Cow's Fire Torchbearer

You shouldn't tell people that stats are a viable alternative to the fire aura.

Try it you might like it.

If I remember correctly (remember reading it somewhere on this forum), fire torchbearer's inability to autoattack while moving was intentional.

I plan on posting a few games with the stat increase version.

NO. U DIDNT DO THIS. VERY BAD.

NOT A FULL FIRE TB PLZ. I THOUGHT U KNEW BETTER.

Full fire TB is fully viable. It's definitely competitive with the right mix.

+3 stats gives you:

345 health

.54 health per second

305 mana

.96 mana per second

6% attack speed

75 armor

18 weapon damage

+3 Fire Aura gives you:

15% run speed aura

15% attack speed aura

+30 weapon damage

So when you go stats you get:

+345 health

+305 mana

+.54 HPS

-9% attack speed

-12 weapon damage

+75 armor

+ ~1 mana per second

-15% run speed

-15% team run speed

-15% team attack speed

So basically the benefit of 3 skill points put into stats is considerably less than the benefit of a single cheap item, like unbreakable boots.

The benefits of fire aura are more comparable to an artifiact, though it's hard to compare directly because nothing really gives your team the kind of massive boost that fire aura does.

You clearly don't play with good players.

My Hybrid TB will smash this anytime...

LOL stacked is better than good players

Play your TB vs me as TB and stacked as...anything..... and get whatever teammate ya like = we win.

Cow is an exceptional fire TB. It's certainly a viable build as long as you have other player with interrupts. There's nothing wrong with full fire TB.

Cow could you add a section to your guide about how and why you can control a lane early game?Nothing annoys me more than noobs playing TBs sitting behind towers in a 1 vs 1 situation in a lane (and not form dancing).

As long as you can get yourself into a winning position early in the game fire TB is ok. somehow alot of noobs like playing fire tb and do it badly, thinking that they will still be good above level 12 or possibly lower.

I think TB all fire would be very excellent if only the fire auto attack gets fixed.

BTW you'd prolly beat me anyway because I was smart about it

Fire TB was my first DG I really enjoyed when I discovered the game. Altought I find Fire TB less effective than Ice TB or Hybrid TB, I suppose he can be viable also. Of course, during mid or end game, it's very difficult for any TB to be very efficient against any good players playing better DG like... Erebus or UB for example.

Imho, Fire Aura is far much better than Stats.

it makes no difference. ice, hybrid tb and common sense still rape full fire any day.

I have (succesfully) tried the following fire TB build :

1 save 2 stats I + aura I 3 save 4 stats II 5 fire nova I + aura II 6 fireball I 7 fireball II 8 aura III 9 fireball III 10 fireball IV

I play it with Furious blade as favor and gauntlets of brutality + banded armor as starting items. Then I stack health and upgrade the gauntlets to slayers wraps.

The idea was 'simple' :
- fire circle is good but you can easily tag all creep for gold by switching attack anyway, and fire nova is more effective once you get lvl5.
- fireball I is only 300 damage, with this build you do ~200 damage in auto attack mode from the begining, without cast time or mana need.
- TB gets an impressive mana regen end game, most of the time you will sell some mana items then. With this build and no need for early mana you can put some money in HP/armor items more easily.

But anyway, TB is really not the funniest dg to play (and this build is probably useless in pro games, I dont care since it was fun to play for 2 games :p).

A fire tb can not beat a hybrid tb in 1 vs 1 so the conclusion is that fireTB sucks?

The ability to hold a lane early comes from fire circle and level 1 fire ball. This is why its imperitive you capture a flag by yourself and kill the enitre first creep wave this = level 2 TB. Form dancing, fire circle and fireball = almost unmatched DPS in the first few minutes of gameplay. I almost always win the first 1v1 match vs any demigod with Fire TB.

You talk a lot of shit for being under 50% win.

Link to a stat build for TB. Not the best example because game didn't last and I deviated from my Build Order, but its a stat build none the less.

http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=upcoming&show=details&id=97540

Lukas plays against his premade quite a bit, I think that's why his win percentage is low.

Still, I wanna see you two go at it.

You took one point of stats, that's about 100 mana, 100 health, .3 mana per second (which is useless with BoTS), .2 health per second, and less attack speed and weapon damage than a single point of fire aura.

Fire aura would have given you and your team 5% more run speed that game, 10% if you count hte very end there where you got stats 2.

I'm not saying you can't win with non-ideal builds, I'm saying that one of the biggest team benefits of a fire TB is the group run speed and it's not too shabby as a personal benefit either. When you go stats you reduce your own damage for a paltry amount of hp, armor, and mana which you don't even use with your BoTS build.

Lemme reiterate that I'm not being hard on you or saying you cannot win with stats. I can go through any replay of mine and find no small amount of mistakes, I've been told numerous times how I can do things better.

What I'd like for you to do is give a logical explanation of how 300 health and 75 armor are better than 15% run speed for yourself, 15% run speed for your team, and 15% attack speed for your team.

-edit- Meh, I can't get my tone to come out right, I just sound like an ass here so I won't pursue this any further (the post beneath this one was written before this edit), but I stand by my criticism and I warn anyone new to DG to never, ever take stats over fire aura. It's not an acceptable tradeoff and you hurt your team by doing so.

Are you able to edit this into your guide? Only about 1 (possibly 2) in 5 PuG players of (fire) TB manage to be able to do this well. I undersand how to do this myself, but maybe not as well as i could. Unless you are wrighting this guide just for good players (in this case alot of what you say is obvious), i think short explantions how to get early lane control and take down towers would allow this guide to benifit a larger number of players.

I really dont see the point of stats, from my experence with fire TB the only 2 stats that seem to matter 95 percent of the time are DPS and speed, you always either are chasing running or kiting. The boost to team members is one of the best support effects in the game.