Bay Area Harerian Discussion Group

"Afocha" Split

Here you may have your say if and ony if you have knowledge of what has transpired before the split of the "Afocha" and what ideas you may have to unit the two.
14,594 views 81 replies
Reply #4 Top
for more info. Here is a Link
http://ba-hararian.com/New_Forum_frm.htm
Reply #5 Top
FOR SJ1, RETHINK YOUR................
From: Ras M
Date: 24 Apr 2004
Time: 21:10:21


Comments
I think SJ1 is a Major “Fluky” himself. He is perhaps clueless of his own aims and goals. I hope he doesn't get mad at me! Initially, SJ1 started out with a great “bang” but the bang failed far shorter than most pleasant expectations. He started out as someone with a "wicked" strategy to unravel the mysteries. But as his strategy began to unfold, in a mind numbing slow pace, it proved to be too much in bravado (A pretense of courage; a false show of bravery) and too little in substance. SJ1: You have mentioned all the principals by name and put forth your inquires to them but so far “we” have seen no response; although one may argue that there has been responses to all your inquires but coming in a form of deafening silence. SJ1: I think you should devise another “wicked” strategy, what do you think? I think you should, but this time, right off the bat, reveal your identity as to encourage people to respond to your inquires. One more thing, retire the word “Fluky” from your future posts. Just being helpful, feel free to tell me to get lost. Till next time, Happy hunting! Note: Before you get your panties in a bunch about the word "wicked", let me say that the word usage is in slang form to mean …Strikingly good, effective, or skillful; not its formal usage which means....Evil by nature and Evil by practice.


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Last changed: May 16, 2004
Reply #6 Top
Re: bahc
From: Ras M
Date: 24 Apr 2004
Time: 21:11:25


Comments
I think SJ1 is a Major “Fluky” himself. He is perhaps clueless of his own aims and goals. I hope he doesn't get mad at me! Initially, SJ1 started out with a great “bang” but the bang failed far shorter than most pleasant expectations. He started out as someone with a "wicked" strategy to unravel the mysteries. But as his strategy began to unfold, in a mind numbing slow pace, it proved to be too much in bravado (A pretense of courage; a false show of bravery) and too little in substance. SJ1: You have mentioned all the principals by name and put forth your inquires to them but so far “we” have seen no response; although one may argue that there has been responses to all your inquires but coming in a form of deafening silence. SJ1: I think you should devise another “wicked” strategy, what do you think? I think you should, but this time, right off the bat, reveal your identity as to encourage people to respond to your inquires. One more thing, retire the word “Fluky” from your future posts. Just being helpful, feel free to tell me to get lost. Till next time, Happy hunting! Note: Before you get your panties in a bunch about the word "wicked", let me say that the word usage is in slang form to mean …Strikingly good, effective, or skillful; not its formal usage which means....Evil by nature and Evil by practice.
Reply #7 Top
To SJ1: Are you keeping..............
From: Ras M
Date: 12 Apr 2004
Time: 00:02:46


Comments
To SJ1: Are you keeping count on responses elicited by your inquiries? Until now, I recall only two individuals responding promptly. Needless to say, we are all anxiously waiting to hear from those you have already mentioned and yet to mention with respect to your inquiry. If circumstances are such that your inquiries are met with deafening silence, I hope you have plans in the pipeline on how to awaken those who are pretending to be sound asleep.


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Last changed: May 16, 2004
Reply #8 Top
a big "thumbs up"
From: Ras M
Date: 11 Apr 2004
Time: 02:34:13


Comments
GOOD TO BE BACK, Brother Siraj! you have done well in your attempt to clear your name. I also would like to give a big "thumbs up" for the EXECUTIVE of BAHC for their prompt handling of the matter.


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Last changed: May 16, 2004
Reply #9 Top
RE: INVITATION DAY
From: M. Omar
Date: 07 Apr 2004
Time: 20:49:22


Comments
I have been contacted by interested individuals who are responding in kind to my invite however, they informed me that the chosen day (Saturday) will not be convenient for most NCHA members, who would be busy/unavailable for the next few Saturdays. I was told that they would be in rehearsals for an upcoming event. So let us make different arrangement! Please provide me with some input in regards to your availabilities. Thanks. FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME WITH ANY INPUT YOU MAY HAVE. [email protected]


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Last changed: May 10, 2004
Reply #10 Top
Re: Invitation
From: M. Omar
Date: 07 Apr 2004
Time: 16:05:43


Comments
I have been contacted by interested individuals who are willing to take me up on the invite but Saturday will not be convenient for NCHA members for they will be busy for the next few Saturdays. I was told that they will be in rehearsals for upcoming event. So let us come to a different arrangement. Please provide some input!!! Thanks. FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME WITH ANY INPUT. [email protected]


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Last changed: May 10, 2004
Reply #11 Top
Invitation!! re: e-mail
From: M. Omar
Date: 06 Apr 2004
Time: 18:01:18


Comments
Soory, forgot to leave my e-mail for those of you who may need direction. [email protected]


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Last changed: May 14, 2004
Reply #12 Top
Invitation!!
From: M. Omar
Date: 06 Apr 2004
Time: 17:49:39


Comments
All willing parties are welcomed!! Remember, I don’t have any expectation that “we” are going to solve these problems on a first try. It will require some time and the first step is to break the ice, get together and see where we go from there. I don’t have the magical solution but I am hopeful a good start may lead us somewhere. Look at it this way, just old friends getting together!! The invitation starts this Saturday and will be open for all subsequent Saturdays, of course unless something else comes up. Those who are interested to come and don’t know my address, may e-mail me for direction. Don’t worry I will take care of the cookies!


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Last changed: May 10, 2004
Reply #13 Top
Altering course
From: M. Omar
Date: 05 Apr 2004
Time: 18:33:05


Comments
To all persons involved in the BAHC Discussion Forum!! Are you REALY interested in addressing the issues CONFRONTING your communities? If so the methods employed by all of you aren’t going to achieve the goals you are seeking. Example: All of you, of course with some exception, are using surrogate names or no names at all but at times you mention individual names, yet nobody knows who you are, if they don't know your identity, why should they respond to your inquires or allegations in kind or seriously? Be sensible! I think the way this discussion is taking place, it is unlikely to produce anything meaningful but further inflames the already volatile issue. Tell me to get lost if you want!! It is time to try something new, which doesn't involve name-calling or assigning undo blame to people. I also believe the entity responsible for the “Discussion Forum” should rethink the usefulness of this forum by evaluating its achievements thus far. [email protected]


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Last changed: May 10, 2004
Reply #14 Top
Re: Fluky # 3, here you have it!
From: Ras M
Date: 05 Apr 2004
Time: 18:02:28


Comments
Mr. SJ1, are you interested in addressing the issue? If so your methods aren't going to achieve the goals you are seeking. You are mentioning names of individuals, yet nobody knows who you are, if they don't know your identity, why should they respond to your inquires? Be sensible! I think the way this discussion is taking place, it is unlikely to produce anything meaningful but further inflames the already volatile issue. Tell me to get lost if you want!! It is time to try something new, which doesn't involve name-calling or assigning undo blame to people. I also believe the entity responsible for the “Discussion Forum” should rethink the usefulness of this forum by evaluating its achievements thus far. [email protected]


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Last changed: May 10, 2004
Reply #15 Top
“What are the facts”
From: Ras M
Date: 26 Mar 2004
Time: 21:55:36


Comments
First, before I answer your“ where is the truth!” question, let me say that you are asking the wrong question. I think you are confusing the word Truth with the word Facts. When asking Where is the truth! Are you expecting an answer? If you were then you would have to wait for eternity, I don’t think you have that kind of time. Maybe you meant to ask, “What are the facts” For there is a difference in meaning between Truth and Facts. Facts: Knowledge or information based on real occurrences. Truth=Reality=actuality: That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence. Too deep, isn’t? Truth is the one and only ultimate reality known only to the almighty not to temporal beings like us that are confined in time. Here are the facts: First started out as a dispute on how the then newly elected executive committee was elected; in other words, some afocha members and some out going committee members raised a procedural issue as to how this new committee was elected. Pay attention here… I am getting to the genesis of the divide. Like I said, objections were raised on procedures used of the election. So why, one may ask, would that be a cause to split the afocha in two, but one may not have the details of what followed. It is said that “the devil is in the details” and conversely, in this case, the details are the functions of egotistical and unrepentant individuals. Here are the details: The procedural issue didn’t split the afocha, what split the afocha was that how, when and where the procedural issue was raised and events that followed. Let me give you a back ground for those of you who really want to understand the issue: 1) All members of the Afocha were assembled to elect new executive committee members. 2) The election committee presented the nominees. 3) The assembled Afocha members as well as the old executive members took part in the vote. Some nominees stated their unwillingness to serve and were excused. The remaining nominees, with out objection, were accepted by all the members, not by casting individual vote for every nominee but by ways of unanimous hand clapping; the election committee asked if there were any objections to any of the nominees and no member objected. 4) The old executive committee transferred all responsibilities and relevant documents to the newly elected executive committee. 5) The all member meeting adjourned. All seemed well at the conclusion of the meeting but few new what was to follow. Because in the periods to follow, some old executive and afocha members got together in a coffee shop, even invited some, not all, of the new executive members to question the legitimacy of the elected committee members, which they played a part in electing. Some member(s) upon learning the purpose of the meeting at the coffee shop, questioned the legitimacy of the meeting and refused to take part. Afterward a general member meeting was called to address this new development. Naturally the new executive members as well as some afocha members felt insulted about this new development. The behavior and temperament of the players on both sides, during this meeting, needless to say, lead the Afochas where they are today. These are facts that no side dare dispute. When I use words like egotistical and unrepentant to describe the people who I call the players, it isn’t meant to insult them but to make a point and most importantly to identify the forces at work. These words (egotistical and unrepentant) symbolize or represent some aspects of the human character and these were the characters that triumphed and lead to the split. Unrepentant: Having or exhibiting no remorse. Egotistical: Characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance Those who want to understand and contribute, feel free to engage in a constructive dialogue but those who don’t have anything useful to say, please, you don’t have to get involved. As for my involvement, it is pure of sinister motives. I don’t have a Dog in this fight nor do I have an ax to grind, what I have instead is a desire to put an end to this On-Line drama; maybe, even bury the hatchet once and for all. I know almost all of you guys, at least the old timers. I am sure it is emotionally draining investing all this time and energy on an everlasting On Line drama just so be nasty to each other. I like a good drama as much as the next guy but all good or bad dramas eventually must come to an end. I don’t think it is particularly good for your kids who, at one point or another, are exposed to this On Line drama. You have been at an impasse for a long time on resolving your problem, thus, I have a compromise that not only works but also make both sides equally unhappy because that is the only true and meaning full compromise. Please remember, no useful things to say then say noting at all. Work for compromise!! Below is my real name and e-mail [email protected] AKA Ras M


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Last changed: May 14, 2004
Reply #16 Top
Re: Where is
From: SJC
Date: 25 Mar 2004
Time: 23:32:46


Comments
You really want to know!! I will tell you how the afocha split. First started out as a dispute on how the then newly elected executive committee was elected; in other words, some afocha members and some from the out going committee members raised a procedural issue as to how these new committee was elected. Pay attention here… for I am getting to the genesis/origin of the divide. Like I said, objection was raised on the procedure of the election. So why, one may ask, would that be a cause to split the afocha in two, but one doesn’t have the details of what followed. It is said the devil is in the details and conversely, in this case, the details are the functions of egotistical and unrepentant individuals…sorry I have to go now but stay tuned for the details.

Reply #17 Top
Telling it like it is!
From: Ignite
Date: 25 Jun 2004
Time: 18:14:16


Comments
Why don’t you stop all the theatrical production on this forum and deal with the problems/issues where it matters the most, within your own particular Afochas. I assume your Afochas hold regular meetings, I further assume that there are people on both sides who are concerned and willing to address the issues. Given that my assumptions are correct, then you (the members) should raise these issues during these meetings and demand that your Afocha leaders work actively to address them. That is the only effective way to address your problems/issues and bring about a lasting resolution. The idea that you would solve your problems by engaging each other on this forum is an erroneous perception of reality.


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Last changed: June 25, 2004
Reply #18 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: your community
Date: 25 Jun 2004
Time: 19:50:09


Comments
So, you’re the igniter who ignites the ignition with out any clue. Listen up buddy, according to your comment; I had come up to the conclusion that we both belong to the same AFOCHAs. No doubt you understand what I meant by the same AFOCHAs. Let me ask you this, would you please tell me if our elected officials have taken any kind (if there is one) action since this issue has started. I doubt it. Let us ask our selves, how many of us had replied to brother Mohammed Mulat’s invitation. Remember that? If not, I advise you that you should go back and read it. That will give you a glimpse of the whole matters. All I have to say is it is easy to criticize other without knowing the core of the problem. Let’s look at our selves before pointing our fingers to some one else. Don’t you think this is the only avenue to solve our issues with out fearing one another? Let’s all fear Allah and stand up for what is right.


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Last changed: June 25, 2004
Reply #19 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Ignite
Date: 26 Jun 2004
Time: 17:44:10


Comments
I believe you are missing the point. The points I was making were: 1) Hold your Afocha leaders accountable. 2) Best to address the issues within your particular Afochas first. 3) By way of this forum you would not be able to solve you problems. If you have issues with the above-mentioned three points then have your say so, all else is just a drama.


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Last changed: June 26, 2004
Reply #20 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From:
Date: 27 Jun 2004
Time: 18:34:04


Comments
Ignite, I agree with your points 1 & 2 . But the 3rd point you made needs elaboration. What is the purpose this discussion Forum? What is it for or who is it for? Got me kind of confused! You mean never address your problems/issues or niether try to solve them here because it will be drama or Theatrical production.


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Last changed: June 27, 2004
Reply #21 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Ignite
Date: 27 Jun 2004
Time: 22:11:05


Comments
When I said, "By way of this forum you would not be able to solve you problems. If you have issues with the above-mentioned three points then have your say so, all else is just a drama." what I mean is, it is not going to be fruitful. I will give you three reasons why: 1) you are making an assumption that most or all members from both Afochas are actively taking part in this forum. 2) Everyone partaking in this forum does so with good intentions. 3) The purpose of any forum is to start a conversation and then bring like-minded individuals together to accomplish the subject mater that the forum is trying to address. Since the forum started, we have not seen any useful out come so far.


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Last changed: June 27, 2004
Reply #22 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Harari
Date: 28 Jun 2004
Time: 14:37:05


Comments
Ignite, for the most part, you are right. But if we use a little bit of common sense, do not you think, it is the responsibly of the leaders to act on our behalf to do the right thing? When we talk community matter, the right thing means 1, Obligation & performing according to our charter 2, Listen to the members & respond to their concern 3, Most importantly, to work towards bringing all Hararis closer. Correct me if I am wrong. We are where we are today because of these Leaders negligence of the issue. I don’t know why a very basic but vital request became complex issue! What should we do with kind of leaders (Both Afochas leaders)???


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Last changed: June 28, 2004
Reply #23 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Ignite
Date: 29 Jun 2004
Time: 17:41:17


Comments
I agree it is the responsibility of the leaders to act to correct the problems facing your communities, likewise, it is equally the responsibility of the members to see to it that their leaders are held accountable in their failures and applauded in their accomplishment. I will leave you with this saying, “people are deserving of the leaders they got”


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Last changed: June 29, 2004
Reply #24 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Harari
Date: 01 Jul 2004
Time: 20:03:20


Comments
Good God help us! If you (Ignite) follow the whole “drama” as you said it, do you recall all the plea and remarkable suggestions to initiate dialog were presented by many members, as their civic duty as HARARIS? Also, as you well know the leaders (both) has shunt the their responsibility and turned their face away from us. Now, honestly, if you are a truly concerned, how can you say, “People are deserving of the leaders they got” in this time and age, instead of asking for justice for all!!! Since we are all brothers and sisters, keep in mind that, our every action (good or bad) has a reciprocal effect on both sides.


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Last changed: July 01, 2004
Reply #25 Top
Re: Telling it like it is!
From: Ignite
Date: 05 Jul 2004
Time: 00:43:23


Comments
To Harari, for your 01 Jul 2004 post: You said: “Now, honestly, if you are a truly concerned, how can you say, People are deserving of the leaders they got, in this time and age, instead of asking for justice for all!!!” O.K Mr./Ms. Harari, please allow me to explain! The expression: “people are deserving of the leaders they got” is meant to communicate a concept. The Concept is “You can only get out of it, what you put into it.” In other words, if you have good leadership you are deserving of it because you played a part in making sure of it. If you have bad leadership you are deserving of it as well because you played no part to ensure good leadership. The reason for my desire to communicate this concept was your Jun. 28 posting where you said: “Correct me if I am wrong. We are where we are today because of these Leaders negligence of the issue. I don’t know why a very basic but vital request became complex issue! What should we do with kind of leaders (Both Afochas leaders)??? “ Mr./Ms. Harari you ensure good leadership by being engaged in the process, by setting goals and raising expectations for your leaders and measuring their successes through fulfilled expectation and measure their failures through unfulfilled expectations. And holding them accountable for their failures and applauding their met expectations. Sitting by the sideline and complaining about their bad leadership doesn’t contribute anything toward their effectiveness but surely contributes to their ineffectiveness. Good day!!!


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Last changed: July 05, 2004