up with stuff like that. It's rather childish of anyone to become so mean over not winning or even not liking the judges decisions then hoist blame directly on folks who didn't have a thing to do with those decisions.

This is the kind of strife I see day to day in the computer gaming world. Seems everyone has this larger than life ego and if it even gets slightly bruised? Man it's like you brought down the seven wraths of satan to swoop down and torture your very soul for eternity! I mean that's how dramatic things seem to get. Shame to see or hear of it getting that way here.

Stardock for the longest time has been one of the best places for me and I'm sure quite a few others as well. To come and learn about skinning, learn about all the neat programs that can be skinned. Winamp was not my first skinning experience. Windowblinds was. I didn't discover WinAmp that early on. I was content with my home stereo back then while on my computer.

Anyways, you guys rock. If some childish, immature individuals can't see that? That's their loss, you keep doing what you do here. I love this place, WinCustomize has been in my favorites for years now. I recently just got my subscription to WC, and I'm enjoying it quite a bit!
Reply #10 Top
I want to thank the folks at Stardock & Win Customize for running The GUI Comptetition That Isn't Connected to The US Olympic Committee.

I was a WB 3 purchaser but I never really got into. I happened to wander onto the site and saw the Competition was running and just for the heck of it, I checked it out ... WOW!

I was just blown away by the quality and thoroughness of the icons and WB skins. I still can't get over how many lovely, subtle, thoughtful and elegant skins and icons were enetered. I immediately upgraded my WB and I plan to get IP and CurserXP too. All purchases I wasn't planning to make but I couldn't help myself.

So thank you, WinCustomize and thank you very much to the many talented men and women who offer their gifts here!

If I might make a suggestion - perhaps at the next competition it might be fun to include skins for Opera or Firefox. There's a lot of fun possibilites in the many options of those browsers!
Reply #11 Top
Please, please, please dont let anything tarnish the possibility of another contest. Everyone agrees that the contest will draw a few trolls. I find it kinda funny that people would "take their skins and go home".
Spoiled brats with egos bigger than WC's libraries.
Reply #12 Top
Excuse my ignorance, but is ObjectMedia something you get in DesktopX only? It looks slick

And in regards to the games, I'd like to say thanks for the opportunity and I hope the event continues in some form or another in the future. I'd like to see how much I can improve in another 2 years
Reply #13 Top
Too bad a few people just don't get it.

To me, and I suspect most people, the GUIO was about the skinning and doing the best you could do. It was a chance to be in the same arena with some of the best skinners in the world .. prizes were secondary. I'd have entered even if there were no prizes just to be there and I think I speak for the whole Skinartistry team.

Thanks for the opportunity!
Reply #14 Top
After reading the reviews that have come before me, I am quite happy that I spend the time and the money that I do to support Stardock and Wincustomize. Brad, your frustration is warranted and completely understandable. And others of us, like those who wrote reviews before me, feel the same way. Please know that you have the support of this community. And I agree with you that it is a little bit more "mature" here. I think all of us were shocked by some of the winners. But it literally gains NOTHING to whine and complain about it. It reminds me of the whiners on the basketball court during the playoffs going on right now. Do they honestly think the refs are going to turn around and say, "oops . . . my bad . . . didn't mean to upset you" and change their call?
As far as the "olympics" word goes, again, you exemplify the class this community (Stardock & Wincustomize) is a part of. Your not going to make a big deal out of it . . . even though you could. But PLEASE don't cancel the whole idea all together. Please know the backing and support you have here. If you need, a bunch of us would gladly come up there pullin' out the soldier rags!
Like Martin mentioned, congrats to all the REAL winners - those who did their very best and grew as a result of this competition (including those who actually won medals)!
Blessings and keep up the good work.
Reply #15 Top
Scarebear,
I think you can have Object media apart from DesktopX. If you have Stardock Central, you should be able to DL it from there.
Reply #16 Top
It's nice to see that there are some people here who have taken the competition in the spirit it was intended.

Participation is the key, and respect for the people who entered, whether they won a prize or not, and the judges for making difficult choices.

Reply #17 Top
Thank you Frogboy, Stardock, Wincustomize, judges and sponsors for this great GUIO 2004 and for helping in the growth of GUI community
Reply #18 Top
Beesley - Thanks. I had to click the 'more' button to see it
Reply #19 Top
To the GUI Olympics team: Don't give up. No matter what you do, a small minority of people are gonna get angry at you. May as well just do what you want without worrying about them.

The GUI Olympics fosters creativity in skin making I'm actually seeing unique WB skins for a change! And the WinAmp section... wow, there's some great stuff in there. Icons too.

Don't let a handful of idiots ruin such a good thing.
Reply #20 Top
See. what i said.. lol..well said Frogboy..now hope we can all turn back to normal now. like what others said we support WC ALL THE WAY...
Reply #22 Top
Poor Frogboy,

I have to say I had no idea this was happening, but I went to the comments on the GUIO page I was astonished but the abusinve comments, man there are some childish people out there. This is a contest, and everyone has there own opinion. I agree I have some favorites that I would have like to win, but I have to admit that those who did win deserved it WITHOUT ANY DOUBT. Those from the winamp community have taken this personally and they shouldn't. Everyone who participated WON, because they now all have had some of the spoltlight. This competition has allowed many people to see a new side of computing, and with that many new names in skinning. Those who can't lose gracefully should not have submitted anything in the first place. There are TOO MANY entries and only a few medals (as with EVERY contest) and there will be a lot of "losers", but they should be honorable enough to understand that.

I have to say, I agree with you completely Frogboy, these entries are the best EVER, and the BAR HAS BEEN RAISED this year, EVERYONE SHOULD BE PROUD. The greatest winners of this competition are the FANS like me who get to admire such magnificent work.
Reply #23 Top
Wow, the non-recolored AVIs stick out like a sore thumb.
Reply #24 Top
Brad........Don't lose heart. We, that is the people that matter, think you and all the others that have put together this event have done a great job. There's just no pleasing some people and as you say the real pro's really stand out. Thanks for all your hard work
Reply #25 Top
Basically... everything everyone has said. Just to add my support.

What about "GUI Olympiad"?

Jerry

PS put DX Objects in next time so I can compete.