Frogboy Frogboy

Editiorial: Are skinners abandoning originality in exchange for popularity?

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Editiorial: Are skinners abandoning originality in exchange for popularity?

from WinCustomize Forums

I was doing an article today on the history of WindowBlinds skinning. And I firmly believe that the vocal "minimalistic skinsa re king" crowd have really done real harm to skinning. I say that because skin authors seem to have become so afraid of making anything that isn't "minimalistic" because not only will they not be appreciated for being creative and original, they're likely to get flamed by the "Minimastic" brigade.

Let me show you some skins from 1999 so you can see what I mean in terms of originality.

 

This is old but when was the last time you saw a skin that tried to look like something other than "Look, it's another generic GUI"? Or at least done reasonably well?

This is from 2000! Sure there's OS skins in here too but look at that Allend Bond skin. Or Dangeruss's skin.

This is from Shoggot. His title bar blade actually rotated (animated) when it was the active window and the blade stretched as you increased the size of the window. I can't even remember the last time someone made a good animated title bar. And it's so easy. It's just frames of animation. Some little glowing effect or SOMETHING other than the usual gradients that everyone seems fixated on.

I believe that the reason for the lack of creativity these days is because of the obsession with downloads combined with fatigue from being flamed by the critics who will look at a skin that took 2 weeks to make and shrug it off "I won't use that crap" simply because it's not Windows Luna (but red) or some skin that looks like a slightly more minimalistic version of Luna.

Here's one from DAK from Russia released FOUR years ago.

When was the last time you saw a skin that used animation this clever? This Matrix skin by Mercury was made 4 years ago.

 

These two skins from Dangeruss, which are going on 5 years in age, show what skinning is all about. Creative and yet outstanding quality. These are the kinds of skins WindowBlinds was made for artistic freedom to create cool and interesting looking things. Little touches like semi-transparent scrollbars (how often do you see that these days?) and captions on the title bar buttons.

Many skin authors seem to be skinning more for popularity rather than for themselves. Back before skinning was so popular, popularity wasn't an issue - there just weren't enough peopel using this stuff.  But now, skinning is not just popular, but with popularity comes..well criticism. The skins you see here took real work to make. But who wants to spend weeks on a skin only to have some anonymous user slam it because they think it's "gaudy".

I wish I had the talent to create good artwork like you see here because I would create "gaudy" skins (if these are "gaudy"). I would rather create a skin that is new and different than yet another "It's very much like Luna but the title bar is slightly smaller and it has a gradient..."  (not that I'm not guilty of that myself since those kinds of skins take less time and will get more downloads.

The skins you see here are available on WinCustomize.com in the WindowBlinds section. Just look at Dangeruss, Mercury, D.A.K. and Allen Bond if you, as a skin author, want to see how these skins were made or if you, as a skin user, want to try them out (of course, since they were made before XP, not all of xP will be skinned with them).

36,871 views 78 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Two of the best skins I ever used were WBManiaIV and HeavyEquipment by the Community. I would love to see both of them updated for XP.
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I remember a guy named Morph who made a wb named wired that was animated w/ purple/blue lightning bolts & electric zapping sounds very cool stuff... hehe

I wonder if it's cuz wb's has changed so much and more elements of the windows are now skinnable that ppl are threatned by what may seem harder for them to tackle so they get busy trying to cover all the bases instead of focusing on the far less fewer bases that were skinned back in the earlier builds of wb's? (who knows)
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
YES.....!!!

I'm a new user to this skinning thing. I paid good money just to get away form the usual, the simple, the boring.

This is just what I needed to read. thanks for SPEAKING UP. Maybe the creative skinners like Pixtudio, Tiggz and others will continue bless us with great inspired artwork. Many of us users are truly greatful for their hard work.
Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
well...I am making windowblinds skins for a bit more then 3 years, during this time I allready made around 100 wb skins (maybe one of the most prolific skinners so far). I would say that I didn't make more then 5 minimalistic skins.
Many times, I recieved comments that my skins was some kind of busy. I have my style and I am happy with it,my skills keeps changing all the time, but my style doesn't, I will not change it, even when making hired skins or premium suites.
Creativity and Originality is the thing that i most respect in a skinner work.
Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Enjoyed your Editiorial Frogboy. I looked at your examples and five (5) caught my eye. Unfortunately, these are not for XP in total. Perhaps your writing will give those who design WindowBlinds a boost in Spirit and back to the drafting board for their next big {new-old) hit!
Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Windows is windows. You can alter the framework, but not all of the content. I don't know if it is already possible to change the colour of the so called "hard coded fonts", but as long as some parts are unskinnable you aren't likely to see drastic changes in colour for instance. As far as design, there are only so many curves possible on a rectangular shape. As I have said in the beginning when I started to look at WB, the ultimate skins will mostly become lookalikes. Some WB are art indeed (not necessarily for everyday use), most are very functional designs like a comfy chair. Duopixels is my pick where art and functionality come together.
Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thinking about your thoughts on this, I looked at my skin's library and I have way more minimilistic skins then any other. Comparatively speaking, the other skins have little more creativity than the simple one's. It's quite possible that my like or dislike of a skin today has been averted by the skinning communities propensity to use a minimalistic style :/ The Dangerus skins are freakin hot and only wish all the skins looked like that! You can say that many skins are simple in design "if" the artist is getting his/her feet wet and expanding their skill and personal style or ideas. I have noticed though, that a lot of artists are just purpetuating the minimlistic style because that is the "norm" now. THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX PEOPLE!!!! Good article

disclaimer...I have no skill in making skins so I'm sure it's hard, but look at the skins above and tell me "it can't be done"!
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think a big factor is time. The skins frogboy show, have probably, 30 to 40 images. Most are only one color. Now skins have more than 160 images, not including animations.
Back in the day, someone could ask for a skin in the morning, and by lunch, someone would say "here ya go".
Now, it could take (for a good skin) 2 to 3 weeks or more.
People were more creative back then, but they didn't have to live with it (so to speak).
Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well My opinion on really animated skins are that they work awesome as part of a whole theme or suite..IE Toon XP o..But Their so hard to make look good with diffrent walls and such..especially when you have a Animatiuon and a Skin name all over it..It looks mismatched with a wallpaper that has a diffrent name or logo on it..Or worse yet..I hate when Skinners put their web address all over everything also..It takes hours to remove logos for websites from skins and walls...Im not allowed other web sites blatently logoed on my screen at work..as long as it is not to flashy they dont complain..But lots of flash and its a nogo...
Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top
While I applaud the discussion, could you please take the pictures off the home page? It really is slowing down the page load time.
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top
My only comment is where can I get the old ones you showed.
I love that kind!!!
Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well, I have to say that I do enjoy seeing "creative" skins and their authors stepping WB up a notch. Many have been works of art and I hope to see many more.

But, when it comes down to it, I have to be able to do my daily tasks without being destracted by the skin itself. Some of the skins pictured above are incredibly fun, but I think I might get a headache if I used them for more than a day or two

I agree with the others that there is a place for both types of skins. I like the ones that make me think outside the box, and I like the ones that I can leave on for a month... it's a matter of personal preference.
Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I wonder if this will effect the GUI Olympics?

Anyway, I think as of late there were some skins that are out of the ordinary.

I would disagree with that a skin has to have all the parts skinned. Some authors get allot of flack about that... add a new feature to Windowblinds and you HAVE to skin it.


At any rate, lets see the next generation of skins for this year. Maybe there will be something different.
Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I fully agree with Frogboy on this one. But part of the problem is with what images are permitted with wincustomize. Look at the images people send to use with their WB skins. They show wallpaper. They show lots of items which are part of other customize programs. When I look at WB skins, all I want to view is wat WB actually skins, and I want to view it on a blank background. Period. Nothing else. Show me what the skin does to the startup menu, the icons of the quickstart menu, and what a typical window looks like. That way I can actually have a chance of seeing what the skin actually looks like. As it is, I must mentally subtract all the stuff in the screenshot which has nothing to do with the WB skin.

I want skins with animation. I want skins with a clock. I want skins with lots of buttons doing neat stuff like Winmenu2. I want skins with buttons someplace other than the top edge on the far right.

The *only* reason I don't use the older skins now is because older skins don't support the newer features of WB. If I had more time, I'd probably teach myself enough about skinning to update some of my old favorites. But that is just not possible.

At present, I D/L a bunch of skins about once every month or two, I try them out for 10 minutes, then I discard most of them. WB is a really neat program, but almost none of the newer skins interest me. I am sure the newer skins have many fans. I am just not one of them.
Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I do not have an ounce of creativity when it comes to customizing so, I download skins, icons and cursors from Stardock. To me it doesn't matter whether you design minimalistic skins or very fancy, anyone who can design skins or anthing else is a true artist in my book.

Thank you one and all for using your time and then let us non artists reap the benifits of your creations.
Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It seems to me that their are two distinctly different types of skins and users using ODNT.

Skins: Artistic or Usuable. The difference between these two is simple functionality. While creativity is applied to either type of skin, those intended for daily, productive use are generally sleeker. Creativity is suppressed in favor of producing a skin that loads/redraws quickly with little or no problems in a wide range of software/hardware. Artistic skins are intended more for a "Wow!" effect generally they are not used daily by the average user with the average powered computer.

Users: Average vs Power. Generally the power user is more likely to have the artistic skin. With more capable computer systems they appreciate the added functionality built into the skin. Power users are less affected by the added processing overhead.


Most people are going to find a visually appealing skin with the features that they need. Once installed the skin will probably remain for ~6-18 months.

Personally, as per an email discussion with Frogboy over a year ago, I doubt their will be any serious GUI advance/"killer app" until vector-, instead of pixel-, based graphics become the Windows standard. Particularly if the design separates into three files: Shape/Layout (round, square, etc) , Color Palette, Light (transparency, glassiness, etc).

Unfortunately this is something that MS will have to implement. Not Stardock.
Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think the biggest thing driving this was the limited nature of the XP Visual Styles that were out there. 90% of them for the first several months were little but recolors of the XP interface, and that sort of thing became acceptable. I don't think skin sites would have even accepted them as uploads before then, but it became mainstream and popular. I applaud the GUI Olympics, if only because some of the best skins of the last several months have come out in the opening entries, and some original stuff too.
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top
~ I've had my OD subscription for 3 years now and what originally made me purchase it was Windowblinds. I loved the fact that the GUI could be changed to something completely different! I used to just fiddle with the colors in the display properties before I discovered WB. When I discovered Stardock and WinCustomize I was in heaven!!

~ I have to agree with Frogboy that some of the skins from 2-3 years ago did seem more original and creative, but there is an upper echelon of skinners(treetog, dangeruss and chadamus to name a few) that have consistently produced original skins, whtever style, that have graced everyone's desktop at some point in time!

~ The fact that minimalistic skins have become so popular is because Windowblinds itself has become so popular. Nowadays, people don't just use it at home, they use it at work also. Unfortunately, some skins aren't appropriate for the workplace...enter the minimalistic skin. I work at a law firm and use a minimal skin there but my laptop and home pc's have whatever I want on them, usually something a little more eye-catching. I'm not saying I don't like minimalistic skins, they have there place, but I prefer something a little more flashy. I'm not saying that minimal skins aren't creative or original because they can be.

~ Personally, I think the simple fact that someone creates a skin in the first place...is creative, but is it original? Regardless of what type or style it is, the artist obviously devoted their time to make it and criticism from people who don't like it because it's not something they'd use, should be ignored. The artist isn't making it specifically for you, they're making it for themselves because they enjoy doing it.

~ One thing I don't like is when I see someone pumping out 3 or 4 skins in a week that are so similar they could be bundled as substyles of the original. To me, that isn't really original.
Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Best animated skin for XP is 'Sex Pistons'. Such a good idea.
Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top
First of all I don't skin...don't have the gift. Having said that, I have been coming here almost daily since the demise of skins.org so I have observed the evolution of this thing called "skinning" for several years.
Some observations: 1. I agree with Hippy in that, if all a person wants is recolored windows, or a small border then WB is a waste of time. Size is not everything however. When I think of some very good skins from, say...Dangeruss, Treetog, Jafo, etc. I don't always think of skins that take up a lot of real estate. In fact, most of the skins that Frogboy uses as examples above aren't especially "thick", just very creative and eye catching (use of texture on window backgrounds, the illusion of light without distracting from or making the labels unreadable, uniquely shaped scrollbars that are at the same time not distracting) These are the qualities that I look for in a WB skin. Sadly, these are qualities that I do not seem to find nearly as often any more. I download very few WB skins any more for this reason. 2. Time may be a factor. With not only more things to skin on WB there are now a pleathora of other skinning programs. (DX, Cursor XP, Icon Packager, Object Dock, Logons and now even Boot Screens) With the emphasis on "Suites", the really good artists will not produce as many strictly WB skins. 3. Lastly I have noticed that every time a new skinning program comes out (and thay seem to come out like clockwork ((and Yes I think this is a good thing)))a lot of people rush to make skins in the new medium (human nature / new toy) and kind of forget the older programs for a little while.
Just some thoughts... for what they are worth
Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top
One more thing, I agree that in general not very much effort is put into the preview on most skins. I want to see the WB skin, not the authors desktop
Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've been a user of W/B and an addicted downloader of most skins (just to see how good they look on my box!) for over 5 years.
Most of the classics that appear here are archived on my back up and many remain in use.
Almost anything by Mercury, Shoggot, Crumbutt and Dangeruss top my 'best of' list.
My 'daily drivers' are either 'Grizzle 2' by adni18 or 'Skink' by essorant .... different but very user friendly and about as minimalist as I would go.
With the evoloution of WB4 it would be great to see some of my favourites up-dated to take advantage of the new features, but only for that reason, as the designs are so good.
I must add my 10c worth re the current trend .... 'porting' is not a great idea IMHO, but there are certain people who need to go for numbers and I guess a port of an average skin gets them a quick starting point.
And Nomad529 is right on the mark re those who knock out several 're-coloured' versions of the same skin ..... I've just culled my files and there are are lot of skins that fill the bill in this case.
'Originality' requires a mind that can visualise an original design concept, sadly there are few of these left .... and I'm not one either.
Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Where do I start?

I am a longtime lurk around these parts and am proud to say I paid for my first Object Desktop Subsciption almost a year before it was released, mostly because of Windowblinds. While I don't think I could ever get to the point where I could actually sit down and try to construct my own skin, I am very appreciative of everyone who has contributed. I just counted them all up, and I have an archive of over 600 skins. Almost half of them I dont do much with any more, but would love to be able to if they were updated. While this would be an ideal opportunity to get my rear into gear and try updating some of them myself, I am no longer the bachelor-with-no-life that I once was and can't find the time I think I should take to do the kind of job these older skins deserve to have done for them. One of the happiest times for me was when Essorant went back and updated many of his skins to work with Windowblinds 3.x. Alas, I wish he had been able to do more, but to have had him actually do the updates was the best part.

I would like to point out a few other skins and skinners besides the ones Frogboy mentioned that made me wonder how people could come up with such ideas or were just a blast to use or show off:

Many other skins by Aleksyandr, Donna Spadafore, Mangas, APB, jcg, and digital FX would all be worth the time taken to check out.
F2B by Jef
FuturaIII by Jay-z2k (see also the other Futura skins by CRUMBUT)
Iridium by Shawn Murdock
Violaceous by hyaline

There are so many WB skins that would see a wonderful revival if only somebody would update them. Anybody up for it?
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I have been making skinz since the windowblinds version .3 era. I was also one of the first to make minimalistic skinz. Back then you could only skin the basics (scroll bars, frame, buttons). I made some skinz on my lunch hour. It was fun because it was not that much of a chore. It did not seem like anyone cared about popularity, I did not. It was nice but I enjoyed the emails that people from all over would send me telling me how they liked what I had done. I had some great skinz and I had some really bad ones but I had so much fun making them.
I miss that time. Back then there was a small handfull of us giants. I thinks that is why things were also alot different. Back in the early days there was not much to go on. Everything we created was new and no one had ever tried that before. Now with so many people its kinda hard to come up with something new, but not impossible. Its sad to see how things have evolved. Everything either looks like some Aqua rip or a recolored XP rip.
I also agree that time is a factor. Even really good skinz back then took at most a couple of days maybe. Now things are so complex and a good skin can take a few weeks. I just dont seem to have that much time anymore to skin like I want to. I always did find the time making skinz relaxing. I have had a swelling in the number of people wanting me to come back and I probably will to a degree. I will probably just redo all my old skinz. Alot of people want a XP version of Gel. Its amazing to hear that people still use some of these skinz even though they were made for like windowblinds 1 or 2.
I really hope that people start to create something different. I see tons of talent out there. I am always playing around with customization. I have tried just about everything but I always come back to windowblinds, and desktopx. I have gone spells without anything on my system only to come back and say 'wow look what they have done'.
What is come down to I think is there is a line between usablitiy and looks. If something is usable then its probably is not a very 'crazy' looking skin. The other side is if something looks great then it might be so graphic that is might be hard to find a button or something. People I think seem to have leaned towards the usablitly side, for good reasons. No one want an unusable skin even if it looks great. The result is that the untraditional skinz get bad reviews or some negative feedack or something then those skinz get made less often. Everyone wants there skin to become popular. The whole thing is like natural/artificial ion just for skinz.
- Shawn Murdock