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Why Did God Command Killing?

Why Did God Command Killing?

Is He Not a God of Love?

"And the Lord sent thee on a journey and said Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites and fight against them until they be consumed." 1 Samuel 15:18

Why was this command given? What kind of a person could follow such a God who advocated this? Is the God of the OT different than the God of the NT? Why the command to exterminate all men, women and children belonging to the seven or eight Cannanite nations? How could God approve of the blanket destruction, at times, of the killing of entire groups of people?

These are all fair questions. Many an objection is raised by unbelievers as to the view that the God of the OT is a God of love and mercy based on such scripture passages as the one above.

I'm not going to tone down or mitigate its stark reality because it would fail from the start. These instructions are quite clear and there are many texts such as the one listed above that speak of destroying whole populations.

In most of the situations as here there is a distinctive OT concept known as herem present and it means "curse," "that which stood under the ban" or "that which was dedicated to destruction." Basically the root of this means to separate. However this is not in a positive sense such as to be "sanctified" which means to be set aside for the service and glory of God. This is more like the opposite side of the coin and means to separate for destruction. In the NT Jesus spoke of the end times when the sheep and the goats would be separate giving us the same idea as to what we see here in the OT.

God dedicated these people, or in some cases individuals, to destruction because they violently and continually impeded or opposed his work usually over a long period of time. God is always slow to act. This act of destruction was not used frequently.

Abraham was given an amazing prediction. He was told his descendants would be exiled and mistreated for over 400 years before God would lead them out. While many may know that , they may not clearly understand the reason for this long delay. Genesis 15:13-16 explains that the "sin of the Amorites had not reached it's full measure. This meant that all the Canaanite tribes in Palestine whose sins God would tolerate until the Israelites came out of Egypt under Moses would evenutally be destroyed in the conquering of Palestine by Joshua..

So God waited for 400 years while the Amalekites and those other Canaanite groups filled up their cups of condemnation by their sinful behavior. God's mercy and grace was such that he waited giving them every opportunity to repent from their plummet into self-destruction. It's always our own behaviors that will get us in the end.

In the meantime the Israelites were not without sin. Deut 9:5 says:


"It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of ther land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations."


These nations were cut off to prevent the corruption of Israel and the rest of the world (Deut 20:16-18). When a nation starts burning children as a gift to the gods (Lev 18:21) and practices sodomy, beastiality and all sorts of nasty vices (Lev 18:25,27-30) the day of God's grace and mercy has begun to run out. I see the same happening eventually to our country as we kill the unborn literally sacrificing them to whatever god we're following.

Just as surgeons do not hesitate to amputate a limb affected by gangrene, taking some healthy flesh with it, God must do the same. This is like removing cancer that would eventually infect all of socieity and destroy the remaining good.

Sin is likened to yeast. Basically what yeast does is corrupt the dough. That's what would happen if sin is left unchecked. It would eventually spread and all would be affected.

Why was God so opposed to the Amalekites? When the Israelites were wandering and struggling thru the wilderness towards the Promised Land the Amalekites picked off the weak, sick and elderly at the end of the line of marchers and brutally murdered these stragglers. You'll see the warning Moses gave in Deut 25:17-18. He said the Amalekites had no fear of God and thought they were invincible.

Some commentators believe that the Amalekites were not merely plundering and disputing who owned the territority but were also attacking God's chosen people to discredit the living God. Some trace this people group's adamant hostility all through the OT, including the most savage butchery of all in Haman's (pre-Hitler) proclaimation that all Jews throughout the Persian Empire could be massacred on a certain day (Esther 3:8-11). Haman was an Amalekite. His actions revealed his nation's deep hatred for God and the people whom God had chosen to bless the world. To this day the Jews celebrate God's protection and delieverance from Haman. Every Spring they have a two day celebration going all the way back to this time.

In Numbers 25 and 31 Israel was also told to conduct a war of extermination against all those in Midian with the exception of the young girls because this people group had led the Israelites into idolatry and immorality. It was very important that the preservation of Israel stay intact. This is the people group that God had chosen not only to be a light to the whole world but to also bring his son into when the time was full.

So here this command was to break Midian's strength by killing all the males and any woman who had slept with a man and who could still become mothers. There are further examples of the principle of herem including the verse in Psalm 106.34. This psalm recounts the sins committed in the land of Canaan by the Israelites including failure to destroy the inhabitants and idolatry. So they also questioned God at times when given these commands sometimes leaving survivors or just not doing what he commanded and they always paid the price for their sin.

"They did not destroy the nations concerning whom the Lord commanded them; but were mingled among the heathen and learned their works. And they served their idols; which were a snare to them. Yes, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters to devils and shed innocent blood even the blood of their sons and of their daughters whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan and the land was polluted with blood. Thus were they defiled with their own works and went a whoring with their own inventions." Psalm 106:34-39
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4,564 views 38 replies
Reply #26 Top
So I might as well not even open the Bible then...it doesn't matter what you do, Jesus died and will accept us so long as we accept him? That doesn't seem right... I mean, that would make meeting up in the next life pretty awkward for murders, rapists and their respective victims.

"Hey, didn't you stab me to death while I pleaded for mercy? Shouldn't you be in hell?"

"Heh, about that...I accepted Jesus, so here I am. Uhh...sorry about that whole murder thing."

If that's the case then the 10 Commandments and most of the Bible is useless save for the "Jesus will forgive you" part. One slip of paper replaces the whole book.

~Zoo
Reply #27 Top
We did not choose to live, we were thrust upon this earth and now we are forced to go one way or the other since we eventually have to die. It's not a kindness, but rather a forced decision.


That gets a rare "Amen" from me.
Reply #28 Top
P.S. Going to Lisbon, Portugal for the next couple of days. Have fun everybody!
Reply #29 Top
Going to Lisbon, Portugal for the next couple of days. Have fun everybody!
End of quote


WHOA! Have a safe FUN trip!
Reply #30 Top
So I might as well not even open the Bible then...
End of quote


The Bible is a "Get to Know God" book. If you *truly* accept Jesus as Lord and Savior isn't it logical to want to know as much as possible about the God you want to spend eternity with?

Not everyone who says they accept Jesus really knows him Zoo. Come on, you're a smart guy, you know that.

As for behavior. That's putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Once someone truly accepts and want to get to know God, reading what pleases and displeases him comes naturally.

Define God's house. If you mean earth, then we never had a choice.
End of quote


I do mean earth. You didn't have a choice? Ok. I agree with that. But let me ask you this Zoo. Would you rather be dead? Are you sorry you were ever born? Was it a curse or a gift?

I realize there are people who consider their own lives a burden or curse. But I doubt you will find many who truly believe ALL life is a burden/curse.

Saying we have no choice to live is not exactly true either. You can end your life any time you want if its such a burden. But you don't. Why not?

If that's the case then the 10 Commandments and most of the Bible is useless save for the "Jesus will forgive you" part. One slip of paper replaces the whole book.
End of quote


The 10 commandments are the law. They show us what God loves, and what He hates. They show His holiness and at the same time show us we can never live up to them. Then He shows us that even though we can't ever be perfect, He can, and He doesn't sacrifice His holiness by taking on human form and paying the penalty for our sin.

The whole Bible (to me) is the story of our fellowship with God (Adam and Eve), our disobedience, and God's plan to get us back without sacrificing His perfect holiness. He shows the entire plan, sent prophets to tell all about it. And then he fulfilled it exactly as He said He'd do to reconcile our relationship.

The one thing He won't do is force you to love Him.
Reply #31 Top
Nice, Tova. :)


Not everyone who says they accept Jesus really knows him Zoo.
End of quote


True...and technically no one really does know him at all. We have stories, and that's all we get. A character, a representation...to really know him we're going to have to meet him.

Once someone truly accepts and want to get to know God, reading what pleases and displeases him comes naturally.
End of quote


True enough, but some people take this part a little far in my opinion.

Would you rather be dead? Are you sorry you were ever born? Was it a curse or a gift?
End of quote


Heh, that depends on how I feel. Normally, usually I don't mind living. Of course there are those days when you think you'd be better off six feet under. In general, life is an amazing thing...but we have no choice in the matter. We could end it, yes...but that's a straight ticket to hell, isn't it?

But you don't. Why not?
End of quote


Spite, mostly.  :LOL: 

Seriously, I just want to see how this whole thing plays out. I'm not keen on dying right now.

The 10 commandments are the law. They show us what God loves, and what He hates.
End of quote


Interesting thing is, 4 out of 10 Commandments deal exclusively with worshipping God...you'd think He could wind them all up into 1 and give us a few more to better outline our lives.

God seems to hate a lot of things as much as He loves when you think about it. Interesting character this God guy...bipolar to the max.

The one thing He won't do is force you to love Him.
End of quote


Well, He doesn't do a lot. I believe the God we have these days has a huge hands off policy. There are a lot of prayers that go unanswered. He demands that we love him, but you're right...He won't force it. Not even God can control emotion, which would explain His anger and subsequent slaughter of human populations.

It's a lot to think about...it really is.

~Zoo
Reply #32 Top
then I have to ask...who exactly is YOUR God?

My God says we need to pray like this:

Our Father Who art in Heaven
Hallowed be YOUR NAME

Names are very important to God. He actually has quite a few attributed to him the most popular being Jehovah or YHWH. This name is actually mentioned 6,683 times in the OT.
End of quote


My "God" just is. ::Shrugs::
Reply #33 Top
True enough, but some people take this part a little far in my opinion.
End of quote


This just cracks me up Zoo. hahahaha. I can think of a whole lotta worse things to be addicted too. (Like chocolate! ;p )

I'm not keen on dying right now.
End of quote


Ya know a good thing when ya got it. I may not ask for a gift, but once I receive it I'm not going to just throw it away because I didn't ask for it. Heck, that'd include just about every good thing in my life.

Interesting thing is, 4 out of 10 Commandments deal exclusively with worshiping God...you'd think He could wind them all up into 1 and give us a few more to better outline our lives.
End of quote


Actually I am amazed He fit so much into ten sentences. Wish I could write like that.

God seems to hate a lot of things as much as He loves when you think about it. Interesting character this God guy...bipolar to the max.
End of quote


I dunno. If we were created in His image and He gave us emotions...stands to reason He has them too. Bipolar? Nah. I bet you could sit down right now and write a list of things you love and things you hate. Maybe not as succinctly, but I bet ya could do it. Are you bipolar? heh. Seriously, if you are don't tell me.  :p 

You are right it IS a lot to think about. And if you want to reject it as written that is your choice. Just yours.

I for one am not going to make you feel guilty or stupid for choosing an eternity in hell.....buwhahahahahha.

Sorry, I can have a bit of a twisted sense of humor. :d 

Reply #34 Top
This just cracks me up Zoo. hahahaha. I can think of a whole lotta worse things to be addicted too.
End of quote


Well, some are addicted in that overzealous way. Some go over to the dark side. Just look towards Fred Phelps for that kind of craziness.

Bipolar? Nah. I bet you could sit down right now and write a list of things you love and things you hate. Maybe not as succinctly, but I bet ya could do it. Are you bipolar? heh. Seriously, if you are don't tell me.
End of quote


He seems to be that way sometimes. First it's all love, love, love...and then it's die, die, die. There's never, I'm disappointed in you, let's talk this out. There's no middle ground with God. Vengeance or Love...take your pick.

There's not much I hate in this world, mostly actions or ideas that are stupid and/or evil.

Nah, I'm not bipolar...I'm eerily moderate in all of my emotions 99% of the time.

And if you want to reject it as written that is your choice. Just yours.
End of quote


Sometimes what's written isn't necessarily what the author had in mind. I let life figure out all the messy details. No one has the exact same format of beliefs, personal experience shapes most of what you believe. Even if you're devout, no two people believe every detail to be the same.

Except for scientologists who are brainwashed zombies. :P

~Zoo
Reply #35 Top
Just look towards Fred Phelps for that kind of craziness.
End of quote


Yes his wife and son graced Vandalia with their presence during the murdered Marine's funeral.

Lucky Ohio.

Reply #36 Top
Karma? Hello? Where are you?



Reply #37 Top
Karma? Hello? Where are you?


She's feeding the ducks.

reference: Genesis

Heathaze by Genesis

No cloud, a sleepy calm
Sunbaked earth that's cooled by gentle breeze
And trees with rustling leaves
Only endless days without a care
Nothing must be done

Silent as a day can be
Far off sounds of others on their chosen run
As they do all those things they feel give life some meaning
Even if they're dull

Time to stop this dreaming, must rejoin the real world
As revealed by orange lights and a smoky atmosphere

The trees and I are shaken by the same winds but whereas
The trees will lose their withered leaves
I just can't seem to let them loose
And they can't refresh me those hot winds of the south
I feel like an alien, a stranger in an alien place

Now the light is fading fast
Chances slip away, a time will come to pass
When there'll be none
Then addicted to a perfumed poison
Betrayed by its aftertaste
We shall lose the wonder and find nothing in return
Many are the substitutes but they're powerless on their own

Beware the fisherman who's casting out his line
Into a dried up river bed
But don't try to tell him cos he won't believe you
Throw some bread to the ducks instead, it's easier that way
I feel like an alien, a stranger in an alien place
Reply #38 Top
"Love your enemies...to death!"

;)

~Zoo