Hmm, let me see-

Battleship-Fix A- I like this idea. It's pretty solid and simple, and makes battleships excellent at helping to pop lots of things. This would also help if a battleship is surrounded, since it can now fire virtually all around it (Sins would need to support dorsal/ventral banks for it to truely be able to fire all around itself).

BS-Fix B- also pretty good, but not as useful for the Kol and Radiance as the Kortul.

BS-Fix C- this is REALLY good IMO. By combining the solid idea of TpB increase, with some DPS bonuses to the banks that do not get TpB bonuses, you get an excellent damage-dealer ship that thrives in the thick of the fight.

Support- really, either fix would be good; however, if an increased AM reserve is chosen, it will still need to have AM regen buffs otherwise it will be perpetually running out of gas.

Siege-Fix A- since the general consensus seems to be that the Revelation is under-used and UP, I think that a bombing damage bonus would most benefit the Revelation; especially since the Vulk and Marza both have really good bombardment abilities.

Siege-Fix B- I think that this fix would really only benefit the Marza and Vulkoras. A damage bonus would probably help the Revelation, but the Revelation is really a support capital that is also a bombardment vessel. Or vice versa, depending on how you look at it.

Another fix for the Marza's Incendiary Shells has been to allow it to stack a limited number of times (I think that 10 times wouldn't be outrageous).

@Darvin: I was actually thinking of more of a boost for the Revelation.  Perhaps give it A as well as a support cap buff and then give the Marza and the Vulk B.

@Storm: In my other thread, I discuss why making GRG bypass mitigation is a bad idea.

lol you made another one...

I don't see the need to up the dps of capships (battleship class or otherwise).  I think that would be a mistake.  I think frigs and hc are where your dps should come from.  To me, capships are for SUPPORT - even the battleships.  So make sure they can support the fleet.  And the first priority for making them support the fleet is buffing their survivability.

I do see a dilemna for the kortul, however.  Currently, one of its best abilities has to do with buffing its surviveabity (power surge).  But in buffing all caps's surviveabiltiy (which is sorely needed), this could effectively nerf the kortul.  So this needs to be thought out well.  Power surge, which is actually a good ability, might need to be unfortunately reworked to do something else, i.e. add significantly more dps instead of significantly more surviveability.

The same thing might be said of the kol with its shield ability.  It's special shield ability could be made rather useless with significant buffs to all capship surviveabilty (again, something that is sorely needed).

One idea might be to make capships counter other capships by changing their weapons to anti-capital damage (if they aren't already)?  Then the battleship surviveability abilities (kortul power surge, kol shield, radiance armor) might be just fine, because they would add surviveability in fights against other caps.  EDIT: This assumes, however, that capship surviveability is buffed by something like nerfing the hell out of the damage frigs, bombers, and cruisers do to caps, and not something like increasing mitigation or vastly increasing hull.

Nonsense.  NO caps should support the fleet through DPS (unless you are talking a special ability, like missle barrage), and ALL caps should have tanking power so that they can survive to peform said mission of "supporting the fleet."

As far as battleships go, they should support the fleet through ABILITIES such as jam weapons, flak burst, ignite antimatter, etc, not through dps or tanking (all caps need tanking).  Another proposed role for them might be to make them capship killers.

Yes, its possible to do.  In fact, it is incredibly easy.  Just have two instantaction dealdamage effects where one AFFECTS_ONLY_HULL and the other AFFECT_SHIELDS_AND_HULL.

That said, I don't like the idea.  I still think that GRG should be a shield breaker as suggested in my other thread that is dedicated to solutions to abilities.

-12, -24, -36 mitigation, right?  That'd work as well, assuming it also halts the growth of mitigation for ~5 sec.

-Twilight Storm

lolz.  That's right, you said something about that being too high.  Sorry, I'm going off memory here.

And it lowers the cap?  Hmm.  That'd work too.  (I do recomend somewhere around -25% at lvl 3 and keep its current damage per level.)  So would the lowering be total, for a set ammount of time, or would it stack per shot?  (If it stacks, then ~15% at lvl 3 would be a little better.)

-Twilight Storm

-Edit:  Agent, we disagree on the use of caps.  You say fix Flak burst opposed to making Battleship a DPS, I say fix Battleship as opposed to making it a support.  Cap-Ships are essentially supposed to be super versions of Frigates and Cruisers.  Analogy:

Kol=Cobalt/Kodiak/Flak(Barely)

Sova=Percheron/LRF

Marza=Krosov/LRF

Akkan=Protev/Cielo

Dunov=Hoshi/Cielo

Please don't critisise my analogy, those are just basic purposes in my eyes, I know there should be more ships included, but these are what I see as their purpose.

Now I know it's not as cut and dry as all that, but in a gmae comprised on ONLY capships, the 2 that should be dealing the most damage are Battleships (Through their own guns) and Carriers (Through their strikecraft)

The battleship already fulfills the tank role nicely, now I just would like to see some extra hitting power.  It wouldn't even break the game, it'd actually make Cap-Countering harder than Bombers and Kodiak spam, you'd have to choose the proper Cap ship.  (And what better to kill the beast?  Fight Fire with Fire...)

-Twilight Storm

-Edit:  This is totally out there(Maybe even already exists)  but what do you all think about somehow tweaking the Akkan/Progen/Jarrasul to give a slight "Like" bonus like the envoys, so long as it isn't attacking anything in the GW?

(I know most people say an immobile Capship is worthless...But It'd make every ship have a presence in Caps, And would make sense lore-wise.)

I forsee this being shot down, but please at least explain why if you disagree.

Anyone else care to jump in, this is getting nowhere on either side.  I'd be glad to conced with proper evidence or testimony from skilled players.

-Twilight Storm

Volt, we don't need caps competing with noncaps on dps.  That's the problem with the OP's suggestion, and Twilight's.  Why would anyone want that?

It's simple as hell.  Their role is to support the fleet with special abilities.  Right now they can't do that because they auto-explode whenever an enemy fleet shows up.  The solution is simply to buff their survivability against non-caps.

It's not like I want a buff to ALL of the battleship's batteries, either.  Just the primary weapon system for each one.  I do agree that capships support the fleet with abilities, butthat should not be their only role, and at least the way they are described in the lore, it was the intent to make capitol ships strong all around.  Just not to the point of making them OP.  I think a slight boost to primary batteries on BATTLESHIPS ONLY would help them fulfil their role of combat support perfectly.

Just because Capitol ships are used solely for abilities now, does not mean that is right.  The descriptions specifically give them a role if you read the manual, and the Battleships read "Combat".  To me, that means the devs intended the Battleships, (And IMO, the Carriers, but that's a different post) to be right in the thick of things dishing out the pain.  Other caps like Marza, Akkan, Dunov, and their racial counterparts, I agree they are for support of the fleet in one way or another.  But I firmly believe the Battleship should have a significant presence on the frontline.

Even the ship's abilities scream frontline: 

GRG(Yes, it's broke, but its purpose is to gut the enemy frigates)

Flak Burst(Yes, this is a supportive ability, and while slightly broke, it still fulfils its role, but again, it is a direct damage ability like GRG)

Adaptive Forcefield(IMO, should be passive, but it does add to survivability of the Kol on the frontline)

Finest Hour(Been a while since I even built a Kol, honestly, because I don't feel they fulfil their role properly, but this ability increases regen times on everything I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but does it do splash damage now, or was that a suggestion I read?)

All 4 of its abilities are direct combat in one way or another, making this ship a presence on the frontline(If most of them weren't broken)  But given its damage potential through abilities, the current ammount of antimatter it guzzles, I think adding to its static damage against its primary target would go a long way towards keeping the Kol in its intended place.

Lastly, look at the battleship's possition in a fleet.  They're right there with the Cobalts and Kodiaks, both of which are also front line units.

IDK, maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way, but I haven't seen a reason why it shouldn't be this way yet.  If you can actually say why all caps are for abilities anyway, instead of effectively saying "Because they are"  I'll be glad to re-way my thoughts here, but this is how it appears to me.

-Twilight Storm

If you feel it's a waste of time, why post at all?  We're simply trying to come to some common ground so we can submit a majority vote to the devs on what we believe would make the game better.

-Twilight Storm