China would Whip the americans ass!

You're absolutely right. I always have said that China is the one to watch. Talk about an "Evil Empire," China gives the term Evil Empire a whole new meaning. The Chinese people are little more than a bunch of Godless heathen. They have been setting back for years quite as mice, watching the events in the world unfold and all the while multiplying like rabbits. Just pick up anything at random in a store today and see where its made. China, China, China...
The Chinese are very cunning. Just like a snake they set back and wait for just the right time to pounce on it's prey.
The reason the world community sets back and says nothing is because they want to continue to exist. They know that China could easily crush any nation or nations that would dare stand in their way. Lets just hope that we're all dead and gone before that day comes. GCJ

Interesting comments GemCityJoe.

So do you think there is a little bit of hypocracy going here???

Just a thought.. Im interested to see what people think about this issue.

They know that China could easily crush any nation or nations that would dare stand in their way.

So where does standing up for democracy go in this instance? When a nation is willing to massacre its own people, shouldnt the rest of the world do something about it, just like we are doing with Iraq for the same reasons?

Of course the Chinese Government is barbaric and a threat to world peace, but don't expect us to ever do anything about it.

China has nukes and probably no problem with using them.
Economically -- forget oil, do you know how much cheap junk we import from China and how much cheap labor they provide us? The "industrial/military complex" has more to lose than gain on that transaction.

Despite the rhetoric, we're not interested in spreading freedom if it messes with "our interests." (Or we'd have taken out Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq.)

If I remember Revelations correctly (and you'll excuse some Biblical prophecy) China is supposed to go marching into the middle east just before Armageddon. Not a pretty picture.

Of course the Chinese Government is barbaric and a threat to world peace, but don't expect us to ever do anything about it.

Why not?

China has nukes and probably no problem with using them.

Exactly my point.

do you know how much cheap junk we import from China and how much cheap labor they provide us? The "industrial/military complex" has more to lose than gain on that transaction.

So who really rules the world?

Despite the rhetoric, we're not interested in spreading freedom if it messes with "our interests

Double standards no?

do you know how much cheap junk we import from China and how much cheap labor they provide us?

i went shopping today and really noticed this.. its so noticable... even with the most expensive labels.
But isnt this just globalisation at work?

Link
Information on the biggest army in the world.

I notice the amount of criticism of Michael Moores recent film, and the reasons people think he is a propagandanist etc.. I also notice the silence that this post on China has recieved. There is no consistancy within this community. What is the difference between Iraq and China?
China would whip the americans ass..the Iraqis had no chance.
Its a case of we can do it to you but dont think about doing it to us. I feel a big smack of karma coming around.

Just like how countries will stop genocide when it's happening in Europe, but couldn't careless when it happens in Africa. The US definitely should have shown some consistency and either prevented genocide from occurring in Africa or not help stop the genocide that happened in Europe.

     Easy to answer the main thrust of this article. China has to get off of it's landmass to do much of anything right now. Could it invade say.. Siberia? possibly but the economic fallout from this makes it unliekly in the extreme. Will it cross the straights? Not a chance. A marine operation of the size necessary is impossible with China's dismal naval capacity and would be much liek shooting ducks in a pond. The "human wave" approach is no longer effective against today's weaponry and dramatically improved ammo supply. We wil let China rot until it's old guard die off and are slowly replaced with progressives. Done and done. Anyone who thinks that either Iraq or China's conventional force has even a tiny chance of succeeding against the US in open combat knows little to nothing about modern warfare.

    The WMD threat? The difference is right here. China not only has *confirmed* WMD but they have so bloody many of the damn things that a preemptive strike is unfeasable. Take off the blinders folks. Deal in the real.

But Greywar didnt Iraq invade Kuwait? Didnt China invade Tibet? So where is the difference here when it comes to consistency? We have a nation here Tibet with its leader the Dalai Lama asking the international community for help in resolving this issue but there is total silence. Why? Im asking these questins because I want to understand.

Just like how countries will stop genocide when it's happening in Europe, but couldn't careless when it happens in Africa

One is majority Black the other is Majority White. Does this make a difference?

You don't really have much concept of war on that scale. The fact that you can ask the question is pretty telling. When we finished unseating Hussein, there were people still alive in Iraq. The goal was not to destroy Iraq, but to remove Hussein. Decapitating China would require destruction of a scale beyond any war the world has seen. Afterward, the Chinese probably wouldn't be very open to suggestion.

Silly thought, actually, but I'll indulge you.. The difference? Millions of casualties instead of thousands. Literally, millions. Probably tens of millions, on either side. I think it is pretty starry-eyed to think the size of the army is going to have anything to do with it. A conflict with China would come down to first strike and stealth capability. The first one to do insane, crippling damage would win. In my opinion the US is more prepared to do so.

The days of ICBMs are over, but many, many of the "smart" munitions we have been pounding Iraq and Afghanistan with can be refitted for non-conventional payloads. Instead of a cruise missile sliding along under the radar and destroying one building, it would destroy an entire city. With bases throughout the Pacific, we easily have the capability to cause horrific casualties in a very short amount of time.

In terms of our most dangerous technology I am not aware that China has equivalents. They are huge military technology exporters, and I am unaware of Chinese stealth technology, for instance. They don't have planes that can touch the Raptor that is going into production in the US. Tanks and infantry are both moot, because they'll never be able to use them. Bussing hundreds of thousands of soldiers across the Pacific and putting infantry on the ground is laughable for either side.

It would be over, and over quickly with much sorrow on either side. If not sufficiently crippled, they might just start lobbing big nukes in retaliation, and I don't think anyone knows what would happen in that event.

Iraq was a nation that we had the ability to effect change in with minimal casualties and damage. China isn't. Seems like common sense to me. if our purpose was to kill as many Chinese as possible, we could certainly "do well", but as a method of effecting political change it would be pointless. If that had been our purpose in Iraq it could have been over in hours or minutes.

So why don't we attack China? It would be pointless. Good enough?

So why don't we attack China? It would be pointless. Good enough?

I agree with you. It would be pointless, and im not advocating the US attack China. What Im wondering is.. what is the difference between what was happening in Iraq and what is happening right now in China? Im interested is it only because of the scale of destruction it would cause or is it because of the principle behind the war in the first place?

      The difference is the consequence of the action phoenix. The consequences of trying to force China out of Tibet would be radically different than the consequences were for forcing Iraq out of Kuwait. The two military situations are so different that it is pointless to try and draw paralells. China could in no way stand up to us in conventional force but it *could* wreak mass havoc on civilian populaces with it's well developed WMD program. Preventing another country from obtaining this form of detent is *exactly* why we went into Iraq.

      While the Ideals behind the potential ouster of each invader nation would be similar that simple real world facts make doing one feasable and the other not. I do not deal in the ideal very often. My job is the Real.

 

edit : Apologies for the ridiculous multipost. I have seen it happen a  few times but thats the first one for me.

Even if we won hands down, it would do nothing to change the political climate there.

In China, no matter how abusive and insane their system is, most people there are comfortable with it, and believe it to be "right". We hear horror stories, but for the most part they don't, and they are led to believe that the the lack of what we call horror is the cause of our ills. Even those who hate their government there don't consider themselves in need of "liberation", I think.

Iraqis weren't brainwashed, however, they were just either benefitting greatly from the abuses, or paralyzed with fear. I don't think anyone there really believed that Hussein was a wonderful leader, they just didn't have any choice. They had *zero* hope of peaceful change in their country, and zero chance of any sort of internal uprising.

The Chinese are a political people, with great faith in their system. It isn't based around a dictator as you imply. It is a full-fledged political system, even if we don't agree with it.

I hate the Chinese government, with a visceral, tangible hate, but I don't think there are many there that have the same sentiment. At worst they want serious reform. They don't want to be liberated. I suppose that is the most overwhelming difference. Iraqis are happy to be rid of Hussein, happy to be starting over, even if they don't like us any better.

Thanks Greywar and BakerStreet.

I am very passionate about the plight of the Tibetans. I think what has happened there and is continuing to happen is totally barbaric and displays the very intent of the chinese government with their reunification of the "motherland" policy. I've been reading the Peoples Republic newspaper online and it is very eye opening to say the least on their views on what is happening in their own country and what is happening in the rest of the world.

I think it is one "evil" the world needs to rid itself of. How? I dont know. But I really do believe it to be a huge problem that we arent really addressing. But how do we address it?? Im interested to hear peoples views.

Why hasnt anything been done about Chinas occupation of Tibet or its military capacity as a dictatorship nation?

Because there is no oil in Tibet.

Because there is no oil in Tibet.

It's the same reason we never directly attacked the Soviet Union, but had no problem attacking other countries in which communism was spreading. Were we wrong to try to contain communism as we did, because we never attacked the big dog, which would inevitably lead to nuclear war?

Were we wrong to try to contain communism as we did, because we never attacked the big dog, which would inevitably lead to nuclear war?

Im just a little dismayed at how a peace loving nation such as Tibet was never protected by anyone in the world when they cried out for help. Yet Kuwait, Taiwan, South Korea, Timor have all had the big dogs help them out.

The idea of attacking China is a pointless action, moreover, it is a logicistical nightmare only Parallel to WW II. China would not let us ship over boatloads of troups to arrive at their mainland just as we would not allow them to land here. The naval battle would be a long drawn out conflict and little hope of resolution. The Air Superiority of the U.S. would be unquestionable but the ability to truly cripple China with her massive land mass and powerfull industrusty is daunting at best and hopless impossible at a realistic expectation. The only alternative is Nuclear which is unfesiable because she also has the bomb so that will end with both our destruction.

It's not just the reason of Oil but behind it the economical situation. We both gain more from trade and co-existance than war.

We both gain more from trade and co-existance than war.

Sure it is all about money and gain, rather than what is right.

conventionally...China is only a regional lesser superpower..period...if a conventional war was fought....China as does the world lacks the one key ingredient needed....the capability to project overwhelming power in a short period of time....that is the US militarys greatest ability....Chinas equiptment for the most part are outdated and useless junk...granted they have a chunk of worthwhile equipment but its too limited in its stock....no real navy...no real heavy lift/sealift capability....etc.etc....right now China may be on our side for the moment...they are not overjoyed at NK nukes that they have no control over as well...as such are seeking a way to diplomaticlly resolve the NK crisis....but down the road...prob 15-20 years...China is going to get one hell of a bug up their ass for regional if not global expansion...

With that said too many varibles remain unclear....size of Japan's military (they already are seriously considering enlarging its military especially its naval arm of the JSDF which poses a prob again for China...another intresting factor is by 2012, our Naval facilities in Japan will esentially be minor..reason, thats the decommision date for the US navys last 2 conventional Carriers which are forward deployed there and the Japanese are not that keen on allowing Nuclear supercarriers port rights there...but again this may change....time will tell

No oil in Tibet! All about the money! BAH!

Somebody want to explain to me how we were/are expected to "liberate" Tibet? Parachute our troops in? Look at a map! In those mountains? How to support them? How to supply them? How to defend against the tens of millions of Chinese infantry? How to evac our wounded? How to support the civilan population while doing this?

And what exactly should we do to make the Chinese quit caring about Tibet while we are defending them? Place economic sanctions on them? Would that hurt China more or us? Stop trading with them? They'll just go to the EU to do business. Toss them from the UN? Fat chance. The UN would probably prefer to get rid of us!

You don't just say to the Chinese "Do what we say or else." unless you have a credible threat to back it up with. Right now, I can only think of one. Nuclear.

On the other hand, if we keep the Chinese engaged, we can keep Taiwan free for a while at least, and get them to help with North Korea thus protecting South Korea and by extension, Japan. And who knows. Maybe the day will come when Tibet can be brought to the table as well. Sometimes you just can't have it all right now.

Politics is the art of the possible - Bismark