We need your opinion NOW....... - Offworld Trading Company Forums

Reply #1 August 23, 2004 8:14 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1. Your age: 43

2. Male / Female: Female

3. Country / State / Town: USA/Ohio/Dayton area

4. Occupation: Wife and mother

5. How many hours do you work in an average week? 24/7

6. Is this the occupation you envisioned for yourself when at school? Yes

7. Idealistically, what occupation would you have if you had the choice? The one I have

8. Did you have a happy childhood? Mostly

9. Why was your childhood happy / unhappy? I had lots of friends, I always felt loved by people around me..life was just good....

10. What do you do for enjoyment / relaxation? Reading, scrapbooking, playing games with my family, doing crossword puzzles, etc.

11. Idealistically, what would you like to do for enjoyment / relaxation if you had the choice? The things I do now

12. Who would you take with you for and all expenses paid holiday with ten of your family or friends and why? My husband, my three kids, my mother, my brother and SIL, and allow the kids to bring one friend each. Why? Because family is very important to me....but I'd want the kids to have someone their age to hang out with as well.

13. What is the most precious, important item you own and why? Tough one...a toss up between my photo albums and my notebooks with my poems....because they are ME....a record of my life, from the outside (photos) and the inside (poems)

14. If the world was going to explode and you had the chance to save ten people by escaping in a space ship, who

would you save and why?

See the vacation question above...

15. Do you have any animals? Tropical fish and a Siamese cat

16. What sort of relationship do you have with your animals? (eg. are they family members or are they guard dogs, horses

for sport etc.) The fish are there for the relaxation factor....the cat is defintely family...the girls call her their furry sister....

17. Do you struggle to pay your bills? No

18. Can you afford to buy healthy, nutritional food for yourself and your family? Yes

19. What is an example of your average shopping list? (eg. milk , bread, cheese, eggs, peanut butter, chicken....etc) Depends on what we need at the time...we don't do a regularly scheduled shopping trip...we pick up stuff as we need it, and the only real "weekly" shopping trip is for meat.

20. Does your shopping last until the next shop or does it run out before? If so, by when has it run out? SInce we shop when we need something, then it lasts till the next time we shop

21. What do you see as important in life? (eg. family, social life, money, friends, sport ...etc) Faith, family and friends

22. Do you think we could have a system in the world without money? (eg. barter, sharing) Not sure

23. Do you think it is unfair that there are people starving and dying in the world when there are so many individual

millionaires and billionaires and billion dollar companies? Yes

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink

and decent food to eat? Yes

25. Do you have the attitude "charity starts at home" or do you help other when you can? My definition of "charity begins at home" includes everyone in my country....IMO, we need to solve the hunger/poverty/medical care, etc. problems of our own people before we try to solve them in other countries

Further comments

Reply #2 August 23, 2004 10:05 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Poetmom99,
Thanks for taking an interest, it's much appreciated! I am also of the 24/7 Mother club and it's great to hear you are proud to be so....it is dissapointing when mothers feel embarrassed to be a mother........being in todays society where our identity is gauged by the work we do....and I tell you what, I have never worked harder at anything than I have being a Mum and there is nothing more rewarding!
From your answers to the questions I can see that you have your priorities in great order.........as for your most valued items...I totally relate....I also have a love for Poetry and have what I call my bibles.....a group of battered, weather worn books with scratches and scrawlings of poetry....thoughts and stories that I have contributed over many years dragging them all over the countryside with me.....before we had our son ofcourse, now we're pretty well settled!
Could you do me a favour Poetmom99......the questions I am actually focusing on are :

22. Do you think we could have a system in the world without money?
23. Do you think it is unfair that there are people starving and dying in the world when there are so many individual
millionaires and billionaires and billion dollar companies?
24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink
and decent food to eat?

The other questions are more for getting an idea of who you are but these 3 are what I'm interested in plus one more...

Q: What do you think we as a human race can do to unite as a world population and ensure ,without discrimination, that every man, woman and child has clean water, food, shelter, clothing and healthcare? (what I believe to be the fundamental needs for survival )

I would really appreciate if you had the time to put some more thought into this last question especially. Your opinion is highly valued.
Thankyou Poetmom99

Reply #3 August 23, 2004 10:13 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Little Whip,
Now...I have read a lot of your articles Little Whip and I know I am going to appreciate your answer to this question. With your amazing way with words and wisdom I wont just appreciate them but I think I definately NEED you to help me here....you have a great perspective that I think I can't do without!
So, if you could manage a lengthy insight to my question below I will be waiting in anticipation!

Q: What do you think we as a human race can do to unite as a world population and ensure ,without discrimination, that every man, woman and child has clean water, food, shelter, clothing and healthcare? (what I believe to be the fundamental needs for survival )

Thanks Little Whip.

Reply #4 August 26, 2004 12:04 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Since these are the important questions:
22. Do you think we could have a system in the world without money? (barter, sharing)
Barter - Sure. Essentially money is barter we just have system to represent the goods and services we provide.
Sharing - The only way sharing works is if everyone where willing to give the benefit of their work to everyone else. I am not that optomistic that would happen. Usually what someone means by sharing is actually stealing. If I have more than you in order to make it fair you must take from me to give to you. You have taken away the notion of earning so why do I deserve it? Of course, why do you deserve it? In such a society I think there could be no luxury because nobody can earn them and everyone must have them. If I went and made a chess set out of rocks you would have to come and take it away from me unless I was willing to make one for everyone and until I could make 5 billion chess sets we all go without.
Can you really envision a system where everyone has the same stuff or access to it?

23. Do you think it is unfair that there are people starving and dying in the world when there are so many individual millionaires and billionaires and billion dollar companies?
No. Because it is not the billionaires fault that they are starving and dying people in the world. If you took Bill Gates 50 Billion and gave it to the world that is only $10.00...how long would that last you? Meanwhile what is big Bill's incentive to keep paying people employed and working and building and creating... you just took all his money away. He employs thousand directly and probably millions indirectly who in their place help billions of others. You are operating just as a guy who harvest for a lumber of a living and cuts down all the trees. You will find that eventually you have no more trees.
Again if you want to build a world where solving the problem of starving and dying people then we must all become farmers and research chemists. Every building must be knocked down and plowed over and I bet you would still fail.
I think you are solving the wrong problem...look up in goolgle "Dwarf Wheat India" and you might imagine that something else is going on with this starvation problem. I think the better answer is to let capitialist stooges create new things to solve problems.
The world has a lot of problems but I don't understand taking the most productive people in our world and essentially chopping them off at the knees is going to help.

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink
and decent food to eat?
Absolutely. The real question is why aren't we?

The other questions are more for getting an idea of who you are but these 3 are what I'm interested in plus one more...

Q: What do you think we as a human race can do to unite as a world population and ensure ,without discrimination, that every man, woman and child has clean water, food, shelter, clothing and healthcare? (what I believe to be the fundamental needs for survival )

With the exception of massive brain washing...not much. You want to build a world where people operate on what is best for the collective and not for themselves. If you build a system without money and everyone needs are taken care of automatically how is the work going to get done? Maybe you are hoping everyone would pitch in and make it work...but what if they don't. What if I decide to just sit around and do nothing all day. I know what the answer will be even if you don't...you will put me in the Gulag or put a bullet in the back of my head.

Maybe you envision a world where everyone works for their own love of the work. But somebody has to do a job and not everyone could love that job.

Bottom line...in the world we live in you can get buy believing the world is a better place...but your world cannot exist with someone like me. You would have to eliminate me because I would fight you tooth and nail. Which world is fair?

I personally think the problem isn't money but freedom. Your system doesn't have freedom...you just have rules and everybody better get along or else. Personally, I think you would run out of bullets.

Reply #5 August 26, 2004 1:10 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Q: What do you think we as a human race can do to unite as a world population and ensure ,without discrimination, that every man, woman and child has clean water, food, shelter, clothing and healthcare?

For one man to profit another man must starve.

Reply #6 August 26, 2004 1:36 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

For one man to profit another man must starve.

This must be your belief...but I don't understand it. There is no point in arguing with you but I will say if you ever profit on anything then you are an incredible hypocrite that allows people to starve. So you are either all right with that or you better start starving yourself.

Reply #7 August 26, 2004 1:44 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

This must be your belief...but I don't understand it. There is no point in arguing with you but I will say if you ever profit on anything then you are an incredible hypocrite that allows people to starve. So you are either all right with that or you better start starving yourself.

This is not just my belief but also a basic economic fact. I do not care if people starve in order for me to make a profit, they are insignificant to me.

Reply #8 August 26, 2004 1:57 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

This is not just my belief but also a basic economic fact. I do not care if people starve in order for me to make a profit, they are insignificant to me.

Great...give me a citation where I can look up this fact? I would like to have it handy.

That's what I was wondering is if maybe you didn't care if people starved and I misunderstood your statement.
Ah I just bothered to go check out your stuff. Interesting. Never mind then.

Reply #9 August 26, 2004 2:08 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

That's what I was wondering is if maybe you didn't care if people starved and I misunderstood your statement.

I can confirm that I do not care if people starve. As long as I have caviar and lobster on my dining table every night I don't care if a few peasants have to go without.

Reply #10 August 26, 2004 3:27 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1. Your age: 18

2. Male

3. Country / State / Town: Unites States/California/San Diego

4. Occupation: College Student/Applications engineer

5. How many hours do you work in an average week? 20-30 during the summer, none, during school

6. Is this the occupation you envisioned for yourself when at school? No

7. Idealistically, what occupation would you have if you had the choice? I plan on being a research physicist after I get out of grad school

8. Did you have a happy childhood? For the most part yes. Part of it in the middle was terrible

9. Why was your childhood happy / unhappy? Unhappy: Parents were never married and lived apart. I chose to have long hair and was ridiculed for it for a long time. I have above average intelligence and the other kids resented me for it. However, for the most part, i've had a great family and good friends. Basically, just middle school sucked.

10. What do you do for enjoyment / relaxation? Play soccer, racquetball, ride my bike. read books. watch tv, movies.

11. Idealistically, what would you like to do for enjoyment / relaxation if you had the choice? exactly what I do already

12. Who would you take with you for and all expenses paid holiday with ten of your family or friends and why? dad, mom, sister, my friends: steven, elizabeth, lauren, ashley, Kiel, andrew, abby. those are the people i am closest to.

13. What is the most precious, important item you own and why? well, important, my car. but precious, i really don't know. i don't really keep stuff.

14. If the world was going to explode and you had the chance to save ten people by escaping in a space ship, who

would you save and why? probably the same ten people that i would take on vacation.

15. Do you have any animals? nope

16. What sort of relationship do you have with your animals? (eg. are they family members or are they guard dogs, horses

for sport etc.)

17. Do you struggle to pay your bills? no

18. Can you afford to buy healthy, nutritional food for yourself and your family? yes

19. What is an example of your average shopping list? (eg. milk , bread, cheese, eggs, peanut butter, chicken....etc) cheap food. i am a college student.

20. Does your shopping last until the next shop or does it run out before? If so, by when has it run out? i just get food when i need it.

21. What do you see as important in life? (eg. family, social life, money, friends, sport ...etc) friends and family. being happy.

22. Do you think we could have a system in the world without money? (eg. barter, sharing) no. well, money is bartering. but without some standard such as money, it wouldn't work. there are just too many people in the world.

23. Do you think it is unfair that there are people starving and dying in the world when there are so many individual

millionaires and billionaires and billion dollar companies? well, kind of. ideally, everyone would have some minimum level of living including food, water, clothing, and shelter. then, if you wanted to have more, you would be free to attempt that. but we have, as a world, decided that we will base our economy off of money, and individuals owning money, which means that every has a right to keep what they have. it doesn't mean its ideal, but it would also be unfair to force those people with money to give it to others if they are unwilling to do so. which means, charities=good taxes=bad.

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink

and decent food to eat? maybe. not if the population of asia and africa continues to grow at its current rate and under the same corrupt governments. if it is possible, it will not happen for a very long time.

25. Do you have the attitude "charity starts at home" or do you help other when you can? I'm not sure I know what you mean by this. but i don't understand poetmom's response. I don't see why it is more important to solve problems here first. the people here are just the same as the people there. they are not more important. or do you believe they are, just because they're american?

Reply #11 August 27, 2004 12:49 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Freemark,

The only way sharing works is if everyone where willing to give the benefit of their work to everyone else.

I must make it clear that I am not leaning toward a communist solution......and I am aware as in today's society there will always be those who don't want to work and will sit on their bums and take what they can......but I do think they are a minority as I feel most people, in their hearts, want the best for everyone...for the greater good. And I am more concerned with the fact that we allow people to starve, suffer and die because they can't afford the basics in life. Is money more important than a human life....I think not. There are still going to be people who have a high value for material possesions and they will work hard to get them.....and others won't work so hard and they won't gain as much materialistically. It is up to the individual's drive, motivation and needs. But.....all I am saying is ......everyone deserves the basic needs of food, water, shelter, healthcare....but predominantly food and water......because without these two essential items....we die.

If you took Bill Gates 50 Billion and gave it to the world that is only $10.00...how long would that last you?

I also don't think it's fair to take from another without it being their choice. It must come from them wanting to give not because they have to.... or else. And to force people would be going against the greater picture of building a better world. Also, Bill Gates gives an amazing amount to charities, so I hear, more than most.

Q: Do you think if we put all other problems aside and concentrated soley on 'Feeding the World' we could solve the problem as a united world in one foul swoop...and then take the next problem and solve that together and then the next and so on?

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink
and decent food to eat?
Absolutely. The real question is why aren't we?

You said it there.....why aren't we?.....We are capable of doing it ....yet we don't .....Perhaps it is a case of 'keep them vulnerable, keep control.'

What if I decide to just sit around and do nothing all day. I know what the answer will be even if you don't...you will put me in the Gulag or put a bullet in the back of my head.

As I have already said....There will be people who do take advantage of situations....there always has been and there probablly always will be....but it's not about forcing people it's more about showing compassion and realizing there can be a better way.

Let's imagine for a minute....put yourself in anothers shoes....you are a citizen of Sudan.....you are a mother or father....your oldest sons have been tortured and shot.....your village burnt to the ground..... your daughters aged six, eight and twelve have been raped and beaten and one of them has dissapeared.....now you sit in the middle of the desert having been run out of what remains of your village by gun toting militia who shoot dozens of bullets into your wife or husband as you flee...you hold in your arms your two remaining children......they are crying for need of food and water.... all around you is human excrement for lack of sanitation......dead, rotting carcasses of animals.....you know it's only time now before death ends the sufffering of your children and you see it as a blessing.
Now....let's get back to reality.....you're sitting at home.....it's a little hot today so you turn on your airconditioner.....bit hungry....look in the fridge...it's pretty full but nothing takes your fancy......so you go out for MacDonalds....order too much...eyes were bigger than your stomach...so you throw the half eaten remains in the bin.
Can you imagine the horror on the faces of the poor starving people in Sudan and all over the world, when they haven't eaten in weeks, to see the amount of food that we, who are more fortunate, throw in the garbage. It is just not right.

I think the better answer is to let capitialist stooges create new things to solve problems.

Well I'm thinking that may be part of the problem. We allow desicions to be made by the "Capitalist stooges"and they do not seem to be making the right desicions......some of them do have the interest of the human race in their hearts but, sadly, I think all too many have personal gain in mind.

Freemark, can you think more about this question for me as I appreciate your opinion and need a few other minds to work on it.

Q: What do you think we as a human race can do to unite as a world population and ensure ,without discrimination, that every man, woman and
child has clean water, food, shelter, clothing and healthcare?
[
B]
...look up in goolgle "Dwarf Wheat India"

And thanks I will look it up!

Reply #12 August 27, 2004 1:01 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Peter,

For one man to profit another man must starve.

Wrong. People do not need to starve we just let it happen....

I do not care if people starve in order for me to make a profit, they are insignificant to me.

Have you no heart? Put yourself in the situation of someone less fortunate....would it not revolt you to hear someone say that.
Because it revolts me and I am no where near starving.
You know things have a way of coming round to people and I'm sure you'll get yours eventually and wont you wish you had been a decent person.

As long as I have caviar and lobster on my dining table every night I don't care if a few peasants have to go without.

OK Mr mightier than all others....I have a challenge for you....I challenge you to masquerade as a so called "Peasant" and see for yourself before you judge so harshly. A week in the life of a peasant, no more no less, and then I would like to hear what you have to say!

Reply #13 August 27, 2004 1:10 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Nmrhth,

well, kind of. ideally, everyone would have some minimum level of living including food, water, clothing, and shelter. then, if you wanted to have more, you would be free to attempt that.

Very well said.....couldn't have put it better myself!

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink

maybe. not if the population of asia and africa continues to grow at its current rate and under the same corrupt governments. if it is possible, it will not happen for a very long time.

Hmmmm...there are a lot of factors to take into consideration and one of the most difficult, as I can see, will be 'corrupt governments' as it will be hard to help people in need if you have to fight there own governments to do so. This is exactly what is happening in Sudan for a current example and it is causing it to be very dangerous for aid workers to get in there and save these people.

Reply #14 August 27, 2004 1:10 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Nmrhth,

well, kind of. ideally, everyone would have some minimum level of living including food, water, clothing, and shelter. then, if you wanted to have more, you would be free to attempt that.

Very well said.....couldn't have put it better myself!

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink

maybe. not if the population of asia and africa continues to grow at its current rate and under the same corrupt governments. if it is possible, it will not happen for a very long time.

Hmmmm...there are a lot of factors to take into consideration and one of the most difficult, as I can see, will be 'corrupt governments' as it will be hard to help people in need if you have to fight there own governments to do so. This is exactly what is happening in Sudan for a current example and it is causing it to be very dangerous for aid workers to get in there and save these people.

Reply #15 August 27, 2004 8:55 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

You should check out Sir. Peter's website and you will see that taking what he says seriously or at face value is kind of fruitless. I actually think the guy behind the mask might sympathize with your views...or they are trying to build a brillant satircal reputation.

Crusader, you and are not going to come to agreement because you see the results of the problem and think that is the problem and I think there is something deeper going on but oh well:

everyone deserves the basic needs of food, water, shelter, healthcare
Who says they deserve it? I think it is far better that they earn it. If there situation is such that it is impossible for them to earn it then are they not in a better place to change that then me? If I were that man in Sudan as you want me to be I would kill or die in order to change my situation. Just because you physically put me there doesn't change my mindset. If you want to believe the man is so supressed that he cannot change his situation then I suggest he is better off dead. Better dead than a slave.

If I were that man in the Sudan I wouldn't want your food or your clean water. I would rather you sent me a gun and a lot of bullets. I would strive to build a better system where noone has to exist for the benefit of anyone but themselves. That is the antithesis of what I think you are working at. I wouldn't want your charity because it is part of the problem.

You see the effects of the problem and think that is the problem. The problem isn't starving people and oppression. It is corrupt governments and nobody doing anything about it. If you want the western governments to solve this problem then I suggest that requires a lot of people booting up and invading every corrupt government. Maybe that is the answer...but I don't think so.

Ultimately the people have to decide for themselves.

I don't think starvation and famine are natural occurances...they are man made. They are not made by the fact that I throw half of my big mac away they are created by people being oppressed so that they don't have the freedom to achieve for themselves.

Why do I believe this...
India has less land and more population than Africa yet it feeds itself.
Egypt has among the least amount of arable land in Africa yet it feeds itself (in fact I have eaten exported Egyptian strawberries...they were delicious and I ate more than I really needed)

So the problem isn't land and it isn't population...its people. People are almost always the problem.

So in my mind sending aid and comfort to corrupt nations that can't feed themselves is actually helping these corrupt nations continue. When the situation is as dire as you want to believe it is...I have faith in my fellow human beings and they will change it. It will be violent and bloody and, in my opinion, absolutely necessary. But until they do it on their own we can't help them...we can only hurt them.

That's what I think.

Maybe this makes me selfish and hearltess and evil but I would rather look at a man who helps himself and see him as a brother and an equal than look down on someone I have "helped" because he can't help himself.

Reply #16 August 27, 2004 9:18 AM from

JoeUser Forums Top

1. Your age: 16

2. Male / Female: Female

3. Country / State / Town: US/Kentucky/Lexington

4. Occupation: Secretary/Electrician's Assistant

5. How many hours do you work in an average week? 35-40

6. Is this the occupation you envisioned for yourself when at school? no... I'm actually going to school in the fall of '06 for English Lit

7. Idealistically, what occupation would you have if you had the choice? English/ English Lit teacher

8. Did you have a happy childhood? of course

9. Why was your childhood happy / unhappy? well... I can't say exactly, I was just a happy-go-lucky kid

10. What do you do for enjoyment / relaxation? I read, write, sleep, and talk on the phone

11. Idealistically, what would you like to do for enjoyment / relaxation if you had the choice? Absolutely nothing at all, just sitting on the couch and watching some boring tv show... that's something I never have time for

12. Who would you take with you for and all expenses paid holiday with ten of your family or friends and why? I would take my friends, my family seems to stress things out way to much and make what is supposed to be a fun holiday/vacation and turn it into the holiday/vacation from hell.

13. What is the most precious, important item you own and why? my engagement/promise ring, because it's a sign that someday I'll be part of a new family, one of my own.

14. If the world was going to explode and you had the chance to save ten people by escaping in a space ship, who

would you save and why? Oh geeze.... um... Aric (boyfriend), Bridget (best friend), Andy (Best friend's boyfriend), Michelle (friend), Brandon, Ashley, My mom, My dad, My brother and I don't know who else...

15. Do you have any animals? I have a dog

16. What sort of relationship do you have with your animals? (eg. are they family members or are they guard dogs, horses

for sport etc.) um................. i guess a family member...

17. Do you struggle to pay your bills? Unfortunately, I can't answer this question, ask me again in a month and I'll let you know.

18. Can you afford to buy healthy, nutritional food for yourself and your family? Sure

19. What is an example of your average shopping list? (eg. milk , bread, cheese, eggs, peanut butter, chicken....etc) I don't have an average shopping list yet

20. Does your shopping last until the next shop or does it run out before? If so, by when has it run out? This is my first day out of my parent's house.. so I really can't answer that

21. What do you see as important in life? (eg. family, social life, money, friends, sport ...etc) um, Aric and my friends

22. Do you think we could have a system in the world without money? (eg. barter, sharing) no

23. Do you think it is unfair that there are people starving and dying in the world when there are so many individual

millionaires and billionaires and billion dollar companies? Yes, if the millionaires and billionaires would just give a little bit of money here and there, I think the world would be a better place

24. Do you think we have the potential as the human race to ensure every man, women and child has clean water to drink

and decent food to eat? Honestly.... I think we do. A little effort can go a long way

25. Do you have the attitude "charity starts at home" or do you help other when you can? I help when I see a need.

Reply #17 August 27, 2004 7:18 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

FreeMark,

Crusader, you and are not going to come to agreement because you see the results of the problem and think that is the problem and I think there is something deeper going on but oh well:

Can you explain further.......please...

everyone deserves the basic needs of food, water, shelter, healthcare

Who says they deserve it? I think it is far better that they earn it.

Well.......do you think the world would be a better place today if from birth EVERY child, without discrimination, had at least three decent meals a day and clean water to drink.
Would that not make everyones lives easier and more enjoyable and therefore affect the nature of man and perhaps that would be a cataclyst for other problems we have?

If I were that man in Sudan as you want me to be I would kill or die in order to change my situation. Just because you physically put me there doesn't change my mindset. If you want to believe the man is so supressed that he cannot change his situation then I suggest he is better off dead. Better dead than a slave.

For starters....I don't want you to be that man I just want you to put yurself in his shoes for a brief moment in time and maybe it will let you appreciate what you do have....and maybe you wont feel so bad that you don't have that mansion in the hills....sports car in the drive.....and whatever else you may crave. And yes, he is suppressed but do you really think he would turn his back on a stranger who tries to unshackle his chains? Is he better off dead from his point of view or yours?

If I were that man in the Sudan I wouldn't want your food or your clean water. I would rather you sent me a gun and a lot of bullets. I would strive to build a better system where noone has to exist for the benefit of anyone but themselves. That is the antithesis of what I think you are working at. I wouldn't want your charity because it is part of the problem.

The nature of man....fear....anger...and pride. So if I came to you as this man in the desert....a harmless female aid worker....you are resting against a tree stump.....you have been shot and are weak from loss of blood....and have not eaten for weeks....it is hot and you have no shade to cool you....no water.....you are alone....I walk over to you slowly and kneel down beside you......we don't speak the same language but you can see in my eyes and body language that I mean you no harm.....I have a canteen of water...and offer it to you.....does pride make you refuse a gesture of compassion?
How is charity part of the problem?

You see the effects of the problem and think that is the problem. The problem isn't starving people and oppression. It is corrupt governments and nobody doing anything about it. If you want the western governments to solve this problem then I suggest that requires a lot of people booting up and invading every corrupt government. Maybe that is the answer...but I don't think so.

I do understand the effects are not the source of the problem......as I realize it is a method of control. The governments have control because we let them. Why? Because it's easier. It's easier to be a sheep in the herd, not drawing attention to oneself and following the herder obediently so as not to be singled out for the slaughter house.
I don't think sending western governments in guns blazing will work....it has never worked and never will. That is why we have to try something different. We need to lose our fear....let go of it.....because fears natural response is to be on the offensive...get him before he gets me.

Ultimately the people have to decide for themselves

Exactly. Thankyou. That is exactly what needs to be done.....the masses need to speak out......and it will take every abled bodied man and women......not for physical war.....but a battle of minds....everyone must be convinced to make a different path for the greater good.
It certainly wont be simple but we have to start at some point or our world is lost.

So the problem isn't land and it isn't population...its people. People are almost always the problem.

Your absolutely right. We are the problem.......I have a saying..."For Everyone to be happy...Everyone must be happy', sounds a little too simple huh?!
Imagine what a paradise Planet Earth would be without humans........

So in my mind sending aid and comfort to corrupt nations that can't feed themselves is actually helping these corrupt nations continue. When the situation is as dire as you want to believe it is...I have faith in my fellow human beings and they will change it. It will be violent and bloody and, in my opinion, absolutely necessary. But until they do it on their own we can't help them...we can only hurt them.

I'm not saying we should go through these corrupt governments with aid but to somehow go right to the people where it is needed....ofcourse it will be difficult but there must be a way.
FreeMark, you are a fellow human being and I have faith in you and you need to be part of the change....we all need to. If we all turn our heads at the same time and face the problem united and we all do something about it at the same time as a world population....ignoring the countries that divide us.....we can do it...and it doesn't need to be violent and bloody...in fact it can't because that will be perpetuating old problems and we must go forward into unchartered waters.

Maybe this makes me selfish and hearltess and evil but I would rather look at a man who helps himself and see him as a brother and an equal than look down on someone I have "helped" because he can't help himself.

I don't see you as selfish, heartless and evil but I do think you may need to re evaluate just a little....these people are born into these situations they do not choose it by making the wrong desicions....they are born to it...little babes....have you ever held a newborn, FreeMark? So vulnerable and dependent. And they grow and learn to accept their lives no matter how tragic. And their children inherit the same downtrodden lives. Do you look down on these babes, FreeMark, who are a victim of circumstance?

FreeMark, I really appreciate your comments as they lead me down paths I never would have thought to travel and I would enjoy more lengthy writings from you as your perspective, as others, is invaluable.
Will be keeping an eye out for you!

Reply #18 August 27, 2004 7:35 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Ashlee Ryder,
Whoa...that's a lot of hours work in the week for someone so young (no disrespect intended). Secretary, electricians assistant and school....you must be one motivated individual!
Why do YOU think we can't have a world without money? Do you see there to be no attainable alternative?
If you could imagine the perfict world through your eyes... what would it be?

Your opinion is as paramount as everyones, Ashlee, and if you can....please bestow upon me some more....I would appreciate it!

Reply #19 August 30, 2004 9:02 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Please feel free to focus and comment on any of the questions further as your
opinion can only educate and enlighten others ...

Reply #20 September 4, 2004 9:21 PM from

JoeUser Forums Top

Hello....ello.....llo.....lo......o
What a shame I guess this is just not important enough to comment on.........