Intellectual and Cultural Events Journal

I was able to attend Professor Hubbs' lecture this morning, and while I could not hear all of it, I did hear and mostly agree with his comments on loyalty. I had never thought of it this way, but loyalty does disclude everything that is not agreeable with the thing you have loyalty towards. In answer to Professor Tatter's question of whether Auburn fans disrespected or disagreed with Alabama fans, it all depends on their degree of "loyalty". Because I am not a big fan of football in general, I do not understand it, but in my past experience, I have learned that Alabama fans hate Auburn fans for the most part, and vice versa. I think that by respecting and agreeing with the fans of another team, it is almost as though you support them in some way, and supporting a big rival means you aren't true to your team. I think this is unconsciously present in everything we do.

Another thing that I agreed with but had never noticed before, was what Professor Hubbs said about a community. He said a community wasn't the area that you were in, but a connection between its members. I had never thought of it in that way, and when I did, I realized he was right in most ways. Some of his examples were religious communities. The Muslim community has come together because they are all Muslim, not because they live on the same street or area. While I agree with that, most of these communities do center about an area. The Muslim community in Birmingham is a community because they are the Muslims that are in this area of town. The academic community of this school comes together for the academics, but also because they are all HERE. There is no location that defines them, but a location that involves them.

In this morning's lecture, I believe that those of us who attended were all brought to the realization that loyalty to one group automatically means disregarding others. When I used to think of loyalty this perspective of it never came to mind. I never tended to think that there was a good and a bad side of loyalty. I agree with Professor Tatter that the subject of loyalty was the most closely related idea to our class readings. Loyalty to one's race may not be a bad thing; it just depends on how extreme you are in supporting your race and if you go to the extent of thinking of someone else's race as being below you. One of the most definite example of loyalty that I have noticed in Alabama and the southern U.S. in general is a loyalty to religion. Even from an early age, the majority of southerners have a loyalty toward religion. I grew up in Air Force bases throughout Europe until I moved to Alabama when I was seven. The two environments are very different. When we moved to Montgomery, I kept wondering where my friends would go every Wednesday night and Sunday morning. Religion wasn't a heavy influence on base-housing, or in my family. I remember in fifth grade my class got on the subject of religion; and someone asked me what religion I was. I told them I didn't know, and then found them all giving me wierd looks and going silent. Some of them didn't talk to me for the rest of the day. Looking back on it now, it's easy to see that I was on the other side of their loyalty. The loyalty they had towards religion disregarded me for not having one. It is easy to see that when someone with loyalty to one thing meets with someone with loyalty to a conflicting thing there may be conflict between the two people. It all depends on how loyal you are to your own group, and if you exclude or think negatively of other groups. Disregarding someone and excluding someone are very different.

I was sitting in the back of the auditorium today during Dr. Hubbs' lecture and had a very difficult time hearing what he had to say. I was able to pick up on bits and pieces of it, and I did hear some of his discussion on loyalty. I had never thought of loyalty as having a potentially negative side. To me, loyalty has always been a great thing. I considered it very admirable to be loyal to your school, your community, your family, your religion, etc. I do agree that being loyal to something does make you biased towards its counterpart, and that can be a good or bad thing. I also think that the degree of loyalty has a lot to do with it. I am an Alabama fan, as is my entire family, but I do not hate Auburn fans. I do not particularly like Auburn football, but i do not dislike the people who do like it and neither does my dad who is definitely a much more hardcore Alabama fan than I. Religion is a much more touchy subject. I have lived in the south my entire life, and religion, mostly Christianity, is a huge part of life here. By nature, religion is an exclusive thing. I do not know of many religions that believe that their way is right, but so is everybody else's. I am a Christian. I have grown up in the Episcopal church and have been very active there since I was a small child. I believe that I my religion is the only right one and the only way to Heaven. That is what I have been taught, that is what the Bible says, and that is what I believe. Christ is the only way to Heaven, and in that sense, I guess Heaven would be an exclusive community. But there is a difference between disagreement and disrespect. I may not believe that Islam, Buddhism, or other religions are right, but that does not mean that I disrespect or dislike the followers of them. I still think that loyalty is a positive thing, but I understand that like most things, it can be taken to extremes. There are a lot of things i consider myself loyal to and am proud to be a part of, and while I may disagree with those whose loyalties lie in different places, I sincerely hope that my loyalties never cause me to look down on those different than myself.

Like Haller, I too was sitting in the back of the auditorium on the floor and was not able to hear everything Dr. Hubb's had to say. The main things he kept mentioning that i continued to pick up on were Gone With the Wind, loyalty, and Greensboro, Alabama. Sadly, i was unable to piece these three ideas to gether so i was a bit lost during his lecture on his writings. In response to Dr. Tatter's question about the loyalty of football fans and their regard to the opponents, I have been around and experienced the disrespect that Alabama fans have toward Auburn and vice versa. If my family heard me yell "ROLL TIDE", they would disown me. I beleieve that the degree of loyalty one person may have and how extreme they are with it basically depends on the individual. One person may go to any extreme to be as disrespectful and rude as possible about whichever football team. If anyone has experience an Auburn v. Alabama game, you know where i am coming from. Both sides of fans get a little ridiculus. I do agree with Haller when she talks about religion. There is a very prominent difference between dissagreement and disrespect towards others beliefs. I am also a Christian. I have been raised in a Christian atmosphere my entire life and I believe that the acknowledgement that Jesus died for our sins and that he is the son of God are the building blocks one needs to be accepted into heaven. This does not mean that i condemn any other religious beliefs, i simply disagree. Heaven may be exclusive, but every one has the choice of whether or not they choose to agree with this belief.

I really enjoyed Professor Hubbs presentation today. I thought the comparison to Gone With the Wind was very humorous and interesting. However, it did make me think about loyalty in a different way. I don't think that loyalty to a certain school means that you have to degrade another school. I mean, I am loyal to BSC but that doesn't mean I think UAB or UofA are bad schools. I would certainly come to the defense of my school if someone tried to say something negative about it though. I am not involved in a Greek organization, but I have heard girls in certain sororities talk bad about other sororities. I think everyone just wants to believe that they are involved in the best group or school or whatever. Loyalty to my church goes a little deeper. Loyalty to my church is like loyalty to my God. God is the most important thing in my life. Everyone is welcome to worship with me who wants to worship. However, I would like them to be serious about it. I guess that sort of sets a distinction with what kind of people I want to go to church with. You asked a question about all religions being equal and I may be treading on a fine a line, but my answer is no. I don't think all religions are equal. If I said that I did, then I wouldn't be faithful to my own religion. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes because I know that everyone has their own beliefs, but this is just what I believe and I have that right. So does everyone else. I think the only way to God is through Jesus Christ. And yes, Heaven will be an exclusive community for all those who have accepted Him. As far as the neighborhood I grew up in, it was pretty much just white middle class citizens. We were a predominately white community with only white children in our schools. There was no diversity like at BSC. I really appreciate the differences that I have come across in college. It's so much better than being in a small neighborhood where you have to conform to everybody else. In my neighborhood, if something happened, everybody and their grandma knew about it within five minutes of it happening. Everyone was nosey and if they saw someone walking down the street that they didn't know, they would call the police even if they didn't do anything. It was so typical and boring. The part in Prof. Hubbs lecture that I really appreciated the most was when he quoted a woman from the old South saying that "Cotton was all they ever talked about". The thing that strikes me as funny about this is that my grandmother still talks about it from time to time. I can't imagine how much she would've talked about it back then. I also liked how he said that "Communities are relationships among people." I never thought about it that way but it seems pretty true. He has a way of keeping the listener's attention.

I was in the back of the auditorium as well so I couldn't quite understand the lecture. Dr. Tatter's discussion helped me better understand, though. The comment about loyalty certainly hits close to home. At our highschool, we had an intense rivalry with the other private school in Mobile. We were the Saints and they were the Bulldogs. We thought they were all snobby and elitist. I'm not sure what they thought of us but I'm positive it wasn't very nice. The annual football game set us against even our closest friends at UMS( the "other" school). My brother went there and the rivalry followed us home. It made for some interesting late-night wars. I know that loyalty goes beyond schools and sports. For me, in particular, i am very loyal to my family and get extremely defensive when they are hurt or insulted. The same goes for my church. I am a Catholic Christian, so I am very passionate about the Church. I tend to get defensive when it is insulted. Loyalty has definately been a huge factor in my life growing up. I don't know if it's a Southern thing but, of everything my parents taught me, it is definitely one of the most important lessons.

The way that Professor Hubbs stumbled upon his material amazes me. What are the odds that a person will one day walk into your office and hand you what he considers to be a useless diary and a few years later, after diligent searching and writing, you will walk out of that same office knowing that you have just published two books that originated from that material? That simply astounds me. Professor Hubbs’ incredible luck and diligent dedication is a real inspiration to me. It is like the story of Brad Pitt one day working at El Pollo Loco and the next day staring in a movie beside a Hollywood heart throb. Professor Hubb’s tale is almost as romantic as the views of the new South that he acquired along his microfilm and print odyssey.
I have only watched Gone with the Wind once. Because I never lived in a cotton plantation in the old South, I assumed the movie fit the time period like a leather glove. When I read my history books that was how the plot appeared to be laid out. I imagined hoop dresses, formal parties, and cotton plantations. Slaves filled that background, but were thought of as less than human. Communities must have had a family feel about them. Plantation mothers and children must have met for tea and courtships must have been extensive and elegant.
While listening to Professor Hubbs’ presentation on Confederacy and community, things started clicking in my head. In a money grubbing society where cotton raped black soil year after year and slaves perpetually burned under a humid red sun, the fairy tale houses and hoop dresses were as much of a façade as old West storefronts. How could a community grow in a land rabid with cruelty?
In the new South, the South in which I have been raised, there is not much industry or as much cotton. However, the community that Professor Hubbs describes is certainly prevalent. That is what struck me the most. Southern communities are exclusive. I think that exclusion and loyalty can be good things. What would happen if BSC opened the Honor’s Program to just anyone? Quality and personal attention would take quite I fall. What if all neighborhoods were equally priced and equally open? Crime rates would be horrible in all areas. What if Harvard or BSC were not exclusive? The education given by those schools would not be revered. What if medical schools were not exclusive? Anyone could cut open Grandmother’s heart or treat little Johnny’s mental disorder.
Sometimes exclusion and loyalty are necessary evils in order to promote the best possible operation of a system. However, the South took it to extremes. To this day in many parts of this state (whether we choose to ignore it or not) racial exclusion and tension still exists. Children are still taught to hate and to look down on others. In short, if one does not agree with the social norm, they are, to varying degrees, shunned from the community. I have seen it in my hometown and in my high school.
As for religious exclusion, I have never felt it in my church. People are always invited, always welcome. In my experience, it is more a case of individuals choosing to exclude themselves from a religious experience. When something of that nature is freely offered, it is a person’s own doing if he or she does not receive. The same goes for eternal placement. Will only a few people be in Heaven? Is not that the equivalent to asking if Hell is real? I feel that it is a personal choice. Few people spend an entire life span forced into religious devotion. There are such a large number of churches, especially in the South, because of the tendency towards community and loyalty. If one feels unwelcome in one, then there is sure to be another for that person.
However, in the modern South, at least in some urban areas and at most high-level learning institutions, open community is progressively forming. There will forever be exclusive organizations. That is life, despite any amount of whining. Even so, if we individually heed Professor Hubbs’ advice, there will be an ever brighter outlook for tomorrow. We must learn from history so we do not repeat it.

Throughout the lecture all I could think was, "Greensboro? Tara? Why doesn't Professor Hubbs come to Sand Mountain, Alabama?" I feel like I have grown up in an area that is full of the "old south" sense of community, relationships, and loyalty. We may not have grand plantation style homes with wrap around porches and hundred year old weeping willows in the front yards around every corner, but in that sense of community, relationships, and loyalty, we are distinctively southern...and I have always hated it.

One can look at different streets in my town and, for the most most part, not just tell who lives on that street, but who's FAMILY lives on that street. In some cases the street will even be the sir name of the family. It's eerie in a way. People grow up on Sand Mountain and they have kids. Their kids will come back to live on Sand Mountain and they will have kids. Their kids will grow up...and so on. In most cases, the families (grandparents, kids, grandkids) will end up on the same street or same piece of land because that is how it has always been done. I read last year in my local newspaper about a few older citizens who have never left Sand Mountain. NEVER. This amazed me. I mean yeah, ok, I guess loyalty is a good thing in some cases, but THAT loyal? I could not imagine living a life in which I had never seen a city, ocean, or any other animal besides a cow.

My family, however, is a little different. We are "transplants". My mom was a traveling "city girl", my dad was a corn bread eatin', rockin' chair sitten', cotton pickin', country boy from south Alabama. And somehow we ended up as aliens to this warped universe called Sand Mountain. I don't have grandparents, and the rest of my family is scattered across America. We don't live on "Wilson Road." And I DON'T plan on moving back to Sand Mountain to raise my kids. Wow, my family is weird. We don't "fit in" with the rest of my community. I don't fit in, I guess like Gretchen didn't fit in in our story today. (Except I'm not a disturbed child that throws things in toilets and chases her imaginary enemy.) During an interveiw for a county wide leadership program when I was asked the question, "Do you plan to return to Sand Mountain after college?" I was criticized for answering "No." So I kind-of "get" the whole southern community concept... and being excluded from it.

As far as being loyal, what stuck with me after the forum was one of the things Professor Hubbs said about loyalty. "Inclusion and exclusion...the dark side of loyalties." We can't be loyal to everyone. I guess I am a naive idealist, but I always thought you could be loyal to everyone. You can't. Like Dr. Hubbs, and Dr. Tatter both touched on, having a loyalty to one group means you can't be loyal to another group. I thought your questions were interesting, Dr. Tatter, about one's loyalty to their faith and heaven being an exclusive community. Although I have been taught the concept of "Heaven and Hell" my entire life, and as a Christian I should believe it, I really have a hard time doing so. I want to believe that everyone's faith is the "right one." I have a really hard time believing that my Hindu friends are going to Hell. I'm sure some think that I am not loyal to my Christian faith because I can't believe that mine is the only religion that is right. I just don't like the idea that Heaven is exclusive. I know I should believe that Heaven is exclusive, but I can't. I like to think of my God as a loving and merciful God, not a scary, fire throwing, damning God.

Wow. I'm sorry I wrote so much. I hope I made some sense. Props to those of you who read this after seeing how long it was;). I hope everyone has a good weekend!

Being one of the people who were lucky enough to actually be able to hear, I found Professor Hubbs' lecture pretty interesting. I have seen Gone With the Wind and had always just assumed that it correctly portrayed the South before and after the war. The concepts he brought forth were new to me, but they also made alot of sense. Now that I think about the U.S. in the light of being a "pioneer" type society I realize that it is very true. I look at the history of our country and even what goes on now in respect to our roots and see that our country is much different from most other cultures in the world. I remember there being a few times when I would talk to someone from another country or see a movie that portrayed a family from another country and be in awe of how differently they treated family and area connections. They barely ever moved out the town they grew up in and much of life was centered around extended family and tradition- even in marriage and career choice. I look at my life and the countless times we have moved, how for the last 12 years of my life lived more than 3 hours from my nearest relatives, and how my family have always been the "loners" when it comes to be included in any type of community and the differences are once again magnified. I relate more to the town of Greensboro before the war, and I understand how American's can be viewed as very independent in those matters. We don't hesitate to move away from family for a better job. We don't often honor our roots or really even think about them. I suppose that this is a stereotype we deserve.
On the matter of inclusiveness in certain groups, I have seen that many times growing up. Shortly after moving to Alabama when I was seven, I began attending a small private school and continued going to that same school until my junior year of high school. I remember many times the additions of new students to our close knit group. Many times the new kids would not stay very long because we a very exclusive group. If we didn't like the person or didn't think they fit, they were never given the privilege of feeling as if they actually belonged. Now there were many times that this was not done necessarily on purpose, but when you grow up in a certain group, it's hard to see things change. I was just lucky enough to come early. I changed schools for my senior year and remember everyone being very nice in my new environment, but still knowing that I didn't have the years of experienc that all the others had in that group or school. I also faced anger from my friends that I had left because my leaving had created quite a wave. There are also the stereotypical high school groups- the nerds, the jocks, the cheerleaders etc. Any of these groups could choose to include others, but they often don't. The supposed differences are too much to allow for any change. Unfortunately this exclusivesion goes a step further into ridicule and abuse-like it did in the post-war South.

I agree with what Jessica Dunn said about how she always thought that the civil war was like Gone With the Wind. It's funny how we allow ourselves to really believe what a movie would portray for a war, when we know that movies are not reality. I enjoyed the lecture by Professor Hubbs', and I agree with him about how a community can get clicky. I am not saying that I agree with the way that the Greensboro community handled outsiders, I just agree with how they became a "community". I loved the part when Professor Hubbs' talked about a community not being a community with out relationships between neighbors. Especially now a days, when no one knows their neighbors. I think it is simplie because we are totally consumed with all the things that we have to do and don't have the time to meet people.
The reason why I can see why the people of Greensboro were such a tight woven community is because they all believed in the same thing. Just like when you are finding your best friend in first grade, you find the person who is most like you. I have always had better relationships with people who believed in the same values that I did. The reason why no one will let the outsider into their community is because they do not want change. Change causes people to have to adjust and if the community is doing well, why change it. No, they did not go about the best means of asking people to leave, but they were still trying to protect themselves from the outside war. When I lived in Gulfport, MS my grandfather was the priest at my church and so we knew everybody. We all had the same religious beliefs and felt comfortable around each other. When I moved to Birmingham it was a hard change for my family because our comfort zone was gone. We didn't know anybody and when we would go to find another church, the people there were close, which made us feel left out. You don't go to a place that you don't feel welcome. I don't know why people even attempted to go to Greensboro if they met the people and knew they weren't wanted.
In regard to loyalty I would have to say that according to professor Hubbs, to be completely loyal to anything you would have to shut other things or people out of your life. Like football, I am an Alabama fan, so for me to be loyal I would have to dislike every other team that played Bama. My parents have always taught me to be open minded and not to close off possibilities, which makes it hard for me to really believe in this type of loyalty. One thing that I do get heated up about is religion and politics. There are people in this world today that truly believe that their religion is completly right, and that everyone else is going to hell. I don't care what religion a person is because that shouldn't matter. I guess it is just like the people in Greenboro because they are one sided. It is there way and no other way. That whole idea seems so stubborn and ignorent. At my church people are allowed to come as they please. Of course it is going to be a little exclusive to those who believe in our beliefs, only because others would normally not come. I do think that all religions are equal because they are all beliefs in some type of higher being. I think heaven will be filled with a lot of people, because God forgives people for their sins, as long as they want him to. I don't think God wants people to go to hell only when they do something very bad and don't ask him for forgivness.
I grew up in a small neighborhood where everyone was pretty close. Our neighborhood was not exclusive as much as the parents where with in the neighborhood. All the old people were in a group, then the people with older children, then with younger children, and etc. My parents had a group of people they would have parties with and spend time with because they had children around the same age. One lady that was crazy lived across the street and everyone couldn't stand her. She would give all of us kids Chocolate and ruin our dinners. I didn't know any better, but my mom really didn't like the lady.
Nosey neighbors are those who have nothing else better to do with their time. My neighbor now, is very sweet but has way to much time on her hands. She reports to my parents anytime I come home and how long I stayed and with who. It is like she has a permanent camera filming my house. She tends to report people to the police, if she doesn't like them, if they let their dogs run in her yard, or if they don't look like they live in our neighborhood. That sounds awful but you don't want strange people walking around that don't live there. They could be planning on stealing all of your stuff when you leave on a trip for Christmas.

Though both of my parents were "born and raised" in the same Alabama small towns of Evergreen and Ozark in which my grandparents still live today, my parents gave my sister and me quite a different childhood. I have lived in four small Alabama towns, one small Florida panhandle town (which is 30 minutes from the Alabama state line, so it's quite similar to it's neighboring "northern" communities), and presently call the big city of Montgomery home as of June 2004. Why, you may ask, have I moved from small town to small town? No, my parents are not gypsies; they are both United Methodist ministers. We move from town to town under the direction of our Bishop. I have lived and breathed the horrors of exclusion by peers and adults alike simply because I was not born in their respective communities. I was denied scholarship opportunities and leadership positions by adults during my senior year of high school in a particular small town because "(they) hadn't watched me grow up from a baby in the hospital" or "(my) parents made too much money at the church" [give me a break....my parents are definitely NOT preachers for the money....if those people only knew], while the bank president's twin daughters, who had grown up in the community, were given the majority of the money available and honored distinctions. Exclusion hurts. Fortunately, not all small towns are like the hypocritical town that I called home during my sophomore, junior, and senior years of high school. A fine line exists between loyalty to one's community and "down right nastiness." I believe education of character in one's whole being is fundamental in the cycle that continues in the small towns in which I have lived. I have noticed that if parents teach children to be exclusive to "outsiders," then the children will act in that manor; however, if parents teach their children to have an open mind and heart to people from different regions, then, most likely, their children will show actions of inclusion. It's a cycle passed down through each generation; I have found that most children act like their parents--whether the children will recognize that fact or not.
One place that I've always found total acceptance is in the churches that I have worshiped. My parents truly believe in John Wesley's (the Methodist founder) guiding faith principle of God's grace. With grace, an overwhelming sense of love and acceptance should flow into one's life. During confirmation (United Methodist classes in which adolescents are instructed in the fundamental principles of the faith), my parents, who taught my class, shared an analogy that I have vividly carried and practiced in my life. Heaven is on a mountain top. Many different roads, some more winding or more narrow or longer than others, start in the valley and drift up the mountainside.
United Methodism and Christianity are certainly not the only "right" beliefs. Religion is a personal experience that should not be judged by others who may condemn "outsiders" for differing beliefs.
Jesus came to Earth and broke bread (crucial to early societies concerning forgiveness) and made friends with all people despite their station in life. I believe that God is Love, and He doesn't exclude any religion or faith. I agree with Mr. Wesley in the respect that God provides a prevenient grace--it's available to everyone! I would feel like a hypocrite if I even thought about excluding someone for not sharing in my own beliefs. For me, Heaven will not be a place with a United Methodist street, an Episcopal street, a Southern Baptist Street, a Pentecostal street or a Catholic street. We will all live together and will be bound together by our common love and belief in God.
A community and conforming to a community's standard is what one makes it.

I was very interested in Dr. Hubb's lecture but I was in the back and couldn't hear very well. However, I really enjoyed what I did hear. I had never really heard anyone actually speak on southern distinctiveness. I think that everyone groups up knowing that there is a difference between the North and the South. I think that the stereotypes come mostly from TV and movies and things like that but I had never heard anyone actually try to explain why and how those stereotypes came about.
I to believe the loyalty Dr. Hubbs spoke of is still prevelant today, however in different froms than it was back during the Civil War. To me loyalty means sticking up for and standing beside someone, place, or thing no matter what. For example, I believe that I am a very loyal friend because I am always there when my friends need me and if someone else tries to put them down I stand up for them. Now in my community loyalty is a different thing. I live in the big community of Shelby County, Alabama. It's made up of mostly well-to-do families whose husbands play golf and wifes are soccer and tennis moms. We belonged to a country club and enjoyed all of the benifits of that life. Loyalty in that kind of atmosphere appeared in many different forms. There was political loyalty where people tryed to vote to do what was best for our county. There was club loyalty where if you were a member at Heatherwood you only played golf and tennis there and you played a lot. And then where was loyalty between schools. The area I live in is expanding very rapidly and so there are many high schools. I was the president of my class at Oak Mountain so my job was to inspire loyalty or "school spirit" in my class. It was not an easy job and it was mostly accomplished during homecoming week when we were actually competing. Loyalty in that case involved cheering, dressing silly, and supporting our school and grade. Now if I expand to larger schools that brings me to Alabama and Auburn football. One of the oldest riverlies in Alabama. Some people go to the extreme in their loyalty to their team but I prefer to take a much more passive approach to football. I am an Alabama fan but I don't put down Auburn or Auburn fans, it's their choice who they want to cheer for an I wont try to sway them, even if I think they are wrong. This kind of loyalty can be extremely fierce in Alamaba and it can bring out the best and worst in people. My opinion of Greek organizations is kind of the same. Just because your a member of one doesn't mean you have to hate the others. I am very loyal to my soriety but that doesn't mean that I don't like the other ones. I don't have any problems with them, they are just different. Kind of like the North and South most Southerners don't have a problem with people who live in the North they are just different. I think that you can be loyal to one without hating the other.

I am well aquainted with the idea of loyalty to one group leading to hatred for another. Though I was not able to attend the lecture due to an illness, I have witnessed loyalty and the resulting prejudice multiple times in my life. I am Italian and Belgian, and my parent's relationship was not unlike that of Wet Side Story. Though this conflict has long been resolved, I experienced the same tension from my dark haired, dark skinned classmates in grade school. In high school, I was labeled a "nerd" by one group, a "prep" by another, and "weird" by yet another, so I never really fit in anywhere. We had sport rivalries with other schools, and though there was never really any conflict due to differences in schools, there were fights due to differences in "race." I think that Professor Hubbs had a very valid point about loyalty. I also believe that he was right about community. Not many people realize what they do when they talk about people who are different in front of their children. I once went on a beachtrip with a very southern family, and my friend's parents were talking about things that could be considered racist. When my friend just came out and made a very racist comment about certain police members, her parents just drove on in silence. I guess after a while, you just get used to it.

I have mostly thought of loyalty as an honorable trait; a trait to be admired. However, the exclusive nature of the loyalty that Dr. Hubbs spoke about was not admirable at all. The community spirit and support associated with loyalty are positive results, but when loyalty is taken too far and based upon discrimination, rejection, or extreme competition these positive results are overshadowed by their negative counterparts.

I have, like may others who have posted, felt excluded at various schools I have attend because I wasn’t there when everyone was playing with play-do in preschool, or at their roller-skating birthday parties every year since second grade. When I was younger I used to wish that I had never moved, that I had lived in the same house all my life so that I could share those memories and be part of those friendships. Instead, I moved often during my childhood; I even attended three high schools. The last high school I went to was by far the smallest and I noticed the exclusive loyalty of that particular school more than any other I had attended. Most of the people there had been together since kindergarten, and their parents had been friends almost as long as they had been alive. In the beginning, I often felt left out, like I was missing something, whenever I hung out with them. I never knew the stories they brought up, and if it asked to hear them to understand they would dismiss me, saying that it didn’t matter. When disagreements happened I was always in the wrong; if I had been there long enough I would have known better than to do whatever I did that they considered unacceptable.

After I had been at the school for awhile and began to feel more comfortable I realized I was acting with the same warped loyalty that had excluded me. When a new student moved in my senior year, I found myself leaving him out or ignoring him just because he wasn’t like us, because he hadn’t been there. Once I realized what I was doing however, I made an effort to befriend him and made a really good friend who I would have never noticed if I had kept my “exclusive” loyalties.

I was one of those who sat in the back of the auditorium, but from what I heard, I agree with Professor Hubbs definiton of loyalty. I have a loyalty to the South. I will live in the South all my life because it is my home, and it is where I belong. Speaking of homes, I am involved in Sigma Chi fraternity, and I am loyal to the brothers and my fellow pledge class. For the most part, one will not find my wandering around Fraternity Row looking for a place to go because my home is at Sigma Chi. I was honored to be admitted to pledgeship so I have no reason attempting to find another place to go.

Enough about my fraternity--let me attempt to tackle this heaven and hell thing without getting to wound up about my religion. I believe Heaven will be an exclusive place to an extent because one has to think about what it takes to get into such a wonderful place. I believe one gets into Heaven by grace alone, through faith alone. Nothing else can get you into Heaven. Those who have faith that...(John 3:16) and ask for the Triune God's forgiveness and accept the fact that He has given it to you by His grace will be saved and may enter into His kingdom. Now it is not exclusive in the fact that God had made His choices and we as humans cannot do anything about it. That would be predestination and not something that I believe. Back to the faith through grace... if one decided to reject this free gift then of course he/she will not receive the Kingdom of God.

The first image that comes to my mind when I think about loyalty, or loyalty to a cause, is in the context of nationality. As American citizens, we share in the "pride and prosperity" of our country, and are taught to be proud to be Americans. America is seen as a community through its common language, common ancestral background, and often common moral principles as well. We agree to the concepts of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are all subjected to the American Dream, our image of success and happiness in society, whether we realize it or not. We all want to go to college to be successful in the "real world," and a good education is valued by nearly everyone. These all encompass the American community on a more individual level, but America often stands for so much more.

On a more global scale, Americans are often regarded as the beacon of light to the rest of the world. Our capitalist free market is a model to developing economies, and our successful economy is one of the worlds wealthiest. Everyone loves our pop music, our movies, and our clothing. These might not always be the most positive, though, and while they sound great in theory when spoken of with such a positive spin, there is also a down side. There are some aspects of America I don't care to associate myself with.

For example, when I went overseas (I spent my junior year of high school as an exchange student to the Netherlands), I went over with a different view of being American. I was proud of my family, and to an extent, my hometown, my school, etc, but I shied away from being called American. Where most people might proudly announce they were American, I would try to avoid it. Was I not proud of my country? Yes, I was... to an extent. Was I being disloyal? Probably. What I saw as being American at home was very different from being American overseas. Part of my reluctance to admit my nationality was the fear of being labeled like all the other American tourists, which I tried to avoid like the plague. Americans do not always have the rosiest reputations in foreign countries, and I did not want to be seen as "another one of those Americans." I was different from them: I spoke the language, was conscientious of world issues, and knew my geography like the back of my hand. Why then all this fear?

This experience taught me a valuable lesson in loyalty. Nationalistic sentiment is easy to have in your home country. In America, where I was in my safe community of Americans who were more or less like me, agreed with me, and shared similar backgrounds, loyalty was a given; loyalty came naturally in such a group. However, when placed in a group where I was the only one with such loyalties, I quickly saw my loyalties change. I kept my nationality, but I questioned America and its values. I was not proud of our portrayal as the commercial nation we seem to have become. Chain stores were rampant, and I was disgusted by some of the "globalization," as nearly every downtown center became oddly the same with their similar clothing chains, etc. Was this what it meant to be American? To shop at all these stores, wear these clothes, go to see these movies, and have these kinds of "Friends"? I quickly seemed to become a traitor to the cause. Anything that would keep people from labeling me solely as "American," and I don't mean simply as my nationality.

I still find loyalty to be a very tricky topic. Was I wrong to abandon certain "loyalties" I held as an American? Should I be labeled a traitor? Maybe it was simply a discovery that certain loyalties aren't worth keeping, and it took a step outside the American borders to realize some of those. As I mentioned already, loyalty within a friendly environment is easy, but loyalty in the face of adversity is very different. Where our loyalties lie, or who they are with, form a very important aspect of who we are as people. If we are defined by our loyalties, though, I might carefully consider the next time I claim loyalty to any sort of community or group, and though I support loyal patriots, we too must avoid allowing our loyalties to impede the path of better understanding and greater community.

At Professor Hubbs' Cultural Event on Thursday, I found his discussions of loyalty very interesting. Up until the lecture, I had never considered loyalty to be a negative thing. To me, loyalty just showed a serious committment to a certain cause. I did not stop to think that in a way, loyalty is also synonomous with exclutivity. To use the football example, if you are a loyal Auburn fan, you have to exlude being able to root for opposing teams such as Alabama. However, I think there are many degrees of loyalty. In my opinion, it is possible to be loyal to something (like being an Auburn fan), but still be able to enjoy other endevours (like being happy for Alabama if they won).

Another thing that struck me about Professor Hubbs' lecture was the eagarness of the men in Greensboro to go to war. Professor Hubbs mentioned that there had to be a town lottery to determine who would not be allowed to enlist. I realize that the recent war with Iraq in no way compares to the size of the Civil War, but the reception of Americans is unbelievably less enthusiastic today. Not only are there not young men and women lining up in mass to enlist, there are countless protests against America's invovlement in Iraq. Getting back to loyalty, America today has seemed to lost our sense of it. Excluding the few months following September 11, America has been a very divided nation for the last couple of years. The Democrats hate the Republicans, the Republicans hate the Democrats, and neither can seem to find a common ground. Our president is Republican, and it seems that many people can only see him as that. The non-Republicans will never be able to accept that George Bush is our president, and that maybe being president should be reason enough to give him our support and loyalty.

On the subject of communities, I think it is very easy for them to lean more on the exclusivity side and less on the loyal side. I also find it very possible for a lot of that exclusivity to occur inside the community. I can remember plenty of instances in elementary school of feeling left out because I was not one of cheerleaders for the pee wee football team, or because I lived in one of the older neighborhoods. I have lived in the same town since the age of five; however, I have never felt an extreme sense of loyalty to that particular town. Part has to do with the fact that not being born there made me somewhat of an outsider, and part is probably because I never cared quite that much. Even though I do not have any undying sense of loyalty to my community, I know those who did. Some of these people would have rather been run over by an eighteen-wheeler than go to high school or live anywhere else. I am sure some may disagree, but I think loyalty that extreme is somewhat unsettling.

I thought Professor Hubbs' lecture was interesting because I have never thought of loyalty as being an almost negative thing. I've always though of loyalty as an admirable trait and I guess I never really thought about the fact that it can make us exclude or discrimminate against others. I think that a lot of times groups, or communities, reject people with loyalties opposite theirs out of fear. A community that supported the Confederacy would not welcome a person who didn't for fear that this person would try to interfere with their beliefs or other things. Also, a lot of people are born into loyalties. If a person is brought up an Auburn fan or brought up a Methodist, then that's all they know. Befriending someone with different loyalties could influence your own, which can be frightening.
As far as the issue with Alabama and Auburn fans goes, the more ignorant or intoxicated fans are usually the most disrespectful and there are just as many horrible Auburn fans as there are horrible Alabama fans. I think the level of discrimmination depends more on the individual than the group they are loyal to.

I thought that Professor Hubbs' lecture was insiteful and sparked new ideas for me. I had never thought of loyalty that way. Even though I couldn't really hear all of the concepts, I am able to easily connect with some of the topics Professor Tatter brought up. I am very loyal to my football teams such as Alabama and Prattville High school. Although I am a fan of these teams, most of my friends are not, so mostly I have to respect their opinons more than just being loyal to a team. I also have seen many people who are not like this though. I have even been disculded from some church activities because I was the only Alabama fan during a bad season and that to me is ridiculous.
About Heaven, I believe that anyone who believes in God and Jesus Christ will go to heaven. I don't think the different church beliefs really matter in the long run such as Baptists v. Methodists or whatever. I think that as long as you believe in God and Jesus you shouldn't have to worry about the church you go to as long as your church helps you and brings you closer to God. I also believe that the Jewish people will go to Heaven, even though they don't believe in Christ the son, they are in the old testament, God's chosen people and they will have a place in Heaven. I think in some aspects Heaven can be considered an exclusive community because it clearly states in the bible that to get to Heaven, one must believe in the Father through the Son.
I also think that I would take anybody to church with me because I believe that it doesn't matter about your past experiences as long as you practice your faith and believe. I don't believe that churches should be exclusive, and that they should welcome anyone into the church, because Jesus even hung out with the worst of the worst people.
Dealing with communities, I don't think I have ever lived in an exclusive community because I have always lived on Air Force bases so I have never had to really try to fit in because we all had something in common because all of us had at least one parent in the Air Force.

[I love the stream of consciousness style of writing... and sometimes it is hard to follow. And, for that, I am sorry.]

Loyalty. I had never really thought about the groups I am loyal to... Christians, Alabama fans, the members of my neighborhood and community. In my neighborhood, we aren’t exactly the Mountain Brook of Alabama but we are of where I live. We have no sidewalks and people are always gathering around to compare the bank statements of the other members of the community. And, I guess that is where my family does not exactly fit in. We are probably the poorest of all the other families. My dad is no CEO or rich cardiac surgeon and he certainly did not start his own multimillion dollar company. Simply, he is a dentist and my mom is an administrative supervisor. Not horrible jobs, not horrible money, but, in our neighborhood, we are the people that do not have the house that can beat the Jones’ [However, our house could resemble the guest house or something.] I guess what I am trying to say is that my family, although we have loyalty to our community, is not exactly completely accepted. So, therefore, being rejected by a community I am loyal to, I can understand the darkside of loyalty.

As far as the exclusive nature of loyalty, I had never really entertained the idea of loyalty having a negative connotation. Rather, I thought one should have pride in the groups that they were loyalty. Now I have started to question whether I should be loyal to any group. All of them are exclusive and all create hostility amongst rival groups. But then again, if we are all not divided into the groups with other like-minded people, our ideas could eventually fade away. However, in the same token, loyalty and group-forming in a society creates the ability for questioning to eventually disappear. For, if someone is continually around other individuals that are just like them, it makes it hard to question those ideals. I do not really know where I am going with all of this...

Is it bad for me to be loyal to my fellow Christians? Christianity, by nature, excludes certain people - those that do not believe that God the Father sent His only son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die on the cross and wash away our sins with His blood. And, it is through this act, that we, the sinners, have the opportunity to have faith and believe in Him and, consequentially, can receive the gift of eternal life. That is the only way according to the Bible and therefore we believe that we are the only ones that will enter Heaven. Exclusive? Yes. Right? Well, I think so. But am I wrong in being loyal to them? I am not so sure now...

The thing that intrigued me in Professor Hubb's lecture was the meaning behind southern racism. Racism is basically the unlike of someone with different beliefs. Greensboro was a prime example. Similarities and loyalties made them a close knit community. The participants were very threatened by different people or cultures becuase their own beliefs may be affected. The questions you asked about sports teams, sororities, and religions have really made me think. Everyone exhibits some form of dislike to someone who believes differently. This dislike may not be violent, but it is still very evident. Auburn fans and Alabama fans may sit together at the game, but anger is present if ones team starts to lose. People of a different religion may get along well until religion is brought up in their conversations. Then many situations are lengthly debated such as if Baptism is necessary to enter Heaven.
Racism and hatred seem to have greatly died down over the years, but I believe it will never cease. Most people just have that personality trait to be loyal to their beliefs and dislike others who believe or act differently.

I enjoyed Professor Hubbs' lecture on "The Origin of Southern Distinctiveness." I found it interesting that he mentioned that the Old South lacked communities because it had few tools to build communities. I had never thought about the tools that it takes to build a community. I suppose it would be hard for one to form relationships with the selfish "autonomous individualists" filling the Old South. With only the one-sided interests of their neighbors, members of that era would find it difficult to cultivate meaningful relationships and share common interests. Without these tools, a community cannot be formed. Dr. Hubbs said that the thinking of the agriculturalists followed these lines: "I came here to make money." While this statement parallels the "survival of the fittest" mentality, this thinking resembles the mental drive of our present society members. Dr. Hubbs also made another point that the drive for riches leaves no room for attachment. This likewise is reflected in today's urban society. This thought led me down a road to question whether or not we have stable communities in today's world. We have religious communities, scholarly communities, and interest groups. I suppose that the existence of communities is not threatened because we have greater access to communication tools. Instead of being limited to our surrounding neighbors to form a community, we can now use means of long-distance communication to bridge together members from around the nation and around the world to form our own communities.

Dr. Hubbs also said that communities are forged out of necessity. The people of Greensboro and other Southern towns banded together to form religious organizations, fraternal groups to establish credit, reform societies, and agricultural improvement societies. However, one of the most important alliance was the militia who came together to protect the white population from slave rebellions. These men shared a sense of purpose and a common drive to protect their families and homes. I found it interesting that it was this premature bonding that evolved into the Confederate army--a community also forged out of necessity to protect men's families and homes.

Dr. Hubbs' discussion of the term "loyalty" also sparked my interest. By committing oneself to the cause and defense of a community, one knowingly or unintentionally commits oneself antagonistically towards another community. By mentioning this exclusion principle, Dr. Hubbs brought up a very intersting topic for me to ponder. How have I excluded others? I have always discouraged clique forming, but I must admit to shuning some people. If I exculed anyone, it tended to be because of other's morals or value systems and their religious background. Because religion is the most important aspect of my (as Dr. Tatter likes to describe it--) "multi-dimentional personality," I sometimes "diminish a complex individual" into categories of religion, denomination, or doctrinal stance. My loyalty to my own convictions, interpretations, and beliefs can even become contradictory toward my view of loving the people around me. The irony of this thought impacts me with full force. Even though I strongly argue for kindness and charity toward all, if I allow my stance on issues to segregate those with opposite views, I am being discriminatory. This is what impacted me about Dr. Hubbs' discussion about loyalty.

Until Dr. Hubbs lecture I had never considered the idea of a community being exclusive to more inclusive. But it makes perfect sense. I think loyalty is crucial in community. Loyalty is like trust without it a relationship cannot thrive. When we each entered high school we all were expected to show up to sports events to cheer on our peers, participate in outside activies promoting our school spirit, and be ready at a moments notice to defend the honor of our school. I think this is a type of exclusion. Anyone who represented a different high school was an outsider and it took a lot of effort to break that barrier. Just like sitting on opposite sides of the bleachers. The set up of bleachers really feeds into this idea of defending "our side." At basketball games it is obvious when one team makes a good play or scores the fans are almost taunting the other teams fans instead of cheering for their own team. Alabama verse Auburn is a very sensitive subject for make sports fans. But I think the idea of inclusion and exclusion in these two communties only plays its self out during football and basketball seasons. I know that I have many friends who are both Alabama and Auburn fans and other than common disagreements like who the best team is or who will win the big game we get along great. But I do believe that some football fans lump all Alabama fans together and others lump all Auburn fans together in an attempt to say "Well they are this way and we aren't." A good friend of mine has often told me that "All Auburn fans are horrible drivers" this assumption basically excludes alabama drivers from this bad driver sterotype. An older man also informed me that my parents should me to Alabama instead of Auburn if they wanted me to go to a really college.

I also think it is interesting about Tatter comment on heaven being inclusive. You damn right heavan in going to exclude people. We are taught all of our lives that we are being watched and judged and that in the end we during final judgement God determines whether we enter heaven or not. How is excluding people because of their past wrong doings not exclusive? I all believe that the Catholic Church which I have been raised in my whole live is exclusive. We do not allow people who have not gone through the sacriment of communion to receive the body and blood or Christ but they are otherwise allowed to fully participate in the Church. I also believe that the church should allow women to fill in positions of priests but the Church won't allow them to because they believe that priest should be like Jesus... is that not exclusion. I am also confused by the mixed statements the church gives about equality and homosexuality. When I read the Cathcism of the Cathlic church it plainly states that it is wrong to exclude others despite their race, gender, economic status, age, etc. If the Catholic Church believes that we are all created equally in the image and likeness of god and that we should not judge our neighbors then how can they church condemn an entire community of their people because they are created differently no matter what their motives are.

The thing that was most interesting to me about Dr. Hubbs lecture was not anything he literally said, but instead, it was a realization that came to me after listening to it. I have always seen southern predjudice as an issue between white people and african-americans. Granted, this issue is at the forefront of predjudice issues the majority of the time, but I realized while reflecting on what i had heard that "southern racism" is not limited to the colors of our skin. The main point that I took away from the lecture was that everywhere, but especially here in the south, people of all colors are excluded and persecuted for various reasons. Growing up in what i would consider the deep south, I have been taught that a man's word is all that he has, therefore loyalty and pride are two values of the highest importance. Although I believe that this is completely true, and that loyalty and pride in one's community is what makes the south a great place; I also understand now that these same values that hold us so closely together can be the very things that tear us apart. This can be proven by observing a subject as simple as a football game. It is a well-known fact that on the last Saturday in November, there are no "I don't really care who wins" aloud. On that day, you choose who to be loyal to, Auburn or Alabama. For those four hours, families are split and loyalty reigns supreme. You can observe the same situation when you look at churches with different denominations or religious beliefs. The attitude taken by most churches is that "I am right and you are wrong, and if you don't agree with us, then you don't belong here." I am not agreeing or disagreeing with this viewpoint, because truthfully the religion that I follow take this outlook on things. I am only saying that by doing this, the people who do not believe as you do are excluded, and in a sense, persecuted. I do not believe that Dr. Hubb's lecture was an attempt to imply that the south is wrong for being the way that it is. I believe that he was only bringing the issue to our attention and stating that whether or not we want to admit the problem is there. I guess the lesson I took away from the lecture was to examine the ideals and morales that you consider to be strong and right, at all cost, and realize that although some things seem to be very good at first glance, they can also be the very things that completely destroy us.

Until listening to what I could hear of Professor Hubbs' lecture and reading some other classmates responses I have never considered the concept of loyalty to be exclusive. My opinion has changed though from considering other people's ideas. The closest association with loyalty that I have had has been with my friends. I have always considered myself to be a very loyal friend. This only applies to a few select people though and I suppose already I have become exclusive with my loyalties. I have a some friends, a few from home and two or three that I have become close to once coming to school, that I will defend to the death. Although I will support most people I consider friends in a casual encounter with a stranger, if anyone I considered a friend was to turn on one of my close friends I would untimately be on their side no questions asked. Once you have gained my respect and trust and will extend the same to you even if it means trusting you over others whom I know. Therefore I am exclusive and I never even realized it quite like that.
For me personally though not all loyalty has to be taken to the extreme of complete exclusivity. The Alabama/Auburn rivalry is one instance of this for me. I am more of an Alabama fan than an Auburn fan, and I won't apologize for this. But when Auburn is playing any school other than Alabama I will support it too. The only instance where I am exclusively loyal to Alabama. Many people may say this means that I am not a true fan of Alabama, but I don't think that is true. To I support the state of Alabama as a whole and I support all football teams from the state. My loyalty lies to Alabama the state in the union. When instances arise where I must choose between the two, I will, but either way things can not turn out too bad for me because Alabama the state wins either way.