Your Life is Worth More if Wearing a Uniform?

What Do We Tell The Children?

from JoeUser Forums
I'm a bit upset as to what is happening in NH right now. A gunman went on a rampage and killed three innocent people in a store. He had mentioned earlier to friends that he just wanted to kill somebody, literally. So he went into this store, shot the manager, a well liked young man, who had two small children, an 8 year old daughter who misses her daddy and a 1 year old son. He also killed two best friends from childhood who stopped into the store on their way home from a hike.

All for nothing. No reason. He had no connection with these people and just recently had been released from prison after doing a five year term. He was wanted in Kentucky after eluding police and So. Carolina having a string of robberies and other infractions connected to him there. In Kentucky they said he simply disappeared on them during a manhunt.

He can't be given the death penalty because it's only allowed for those who shoot a police officer or kidnap somebody first before they kill them. How absurd! So because he didn't kill an officer and because he didn't kidnap these three before he shot them, we now get to feed, clothe and educate this murderer for the rest of his life? Wouldn't you think three dead men would at least be as valuable as one dead officer?

I don't get it. Do you?

1,337 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think that the death penalty as applied in our society usually causes more problems than it solves. Yes, our authorities have the right to impose it, and yes, it is justice.

But believing as I do that it is mercy we should desire, not justice, I cannot reconcile with the idea of the death penalty as we impose it. I believe that we should deliberate very seriously before we even consider imposing such a sentence. Ideally, I am against the death penalty, as I believe it to be a rather imperfect solution in our imperfect world. If I were on a jury, I would refuse to impose the death penalty.

NOW, that being said, I degree that the presence or absence of a uniform should not weigh on death penalty deliberations. If there is a death penalty, it is precisely for individuals such as this.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
The theory goes that one who would gun down an officer is more dangerous than one who randomly kills folks.  At least that is the theory that I have heard.
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't value anyone's life over another when it comes to victims.  If someone kills someone else, than in my mind that individual just moved to the head of the line of people that the state can inject with enough chemicals to put to sleep forever, or that the state can gas to death (or whatever method of carrying out the death sentence may be used).

Sadly though there are plenty of people that decry the death penalty as being overly harsh, improperly administered, cruel and unusual or otherwise un-supportable.  About the only way to get those people to give an inch in allowing for a death penalty is to tie the penalty into a crime against some specific group.  It is much like the idea of hate crimes, which I don't understand either.  Just about all, if not absolute all, crimes are hate crimes, but the fact that a crime is commited against some specific protected class of individual(s) is enough to make the penalty that much stronger?  Again, b.s.

I guess death penalty advocates have to take the approach that the death penalty should be applied in cases of hate crimes.  I'm fairly confident that the bleeding hearts would support the death penalty in those cases -- until they get called on the fact that in supporting the death penalty for some, but not all, they've just marched straight into equal protections under the law issues that will nullify the whole thing (probably exactly what they are looking for anyway). 

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Gideon said:

But believing as I do that it is mercy we should desire, not justice, I cannot reconcile with the idea of the death penalty as we impose it. I believe that we should deliberate very seriously before we even consider imposing such a sentence. Ideally, I am against the death penalty, as I believe it to be a rather imperfect solution in our imperfect world. If I were on a jury, I would refuse to impose the death penalty.

I've never been called for jury duty, so it's not been an issue for me, but I would have absolutely no problem imposing the death penalty on someone that I heard enough evidence about to absolutely convince me of their guilt.

I believe very seriously in hearing and carefully weighing all of the evidence before me (and the court) and believe in the solemn oath to consider all of the facts before me (and the court) before rendering a judgement.  If I had even a sliver of doubt, than I would say no death penalty and be comfortable imposing life without parole (which would still offer opportunities to appeal, and would continue to have the guilty party behind bars forever unless an appeal over-turned the conviction).

If I was presented with enough concrete proof, hard evidence that showed that the person before me was a murderer, rapist, or other criminal who was facing the death penalty, and there was no question of guilt I'd have no problem at all sending that individual to meet their maker at the hands of the state.  I figure that individual would already have decided that they felt their life was forfeited before they commited the crimes that they did.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
The theory goes that one who would gun down an officer is more dangerous than one who randomly kills folks. At least that is the theory that I have heard.


Really? That's the reason? Seems to me when an officer dies it's usually because he's got the criminal cornered in some way. So it's more of a defensive act. This one here in the store (and many other situations like this) acted in an offensive manner. So I guess I'd have to disagree with the theory that you heard about. It doesn't make sense.

When this guy was arrested he was almost boastful about it. He blamed society. He said he needed help that he never got. He asked the judge if he could be moved from the jail he was currently in because they weren't very nice to him there. He was quite talkative to anyone that would listen and non repentant. His attitude was "it's all about me."

Not even a question of guilt here. He took three young lives. For those that don't believe in the death penalty how can you not when you see this?

But believing as I do that it is mercy we should desire, not justice,


ok, questions for you Gid. You desire mercy right? Well who is this mercy directed at? The criminal? What about the families? What about mercy for the victim and his family left behind? What do you think, in this case, a very little girl and little boy are going to think as they grow up and understand that the bad man that killed their daddy is still alive? In a little kid's mind, will be terror that if he escapes, he's going to kill them too.







Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
What do you think, in this case, a very little girl and little boy are going to think as they grow up and understand that the bad man that killed their daddy is still alive?


I don't think children learn anything from a society that demands blood for the crimes, either.

I've LOST a family member to murder, KFC. A brother, in fact. It doesn't change the facts. Rage and anger won't bring my brother back. His father (we had the same mother, different fathers) died the most horrible death imaginable and it wasn't even imposed by the state (he received a 20 year sentence).

I believe that God imposes the ultimate justice. That makes everything we do inadequate and superfluous. I also believe that witnessing does not stop on the street corners, but goes into the prison as well. Nobody needs Christ worse than the criminal.

Again, I am not questioning that God gives the states that authority. I'm just questioning whether states should exercise that authority.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
First off Gid, I want to say I'm sorry about what happened to your brother. I can't relate to that.

I don't want to equate the death penalty with rage and anger either. It's not out of rage and anger we believe in this. It's out of justice and mercy for all involved. The rage and anger is what caused the murder to happen in the first place. Do you know the guy I wrote about here, is requesting the death penalty?

In today's news at the preliminary hearing he stood in the courtroom, hands behind his back with his middle finger up for all behind him (including the grieiving relatives) to see. They are grieiving tremendously. For some, the only justice is that his life be taken as well.

I believe that God imposes the ultimate justice.


Yes. All will be accounted for in the end. I agree.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
For some, the only justice is that his life be taken as well.


Mercy for the murderers, KFC?

They shouldn't be grieved a murderer 'gets off lightly' with a life sentence; if they must grieve it should be because he's receiving a much harsher punishment.

If the tales of those who have lived in cages are anything to go by it's not a good life, and certainly a much harder death than being hanged or shocked or lethally injected.

Can you imagine it? To live for decades in a pen surrounded by the most brutal individuals in society, or, if your crimes are serious enough, to live on your own, locked in solitary until you die. My guess is only those who haven't experienced it or who are cowardly about death would consider it always preferable to a comparatively swift death at the hands of the executioners.