I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.

Preach on, Ghandi. I'm with you, brother.

I spent the other evening in what would be considered a “traditional” church. After having attended a “traditional” church the previous week (after getting bottlenecked in unusual Sunday morning traffic, thus missing the opportunity to walk in late as usual to my not-so-traditional church where people don’t stare at you in disapproval if you walk in late wearing jeans with holes and open-toed sandals), I’ve now been in a “traditional” church twice within a week’s time, which is two more times than I have been in such a setting in over a year and two more times than I care to have been in that time span.

 

Sitting in the service, which was complete with the traditional bowing of heads and raising of hands during the “alter call” to “come to Jesus,” I thought back upon my memories that had been emblazoned in my mind of those similar calls to be “saved.” This happened to be in a setting where a number of the attendees were not affiliated with the church in which I sat (including myself). As I looked around, I wondered what others were thinking. I’d played this game of church before. I knew what they were talking about; I just didn’t buy into it for I’ve been scarred by those same people that told me they cared about me and loved me in Jesus name.

 

Ghandi once said, “I like your Christ. I don’t like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Preach on, Ghandi; I’m with you, brother.

 

As I sat in the service, I thought back to a story I heard of a church (from the same staunch denomination of the church in which I sat the other night) whose pastor asked a fellow to dress as a bum and loiter in the auditorium and the foyer of the church to see people’s reactions to his presence in an attempt to get the congregation to recognize their intolerance of said bum and to demonstrate how they should treat such an individual with the love of Christ. When all was said and done, the church was relieved to find that this was a “regular” churchgoer, and that their displays of indifference or intolerance wouldn’t go past the walls of their church or the walls of their hearts.

 

As I pondered this story, I considered this a dramatic portrayal of the lesson of indifference and intolerance and acceptance of people whose exterior is different from their own. But I paused and wondered how those same people treat bums who look like everyone else on the outside, but are bums on the inside. Where is the line of tolerance evident in such cases? I find that much like ignoring the panhandlers on the side of the road, churches often ignore the inner-bum of those such as me. The disdain of the church looks down upon such bums as the church preaches that all sin is the same in the eyes of God, but live in a dramatically different fashion when faced with reality.

 

Case in point, me. I am a bum. Oh, I don’t probably look like one from my outer shell (although to some, that would be up for debate; but as I told my daughter, God doesn’t care what you wear (to church), He cares that you go and live according to how He did…besides, didn’t He wear sandals?). It is inside my core that I am a bum.

 

Most bums have experienced some kind of life-altering experience from war to alcoholism to financial loss to loss of family to loss of mental abilities, etc. and the list could go on and on. Let’s just say that I’ve my own life-altering experiences, one of which includes divorce, an experience that left me wandering. Nah, I didn’t stand on the street corner, but I wandered nonetheless.

 

During that process, I watched those from my past whom I had loved, nurtured, supported, encouraged, etc. over the years turn to me with disdain. Instead of reaching out in love, the people whom had called themselves my “church family” turned in disapproval and looked upon me with disdain. There wasn’t a reaching out in Christ’s love. WWJD was just a trinket of jewelry worn to outwardly proclaim their faith, not a reminder to act out of faith as Jesus would. I received messages and mail calling me names such as a “fool” and “idiot.” When I was in their presence, I felt as those who had leprosy in Biblical times.

 

But, if sin is sin in God’s eyes, as I was preached on so many occasions throughout my life, including the other night, how does the church body justify gossip? Or, if I confide in a pastor in confidentiality, and he turns to tell another, is this deemed acceptable? Somewhere in the book he uses says that a “gossip betrays a confidence” (Proverbs 20).Or consider my personal favorite, “concerned” church members calling aloud someone’s name and alleged sin(s) so that that individual can be prayed for by the congregation…how is that not slander? Every bible I’ve read lists gossip alongside murders (see Romans 1). Come to think of it, slander is also included in the Romans 1 list of “no-no’s” right alongside thieves.

 

Yet people who call themselves Christians rationalize their measure of the severity of sin based upon their own set of values, which is structured upon a continuum of wrongdoings weighted heavily by the sins that they themselves believe they are incapable of committing and ignoring the weight of those that they do. Thus, gossip in such a system isn’t nearly as bad as say, murder. (Although I am certain that I could argue that gossip can be every bit as destructive as murder.) Consider giving false testimony. It isn’t as bad as taking the Lord’s name in vain, is it? Or coveting your neighbor’s house/belongings? That isn’t as bad as adultery, right? Not on a humanly designed continuum. However, if I recall, in God’s system, each of these are listed equally. (If you disagree, go reread the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20).

 

For now, let’s keep the continuum theory and offer another similar theory such as “Christians should pick and choose what they wish to follow in the Bible.” That statement would be viewed as heresy in Christian circles. However, this clause is lived out daily in the lives of so-called “good” Christians.

 

Well, I’m a bad Christian.

 

I want to be like Christ, but I’m a bum. And if you’re a bum too, I’m good with you. There are lots of us. There are even examples of us bums in the bible. God even called some of them, such as David, an adulterer and a murderer, a man after His own heart. While I strive to be like Christ, I will NEVER attain his stature. So thank God for people like David, because he was a bum too; and I like bums. So did Jesus. He hung out with the bums far more than he did those self-righteous religious people whom he couldn’t stand. He even once called them (the super religious people of His day) “son(s) of hell” (see Matthew 23). I’m thankful for my fellow bums who have the foresight to recognize that they don’t have all the answers or the “right” answer or the “church” answer for everything (as if anyone could have the audacity to explain God anyway). I’m thankful for those who said to me, “I don’t know what happened, and I don’t care. You are my friend, and you always will be. You are always welcome.” Come to think of it, those words came not from those in my church whom I devoted a great portion of my life, but from those not in the church…people who the church probably thinks are bums…my friends…and fellow bums.

 

I’m with you Ghandi, I like this Christ fellow. He knows I’m a bum, but He loves me anyway. It’s those Christians I don’t like so much.

13,270 views 38 replies
Reply #1 Top
The key is to take your eyes off what other people are doing and look to yourself, and the Bible. Comparing yourself to other people, or worrying about what other people may or may not be doing, is not going to help anybody. It is much more important to examine yourself by what the Bible says. When Satan accuses you, and he's right, agree with him. Don't try to justify yourself. Stand up and say, yeah, I am a bum. But Jesus loves me anyway, and I can't be any more than a bum without him.

I think you've got some good points, in here. There's a whole bunch of image management going on in churches these days. Break through that, and we're all bums. And we can't really be used by Christ until it's broken through.
Reply #2 Top

Now this is a good article. :D

I love that quote, by the way...still so relevant today as it was then.

~Zoo

Reply #3 Top

While I hate churchianity myself and have seen it even very recently here in my new surroundings I also know that we should do all things for the glory of God, whether we eat, drink, dress or sleep.  All for his glory, not ours. 

While you have said some true things it all comes down to the heart.  If, you're dressing as a bum to test those around you or to challenge people what is that saying?  Aren't you just as bad?  Look at me....if you don't like it tough?  Some just like to rebell just to try and prove something....sometimes it's not to go to church at all and use the disapproving looks as an escape chute.  

Now if you go to church in your very best holy jeans then that is totally different.  You're not going to worship in a challenging or rebellion mode but to truly worship God.  Only God knows the intent of the heart.  You shouldn't worry about what men think anyhow. 

I agree with Jay. It's all about focus.  We go to chuch for two reasons.  One is to worship God and the other is to encourage his body.  If we're looking around at others as Peter did John ("what about Him?")  we've totally missed the point and that is NOT pleasing to God. 

There are plenty of Christians who could care less about what others are wearing (I'm one of them) so why group "all Christians" together?

I can see tho, that you have been hurt by those who profess Christ around you and for that I'm embarrassed for the body of Christ.  I'm sorry for the hurt you experienced at their watch.  Perhaps you can look at this like a test.  We all get tested and from what you write here, perhaps they did not pass the test?  God gave them a chance to minister to you and they failed.

Keep the focus tho.  Don't look at man and get bitter.  Keep your eyes on Christ. 

 

 

Reply #4 Top

While I hate churchianity myself
End of quote

'Suse my profanity, SH80.

You have GOT to be fucking kidding me, right?  That has to be THE most hypocritical statement I've ever heard you make.  You have to be the most pompous, self-righteous phariseeic 'look at me, aren't I such a great Christian?!?' churchianist I've ever had the mistfortune to come across.  The fact that you can't fucking see that for yourself speaks VOLUMES.  VOLUMES.

YOU are the kind pf person he's complaining about.  YOU.  YOU are the kind of person who makes going to church a miserable fucking experience. 

You and your version of god can fuck right off.

SH80, thank you for an informative and enjoyable article - I'm right there with you brother.  Thank you for your comment on my article; I appreciate and value your advice.  Come back anytime!

Reply #5 Top
'Suse my profanity, SH80.
End of quote


No need to apologize for profanity, dharmagrl. Hell, I've been prone to say a few choice words myself...and that ain't no shit!
Reply #6 Top
Hell, I've been prone to say a few choice words myself...and that ain't no shit!
End of quote


Fuck yeah!

:P

~Zoo
Reply #7 Top

Dharma,

You don't know a thing about me.  How can you be so bold and vulger in your assessment of me?  Am I lying?  Absolutely not.   I get the fact that you don't like me.....ok I get it.  You can stop now.  Again, I'll ask you what have I done to you to warrent such an outburst?  I've had very little interaction with you for this kind of behavior.  

Can you just tell me, what I have done to offend YOU?   Would you do that in a civil manner for me please?  Because other than calling me names and blasting me out, you've never said what the heck I've done to offend you. 

Nice Zoo......(:(

 

 

Reply #8 Top

Nice Zoo......
End of quote

What?  Just joining in on the swearing...nothing about that in the Bible far as I know.

I'm not joining in on Dharma's assessment of you if that's what your thinking.  That's her business and her's alone.

~Zoo

Reply #9 Top

What? Just joining in on the swearing...nothing about that in the Bible far as I know.
End of quote

That's what I was referring to and there is something in the bible so can I educate you on this....:P .....just a couple that come to mind. 

"Let no unwholsome words come out of your mouth." 

"For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."

Don't worry Zoo......I still like you.......:you're still cool.......HOT:

 

 

Reply #10 Top

Quoting KFC, reply 3
If, you're dressing as a bum to test those around you or to challenge people what is that saying?  Aren't you just as bad?  Look at me....if you don't like it tough?  Some just like to rebell just to try and prove something... 
End of KFC's quote

I think you missed my point here altogether. Somehow, you mixed my analogy of the individual invited by one church on one occassion to appear as a "bum" in his outward appearance to that of my own inward nature. My style of dress has nothing to do with "testing" those around me. But to address the issue you suggest, it has been my previous experience that one had to dress a certain way to be deemed worthy of attending church. I sat in a church meeting once where it was debated what was appropriate attire. I no longer choose to be a part of such an environment. Not so long ago, my daughter had a dress to wear, but she had left her dress shoes at home. I told her the quote I mentioned in my piece, "God doesn't care what you wear (to church), He cares that you go." She was happy wearing her bright pink Crocs and I was content that she didn't feel as if she couldn't go...for the church I attended (at the time) could care less what you wore...which is one of the reasons I liked it so much...they weren't bound by the legalism of a dress code. Had she been faced with the same dilemma in the aforementioned church, she wouldn't have been encouraged to go...over SHOES! Personally, I don't dress to challenge or "test" as you suggest. I find it liberating to come "just as I am" wearing sandals and jeans to church (when I go)...even holy jeans (pun intended).

Quoting KFC, reply 3
Perhaps you can look at this like a test.  We all get tested and from what you write here, perhaps they did not pass the test?  God gave them a chance to minister to you and they failed.Keep the focus tho.  Don't look at man and get bitter.  Keep your eyes on Christ.
End of KFC's quote

Doesn't this statement serve as an example of "churchianity" in and of itself?

Just a thought for consideration...I don't really have the wherewithall to ask...I've got this huge log in my eye, and I'm trying to remove it before I'm able to point to the specks in another's eye.

Reply #11 Top

Ooops...the prior comments were made by me, SH80, not lobsterhunter...she was still signed in...my bad!

Reply #12 Top
I like your story. Sorry for your loss (marriage).

Good luck.
Reply #13 Top
SH-80, good article indeed.
A recent CNN survey was fairly informative. Unfortunately, I haven't looked deeply enough into it to speak for its veracity, but reading it, I see no hidden agenda that would cause someone to make this stuff up. Here's an excerpt:

The Roman Catholic Church has lost more members than any faith tradition because of affiliation swapping, the survey found. While nearly one in three Americans were raised Catholic, fewer than one in four say they're Catholic today. That means roughly 10 percent of all Americans are ex-Catholics.

The share of the population that identifies as Catholic, however, has remained fairly stable in recent decades thanks to an influx of immigrant Catholics, mostly from Latin America. Nearly half of all Catholics under 30 are Hispanic, the survey found.

On the Protestant side, changes in affiliation are swelling the ranks of nondenominational churches, while Baptist and Methodist traditions are showing net losses.

Many Americans have vague denominational ties at best. People who call themselves "just a Protestant," in fact, account for nearly 10 percent of all Protestants.

Although evangelical churches strive to win new Christian believers from the "unchurched," the survey found most converts to evangelical churches were raised Protestant.
End of quote


Were I to wonder why these stats show what they do, I'd imagine it's largely due to the very thing you describe - the preponderance of "Christians" are just hypochristians. The arguably most dogmatic of denominations - Catholics and Baptists - are seen as "behind the times" in the supposed modern world we live in. I say "supposed" in quotes like that because I think we're way less modern than we give ourselves credit for - but that's another thread.

Other possible reasons for these stats is that Christianity today, as a group ethic, shows more and more signs of "in group" morality and "out group" hostility. In other words, if you agree with a group's beliefs, they more readily receive and accept just about anything you say. Contrarily, if you disagree with their beliefs, you might find it hard to get them to agree that the clear sky appears as a shade of blue. This mentality is readily apparent in discussions between members of different religious beliefs (or non belief as the case may be) but as your story of the guy dressed like a bum in church shows, it is infectious even down to the clothes we wear, the music we choose to listen to, the people we choose to associate with, and even - the syllables we choose to utter when angry at someone.

One would think "tolerance" would be a positive commandment to include in the Big Ten. Seems like that would fall in line with the "Love thy neighbor" stuff of the NT. Numbers 15:32 is a good example of the kind of tolerance biblical old Testament dogma teaches. And New Testament dogma which pretty much states that the omnipotent God, in order to pay for the "original sin" had to first sacrifice himself (his son - whatever) to torture, humiliation, and subsequent death instead of just omnipotently forgiving them, isn't much more logical or easy to swallow than the idea that it's right to stone a man to death for collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Were I to find anything redeeming in the bible at all, it would be that once upon a time, there was a man, or a God (depending on what you believe), that wasn't afraid to buck the old system and do things a new way. That was Ghandi's Christ, of course. A likable fellow indeed. By the standards of his day, I'm sure he was a bum, too.

Whether it is caused by your favorite Satan character, or reason, the old way of thinking has yet again been outgrown, and it's likely time that it got a face lift or at least a new marketing strategy if it intends to survive at all.

As for your inner bum, I'll just say this. I am not a believer of anything that has a group associated with it, (though my "ways" of thinking have been labeled as "Buddhist-like" by other Buddhists and I have often described myself as such since people relate better to labels they can look up), but you're welcome in my world, holey/holy sandals and all. I'd rather share a cup of coffee with a genuinely humble person of ANY faith than a hypochristian any day of the week (and yes - twice on Sundays.)

Sorry for the ramble...have a great day :)
Reply #14 Top
You don't know a thing about me. How can you be so bold and vulger in your assessment of me?
End of quote


I know of what what you choose to show EVERYone here - not just me, EVERYONE. It's a vulgar assessment for a couple of reasons: a) It's who I am and how I talk and b) you pissed me off with your uber-churchist attitude so I thought I'd be myself and talk to you as I would if you were in my living room, face to face with me. I've never claimed to be a 'nice' person; I'm a bitch and those who REALLY know me agree and are ok with that.

As usual, you are reverting to your original (and typically born again christian, I might add) tactics: when confronted, cry persecution or harrassment and say it's because of your faith.

*Yawn*. You bore me.

The fact that you totally missed the point of the article amuses me. YOU are the kind of person he's complaining about, but you didn't get it! HAHAHAHHA! Oh, that's hilarious.



Reply #15 Top

Quoting OckhamsRazor, reply 15
As for your inner bum, I'll just say this. I am not a believer of anything that has a group associated with it, (though my "ways" of thinking have been labeled as "Buddhist-like" by other Buddhists and I have often described myself as such since people relate better to labels they can look up), but you're welcome in my world, holey/holy sandals and all. I'd rather share a cup of coffee with a genuinely humble person of ANY faith than a hypochristian any day of the week (and yes - twice on Sundays.)Sorry for the ramble...have a great day
End of OckhamsRazor's quote
And you are welcome in mine...I admire your genuineness and willingness to have an open mindset. Great comments and interesting article. Coffee...I'm on my way to grab a cup...too bad we haven't the time to converse over said cup.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting dharmagrl, reply 16
It's who I am and how I talk...so I thought I'd be myself...I've never claimed to be a 'nice' person; I'm a bitch and those who REALLY know me agree and are ok with that.
End of dharmagrl's quote
I love it...real...honest...self-aware...and perfectly fine with you as you, which is A-OK with me! Stay real.

Reply #17 Top

"Let no unwholsome words come out of your mouth." "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks."
End of quote

Unwholesome is such a subjective word. :)

~Zoo

Reply #18 Top
too bad we haven't the time to converse over said cup.
End of quote


Hey, I have time AND coffee. Distance is all relative, and besides, that's what IM programs are for.

([email protected] and ariadne1669 for Yahoo IM)
Reply #19 Top

As for your inner bum, I'll just say this. I am not a believer of anything that has a group associated with it, (though my "ways" of thinking have been labeled as "Buddhist-like" by other Buddhists and I have often described myself as such since people relate better to labels they can look up), but you're welcome in my world, holey/holy sandals and all. I'd rather share a cup of coffee with a genuinely humble person of ANY faith than a hypochristian any day of the week (and yes - twice on Sundays.)
End of quote

By the way, AMEN to that, my friend. :D

~Zoo

Reply #20 Top

I think you were a little out of line with your profanity towards KFC, Dharma.She is the Christian she is and no-one can change that.

I personally find a lot of Christians are hypocrites believing that they are closer to God and condemning those who are not. However, when you think about it, many non-Christians are just as hypocritical. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a perfect World--unfortunately Homo Sapiens is one of the most imperfect animals on the planet.

Reply #21 Top
If a church wants to require its attendees to dress a certain way, shouldn't they be giving people suitable clothing to wear in order to not bar someone based on income? Should they be helping the people who come to get jobs, get educated, assist them in any way possible in order to meet their needs and make them able to not only buy their own clothes, but buy clothes for the next person who walks in in holy jeans?

I figure, do all that, but don't require the dress anyway. Help people where they are, build them up to what they can be, by the power of Jesus Christ. We need to ask ourselves, as churches, why we're not doing that. Why someone would only have holy jeans to wear to church. Why isn't something done about it?
Reply #22 Top
I personally find a lot of Christians are hypocrites believing that they are closer to God and condemning those who are not.
End of quote


The point I was trying to make is that if a Christian is out there comparing how close to God they are to others, they will simply get further away from God, because in the end, there's only 2 types of people - those with God for eternity, and those without God for eternity. While we're here, we need to be worrying about ourselves - how close WE are to God, and how to get ourselves closer so that we can do His work for others.
Reply #23 Top
The point I was trying to make is that if a Christian is out there comparing how close to God they are to others, they will simply get further away from God, because in the end, there's only 2 types of people - those with God for eternity, and those without God for eternity. While we're here, we need to be worrying about ourselves - how close WE are to God, and how to get ourselves closer so that we can do His work for others.
End of quote


Oh come on...it's not fun when you start talking reason. ;)

~Zoo
Reply #24 Top
I think you were a little out of line with your profanity towards KFC, Dharma.
End of quote


I don't.

She is the churchist she is, and I am the bee to the itch I am. We're like oil and water, we don't mix and I'm really not interested in a whole lot she has to say; I rarely visit her blog. I will not, however, keep my mouth shut when I see blatant hypocrisy on someone else's thread.

Just as you are entitled to your opinion and she is entitled to hers, I am entitled to mine - and until Brad tells me different, I'm going to be who I am and use profanity when I want to. If you don't like it, don't read what I write or listen to what I have to say.

It's really that simple.
Reply #25 Top

A very thought provoking and truth-ridden article!  Made me smile! ;)

 

A relative of mine who is a Christian and was an enthusiast member of his church along with his wife and kids.  Came to realise what hypocrits his pastor and useless church people were when he wanted help and ministering because of the problem he and his wife were having.  They were all in denial and made him feel awful and left out and he walked away from them.  neanwhile his cheating slut of a wife is still with them and singing the name of Jesus and living in the same manner without recrimination or guilt.  Go figure!  I'm answeable to God as a child of his and a Christian and no one else, not to a church of people who don't know how to live like the saviour they worship!