wow i like how you quoted one line there , didnt answer to what i had to say ,think i did mention that dota has no "pot of linear heros" many heroes can be played in different ways with different builds .

and well sorry for my post then mr 14yr old troll , nice of you wasting your time pointing out how i type and the edit function .

maybe you could be so kind and explain to me which heroes are alike and played in the same way ?

you sure did have the time to make a totally worthless post so i guess you have time for this  ?.

and no im not the only one wanting more heroes , and you will probably eat your words in 1-2 weeks when all demigods will have 1-2 ways of playing them if you dont yourself suck at the game .

WOW ... first of all im the originator of this post so like half the post you made is anger pointed in the wrong direction .

and the second thing is hes not trying to insult the game , hes saying that a game he has played for years could be outdone by this and he has some suggestions .

and do you want to make a starcraft vs total annihilation debate , do you think that total annihilation is better then starcraft for real ?

i love demigod , i had 6 days of from work just to play the game, and i will continue to play the game dont worry . but imo it needs more demigods , maybe im wrong , maybe im right , im entitled to an opinion.

and no i havent got tired of any demigod yet , and i probably wont for a long time to come but that doesnt make me think that the game doesnt need more demigods.

Sorry about that, fixed my post.

And I am saying that the absolute statement he made was incorrect.

Your response had nothing to do with what I said.  You introduced skill and strategy as part of the argument.  Neither of which were mentioned in the comment I quoted or my response to it.

And yes I do like TA better than SC.  Just like you think this game needs more Demigods while I think that more would be nice but not needed.

good i think we have come to an understanding , ii sure like Ta more then Sc myself as well but i dont think its the superior game , it just appeals to me .

This is to those making the stupid comparisons like:

Starcraft has around 84 units, Total Annihilation has around 250.

Using the more = better, less = worse and boring 'logic' gets the following:

Okay, I'll agree that your logic is messed up and that sums it up.  This is a strategy-based RPG game meant to use your heros to distroy the other team (whether it be by killing them off or distroying there structures).  This is not a RTS game where you actually use strategy to build your own base in order to distroy the enemy base.  Lets keep those 2 things in mind here as my reference is to the way they have this game developed currently and not your dulsional aspects of using my logic to compare 2 awesome RTS's. 

I'll be honest, yes these are 8 well developed chars and they will last a while.  But in the long run, unless they continue to develop new chars, players will get bored with what is there currently in a short time span.  The game is currently set up in a way that only those 8 playible chars can be played and each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.  I would like to see them add more chars to the game (at least 2 more) so when all 10 slots are filled up on a 5v5 game, you do not have to select a unit that has already been selected.

And those making the wise crack remarks about comparing Starcraft to Total Annihilation, I pitty you.  Starcraft was a throughly thought out and well developed RTS that was based around a smaller but much more well rounded races (not units).  That being said, I give both games very much respect because they are quality games that made RTSs what they are today.  They were never meant to be compared to other games in this type of aspect.

The game is out for only a week, and you're already demanding that they make more characters or else everyone will get bored. Do you think stardock is being run by monkeys? I didn't think they knew this. I was pretty sure they were cooped up playing dota all day, not worrying about updating Demigod.

todays modders are tomorrows developers

Yep.  You forgot about eating popcorn and drinking the whole time. 

I already know they understand this but I figured I'd enlighten those who were mocking my first post about needing more chars.  Forgive me if I'm trying to cater to those who either have to nit-pick what everybody says or just don’t understand what I’m was trying to get at with my first post.

I admit I over reacted  quite a bit, but I just saw your post as another Dota player saying Dota was better just because it had more heroes.  That is why I used TA and SC, both share a genre like Demigod and Dota do and one has around 3 times as many units as the other despite them both being very good games.  If I had thought of two other games before TA and SC that: share a genre, are both top of that genre, and have a large difference in the ammount of things to use, then I would have used them instead.

 I know Stardock and GPG have at least 2 more Demigods planned.  The neat thing is that they want to see what the community feels is missing and then add Demigods that cover that.

Now being more logical:

2 - I think other people in this thread have explained how the maps are made.

3 - Agree a little bit, but I want to point out that killing towers is a decent way to get money.

4 - Haven't played a general but I know this was mentioned in beta.  So if it was going to be changed to traditional RTS control over minions they would have done so by now.

5 - Updates details are always on the website even if they are not on Impulse.

I think we should wait a few weeks before asking for any major changes so we know for sure if we want them.

DotA has to have the most annoying players out of any current game. Please, for the love of Demigod, stay in DotA. Why?

"LOLZ GET PRO U SUX WHy DID U PICK THAT ITIM I WAN TO PLAY THE PUDGE" I don't want to see that anymore.  I want a community who can piece together real sentences, and make claims with helpful and constructive insights. 

It's one thing to bring up balance issues, bugs, and exploits.  But to DEMAND that all new crap must be added to a game or else everyone will die is, well, stupid.  But I guess you already figured the whole game out.

Hmm where to start. I guess somewhere around the fact, that if you dont like Demi-god because how it is made, you should probly go and stick with Dota. Personaly i like where Demi is at the moment with the few number of gear, It more friendly to those's that are new to it. I wouldn't mind a few more though. Dota on the other hand, i get abit over whelmed trying remember where all the peice's of gear are and what needed for differnt little combo's to make the more powerful ones.

The money system atm seem fine to me. point of the game is to kill the demi-gods and not the little NPC running around. This in term force you to go find and tear them apart. I seen a reason to change it was because some people dont have "the skill" to kill other players. As stated, point is to kill demi-gods and do what ever the objective is. It a learning process, just like in Dota. Cant avoid players all the time.

I will agree though, a Map Editor would be nice to see. Perhaps in the style of WC3 where it can be modded so game play is differnt, gear can be added and ect. Also a few more Demi-gods wouldn't hurt at all, that way there a lower chance of running into the same type of characters. (I ran into 2 them crossbow guys, granted my team ripped them apart, be nice not to see that.) Perhaps a small lock, like when it picked it cant be picked again on one team.

All Stardock needs to do is relase a simple PDF documenting the map file. The modders will take care of the rest. Stardock then needs to occassionally review some user created maps out there and add them to the offical list - like Valve does with TF2.

The big question is: Does Demigod allow for the lobby system to distibute user maps within the P2P without having to go through Impulse?

Otherwise you should have at least a contest every few months and let modders compete for map submission. Set up a beta lobby and allow players to vote on the top 3.

Modders and free content updates/additions are the only thing that will keep Demigod alive during the second coming of Starcraft. Demigod has great potential but Stardock needs to nurture it like Valve embraces TF2. Otherwise gamers will just move on. It all depends how dedicated you are to your userbase. For example: I will buy anything Valve produces even if it was a game of monkeys flinging fecus, just because of their dedication to the evolution of the product and customer base. The real sales of Demigod will come from word of mouth and keeping its interest alive over the long term.

My responses to 2-5 are much less harsh than my response to 1; be warned...

As I've said before, thoughtful comparissons to DotA can greatly help DG. However, this criticism is tired and poorly thought out.

First of all, DotA has been out for years. DG has been released for a less than a month. DotA did not have 90+ characters upon release. Secondly, DotA's characters did not have the flexibility of builds that DG's characters do. Thirdly, I would rather have 8 well-balanced charaters than 90+ horribly balanced characters, which is exactly what we would have if DG were released with that many characters. Do people just not realize how difficult character balancing is?

Lastly, and what everyone who makes this argument completely ignores, is the fact that NEW DG CHARACTERS ARE BEING DEVELOPED AS WE SPEAK. There are previews of them in other threads, and GPG HAS PROMISED NEW DLC CONTENT IN THE FUTURE.

Again: THE GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD. Enjoy the current cadre of characters, and SOON NEW CHARACTERS WILL BE RELEASED.

If you are already sick of the 8 current DGs, you either need a prescription for Ritalin or you need to do something else with your life, like enjoy the outdoors a little or get a job or girlfriend/boyfriend..... or any friend in real life for that matter!!

On the other hand, I agree with this. I certainly hope that along with a map editor, a full set of development tools will be released so that the community can make its own maps and content.

In reality, the interesting 3D backgrounds are perhaps a liability, as they may make community development of the game more difficult?

I personally tend not to agree with this so much. I will concede, however, that the lower level creeps should probably yield more gold in order to make the early stages of the game go a bit faster.

Yeah, minion control should be tighter and easier. There should also be more prominent data displayed on the types and numbers of minions you have as well as their health.

Change logs on Impulse itself would be very nice.

I don't know if this has been brought up but fog-affecting terrain would be nice, obstacles that you could go up or down, things that obscurred vision, etc. would be one of the best things to implement from the dota community, so many skilled players can relate/attest to the fog chases or jukes that are so enjoyable and which also help the hero vs hero dynamic as well.

I'd also really love to see more abilities that weren't just DMG+Slow / Neg effects / Proc chances, I'd like to see innovative combat changing abilities that would affect the finer points of that fast action quick combat, Torchbearer has some of the coolest concepts as far as combo's go but he still seems to fall short as an independant hero where as other heroes can be stand alone and still do the same things that he would like to. <- Off topicish. Basically I'd like to see abilities that were dependant on player made decisions within the duration of the said ability, things like rupture or dreamcoil from dota, where, while under the effects the player could make split second decisions.

OK, to sum it all up.

1) Map Editing:

While it would be nice to be able to build your own custom maps, I think we can all agree that at least for a while, the amount of maps we have is already enough. There is no current "Map Editing Tool", and there will not be one unless the developers drop everything for a considerable amount of time. Furthermore, players would almost never have the same attention to detail as the developers. So at least for now, perhaps we could move on to the other points? We can always come back to asking for an editor. We've got at least a couple years.

2) Hero Selection:

While there are only 8 heroes, each have several builds which add different varieties of gameplay. DotA heroes DO in fact reuse skills (Nerubian Assassin and Lion have the same stun spell, with different damage and stun duration, if I recall correctly), and more importantly usually revolve around a single combo (with the exception of characters like Invoker and Omniknight). We will be getting more heroes, and hopefully we can expand on it in the future (remember how many there were in the original DotA? Not 90+, I'll tell ya that.)

3) Item selection:

I definitely agree on this point, items need a lot of work. But they're much easier to create than heroes, and I hope to see an increase in the future, as I'm sure many people do.

4) The Money System:

A lot of people have complained that the 'creep' waves do not give enough money in comparison to hero kills. However, bare in mind that this is an incentive both for hero killing and flag capturing. If creeps gave the gold of a hero kill every time you wiped out a wave (as in DotA, assuming earlygame and no streak), there would be a vast imbalance in the speed of farming, and it would make players more reluctant to capture points when they COULD be farming creeps. Further, it would make people far less likely to capture spawn points, which is key to victory. Over all, I believe that the game runs smoother with creeps playing a minimal role in terms of gold aquisition. The idea that a player who cannot kill another player is going to "fall behind" fails to recognize the fact that such characters have more dominance over lanes. Being able to kill a wave quickly, ninja a flag, and move to the next, can be key to Warscore, which is far more important than gold imo.

5) The DotA players can keep their elitist game:

You wound me. We aren't all assholes you know, and it's actually quite an enjoyable game if you take the time to master it. I think there are many things which demigod should consider that can be found in DotA. Just not -everything-.

Why is this post neccessary? I really don't care about Dota, never played it. This is the demigod forum.

And why do you think people want 80 freakin' characters? I'd rather have what demigod has, 8 chars that all play differently. And oh yeah, DG better never get over 20 demigods. Since blizzard made WC3, you should probably email them and tell them to add more races to Starcraft 2, like 80 more. That way there's more selection, cuz it's apparently impossible to have a great game with few choices right?

If it feels bland, quit. We don't wanna hear about it. It really isn't constructive and you're comparing DG to a game it was never trying to be.

In the end, if you play demigod, and just don't get it.....Oh well. Cuz there's a lot of us who love it just like it is.

I'm in a bad mood now, I'm gonna go have some cookies.

I disagree.

         Adding too many heroes and many maps that are very randomized makes the game less accesible for new players and takes away from the strategy element and adds to who knows about all the different maps and character elements.  

  In addition you run the risk of throwing balancing out the window.  A couple carefully implemented and thurohly tested demigods is ok but imo not needed as doing so doesnt add any extra strategy to the game.    

A simillar discussion is taking place here.

Side note: I find it interesting when DotA players complain about a small amount of content considering DotA has exactly one Map.

I was really waiting for someone to mention this.  You have my gratitude, good sir.

wow are we up on bashing on dota again .. so many people who doesnt grip it all , ill just quote you and say that that 1 map , gives more varied gameplay then all 8 maps in demigod , so plz , dont shoot yourself in the foot.

people saying that dota chars is linear and only have 1 build are wrong , its all based on circumstances.

and tbh demigod will have the same items builds/builds in a couple of weeks from now , where 1 build is the norm and the other builds are depending on the situation or crap.

its not a bad game , its not the same game , but stop saying dota is bad , or dota is less then demigod or has less nice players cause the truth is you just make yourself look like idiots to people that know a thing or two about games.

rant out

nothing is randomized in demigod even if they have 50 demigods they wont be randomized they will be thought through .

adding more heroes will give more strategy to the game inform of picks/counterpicks viable strats and so forth.

adding maps will give different setups different possibilities on each map , so in a tournament the choice of maps might show as a strong strategic element.

balancing 50 demigods isnt impossible it just takes time.

and just because its more demigods doesnt make the game harder to get into if they get rated matchups going , then its just gonna be more fun for the new players to learn everything while they climb the ladder , and casual players can rejoice as they have more of a variety when they play

when did we need to bring math in the discussion , have you actually played the map , it has a lot more strategy and depth in it the all dgs maps which are pretty straight forward have 2 -4 juke spots a piece and almost no mapawareness is needed, god your making a fool out of yourself.

and once again you prove to us that you know nothing of dota, its very VERY rare that you reach maximum level in a dota game with people who know how to play , if your not playing em , which is not the standard gameplay.

and its most certainly a build you work at when you level up , getting 1 more points in stats before for example cleave can be the difference between win/defeat , its way more complex then the casual dota players or the players who havent played it think.

and demigod was released now with a lot of time put into it , and there are certain skills which i would never take , which are put there as fillers for people who cant play , usually there aint that much of a difference in how you build your demigod, there are many different builds and most of them suck.

the 8 demigods which have way more depht are gonna be just as "shallow" as the dota heroes you talk about.

so what did you search on ? the first post of dota/dota community has nothing to do with it being bad/shallow or people being douchebags , and using a huge number when talking about google is also retarded whatever you search on you get 250000000 hits. no use in trying to intimidate with that

More kindling for the fire...

In short: Demigod isn't DotA. DotA is based on Warcraft III: an already outdated game with horrible graphics.

Demigod is better, Demigod has more maps, Demigod is more thoroughly developed and will continue to be improved!

Demigod is a standalone game with its own unique heroes and everything. Demigod will rule the world!!! *cough*