how do you manage 2v2 and 3v3 fights?

why don't you watch the replay?

btw. spit+bite+aa from ub and ereb can do around 1000dps over the first 3 seconds. there is the instant dmg from spit, then the bite, then 2 tics of spit and the autoattack. in 3 seconds it is quite possible to do over 2000 dmg. don't forget that bite reduces your armor for 3 or 5 seconds.

okay so they could do 1000 dps the first 3 seconds

but they did 1500 dps the first 2 seconds

and another 1500 dps the next 2 seconds, wich made me quite dead

I probably should watch replays of things I don't understand, thx for the tip

sometimes  it feels more dps than it is. you sure it took only 2 seconds for 3000  dmg? time passes sometimes quite fast. watch the replay and things should get clearer.

didn't save the replay, I never do

well I'll start doing it now =P

if you haven't played another match after it you always have the last replay file. you can rename it o persist or watch it as is.

I have =P

Anyways, the question isn't just about that game, that game just made me think about it!

More then likely you didn't have enough armour and bite put you into negative armour which means hitpoints drop fast. I also bet the erebus had 8 nw 2 priests and seige demolishers  which all should have by level 7 which helped in the damage.

Bite increases your damage received from AA quite a bit, if Minions or Towers were around as well this would account for a significant increase in damage. Spit, plus Bite and the combined efforts of LE and UB is a deadly combination in any situation, it's not surprising they were throwing around some big numbers.

Just be thankful you weren't on the receiving end of a UB, LE and Reg Combo. Spit opener, followed by Bite, following by Fowl Grasp - at which point Reg throws mines under you while stunned - and as you attempt to retreat while slowed you receive a nice Snipe to the back, followed by another Spit to make sure you die. I cried.

the perfect time for an oak shield

Should have had plenty of armor, the ereb didn't have a lot of minions, think he had like 3-4 max all the time

but the question wasn't how they did so much dmg, well it was

but the more important question is how do you behave in those fights?

First of all, you shouldn't pick the fight unless you are confident that you can win the fight, or at least not die and make them retreat. I see that you like to play Oak a lot, which I do as well. I always focus 1 enemy at least with 2 penitence from safety before I engage the fight, and let my teammate know which DG is that. Against beast, try to use your penitence to interupt the spit, I know it's hard but if you can imagine the range of the spit, you can do. Thats makes the best very angry and vulnerable. One thing I leanred also is to never focus LE first, he has mist and batswarm to get out while his teamate is free the hit you.

You always want to foucs fire sedna first (if the opponents hav a sedna on their team), reg (because of the mines), or any other squishy DGs. For this specific game that you mentioned, I think you should have able to win any comfronation from lvl 7 and above, you have slow + increase damage, and your teammate has slow + reduced armor (and probably a stun). not to mention 2generals which means you can stack different levels of priests for more heal. You should have been able to take down that enemy UB is a matter of seconds, and watch the enemy LE bat swarm out. And you have the shield to protect you from the nasty bite. I think the most important thing in 2v2, 3v3 fights is to know which enemy the focus fire first. Once one enemy die or TP out, you WIN the fight.

we did win a few of the encounters, and we won the game

but we lost some of the encounters too =(

the problem is that one of us was death after 4 seconds, of wich 2 seconds you are stunned by the beast, it's really hard to counter that

ofcourse they had the same problem with us, but they didn't take as much dmg as we did

The beast grasp is very nasty, a stun for 2 sec can in fact turn the tide of a battle. However, as an Oak player, use your abilities range to your advantage. Make the beast suffer from penitence and Surge before you engage in melee. That's my suggestion to you and thats how I fight UB when I play Oak.

1st....bite decrease armor so u take more damage, ere can have lot of minions... so if everyone attack the same demigod u can died fast.....but if u are oak...use peni soon in battle...so u have a chance to interrupt split, bite, etc.  If ur ennemies always focus u (oak) first...use shield very soon in combat to piss them off....u will remove split+bite.

And if u dont wanna get lot of damage in 2 vs 2...use peni, run a bite....ur team mate will use split on the same demi....then...peni again and split again on the same...so one of ur ennemy will be low hp before the fight..then u engage the fight on the weaker demi.

Anyway every fight need to be take differently. Take a look on ur ennemies style and do something to counter them.

For me I play qot, and I stay at a distance while my meat shield tanks. I try to keep them fightng as long as possible.

I would say the most important thing in any fight is to work out who is going to win it as soon as possible, and if this is not possible then you need to consider wether the risk is worth it (will you gain a lot from winning it or be at a rather big dissadvantage if you loose it). Then decide to retreate or fight.

Vs LE and UB with a oak no one should be dieing for least a full sheild durration (6 secs). There is little point going minions vs either of these demigods meaing that you should have sheild 3 by level 8. Not shure if its the best move ever but casting sheild will break stuns and remove all the debuffs as well as preventing damage, the will do it again 7 seconds later but you will surive the first round with high health. I have had sucess countering this pair with Oak/rook.

The main idea in any fight is to reduce you opponants hipoints to zero or force them to retreate before they do it to you (not to just stay alive or to kill them). I would think that replacing bite with peni would be able to compete with bite as is boost spit damage, then if you sheild the demigod being target you should be able to win the damage race assuming all things are equal otherwise, its not gurrenteed but you will be able to compete.

Most important in any 2v2 or 3v3 is to focus on one target. IF fail to do that you will lose every time

I personally go for sedna/qot first to get her out of game quick, even if she retreats it gives you huge advantage over their team, next target is the lowest hp one, unless its ereb or oak - beacause both of them are good at getting out (mist, OP batswarm, shield, OP shield+teleport). If squishy one is tb, reg or low hp rook this gives you good advantage.

Save one interupt in team in case of potting, porting etc. I know its hard to coordinate that without vent(or other voice program) but even calling targets in team chat gives huge advantage.

Always rmember it profits more to stay alive, then dying getting a kill - unless u r 100% sure u die by towers after getting kill.

vs ereb/beast. Dance with them let them bite, spit you = waste their mana then run to the tower, heal with monks or pot and then go after them (when they got less then half of their mana) thanks to that u can have hope that they wont have mana for stuns or batswarm (best counter to batswarm as oak is penitence and wand of speed).  I would go of beast first as his ooze will give you constant damage. But before entering fight try to do as much ranged damage as possbile (penitence, surge of faith). also consider pulling u monks when you get half way thru your hp to ensure instant healing of you and your team mate

So like, does this work for entire matches too? Like, if you die first and realize you are gonna lose (Why can noone spell this right!?!), you can just rage and be at no disadvantage, because you can go stomp noobs now?  lol

DaBRUM

dabrum it does work for matches too

would you play a game with 2 0 games players vs 3 players with 400 games and 80% wins?

no you wouldn't because you would have lost the game before it ever started

I second:

- focus fire : a must, all teamates focus on one target; call it out before the enagement really begins.  I also find that if you have one person calling out targets it helps avoid confusion with lack of vent

- Focus on targets that are a)squishy, b)have no easy exit plan

- If things aren't working out... retreat, regroup, go again.  Only commit if you know you can win!

Add:

-  Similar to above, try and do everything you can BEFORE the battle to gain an advantage... if that's making them use up mana, then do it (dance and get spit on a bit, take a fireball or two, etc...).  If you can hit them a bit so they take dmg first, do that too.  Always try to stack the engagement in your favour... if you can get them to fight near your tower, do it....  any little advantage can make the difference.

- Don't be afraid to run early, but COMMUNICATE IT TO YOUR TEAM.  I like to put 'b' or 'back' in chat so that others know I'm retreating... nothing loses a 2v2 or 3v3 like someone on your team making it a 1v2 or a 2v3 wihtout letting everyone know.

- Also, let ppl know when you're oom or need a heal or are calling for a snipe... general coordination stuff, but its important.

Cheers,

ThanatosESC.

P.S. keep in mind I'm by no means a great player, but the times that I've had success in those 'group battles' the above things come together nicely.

Always concentrate together on one target.  Usually the weakest till he runs then focus on another if you are the target RUN!!!! make them chase you while your teammate can do the damage. Help out then when you can to turn the tide.

One thing about retreating, don't be afraid to turn when you get to your towers and drop one of your high dmg abilities.  Sometimes the sudden drop in health can force them to think twice about chasing you in... of course this is a plus/minus game you have to figure out, and if doing this would make you die where you would have survived, don't do it.  On the other hand if you're going to die anyways... try and go down fighting!

focussing on one target is rather hard, unless you're on voice chat

say you focus on the enemy reg, always a good choice

the reg runs back in range of his towers, you either have to fight at a disadvantage or change target

you change target since you'll lose with the tower there in a balanced situation, the reg runs back, do you change target again or do you keep hitting someone else?

it's really hard to plan this with a pug

i play mostly PUGs and the times that I've seen this work is with one person calling out the targets.  You innevitably end up running more and being less effecient than voice, but if you have a good player calling out targets and 2 others that listen, you can be very effective. 

Changing targets mid battle ussually is pretty hard... I tend to try and either kill or at least maim to the point where they have to go back to crystal.  In the case you describe above, I would personally do one of 2 things:

1- if he starts to run right away and he's still got lots of health (i.e. no chance of killing him) everyone back off, we'll take another run at them.

2- if he stayed a bit and we can kill him or get him near or below 500, then stay on him (as long as we're not going to lose anyone) and effectively turn back just before their towers.

(1) allows you to regroup and pick another target (even if its reg again when he comes back to battle; now they've spent mana healing him or he's lower on health which works to my points of stacking the battle in your favor in my previous post). And (2) allows you to take him out of the fight, you don't get a kill, but you've created a 2v1 or a 3v2. You then re-evaluate if you can fight (usually as you're running back to your tower) and then pick a target or heal up or push a tower if they all flee...

Again, your mileage may vary, but that is my general thinking given the situation.

The point is that you should never engage in ANY fight that you can't win.  As soon as you realize you can't win, back off and try to change the situation to one that you can win.

Cheers,

ThanatosESC.

it's pretty hard to predict wether you can win or not

the enemy could use sigils / pots / run early / run back / ...

it's hard to know how the fight is going

most fights are at mana or health flag, typically a bunch of creeps comes swarming in wich makes it really hard to see the health of all your enemies and all your allies

most ppl fail to ask for a heal / shield, you can't believe how many times I've not noticed my teammate needs a shield and didn't just ask for one!