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Editiorial: Are skinners abandoning originality in exchange for popularity?

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Editiorial: Are skinners abandoning originality in exchange for popularity?

from WinCustomize Forums

I was doing an article today on the history of WindowBlinds skinning. And I firmly believe that the vocal "minimalistic skinsa re king" crowd have really done real harm to skinning. I say that because skin authors seem to have become so afraid of making anything that isn't "minimalistic" because not only will they not be appreciated for being creative and original, they're likely to get flamed by the "Minimastic" brigade.

Let me show you some skins from 1999 so you can see what I mean in terms of originality.

 

This is old but when was the last time you saw a skin that tried to look like something other than "Look, it's another generic GUI"? Or at least done reasonably well?

This is from 2000! Sure there's OS skins in here too but look at that Allend Bond skin. Or Dangeruss's skin.

This is from Shoggot. His title bar blade actually rotated (animated) when it was the active window and the blade stretched as you increased the size of the window. I can't even remember the last time someone made a good animated title bar. And it's so easy. It's just frames of animation. Some little glowing effect or SOMETHING other than the usual gradients that everyone seems fixated on.

I believe that the reason for the lack of creativity these days is because of the obsession with downloads combined with fatigue from being flamed by the critics who will look at a skin that took 2 weeks to make and shrug it off "I won't use that crap" simply because it's not Windows Luna (but red) or some skin that looks like a slightly more minimalistic version of Luna.

Here's one from DAK from Russia released FOUR years ago.

When was the last time you saw a skin that used animation this clever? This Matrix skin by Mercury was made 4 years ago.

 

These two skins from Dangeruss, which are going on 5 years in age, show what skinning is all about. Creative and yet outstanding quality. These are the kinds of skins WindowBlinds was made for artistic freedom to create cool and interesting looking things. Little touches like semi-transparent scrollbars (how often do you see that these days?) and captions on the title bar buttons.

Many skin authors seem to be skinning more for popularity rather than for themselves. Back before skinning was so popular, popularity wasn't an issue - there just weren't enough peopel using this stuff.  But now, skinning is not just popular, but with popularity comes..well criticism. The skins you see here took real work to make. But who wants to spend weeks on a skin only to have some anonymous user slam it because they think it's "gaudy".

I wish I had the talent to create good artwork like you see here because I would create "gaudy" skins (if these are "gaudy"). I would rather create a skin that is new and different than yet another "It's very much like Luna but the title bar is slightly smaller and it has a gradient..."  (not that I'm not guilty of that myself since those kinds of skins take less time and will get more downloads.

The skins you see here are available on WinCustomize.com in the WindowBlinds section. Just look at Dangeruss, Mercury, D.A.K. and Allen Bond if you, as a skin author, want to see how these skins were made or if you, as a skin user, want to try them out (of course, since they were made before XP, not all of xP will be skinned with them).

36,871 views 78 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Sorry y'all... but I am NOT even going to bother reading all the comments. Wasn't it a long long time ago in a galaxy far far far away that skinning was about skinning you're OWN shit and sharing it with others??? If y'all have gotten so far off base from the heart of skinning... ( explicative here). It is about YOU... no other. Who gives a rats ass about download counts, or featured skins... If you are a true skinner, you do it for the passion. You do it for the release... you do it FOR YOU. All the rest of y'all... GET OVER IT.

My 2 cents Luv, peace and PRIDE!
Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Way back when skinning was 'young' and Wincustomize hadn't even been created, skinning was about playing around and showing your friends what you could come up with. There we no 'huge' download numbers and it really was quite a small world...

NOW, we have over ONE MILLION regestered ppl on this site alone...

Skinning has become about downloads, not about having fun and coming up with the most original design. As someone pointed out earlier, skinning has also become more time consuming with the addition of more features in Windowblinds and XP's plethora of customizable images. (IE icons by themselves can be a pain sometimes.)

Most people would rather 'get it done' than take the time to do a 'good job' and be creative...

And as I mentioned earlier, skinning has become 'commercialized'. No, not necessarily by money, but by the huge user base that is out there...If ppl like these minimalistic skins that are very 'good' as eye-candy but not at all creative, then thats what the skinners will create.

On the other hand, If a skin is functional and doesnt make me squint to read the text/see the buttons, I dont give a damn weather its trendy or not. For me, skins are about functionality.
If its the most original and creative skin on the internet, but its not 'pleasing to the eye'...then its worth a download just to look at, but Id never use it for more than a couple minutes.

KC: Skinning has become about getting the most downloads...again 'commercialized' in a way. It is time consuming, and difficult to come out with a good skin that is original, and if no one downloads it, then most skinners consider that skin to be a waste of their time. As a result, ppl skin to get the most downloads and to make the most skins in the least time...As a result, simplistic, and 'pretty' (but not creative) skins come out.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Have to agree with FB on this one...I just wish more of the early wb skins displayed in this article were updated to wb4...there are so many original ones like the kind on this page that will never be used anymore! It is striking just how advanced these were & still are up to this day!!
Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Brad I think you (Stardock) are partly to blame for this lack of innovation. Most of the skins these days are created with your 'widgets' and just coloured. Perhaps it's all a little too easy to 'create' a bland, minimalistic skin.
Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"Brad I think you (Stardock) are partly to blame for this lack of innovation. Most of the skins these days are created with your 'widgets' and just coloured. Perhaps it's all a little too easy to 'create' a bland, minimalistic skin."                                    Possibly the most untruthful thing I've read.There's certainly a lot of first time skinners uploading a badly recoloured Luna, but Stardock didn't create Luna, neither did Brad.Skinstudio may include it as a template, but it's merely that, a guide for people to work over.As for minimalistic widgets, I don't recall ever seeing any of those.
Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hmm, I tried to start something by updating old skins like 'Synapse' to XP, but that try failed.
Reply #57 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Are skinners abandoning originality for popularity? Of course they're not. There are several things going on here. Firstly, you added a feature to Skinstudio which made it possible to port over .msstyle skins to WB. Since the vast majority of skins created in .msstyle format are 'minimalistic' and since WB users clearly want to use them, they got ported over. Secondly, the skinning scene has matured to the point where skinners and end-users alike have grown weary of nasty novelty skins. People just don't want disgusting violent green obscenities on their desktop, they want usable skins that won't frighten small children.

Frankly, the skins you chose to illustrate your point are hilarious, pig-ugly monstrosities for the most part and I think the majority of people are glad to see the back of them. You're seriously telling me that you'd leave something like 'What is the Matrix' on your desktop? Those animated numbers and the ugly colour-scheme would drive you nuts. It's almost an object lesson in how not to design a useable interface. The fact is that people actually like to use their PCs, not just power them up and stare at them from afar. 'Minimalistic' skins can actually be used while you go about your PC business, they tend to be far less resource hungry, they won't scare small children and they look excellent.

Your assertion that "vocal "minimalistic skinsa re king" crowd have really done real harm to skinning." is singularly hilarious. If anything, they've opened up the whole area of skinning to a far wider audience - the kind of people who'd rather dangle their nether-regions in hot fat than use a skin as ugly, childish and down-right nauseating as Driftwood. The scene's matured, that's all, it's still every bit as inventive and innovative as it always was, it's just becoming less of a novelty arcade. I for one, am very relieved.
Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top
There's nothing wrong with minimalistic skins. Personally, I am 30, and spend most of my computing time at work. In fact, my OD subscription is for use on my work laptop... I don't even use any of the OD apps on my home computers. When I was 16, sure, I spent countless hours playing games and looking at porn just like the rest of the 16 year olds. And back then, I would have loved to see/use some of those funky skins. But now, I need something easy on the eyes, practical, and totally usable in an everyday environment. For me, that means minimalistic.
Reply #59 from WinCustomize Forums Top
What is the sense in doing a skin that resamples the clasic look changed by 3DCC (If anybody still knows that tool) ? I don't need any files to do that nor a visual style. There were more original 3DCC colorschemes floating arround a few years back than 50 % of those minimalist msstyles look nowadays.
Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Of course, something like CopperDeck II is nothing I would use at work (use more easy on the eyes skins there), but I still enjoy it at home from time to time. I have used Universe Metal for example at work for 1 year with the full range of office apps and even programming and I was fine and had some eye candy at work also.
Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top
ok, fast connection here. just browsed through the earliest 400 skins here. the good and "original" stuff were almost all ports from Kaleidoscope and Enlightenment. the rest are mostly OS ports. Mercury seems the only exception here. Russ started to do original graphics later and i guess Treetog is not the one to blame for all the ports under the Pixtudio label.
i still think it´s more about individuals that put up extraordinary skins. my list here is probably shorter than anybody else´s.
but check for yourself. the percentage of "minimal" skins is not higher than it was in the beginning. it´s just that really cool stuff is lacking currently. but maybe if skinning does get more popular some real designers might get interested in it as well.

and yeah 3DCC rules
Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Moshi- I don't agree with your assessment. I too hvae looked at the early skins.


I DO agree that Kaleidoscope's waning has been a hit on skinning in a big way because it was a huge source of innovation that's gone.


Dokt (andy) - There just aren't that many good msstyles out there. Yes, they tend to be minimalisic and there are some great ones by Kol and chaNinja and a few others. But what's your point?


The issue isn't what END USERS want. The question is what SKINNERS want. I am in full agreement that minimalistic skins are going to be more popular. We saw this long before msstyles hit the scene with the popularity of OS skins and OS-like skins. 


But skinners also tended to try new things more in the past. But they don't do so as much now. Why? I contend, with considerable evidence from reading forums and comments, that skin authors get tired of getting critical, abusive comments when they do something that deviates from the Luna-esq design.


I like minimalistic skins too. But I also like to try out new and interesting things. Skinning is, ultimately, supposed to be fun too.


If, as you claim, skinning has matured, you would see MORE variety. Not less. This may come as a shock but some people, myself included, LIKE both minimalisic skins and "nausiating" skins like Driftwood (I'm running it right now). Look at the other responses in this thread. I'm not alone.

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy: i´m not sure why you don´t agree with me here. maybe you do not recognize these skins. i, as a former Enlightenment user, do. for example all the skins that have the buttons on the left window border (your Blue Crystal for example) are ports from Enlightenment themes or copying the pattern of the E12 default skin. same might about not recognizing might be true about the Kaleidoscope part.

our opinions are not that far away here. i agree with the locker room mentality on some forums. that often leads to the lowest common denominator. the (not much better) opposite is Wincustomize whene some people ask for an admin every time they get a honest rating or comment. so there are other skinners that produce horrible stuff since years that don´t bother to improve their graphics skills as they get enough "good job" comments from their friends anyways.

but the most important factor are individuals. the amount of people that can produce extraordinary stuff is limited. the only skin submitted to the GUI Olympics yet that would fit into that category is Hippy´s RalliArt. (Gabriel´s skin is amazing as well, but in a different manner)
it was luck that there were a few gifted people skinning at the same time. that can of course happen any time again. but more skinners only means more skins, not more good skins.
Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Moshi - what we disagree on is not that there wasn't influence but that they were mostly ports. For instance, I was part of the "Galactica" controversy and Dangeruss's skin is not Galactica. You feel it is. But it's not. It shares similarity (and I don't want to get into it again, it was a huge pixel by pixel comparison). I believe that many ideas were borrowed from various sources but I don't agree that they were just wholsale copies.


I am very familiar with the Kaleidoscope library and was on the Kaleidoscope mailing list. You are right though, our opinions are not far away really. I believe that Enlightenment and Kaleidoscope increased the amount of innovation and that people regularly were inspired by the works of others.


BTW, would you be interested in writing an article on Linux skinning sometime? I'd feature it whereever I could because I do think that Linux gets a bit shafted in terms of credit for some of the innovation that goes on there.

Reply #66 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I agree with you that most of them have been rather dull and redundant lately but you still need not forget those that do stick their heads out of their shell like Lipiani and his XBoxLiveClub Windowblinds skin located at https://www.wincustomize.com/window.asp?Cmd=COMMENTS&Lib=1&SkinID=3984
Reply #67 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Skinners skin what they want to skin and how they want to skin it - you can't change that.
Reply #68 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I consider my DesktopX objects creative or atl east as creative as I can make them. I make them what I want. I made my NintendoNet things at my own will (one that I hae uploaded but is awaiting approval is using hte nintenodnet logo so not as creative) but anyways. I think my ideas are creative and the fonts I use arent normal or necisarily what people want. I like minimalistic yet usable skinz. I wish Kryptonite was slightly smaller. Anyways if you registered OD and WC then you should be able to get a great skin, it is called Kryptonite, it has clear parts and all. I hope skinners make things that work with applications yet are creative. But make them usable on smaller screens so to sum it up I agree while disagreeing with this article. Good idea though I read it through and will now look for the those skins listed.
Reply #69 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Frogboy: i don´t think i am the right guy to write that article. i have always pretty much ignored KDE (currently not even installed) and after all that´s what about half of all X users are running. i also never looked at Karamba which is probably interesting as well (can be compared with Samurize, DesktopX, Konfabulator screenshot: http://www.kde-look.org/content/pre2/9453-2.jpg ).
Reply #70 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'm trying not to be cynical but I don't think I'm succeeding. After reading the article I had the idea that it would be cool to learn to skin...it was an idea I quickly scrapped when I saw that you actually have to BUY SkinStudio if you want to make really great skins. So I have to wonder if you're really complaining about unimaginative skins, or poor sales of SkinStudio. For a product( or productS as the case may be) that basicly depends on people making skins for free, I think making people pay to make those skins really requires balls.
Reply #71 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Most of those examples were ports, yes original but ports of something existing for something else.
Reply #72 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Might see more originality if more of the dud settings in SKS actually worked correctly...and were supported by WB.
Reply #73 from WinCustomize Forums Top
"I had the idea that it would be cool to learn to skin...it was an idea I quickly scrapped when I saw that you actually have to BUY SkinStudio if you want to make really great skins."

ShadowsKnight, Many of the great skins of the past predate "SkinStudio". "Builderblinds" for instance was a freeware program I downloaded years ago (Only to discover that I don't have the gift ). Many of the best, most creative skins were created by skin authors using graphics programs that have no association whatsoever with Stardock or Wincustomize. Generally you can find freeware to make skins and for many other applications. Also generally when you spend the money to BUY a program you are going to get an easier to use program with an easier to use interface with less bugs and better help file/support. This is true in every area of life. "TANSTAAFL" (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch). If you ues freeware you will not spend money BUT you will envest more time in learning to use the program/programs properly. I woulden't say you were cynical I would say you are unrealistic.
Reply #75 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I'll pick option #4 Dreww, POOR. And not overly skilled in the area of graphics, for example, it took me over an hour to figure out how to make a simple analog clock face in PSP and all it consisted of were 2 nested circles and some simple coloring. As for unrealistic or naive, no I don't think so, look at UT or UT2003, do you think that if people had to pay for the priviledge of making maps/mods/models for those games, that they would be as popular? No, they wouldn't be, user made maps/mods extend the life of the game(s) by a very large factor. In any case, I still stand by my statement that Stardock basicly depends on people making skins for free, and as far as I can tell, they give nothing back to the people (community) they depend on. It might be a good idea for them to have monthly, or bi-monthly skinning contests and have a prize of some kind, and once a year have a larger contest ( or take the top 3 from the last 6/12 contests) and award a years membership to the winner. There are all kinds of possibilities, yet they do nothing except expect people to buy their software and make skins for free ( which is where I'd say TANSTAAFL applies to stardock ). If you want another example, look at DeviantArt and Renderosity, they are VERY involved with their communities, contests, tutorials, you name it, they do it.

Speaking of free, here's my free contest/idea list:

* April Contest: WindowblindsMovie based theme
* May Contest: (2 part) WindowblindsOS Minimalistic/OS General
* June Contest: BootskinsFantasy Based Bootskin
* July Contest: IconPackagerAnimated Icon packs

Etc. Although considering the number of programs Stardock offers, it might be an idea to run several contests for different things at the same time.

Also, to clarify, I'm not saying that Stardock should make skinstudio completely free, but I do think it should be included (the full pro version) with relevent purchased programs (ex: buy the full version of WB and SkinStudio should be included with it for no extra charge)

Overall what Stardock needs to do is get more involved with their community, beyond hosting some fourms/websites and expecting people to send them money.