Strad... you're scaring me...

Why has this turned into a debate about the merits of having a wallpaper section or not? That is NOT the issue here, the moderation guidelines are NOT changing, only the way we inform people of whether their submission has been accepted or not. This is being done to spare the moderators the often unfounded personal attacks from the people who can't accept moderation. That's it! No other points were raised by Frogboy on the matter.
So, for those who don't get it, I'll say it again.... Nothing has changed except you won't get an e-mail saying your image was moderated. Simple.

i like the idea of not having walls at all, save stardock some bandwidth. Let skinners include them in WB installs or dump em on other sites like deskmod or deviant if theyre part of a quite :shrug: just looking at this thread, and frogboys comments, doesnt seem like its worth the frustration, time, or money

err typo above, should be 'if theyre part of a suite'

I know the moderators often get flamed when they moderate something, definitely not a good situation. However, every time I have had something rejected I deeply appreciated the one or two line emails about why. Those responses have definitely helped increase the quality of my submissions. I really really hope that the comments continue.

As for the people complaining about all the junk art that's up on there: I've been looking at wallpaper sites for many years, and the collection on this site is easily the highest quality (overall) collection I have found anywhere. Yes, the moderation process is often unfair, but that's life, deal with it. For those who complain about what DOES make it, yes, a bunch of stuff that I would have moderated makes it through, "brand names" always make it through whether or not they should based on quality, BUT look at the big picture and you will see that the vast majority are very good, don't ruin your day by grousing about the ones you don't like.

Well, I know it wasn't me! I've only recently began uploading wallpapers, and I'm 1-for-5. I've been doing wallpapers for 7 years. I'm not hurt by rejection. But I DO APPRECIATE the rejection emails! My suggestion: Continue the rejection-slips but send them from an un-reply-able address, and make it clear that's the case.
ANd one other thing... Take the time to stress that this this is a COMMUNITY. Some folks may not have a fewkin' clue what that means, but if they stick around long enough, maybe those of us that do can show them....

I personally believe the wallpaper section is important to this site because, it gives those of us who are just beginning to learn how to skin an "in" and a chance to participate until we can submit skins. It gives us a way and means to "interact positively" with the best of skinners. We have skills that can be immediately incorporated, thus adding to the overall goodwill of the community.

I for one am providing some unique material in the form of wallpapers and am becoming an accepted personality to the site because of it. I have met so many people through the wallpaper section that I may not have had the opportunity to meet for some time to come. As a result I feel my own life is enriched through this interaction at the wallpaper level.

All it takes from each of us is some consideration and a little understanding to realize the resources of Wincustomize are limited. I have offered to remove my wallpapers in a timely fashion in order to give others a chance to place their own, and by voluntarily doing so makes me feel even better.

Can someone just explain this for me? I noticed a lot of comments about the so called "ugly" skins working for certain people, and being "usable" for certain people. Is there no chance in hell that these "ugly" wallpapers that are rejected "usable" too? Maybe I just don't get it, but I guess that's just the way I look at it. I personally enjoy the website, and don't much pay attention to the wallpaper... I usually go somewhere else for it, because I like the way DevArt has their wallpaper's categorized. This site is still great, ESPECIALLY for WindowBlinds skins. Keep up the great work, and thanks for the great community.

Ultimately it boils down to one fact:

WinCustomize is a SKIN site. Hence we want skins. We tolerate wallpapers but reject most of them since we don't want many here.

Brad Edwards...to answer your question....'ugly' or not, all of the WB skins to date total 2109.
With strict limitations, the accepted walls total 2859, numerically larger than the WB section, even now.
If neither had any 'moderation' what-so-ever, their sizes now would be approx...WB skins 2300 [allowing some ripping/copyright issues]
Wallpapers...20 to 30,000 by now [although a few hundred would likely be the same pic of Britney's boobs].
Clearly, without moderation, Wincustomize would become just another Wallpaper site with the odd skin or three.
That is not going to happen...

I like Novagene Lyons's idea of sending out the comments from addresses that cannot be replied to.

The only thing I have to say is all those comments that are a personal attack on a skinner, please remove..... you have stressed this time after time there will be no personal attacks acceptable on this site! What I have read has been disgusting, personally attacking adni18 and others that have been named here.... and my personal opinion, skinbase.org is my home and don't like what was said here, giving a link to send your garbage to skinbase, that statement is just offensive

This thread is the biggest crock of bull crap I have ever read! Frogboy, in your last paragraph of this news post, you say, quote:

"I know this upsets some people based on the emails that our poor VOLUNTEER moderators get. But I'm going to recommend that moderation emails become rare. It's just too discouraging for our VOLUNTEER moderators to get trashed in email for trying to gently tell them why their wallpaper didn't come up. Wallpapers that don't meet our criteria will simply be deleted. We hope you understand that with hundreds of wallpapers submitted every few days that this is the only way to reasonably get through them and provide a fair way for everyone."

Do you honestly believe a statement like that will provide a fair way for everyone? I think not. Before you invoke this theory of yours, it behooves you to POST your guidelines so that ALL will know just what your "criteria" is for a Wallpaper. For without these guidelines you leave yourself and your poor moderators open for criticism. Not to mention the fact that it would eliminate the need for most of those emails.

From my observations, I see an awful lot of favoritism shown on this site. I can't help but wonder, if guidelines were posted how many of the favorite authors would make it through moderation.

I know that you will not take this post as it was meant, and for that I feel sorry for you. You will continue to run this site to suite YOUR needs and look the other way when it comes to the people that contribute so much to this site.

Buko22.
The 'criteria' is...
The Admins/moderators of this site reserve the right to determine what shall and shall not be accepted for hosting.
This is absolute and unequivocal.

Suggestion of 'favouritism' goes as far as distinguishing that some members have earned the right to post without 'moderation'.
Determining just who is granted that capability is again the sole responsibility of the 'senior' members of this site.

The line drawn 'in the sand' regarding what gets the chop is a product of [informed] opinion, and not a specific 'check-list' where you point and exclaim..."but I have no lens-flare or jaggy bevels, I demand to be accepted!!!!!!".

Buko22...
Is this perchance an irate response to a rejection?
I see you have, as yet posted nothing here.

I could, yet again post the entire philosophy behind wall moderation for those who still haven't seen it, but again, its 'criteria' are 'generalities' not exactitudes...

No frogman, I mean that you sent people a message to tell them their work has been removed/moderated. And I don't mean you have to manually do so.

For example, one could automagically sent out an email to the author of said submission when his/her thing is moderated (like in: when you click on the "moderate" button). The reply address could be [email protected] and all mail to that account could go straight into the trash (or not).

As in:
1. Jafo clicks on "moderate this crud"
2. Crud is removed and the message "Your crud was removed. Learn some skills first" is automatically sent to the author by the server in one go
3. Author sends angry mails back
4. But these go straight into the trash
5. Everyone happy (except said author)

crap, sorry about that. i have no idea what happened

It's OK, goteki....I fixed it for you...

Crae....it'd almost work that way, but 'said author' would hop gaily onto the Message Board and wax philosophical about the ills of the world and drive even more people 'nuts', not just the moderators...

This site has always had the stink of favouritism about it and operating this policy (which is news to me) whereby certain l33t skinners can upload any old crap because they're friends-of-the-frog is, frankly, insulting. You guys ever read Animal Farm - "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others". Ring any bells? So, some enthusiastic newbie uploads his first wallpaper, the moderators say "dear me, his shiny Bryce torus's aren't anywhere up to the standard we require" and it gets rejected. Then l33t-skinner comes along, uploads their shiny Bryce torus wall and the moderators say "ah yes, wave it through, its l33t-skinner, his shiny Bryce torus's are simply amazing". I'd probably get upset too.

People bitch about DeviantArt, but at least everyone has a voice there. I can click on Wallpapers>Abstract and I'll see 60 thumbnails, which is an average upload there for a day and it's immediately obvious which are the Wincustomise-quality Bryce-torus specials and which are the decent wallpapers. At the end of the day, it's just hard drive space - if a wallpaper is really that bad then nobody's going to download it and your precious bandwidth will remain unsullied. All that moderating does is say "your opinion is worthless - we know better than you". Well, sorry folks. You don't.

Crae: nice idea, but people can mail the admins anyhow. And the message board is willing too. Also BoXXi: What happened to my upload?? Why isn't it placed yet? You can get those mails and then maybe a lousy negative comment if you respond. I think a certain politeness of returning a thank you for uplaod but hasn't met admins approval to host/display is the least you can do to send to all those who take the effort to create a wall.

Dokt -

Yes, in the real world, some people are more equal than others (to carry through on your Animal Farm analogy).

Some people have access so that their uploads bypass moderation. We give that access to people who have uploaded a lot of stuff over a long period of time that we think is good and that people seem to like. It saves us time in having to moderate. Does that mean we play favorites? Yes. Absolutely.

Sooner or later people have to realize that while we ideally start out equal in life, people inevitably rise to different levels based on their merits (ideally). People don't get access here because we "like them" personally, access is based on merit.

After all, you yourself have Master Apprentice access, higher access than 99% of the users here. And are you not one of our most vocal critics? Yet you have that high access because of merit - you've created wonderful stuff and shared it with the community.

I don't care about the wallpapers. When I look at the new submissions, I want to see mostly skins. Not yet another wallpaper unless it's really really good. Similarly, when I want to find a wallpaper to use, I come here as do millions of others precisely because they don't have to sift through all the mediocre wallpapers that are on other sites. Before WinCustomize, I had to go to Digital Blasphemy to get good walls (and they charge money btw, far more than a WC subscription).

No one is forcing or even asking anyone to submit wallpapers. People upload them here because wallpapers that do get past moderation are seen and downloaded more than any other place in the entire world. That is the plus side. There is no other site, anywhere, that offers wallpaper makers the exposure they get here. So it's a pretty good trade off in my view.

And as for Adni, I agree with Chichigirl on that, whether you personally care for his stuff or not, it's very popular so obviously it wasn't a mistake to not moderate it.

Here,here!!! Well said.

I actually like the idea of my work being moderated. Coming from deviant art, i got used to submitting anything and everything. being moderated helps me push to develop a better artistic eye.

while i wouldn't send a nasty email to a moderator, i would suggest that some guidelines for the moderators be established and that they ALL should follow them.

i know that i've looked at the submission guidelines whenever i submit a piece of my own, and invariably i'll see something that has been posted that directly contradicts those guidelines...

it seems that theres no continuity in the moderating process.

BUT I LOVE IT HERE!!!!!!