Sodaiho Sodaiho

Two Messiahs

Two Messiahs

Oh my...

Good Morning Everyone,

 

This morning at synagogue at Breakfast Club after morning prayers, we held a discussion of the differences between how Christians understand as the Messiah and how Jews view the Messiah.  Goodness, what a list and with such deep differences. 

 

I found that language was a core problem.  Defining terms shared by both faith traditions was an absolute must otherwise people could be greatly mistaken thinking that they had actually been understood when they had not. Moreover, the list on the Christian side was essentially unverifiable, verses the complete verifiability of the Jewish notion.

 

Take the notion of "savior" for example.  In Christianity, the term addresses a personal savior from sin and eventual (if not immediate) redemption by God.  In Judaism, the term has no otherworldly connotations, nor is it personal.  A messiah is a savior of the whole nation.  Moreover, savior means nothing more than a person who stops war, poverty, and other forms of human suffering.  One cannot verify that one is "saved" in the Christian sense.  One can, however, verify if poverty and war have ceased. So, from our POV, we were much more pragmatic.

 

Our resident fundamentalist was a great help in our understanding of a Christian view, although we do have one other Christian who attends on a regular basis (he is from a small Christian church that seems to be somewhat panentheistic in its POV.  So there was some divergence of Christian perspective.  In our group we have  one neo-Orthodoxer, a few Conservatives, and two Reconstructionists, but most of us are Reform.  So, the discussion was lively and very interesting. 

 

In the end, we decided that a Messiah was crucial to Christians but not to Jews.  They should keep theirs and we will continue to work with God to make the world a place the Messiah would wish to come.

 

Be well.   

5,618 views 35 replies
Reply #26 Top
KFC,
Thanks for showing SC's true colors....he thought he hit a fast ball home run and you caught it and tagged him out..
SC,
making assertions about religion and then refusing to back-up those doesn't cut it...your face might be pretty, but right now it has mud all over it..
This discussion is posted on a relgion forum....why are you done talking religion?
End of quote





SAN CHO #9
I had a large response written about how, according to KFC's Bible (since we know that's what it takes with her) we are, in fact, partners with God and can actually be saviors of a type ourselves.
Never mind, it's not worth it. It would be like pounding my pretty little face into a gigantic brick wall.
End of quote


KFC Posts:
Show me in scripture where it says we can be saviors ourselves SC.
*sitting back....gotta see this one.*
End of quote



KFC Posts:
You don't seem to answer the hard questtions SC.


SC posts: Like I said, banging my pretty little face into a brick wall isn't something I like to do on a regular basis, sister. So I abstain.

Or;

It's not fair for major-league heavy hitters like myself to go up against peewee pitchers. You're askin' for a shiner.

I'm done talking religion on this forum.
End of quote


------------
Reply #27 Top


SAN CHO posts:#9
I had a large response written about how, according to KFC's Bible (since we know that's what it takes with her) we are, in fact, partners with God and can actually be saviors of a type ourselves.
Never mind, it's not worth it. It would be like pounding my pretty little face into a gigantic brick wall.
End of quote

----------------

KFC Posts:
Show me in scripture where it says we can be saviors ourselves SC.
*sitting back....gotta see this one.*
End of quote



You don't seem to answer the hard questtions SC.

------------------

SC posts: Like I said, banging my pretty little face into a brick wall isn't something I like to do on a regular basis, sister. So I abstain.

Or;

It's not fair for major-league heavy hitters like myself to go up against peewee pitchers. You're askin' for a shiner.

I'm done talking religion on this forum.
End of quote


------------

Lula posts:
KFC,
Thanks for showing SC's true colors....he thought he hit a fast ball home run and you caught it and tagged him out..

SC,
making assertions about religion and then refusing to back-up those doesn't cut it...your face might be pretty, but right now it has mud all over it..
This discussion is posted on a relgion forum....why are you done talking religion?
End of quote


----------------

ASAXYGIRL,
Regarding your post #32...

and LW re: #25 comments "rabidly close minded, bigoted, superstitiious and irrational" and #35...

You two have to get a grip on reality and unjust judgmentalism if you think KFC's challenge to SC to defend his assertion and my subsequent comments regarding same are prideful, gloating, "unChristian" and "ugly" behavior.

Any objective person can see that we were playfully and civilly teasing (using his own metaphors) San Cho for exiting the discussion without backing up his assertion.

In a debating discussion, there is absolutely nothing unChristian about challenging someone to back up their own words.

Bottom line:

KFC said #20, "It's much easier to take a hit at me than to back up their own staements with facts." This I fear is the object lesson and sorry truth of this discussion....and unfortunately we've seen this happens time and time again that rather than add to the topic at hand by support or refutation, it's senseless and unpleasant name call and "bash" the messengers..

When the discussion is redueced to this level, other JUsers looking in tune it out just as fast.

Reply #28 Top
I'm sorry for this double post "mess". I'm having a difficult time getting used to the sensitive touchinstead of the mouse.
Reply #29 Top

Again, you do not know me nor do you even try.  I do NOT dislike you nor do I feel I attacked you.  You just won't admit that you constantly and consistently come after me no matter the forum. 

If you want a good discussion fine.  No problem.  That's not the case.  You don't stick to the subject but rather pick out something I said going after my motives and intentins when it's not even close.  Cae in point:

She seems to feel that So Daiho should have blacklisted me here, and since he didn't, she's blacklisted me from her blog. Go figure.
End of quote

I have never asked, mentioned or even indicated that I wanted So Daiho to kick you off his blog.  "She seems to feel" is your feeling....not mine. 

So could it be that it's really YOU who HATES me LW?  Isn't that the real truth.  I don't have a shred of hate in me....honestly.  I can't take the time.  Frustration?  Yes.  Hate?  NO. 

If you can tell me that you can lay off the attacks and stick with the discussion I'll gladly take you off my BL. So it's up to you.  I don't want to have to dread seeing your logo on my site when I turn there and that's exactly what I feel when I see you there.  I know it's not a good reason you're there.  It never is. 

Lula and I are in complete agreement on many things so not sure how you can separate us like you do other than the fact that it is YOU who hates ME.   

 

Reply #30 Top
asaxygirl posts # 32:
I don't see the "Christian bashing" on JU that you claim to experience. If you only want people to agree with you, pat you on your back for your insightfulness and essentially cosign your way of thinking, go post where there are only people of like mind as you. The richness of experience and perspective brought from every person in these threads is beautiful. It is sad that you seem to interpret disagreement or the challenge of supporting you claims as bashing.
End of quote


I've re-read all your posts, #'s 15, 26, and 32. Where in any of them have you addressed, added to or refuted the substance of the comments regarding the original forum topic? Instead, as I read it, all you do is join in the pile up against the Christian messenger. Surely, you can see this. So Daiho has and cautioned to play nice!

So Daiho asks KFC in post # 29 to show him that she's here to learn...but seems unable to understanding that it's no fun discussing when one's opponents would rather attack the messenger than discuss the substance of the topic.





Reply #31 Top

KFC Posts:

If you can tell me that you can lay off the attacks and stick with the discussion I'll gladly take you off my BL. So it's up to you.
End of quote

Bravo KFC.

Reply #32 Top

Lula and I are in complete agreement on many things
End of quote

 

Quite true. However, defending Christianity, the Word of God and being in the world and not of the world seems foolish to some. 

Reply #33 Top

Just keep my name out of your mouth as you do, and we'll get along just fine.
End of quote

So do as I SAY but NOT as I do?   Gimme a break LW.  Even you can see the hypocrisy in that statement.

Enough said.  I'm thru...once again. 

Lula glad to see you back on JU.  Hopefully your computer will be fixed soon for good.....:LOL:

 

 

 

 

Reply #34 Top
Enough said. I'm thru...once again.
End of quote


So explain to me how I'm asking you to 'do as I say, not as I do?'
End of quote


Nah, LW wants more discussion, thus this question.


Lula glad to see you back on JU. Hopefully your computer will be fixed soon for good.....
End of quote


Thanks....still no word from the shop. They've long fixed the actual computer problems ...now it Turns out they DIDN'T make backup documents as I insructed....Grrrrrrrrrrr!
Reply #35 Top
Interesting article So Daiho.

I am in agreement with you on several fronts. There is a difference in Judaism in comparison to Christianity on the notion of Messiah. Christianity would be nothing without their Messiah where as Judaism stands to only benefit from a Messiah.

While I see that Jesus is the Messiah bin Joseph (The servant Messiah found in Torah and Tanakh) I disagree with doing away with Judaism in reference Torah observance.

Does your synagogue use the Masoritic texts?

I had the opportunity to join a Reform synagogue in Baltimore, MD during Shacharite prayers. Following we had a round table discussion. Not sure if this is the same as you were doing there?

Shalom