Judaism before and after Jesus
Continuation of a discussion at https://forums.joeuser.com/345884/page/13.
Continuation of a discussion at https://forums.joeuser.com/345884/page/13.
I thought this story might be of interest. I had problems with the photos but they can be seen by clicking:
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102119
MUCH ABOUT HISTORY
'Ark of the Covenant' about to be unveiled?
Ethiopian patriarch tells pope he will show artifact to world
Posted: June 24, 2009
9:35 pm Eastern
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
The Partriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia says he will announce to the world Friday the unveiling of the Ark of the Covenant, perhaps the world's most prized archaeological and spiritual artifact, which he says has been hidden away in a church in his country for millennia, according to the Italian news agency Adnkronos.
Abuna Pauolos, in Italy for a meeting with Pope Benedict XVI this week, told the news agency, "Soon the world will be able to admire the Ark of the Covenant described in the Bible as the container of the tablets of the law that God delivered to Moses and the center of searches and studies for centuries."
The announcement is expected to be made at 2 p.m. Italian time from the Hotel Aldrovandi in Rome. Pauolos will reportedly be accompanied by Prince Aklile Berhan Makonnen Haile Sellassie and Duke Amedeo D
"The Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia for many centuries," said Pauolos. "As a patriarch I have seen it with my own eyes and only few highly qualified persons could do the same, until now."
According to Pauolos, the actual Ark has been kept in one church, but to defend the treasure, a copy was placed in every single church in Ethiopia.
He said a museum is being built in Axum, Ethiopia, where the Ark will be displayed. A foundation of D'Acosta will fund the project.
The Ark of the Covenant is the sacred container of the Ten Commandments as well as Aaron's rod and a sample of manna, the mysterious food that kept the Israelites alive while wandering in the wilderness during their journey to the promised land.
The Bible says the Ark was built to the specifications of God as He spoke to Moses. It was carried in advance of the people and their army by priests. It was also carried in aseven-day procession around the walled city of Jericho.
The idea that the Ark is presently in Ethiopia is a well-documented, albeit disputed, tradition dating back to at least 642 B.C. The tradition says it was moved to Elephantine Island in Egypt, then to Tana Kirkos Island in Ethiopia and finally to its present site at St. Mary's of Zion Church in Axum.
Ethiopians believe it is destined to be delivered to the Messiah when He reigns on Mount Zion – the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 3:16 points to a time when the Ark will vanish not only physically, but from the minds of the people: "And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more."
The Book of Revelation says the Ark is in the temple of God in heaven (Rev. 11:19). Muslim scholars say it will be found near the end of times by the Mahdi – a messianic figure in Islam.
I find this very interesting. For one thing I knew that Ethiopia was one of the places it was thought to be. For another I'm thinking this has to do with the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. Remember Lula? I told you many times this temple will be rebuilt and it's very important to end times theology. The AC for one thing is going to sit in this temple and declare himself as God.
Now, I know the Jews have everything in place to rebuild this temple. This Ark of the Covenant would be the icing on their cake.
I wouldn't dare touch this Ark.
Let's see if this is real. Time will tell.
Yes, it is fascinating. I had a problem posting the article with the photos, but they are amazing as well.
Me too, I'd not touch that! Remember poor Oza and that he was not only struck dead but divided after he touched it?
I wouldn't dare touch this Ark.
Probably wouldn't be a good idea either. ![]()
Now, the question is, will the Ethiopian Church give it back?
Rebuilding the Temple can only be done by the Messiah (yours if he comes back, otherwise mine). But unless the Muslims (or rather the "pseudo-Muslims"*) recognise him as well, there will be trouble.
*I myself recognise as real Muslims only those people who, as the Quran dictates, accept that Israel is the home land of the Jews, even if the individual Muslim' own pride or prejudices tell him to be against that concept. In short, a Muslim (someone who submits to G-d's will) is someone who submits to G-d's will EVEN and ESPECIALLY when his own pride or interests tell him not to.
As far as Jesus, the Christ, it's not a matter of IF He comes back, but when...which no one knows when. When He does come back (His Second Coming) it won't be to rebuild the Temple. Christ's Second Coming will be at the end of the world...He'll coming in glory and to pronounce the Final Judgment of all mankind.
As far as Jesus, the Christ, it's not a matter of IF He comes back, but when...which no one knows when. When He does come back (His Second Coming) it won't be to rebuild the Temple. Christ's Second Coming will be at the end of the world...He'll coming in glory and to pronounce the Final Judgment of all mankind.
He can judge whomever he wants, but if he won't rebuild the Temple, he is not the Messiah.
now where do you get this from? The first two temples were not built by the Messiah. And the Jews of the first century were awaiting him then right? So where do you get the Messiah has to build it now?
I find that statement interesting. You know why? Because I think the AC is going to have something to do with this rebuilding...possibily....and that goes back to Daniel. The people of the prince (AC).
Many believe that when this AC comes, the Jews will look to him as the Messiah, but he's an imposter. That's what we're seeing when we read the scriptures.....Daniel, Revelation, 2 Thess 2 and Matthew 24 among other passages.
I've spent years and years researching this Leauki. This is my stronghold.
Now, back to the Ethiopians. I'm wondering how they can prove this is authentic especially since they said they've made other copies of it?
now where do you get this from? The first two temples were not built by the Messiah. And the Jews of the first century were awaiting him then right? So where do you get the Messiah has to build it now?
Each Temple was built by a Messiah (annointed king). It is logical (and predicted in Ezekiel) that the LAST Temple will be built by _the_ (ultimate) Messiah.
I find that statement interesting. You know why? Because I think the AC is going to have something to do with this rebuilding...possibily....and that goes back to Daniel. The people of the prince (AC).
I don't believe in any such being.
Many believe that when this AC comes, the Jews will look to him as the Messiah, but he's an imposter. That's what we're seeing when we read the scriptures.....Daniel, Revelation, 2 Thess 2 and Matthew 24 among other passages.
If he rebuilds the Temple, returns the Jews to Israel, and bring world peace, I'll be fine with him.
I've spent years and years researching this Leauki. This is my stronghold.
And yet you never wondered why the Jews, who have lived with the Torah for 1300 years before Jesus was born didn't even believe in an evil force and/or an anti-Christ?
Anti-Christ was originally simply anyone who wasn't a Christian. The early church at some point made him into some kind of evil spirit.
Now, back to the Ethiopians. I'm wondering how they can prove this is authentic especially since they said they've made other copies of it?
They probably can't. It's a faith thing.
He will be like Hitler only worse. Hitler was a type of AC. So wasn't Alexander the Great. So wasn't Haman. So wasn't Antiochus Epiphanes...... You will be fine with this? At first he will give you what you want. Then he will come in for the destruction. He will actually be against the Jews not for them. He will be a false Messiah but he will be heralded because no one will know at first. Read Daniel 9:26-27. He's building the temple for himself, not the Jews. He will sit in it and declare himself as God.
First off Cyrus didn't build the temple. The Temple and the walls were built by Nehemiah and Zerubbabel. About 50,000 Jews returned under the leadership of Zerubbabel to build the temple. Cyrus gave his permission and their freedom but he did not build the temple. The first temple was built under Solomon and he wasn't a Messiah either. David was refused permission by God to build this first grand temple because he had bloody hands. Solomon was chosen to do so.
So your logic is in doubt here Leauki. Where in Ezekiel are you speaking of?
Satan is in the OT. What about Saul troubled by evil spirits? Where did those come from? How about Job? The AC is seen in Daniel and you can see God addressing Lucifer in Isaiah 14, the one who wants to be God. Maybe traditionally they didn't...not sure, but biblically they believed in the evil one. They wrote about him.
and that's exactly my point. That's why the Jews will hail him as Messiah. But they will be duped. If this stuff happens in our time (and I believe it will) at least do me a favor and push this to the back of your mind...just in case. Read Daniel 9:26-27 for reference.
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These are words of wisdom KFC and good, good advice to Leauki. This much is for certain....whoever the antichrist is or whatever (system?), many will be duped.
He will be like Hitler only worse. Hitler was a type of AC. So wasn't Alexander the Great. So wasn't Haman. So wasn't Antiochus Epiphanes...... You will be fine with this? At first he will give you what you want. Then he will come in for the destruction. He will actually be against the Jews not for them. He will be a false Messiah but he will be heralded because no one will know at first. Read Daniel 9:26-27. He's building the temple for himself, not the Jews. He will sit in it and declare himself as God.
Hitler, Alexander, Haman...
G-d will not allow an evil person to rebuild the Temple. It cannot happen.
Nobody just pretends to wave the Star-of-David flag. The hatred will always come through.
First off Cyrus didn't build the temple. The Temple and the walls were built by Nehemiah and Zerubbabel. About 50,000 Jews returned under the leadership of Zerubbabel to build the temple. Cyrus gave his permission and their freedom but he did not build the temple. The first temple was built under Solomon and he wasn't a Messiah either. David was refused permission by God to build this first grand temple because he had bloody hands. Solomon was chosen to do so.
Solomon didn't rebuild the Temple either. Like Cyrus he just ordered it built and paid for it.
And Solomon was an anointed king. I think you are still unclear about how common a word "moshiach" is in Hebrew.
So your logic is in doubt here Leauki. Where in Ezekiel are you speaking of?
Try 40. I think it was 40.
Satan is in the OT.
Yes, but he has a different role than in Christianity in Islam. You (Christians and Muslims) made something evil out of the character. Judaism doesn't believe in an evil force. (Zoroastrianism does. Perhaps that is where you got it.)
These are words of wisdom KFC and good, good advice to Leauki.
She essentially told me to ignore what the Bible says.
I think it will. Cannot? Are you positive?
It will soon enough but it will be too late. It doesn't matter anyhow Leauki. Because this next temple will be destroyed just like the prior ones. The template (original) is in heaven anyway and God will bring that down during the Millennium kingdom.
Herod built much of the temple in Jesus day so much so that it was called "Herod's Temple." So what about that? He wasn't a good guy. From what I understood it took like 46 years to rebuild this temple, that some even called it the third temple, even tho it was just an enlarged temple area from Ezra's time. In other words, it was just a newer and larger second temple.
I did? ???
I think it will. Cannot? Are you positive?
Yes.
I did? ???
You told me to ignore Ezekiel 40 which says that the Messiah will rebuild the Temple.
All this is nothing other than Christian Zionism/Rapture endtime idea.
All this is nothing other than Christian Zionism/Rapture endtime idea.
Sorry it's not as logical and true as your ideas about heaven and hell and how to quote the Talmud.
No, it was different. The second temple was actually credited to Zerubbubal not Cyrus. In fact Cyrus was gone before they started the temple. Yes, Cyrus did give them building materials and decreed it, but he even said this: "Let the work of this house of God alone, let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God in his place." Ezra 5:7
"Then rose up Zerubbabel .....and began to build the house of God which is at Jerusalem and with them were the prophets of God helping them." Ezra 5:2
Actually the 2nd temple was built under Darius who pulled out the decree made by Cyrus earlier and upheld it. So the temple was built under Darius not Cyrus. Read Ezra 5 for the details. The house was finished in the 6th year of the reign of Darius the King. It was the same with Solomon and the first temple and it's very clear that it was.......if you go to 1 Kings 5:5 you'd see Solomon say this:
"And behold I purpose to build a house unto the name of the Lord my God, as the Lord spoke to David my father. Your son, whom I will set upon your throne in your room, he shall build a house unto my name."
goes on to say in Chapter 6 starting with v9....
"so he (Solomon) built the house and finished it.......and then he built chambers against all the house........and the word of the Lord said to Solomon saying, Concerning this house which you are in building..........So Solomon built the house and finished it. He built the walls of the house.......and he built twenty cubits on the sides of the house.......so Solomon overlaid the house with with pure gold........and the whole house he overlaid with gold.......so was he seven years in building it.
So while the first temple was called Solomon's Temple because he was the one who built it, the second temple was called Zerubbabel's temple. Notice the first temple took 7 years. The second temple didn't take as long...not as elaborate.
ok. I'm still on this Leauki. I remembered something else concerning King David. If you go to the Jewish scriptures 1 Chronicles 21:1, regarding something David did in 2 Samuel 21 you'd read this:
"And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel."
This is an evil force. Satan, using his evil spirit stirred David's mind to go against God in the numbering of his people back in Samuel.
no, no, no, no Leuki. You misunderstand.
The prophecy says (Daniel, Jesus, Paul, John) that during the times of the AC a temple will be constructed. He will make a pact of peace with the Jews. A few years later he will renig on this promise and will declare himself as God. Up until that time the Jews will think he's the Messiah. just like you because he's going to have a hand in this rebuilding and bring peace. Both are what the Jews are waiting for. But it's a trick.
Paul said about this time period speaking to the Christians:
"Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin (AC) be revealed; the son of perdition who opposeth and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitts in the temple of God showing himself that he is God." 2 Thess 2:3-4
In Ezek 40 that's something totally different. This is the real Temple, not the one during the time I'm speaking of. Like you said earlier, God wouldn't have an enemy build a temple right? So this temple (not the one in Ezek 40), while blessed by the Jews will not be blessed by God. So the one we're waiting for first, is not the one in Ezek 40.
Chapters 40-48 is about a vision seen by Ezekiel. It's very detailed and will be the last temple but will be in the Millennium when the real Messiah comes back. Yours for the first time, ours for the second time.
How many Temples, true or false, do you expect to be built?
We're looking for one more to be built soon in Jerusalem. I have to backtrack a bit tho from what I said earlier. This new temple in Ezek 40 is during the reign of the Messiah in the Millennium like I said. But I'm not sure if it's the same one that will be built soon and just cleansed (after the AC's declaration) or if the one in Ezek 40 is totally new. I'd have to go back and do some reading.
If it's the same, then the Jews of today most likely will go and use the chapters 40-48 as plans to build this new one and it will go into the Millennium. When the AC takes over, it's close in time, as in just before, to the Millennium anyway.
Ah, OK, that clarifies things a bit.
You know what? I think the caliphs built the mosque on top of the Temple Mount to prevent future Muslims from destroying the site.
With all the rewriting of history we see among Arab nationalists and "Muslim" extremists claiming that there never was a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem (and that the city was always Arab), I doubt the Kotel (Western Wall) would have survived if it wasn't for the Muslim holy sites propped up by it.
I know you don't agree that Muhammed and his followers followed a true religion, but perhaps you will see that whatever it was they believed was closer to G-d's truth then what radical "Muslims" believe today.
now this is interesting. Hmmmmm I'm thinking you could be onto something here. So what you're saying is that this could be the plan of God from the start to protect his holy site? I could agree with that and it does make sense now that you say it. It could quite possibly be a way to protect it. Some say, however, the true site might be directly next to it. Not sure how they can find out for sure tho.
Now, I don't think that the Muslims are God's people like I do the Jews but it wouldn't be the first time that God used the enemy to further his agenda and protect his future plans. I'm thinking about how the Jews prospered under the rule of the Egyptians for over 400 years. They went in as 70 souls and came out over 600K strong just men alone. Then under the Babylonians he used that time to punish the Jews for their disobedience and even used a few Persian Kings to help build his temple under Ezra and Zerubabbal.
The Persian kings were never enemies.
And the caliphs were not enemies either. They were not Christian or Jewish, but the Christians at the time didn't allow Jews to pray in Jerusalem. The Muslim invasion of Jerusalem was a liberation for the Jews.
I think it might be part of G-d's plan. Some people are part of His plan without knowing. Some people know. And some people even believe the wrong thing but still do the right thing because part of what they believed was true. For example, If Muhammed was no prophet, believing His words about the holy site in Jerusalem would still lead to doing the right thing.
The true site is somewhere on the Temple Mount. Jews are not allowed up there because one might walk through the wrong "room" not knowing where it is since the Temple is not there.
I also don't believe that Muhammed's followers are G-d's people like the Jews are.
I don't know if it was really only 70 people who went to Egypt. Servants and other followers are not always mentioned. At that time the Jews had a pretty solid Canaanite cultural foundation, so they must have absorbed a lot from Canaan. Remember that Abraham came from Aram Naharaim (northern Iraq or Turkey) but the Israelites in Egypt were clearly culturally Canaanite, not Akkadian.
The names mentioned in the Torah are all Canaanite, not Akkadian. However, there is an Akkadian substratum in the Torah. (The word for "I" used in the ten commandments is Akkadian, not Hebrew; and the foundation of the legal system is Babylonian.
This is very complicated and I haven't figured it out yet.


They wouldn't be from a physical standpoint but what I'm saying is that God uses enemies for his purpose and in the case of the Persian Kings they would be unbelievers meaning they didn't have a relationship with the Hebrew God. So from God's spiritual standpoint they would be considered enemies although they were supporters of the Hebrews in that they helped them.
I'm going by what it says in Genesis 46. It says this:
"All the souls that came with Jacob into Egyp wich came out of his loins besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six and the sons of Joseph which were born him in Egypt were two souls all the souls of the house of Jacob which came into Egypt were threescore and ten (70). "
So the 70 really are just the sons and grandchildren of Jacob..so not including wives and servants. They actually flourished under bondage which is very interesting and a plan of God from the start. You know God moved them there for a reason 430 years earlier with the Exodus in mind.
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