SH80 SH80

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.

I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.

Preach on, Ghandi. I'm with you, brother.

I spent the other evening in what would be considered a “traditional” church. After having attended a “traditional” church the previous week (after getting bottlenecked in unusual Sunday morning traffic, thus missing the opportunity to walk in late as usual to my not-so-traditional church where people don’t stare at you in disapproval if you walk in late wearing jeans with holes and open-toed sandals), I’ve now been in a “traditional” church twice within a week’s time, which is two more times than I have been in such a setting in over a year and two more times than I care to have been in that time span.

 

Sitting in the service, which was complete with the traditional bowing of heads and raising of hands during the “alter call” to “come to Jesus,” I thought back upon my memories that had been emblazoned in my mind of those similar calls to be “saved.” This happened to be in a setting where a number of the attendees were not affiliated with the church in which I sat (including myself). As I looked around, I wondered what others were thinking. I’d played this game of church before. I knew what they were talking about; I just didn’t buy into it for I’ve been scarred by those same people that told me they cared about me and loved me in Jesus name.

 

Ghandi once said, “I like your Christ. I don’t like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Preach on, Ghandi; I’m with you, brother.

 

As I sat in the service, I thought back to a story I heard of a church (from the same staunch denomination of the church in which I sat the other night) whose pastor asked a fellow to dress as a bum and loiter in the auditorium and the foyer of the church to see people’s reactions to his presence in an attempt to get the congregation to recognize their intolerance of said bum and to demonstrate how they should treat such an individual with the love of Christ. When all was said and done, the church was relieved to find that this was a “regular” churchgoer, and that their displays of indifference or intolerance wouldn’t go past the walls of their church or the walls of their hearts.

 

As I pondered this story, I considered this a dramatic portrayal of the lesson of indifference and intolerance and acceptance of people whose exterior is different from their own. But I paused and wondered how those same people treat bums who look like everyone else on the outside, but are bums on the inside. Where is the line of tolerance evident in such cases? I find that much like ignoring the panhandlers on the side of the road, churches often ignore the inner-bum of those such as me. The disdain of the church looks down upon such bums as the church preaches that all sin is the same in the eyes of God, but live in a dramatically different fashion when faced with reality.

 

Case in point, me. I am a bum. Oh, I don’t probably look like one from my outer shell (although to some, that would be up for debate; but as I told my daughter, God doesn’t care what you wear (to church), He cares that you go and live according to how He did…besides, didn’t He wear sandals?). It is inside my core that I am a bum.

 

Most bums have experienced some kind of life-altering experience from war to alcoholism to financial loss to loss of family to loss of mental abilities, etc. and the list could go on and on. Let’s just say that I’ve my own life-altering experiences, one of which includes divorce, an experience that left me wandering. Nah, I didn’t stand on the street corner, but I wandered nonetheless.

 

During that process, I watched those from my past whom I had loved, nurtured, supported, encouraged, etc. over the years turn to me with disdain. Instead of reaching out in love, the people whom had called themselves my “church family” turned in disapproval and looked upon me with disdain. There wasn’t a reaching out in Christ’s love. WWJD was just a trinket of jewelry worn to outwardly proclaim their faith, not a reminder to act out of faith as Jesus would. I received messages and mail calling me names such as a “fool” and “idiot.” When I was in their presence, I felt as those who had leprosy in Biblical times.

 

But, if sin is sin in God’s eyes, as I was preached on so many occasions throughout my life, including the other night, how does the church body justify gossip? Or, if I confide in a pastor in confidentiality, and he turns to tell another, is this deemed acceptable? Somewhere in the book he uses says that a “gossip betrays a confidence” (Proverbs 20).Or consider my personal favorite, “concerned” church members calling aloud someone’s name and alleged sin(s) so that that individual can be prayed for by the congregation…how is that not slander? Every bible I’ve read lists gossip alongside murders (see Romans 1). Come to think of it, slander is also included in the Romans 1 list of “no-no’s” right alongside thieves.

 

Yet people who call themselves Christians rationalize their measure of the severity of sin based upon their own set of values, which is structured upon a continuum of wrongdoings weighted heavily by the sins that they themselves believe they are incapable of committing and ignoring the weight of those that they do. Thus, gossip in such a system isn’t nearly as bad as say, murder. (Although I am certain that I could argue that gossip can be every bit as destructive as murder.) Consider giving false testimony. It isn’t as bad as taking the Lord’s name in vain, is it? Or coveting your neighbor’s house/belongings? That isn’t as bad as adultery, right? Not on a humanly designed continuum. However, if I recall, in God’s system, each of these are listed equally. (If you disagree, go reread the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20).

 

For now, let’s keep the continuum theory and offer another similar theory such as “Christians should pick and choose what they wish to follow in the Bible.” That statement would be viewed as heresy in Christian circles. However, this clause is lived out daily in the lives of so-called “good” Christians.

 

Well, I’m a bad Christian.

 

I want to be like Christ, but I’m a bum. And if you’re a bum too, I’m good with you. There are lots of us. There are even examples of us bums in the bible. God even called some of them, such as David, an adulterer and a murderer, a man after His own heart. While I strive to be like Christ, I will NEVER attain his stature. So thank God for people like David, because he was a bum too; and I like bums. So did Jesus. He hung out with the bums far more than he did those self-righteous religious people whom he couldn’t stand. He even once called them (the super religious people of His day) “son(s) of hell” (see Matthew 23). I’m thankful for my fellow bums who have the foresight to recognize that they don’t have all the answers or the “right” answer or the “church” answer for everything (as if anyone could have the audacity to explain God anyway). I’m thankful for those who said to me, “I don’t know what happened, and I don’t care. You are my friend, and you always will be. You are always welcome.” Come to think of it, those words came not from those in my church whom I devoted a great portion of my life, but from those not in the church…people who the church probably thinks are bums…my friends…and fellow bums.

 

I’m with you Ghandi, I like this Christ fellow. He knows I’m a bum, but He loves me anyway. It’s those Christians I don’t like so much.

13,272 views 38 replies
Reply #26 Top
There's a million stories like that, FS. It's sad, because it's a testimony that may have changed lives in the future that now doesn't exist at all, because instead of the church helping to save a marriage, it just did... nothing.
Reply #27 Top

I'm new here and just happened across this post. I AM a Christian, and I completely agree with you. Our so-called churches grow more worldlly and thus less Christ-like every day because they are often no longer Christ-centered, they practice "religion", rather than Christianity. They've probably never read James 1:26-27

Jam 1:26   If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his {own} heart, this man's religion is worthless.
Jam 1:27   Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of {our} God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, {and} to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Like you, I am SO grateful for the examples the Lord gave us of men like David, Balaam, even Judas. Why? Because they show 2 things........God is in control of every situation (Gen. 50:20 and Rev. 17:17 come to mind), and most importantly perhaps, I am already forgiven for those sins through the blood of Jesus Christ.

I hate to admit, sometimes I feel that I identify much more with Jonah than Joseph! And oh how thankful I am that the Lord STILL loves me when I too sin. It's that love that accepts me as a sinner, because I could NEVER get to be acceptable enough to deserve His love on my own.

I guess I'm rambling........I liked your post very much. Bottom line is.......denominations and tradions are man-made. If one wants to know what it means to be Christ-like, look to Christ ;) Read the Gospel and see how simple it is! It doesn't require incense, fancy upholstery or even a building to attend!

A good Bible-based church is hard to find (we've looked for years) and yet it is a worthy quest. It is invaluable to be part of a group of like-minded believers.........but the minute it starts being more world-like than Christ-like I'm OUTTA THERE!!!!!!!!

 

Reply #28 Top

I agree with LW.  It seems that since the format change, things have just gone downhill around here.

I don't like the new format.  JU isn't a site I enjoy visiting anymore; it's getting to be a chore.

Reply #29 Top

I know of what what you choose to show EVERYone here - not just me, EVERYONE.
End of quote

You do know?  Know what?  I asked you particulary Dharma what I did to offend YOU?  You did not answer me.  Why?  Is this a hard question? 

Don't bring EVERYONE into the conversation.  Just tell me what I did to offend YOU to have you react in such a vulgar and angry way.  Where is this coming from? 

I really would like to know.  I do agree with you.  We are oil and water but I have never accused you, attacked you or hardly said a word to you these last two years so it's not coming from me. I don't even visit your blog.   Usually  our conversations between us is me   asking you these same questions with NO answer or idea what is setting you off so. 

Reply #30 Top
PS- An "R" rating on a movie simply means it's for adults, not that it's sinful in some way. Fekkin morons.
End of quote


What's amusing to me is that excessive violence is enough to get a movie an "R" rating.

I remember this one movie where this guy had a friend at his house, and the police came for his friend. Thinking fast, the first guy says "No no no...why don't you guys go gang bang my daughter instead...let my friend be, whatever you do." That movie got an R rating, I think.

Oh wait. Duh. That wasn't a movie...
Reply #31 Top

I asked you particulary Dharma what I did to offend YOU? You did not answer me. Why? Is this a hard question?
End of quote

Here we go again.  You never, ever answer any questions, but you want to be explain myself to you, to answer you. 

I'll do it. Not because I feel like I owe you one, but because I want you to shut up and quit with the 'poor pitiful me; see how I am being persecuted for my faith' bull-poo act.

You offend me every time you open your sacntimonious mouth and tell the world what a great christian you are (yes, you DO do that).  You offend me every time you behave as if you are the be all and end all when it comes to christian knowledge.  You empitomize what your book of faith describes as a 'pharisee', and that offends me too.   You take others to task for their actions - see your first comment on this thread if you need further explanation - yet you excuse your son and daughter in law's premarital FORNICATION and the child it produced by saying that they got excited and decided to celebrate their engagement a little early. C'mon, KFC. You and I both know that that's highly unlikely; that they were in all probability going at it like rabbits and just happened to not take as much care as they should have.

When are you going to get a clue and see that it's NOT everyone else that's the problem, it's YOU? 

Would you like some help removing that plank from your eye?

 

Now that I've answered your questions, I want you to answer mine: why do you feel the need to wear your faith like some kind of badge?  I don't want scriptural answers or what you think your god wants you to do, I want YOUR answer. 

Reply #32 Top

 

I remember this one movie where this guy had a friend at his house, and the police came for his friend. Thinking fast, the first guy says "No no no...why don't you guys go gang bang my daughter instead...let my friend be, whatever you do." That movie got an R rating, I think. Oh wait. Duh. That wasn't a movie...
End of quote

LoL. The daughter was a virgin, too, wasn't she? And the police didn't want to arrest the friend, they wanted to cornholio him.
End of quote

Hahahahaha!

What are you talkin' about?  That's as wholesome as can be?

:NOTSURE:  Right? 

~Zoo

Reply #33 Top
The Bible - rated "R"
Reply #34 Top

The Bible - rated "R"
End of quote

Or XXX with a prostitute's recollection of Egyptian donkey-like dongs(Ezekiel 23:19-20)...and David's wedding dowry of Philistine Foreskins. (1 Samuel 18:25-27)

Now that's what I call a Sunday morning service!

~Zoo

Reply #35 Top
Now that's what I call a Sunday morning service!
End of quote


I just watched a video of a 1992 sermon about Jesus turning over the tables, and that God's house shall be called a house of Prayer... was very good. It is a very strange picture of Jesus to see him whipping people with cords in order to get them out of the temple...
Reply #36 Top

Amazing post, honestly too often far too often I've had other christians contemplate my loyalty my cause and my purpose. I have cowered before other believers and let them critisize me, mock me and make fun of my wrong doings. Yet they are the same way, vulnerable to temptation, violent thoughts and the like. I have seen people around me turn away from the Lord and for some with good reason. I don't believe turning away from the Lord is the answer for me though. With all due respect to what people think of my faith due to the poor example us as you call it "bums" or "christians" have toted around... I made the choice. I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and I spoke out. No matter how young no matter how old, we will always have a choice that revolves around consequences. I chose whats right, I believe my choice is right and that's all that matters. No matter what God you believe in no matter what faith you have, the fact remains we were all given a choice between right and wrong and even if it's not apparently harmful to others but is still wrong and you make that choice, it (the choice) would be yours to make.

To reitterate there are choices to be had, good or bad you make them and while some choices that do not immediatly harm others may be wrong they are your choices to make and despite the choice you should be respected as a human being able of that dignity that choice and that power to govern yourself accordingly. Just because I am a believer and believe my faith is the right path does not mean I will ever try to rationalize a fundementalist way of thinking involving fire and brimstone preaching or brute force. It's even biblical that we were all given a choice, and judgement day is not today nor the day ahead of us, for that time is not chosen by us; mankind alone.

Reply #37 Top

Here we go again. You never, ever answer any questions, but you want to be explain myself to you, to answer you.
End of quote

What questions?  You never ask me questions.  You show up, blast me out and hightail it out.  That's why I refer to you as a hit and run.  You don't stick around long enough to have a conversation.  This is the best it gets right here.

I'll do it. Not because I feel like I owe you one, but because I want you to shut up and quit with the 'poor pitiful me; see how I am being persecuted for my faith' bull-poo act.
End of quote

Shut up?  Ok.  That makes sense.  That's exactly what I believe too.  I think you're being honest here.  That's really what this is isn't it?  I never, never, never go out to pity parties.  What I do, is ask you and whomever questions like .....why are you so angry?  Why so vulgar towards me?  Why the animosity?  Why the attacks?  That's not the same as saying I'm looking for pity.   I'm just trying to get you to see that you're going off the point and getting caught up in emotion and rather than attack an issue, you attack the person.  Nothing about pity.   Why would I want pity?   It's not like I don't expect this reaction to my beliefs would happen. 

You offend me every time you open your sacntimonious mouth and tell the world what a great christian you are
End of quote

Exactly.  I know I do.  So what's the answer?  Shut up?  Where exactly have I told the world I'm a great Christian?  I've never professed that.  I don't even believe there is such a thing as a "great Christian."   I talk about my faith all the time.  Yes, it's part of who I am. Just like you write about things that say who you are.  I can't separate myself from my faith like the politicians say they do. 

So it's ok for you to offend me with your anger and vulgarity against me but when I talk about my faith on my blog it offends you?  Something's wrong here.  Do you see it?  I never ever go on your blog.  Ever.  I never ever try to engage you in coversation because I know how you feel.  I let you be.  I respect where you are.  So be it.  I don't bother you. 

Now that I've answered your questions, I want you to answer mine: why do you feel the need to wear your faith like some kind of badge? I don't want scriptural answers or what you think your god wants you to do, I want YOUR answer.
End of quote

That's your opinion.  I am who I am.  I'm a Christian.  I have a very strong faith. It's not an outward faith, it's coming from within.   Like I said, I can't separate myself from my faith.  It's a part of me.  I don't push my faith onto you Dharma.  Where is your tolerance and belief in free speech here?  Even here, don't you see you're putting limits on my answer? 

 

Reply #38 Top

That's your opinion. I am who I am. I'm a Christian. I have a very strong faith. It's not an outward faith, it's coming from within. Like I said, I can't separate myself from my faith. It's a part of me. I don't push my faith onto you Dharma. Where is your tolerance and belief in free speech here? Even here, don't you see you're putting limits on my answer?
End of quote


Some people sound more laid back than others while some have a stronger personality. If anyone thinks you to sound like you'r talking out of a textbook then they shouldn't continue reading your posts KFC :P