Green. What does eye color have to do with anything?

Lula posts:

CharlesSC posts:

That's correct, only God is perfect and only His ideals and rules are absolute and therefore truth.

Perhaps I wasn't clear and so if you'll notice the part I highlighted shows that those ideals and rules I try my best to operate under and follow are God's absolutes, His rules and ideals, not my own.

You've come to the wrong conclusion for following God's fixed, absolute standards has nothing to do with me thinking highly of myself. I'm just stating where I get my standards of right and wrong from and it's from those that I judge others in a very discriinating fashion.

As to God's absolutes versus every type of opinion that comes blowing by, I'll offer the following for consideration:

"Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit; but try the spirits if they be of God: becasue many false prophets are gone out into the world."

"Thus says the Lord: Stand ye on the ways and see and ask for the old paths, which is the good way, and walk ye in it, and you shall find refreshment for your souls." And they said, "We will not walk."

"And I appointed watchmen over you saying, Harken ye to the sound of the trumpet." And they said, "We will not harken."

As I understand this, those who said they will not walk or not harken don't want to be under God's absolutes. Would someone who follows this advice be considered close-minded?

Sorry where in that bible quote does it mention the word 'just'?

The Holy Bible contains hundreds of quotes with the word "just". Here's a sampling from both the Old and New Testament.

Genesis 18:23, of those in Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asks God, "Will thou destroy the just with the wicked?"

Exodus 9:27, Pharao said to Moses and Aaron, "..I have sinned this time also, the LOrd is just and my people are wicked."

23:7, God tells Moses the laws for judges, "The innocent and just person thou shalt not put to death, becasue I abhor the wicked."

Deuteronomy 1:16, "And I commanded them, saying: Hear them, and judge that which is just; whether he be one of your country or a stranger."

4:8, "For what other nations is there so renowned that hath ceremonies, and just judgments, and all the law, which I will set forth this day before your eyes?"

16:18, "Thou shalt appoint judges and magistrates in all thy gates, which the Lord thy God shall give thee, in all thy tribes, that they may judge the people with just judgments."

Proverbs 8:15, "By Me, kings reign, and lawgivers decree just things."

13:5, "The just shall hate a lying word, but the wicked confoundeth, and shall be confounded."

St.Luke 12:57, "ANd why even of yourselves, do you not judge that which is just?"

St.John 5:30, "I cannot of myself do anything. As I hear so I judge and my judgment is just becasue I seek not my own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

Apocalypse 16:7, "And I heard another from the altar saying, Yea, O Lord God Almighty, true and just are thy judgments."

Sorry I'll try again, perhaps my question was a little complicated.

Where in the quote '"Submit yourself to every ordinance of man" is the word just?

You do not have to disobey any law just because it is not just. However, if the laws of man go against the Law of God, then the Law of God takes precedence.

But the law of god is to obay any and all laws.  Going against the 'ordinance of man' is itself going against the law of god.

There are 613 laws of God according to the Torah.  Do you follow each one? I doubt it. I, for one, do not and would not wish to live in a society governed by biblical law.  Neither would you, I'm sure.  We do not live in a theoracy, thank God, but we do have civil law for a civil society.

OK, this is more clear.

This, btw, is not even an exact biblical quote but it's close enough for this discussion. The answer to your question is no, the biblical quote doesn't contain the actual word "just". Re-read my reply and you'll see that I'm describing the meaning of the passage.



Btw, the entire passage of Romans 13 is 7 verses. Does anyone want me to quote it?

They're brown right now, 'cuz you're full of crap.

Or, I think that's what was trying to be said to you. I don't necessarily agree with anything except that it's a really good way to say that without saying it, and I thought I'd come ruin it by saying it.

On the contrary. The Law of God is the Law of God. The Law of God tells us to obey the laws of man, except where the laws of man violate the Law of God.

It is actually Peter 2:13 '"Submit yourself to every ordinance of man...'

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/obeylaw.html

or

http://www.biblegateway.com

'Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men:'

And you quote different parts of the bible none of which appear to conflict with these versions of the same thing which say nothing about just laws, in fact they quite clearly state 'every' law must be followed.

 

 

Thank you So Daiho.

Romans 13 is God's admonition on proper behavior and the attitude we must take towards civil authorities.

It doesn't necessarily mean a recoginition of every form of civil authority completely without regard to the details of its constitution. The main point is that we are to recognize the existing authorities as given by Almighty God.

It's a Christian's proper starting point knowing that God being the Author of the social order created man as needing to live and develop within a community. Among the things owed to authority are: honor, respect, reverential fear, and the payment of taxes to contribute to the services which allow citizens to live in peace and security which protect them from violence and civil disorder, and which guarantee them a more civilized lifestyle. By acting this way, Christians are keeping our Lord's commandment "to render to Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and to God the things that are Gods."




Ha, history has shown the ancient Israelites sure had a hard time doing so!

There is no qualifier to that passage that I can find.  Please tell if there is one.   It doesn't not say 'apart from the following', it says all.

Agree....now apply that to Proverbs:

Proverbs 8:15, "By Me, kings reign, and lawgivers decree just things."

and that to Romans 13:3:

"For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad"

Let's cut to the chase....How does the legalization of abortion square with this?

The problem is that man no longer listens to God's Law. Instead of interpreting God's Law, we have had to write our own, and interpret it. Therefore, we now have many laws contradictory to the Law of God.

If the king makes an unjust law then he is going against god's law but it is still god's word that people obay it.

Assuming that it does not violate God's Law, yes. If the king were to make a law that required contradiction of God's Law, then it is the people's responsibility to disobey it, though not to rebel or riot, merely disobey. See the story of Daniel.

Sorry, you still haven't explained to me where in the passage from Paul there is that option.  There is nothing in there about 'Assuming that it does not violate God's Law'.

In Jewish Law, at that date, there were many laws just assumed by the Pharisees to gain some sense of holier-than-thou power for themselves. Therefore, it was unwise to make a statement there since the actual knowledge of God's Law was repressed.

However, if you study God's Law, there is no contradiction between it and any law that is not a gross violation of human rights.

Sorry but are you saying that the bible isn't the exact way god wanted it to be but was actually influenced by what was happening at the time?

oh. How about 'Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.'

Basmas posts: #33



Okay. Thanks for citing St.Peter 2:13 which as you have already noticed goes along with Romans 13.



For sure. Christ taught the obligation of conscientious fulfillment of civic duties. St.Matt. 22:21-22; 17:24-27. and this is what St.Paul echoed in Romans 13: 1-7. Therefore, I seriously doubt that St.Paul meant that Christians must obey whatever a given ruler commands. Romans 13:5 tells us that citizens then are bound in conscience to obey...accordingly the responsibility of the rulers is clear. When citizens are under the oppression of a civil authority which oversteps its competence, it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against abuses of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the law of the Gospel.

If we think back, the early Christians defied their rulers when ordered to renounce Christ, and also, Christians disobeyed the Emperor refusing to honor them as a god. They all ended up being honored as martyrs for their disobedience.

You may seriously doubt what he meant I thought that we had to go by what he wrote otherwise we open up the entire bible to interpretation