Hey there, Only recently. There was a time, even in this country, that if you took up evil ways, i.e., witchery, you were burned at the stake. And lest not forget the Inquisition, pogroms in Poland, and other wonderful programs designed to bring Christ to the heathen.



I woulde like to believe this, but honestly KFC, I have not been the recipient of a lot of love at the hands of Christians. I have seen crosses burning on yards, good Christians making sure blacks don't get served, setting up private schools when desegregation came about, supporting war, and all manner of unloving acts. While there may not be an off with your head mentality as it comes to belief, there is shunning and booting people out of churches, and other forms of hurtfulness. As I see it, intolerance is intolerance regardless how its dressed.

Be well.

"Good Christians making sure blacks don't get served"

No.

Are you Buddhist before you reach nirvana? Well, these people are not perfectly like Christ yet. Don't tell me faith is bad because of the actions of some who profess to have faith. I won't tell you that Islam is bad because some Islamic people have become terrorists.

Christianity is perfect - Christians are not.

Luli: Frankly, your dates are way off here. All of those evils you mention have been part of the civilization of man for a very long time. I agree with you that the issues related to materialism are a serious threat to civilization, but I don't see how they are related to public funding of religion. I will bet you dollars to donuts that most of the familes suffering from the issues you list classify themselves as Christian. Are you really suggesting that a few Hebrew commandments on a wall are going to change this? Or that leading official prayer by a grade school teacher will improve grades, stop teen sex, and eliminate drug abuse? Where are the Christian families? Where are the so-called Christian family values? The Churches? What is their responsibility in this?

Give me a break. Christianity is hardly perfect. If anything, in my opinion, it is seriously flawed. Christians have hid behind this sort of nonsense for decades, refusing to accept responsibility for those of your faith who distort, twist, and abus all in the name of some fom of dominance.



Yes. In fact we are all buddhas already. Nirvana and samsara or two side of the same coin. We consider all beings to be perfect just as they are. Each of us endowed with Buddha-nature, even you. Besides, Buddhism is not a belief system, it is a practice. As I've suggested before, I pray that people of your faith perfect your faith and walk the walk instead of talking the talk.

Be well.

None of that stuff will help now, will it? You can't go back in time here. Once you take prayer out, prayer going back in is only 'oppressive'. Oh, boy, is it oppresive.

Take the commandments off the wall, and you can't put them back up. Have no other God before me? Can't say it, think it, do it in America. It's unconstitutional.

Man, imagine that. Standards of conduct. Shutter at the thought!

My family will be a Christian family, and we will have Christian family values, and so will our church. But I can't control my sons forever. I will pick up my responsibility to myself, my family, and to everyone who will let me teach them, and I will run with it. That's all I can do. That's my responsibility. And hopefully, that will improve grades, stop teen sex, and eliminate drug abuse. But only within my sphere of influence.

If everyone's already a buddha, already perfect, then what is your purpose? How do you improve perfection?

Obviously, in your own words, these people "distort, twist, and abuse" not just others, but the Word of God, "in the name of some form of dominance." Their own dominance, at that point, not the dominance of God, or Jesus. The people who try to live by the actual Word of God are your servants. They do not lord anything over anyone.

This isn't Einstein Cacto...all you have to do is sit down with a grandmother and ask her. They will tell you what has transpired over the years. I have a grandmother who is 89 years old. We talk of the old days all the time. She's absolutely shocked at today's happenings. Nobody locked the doors. No one was afraid to walk down a street anywhere in the US even at night. When I was growing up I remember hearing the grownups speak of how we never had murders in our state. It just wasn't something we worried about here.

This week alone I think we had like five or six. I've been watching this grow over the years. You've been out of HS for six years and you thing you're an expert? I've been out of HS for 28 years. I've seen a TON of changes and NOT for the better. I don't need stats. I've seen these things escalate over the years. The stats would only confirm what I've already seen and experienced.



How so? Because I said we do not wish to see our Creator God replaced with adoration and prayer to another god(s)? A house divided cannot stand SC. You cannot believe in the one Jehovah God and a multitude of other gods at the same time.



What is this supposed to mean? I would never say have fun in hell to anyone.



that's just it Sodaiho, you can tell a Chrisitan by their fruit. Burning Crosses in yards doesn't qualify as good fruit. Christ said a good tree bears good fruit. A bad tree bears bad fruit. Burning a cross in someones yard does not a Christian make. I'm sorry that you've had to go thru these things and if I could I would like to apologize for all those that did such things to turn you away from the one that really cares a ton about you.



I would say that ONLY Christ was perfect. We as flawed human beings are trying our best in the flesh to follow and be like him. The closer we follow him and keep our eyes focused on him, the more we become like him. It's called sanctification and it takes more than a lifetime to get there.

I'm sorry KFC, I posted inappropriately.

It's called religous tolerance. Just because you have no problem with a Hindu praying, does not mean you're converting to Hinduism. You believe what you believe and he believes what he believes. He can pray and worship his way. You pray and worship your way.

We all have our own beliefs and that's ... okay. (said in my Stuart Smalley voice).

Do you think Jesus was religiously tolerant?

may be you did not, however, many many many here, here on JU including KFC (see comments #11 and #16 above) said, saying and will continue to say that.

and who said that IT IS a "Christian Country"? You? !!!!!!! and since when?

Let me see if i understand the situation here:

Slavery and discrimination from the Start
Elimination(i.e.Genocide)of the natives from day one
Legal prostitution at first, then decriminalizing sexual relations between unmarried people later.
Settling disputes with guns and duels even between high-position officials in the early days of the country

..... etc.

And you still say it is a Christian Country?

Which commandments exactly this country (as a nation not people) ever held Sacred?

talk is cheap but hypocrisy will never decieve anyone. It is obvious and known to all.

Of course. I'm not aware of any 'smite the infidel' talk coming from Jesus' corner. He seemed very live and let live, despite the fact that the Romans and many others in that part of the world were pagans and non-Jews. I'm not sure it would have been practical to be all that religiously intolerant as a Jew in the province of Syria at that time.

.

Well, at least I didn't say it. He'd think I was being intolerant of his enlightenment.

Good will be called evil, and evil will be called good. It's all happening just like the Bible said, and still they don't believe... that's in the Bible too. That's what sucks about the whole thing, as the times come to those described in the Bible less and less believe it, even as its predictions prove accurate.

Absolutely. He was a Jew. Jews are and always have been tolerant of other faiths. Jesus wraith was directed at Jews who he saw as hypocrites, and so on. He wanyted Jews to be better Jews.

No, I really don't but He also said "Do unto others as you would have done to you". If you offered a prayer, would you want to be shouted down and disrupted?

Do you really think that is your job to "correct" everyone else's beliefs that don't agree with yours?

Loca wins this one Sodaiho. He wasn't "religously" tolerant. Look at his exchanges with the Pharisees sometime. He was very "intolerant" of them and their "religion". They were very religious but lost. He even had the gall to say that he was the ONLY way to heaven. That all other roads lead to hell. That's pretty strong intolerance if you ask me.



No, and I've already addressed this Loca. I disagreed with their approach. I've already come out and said on my blog (that got this whole ball rolling) that my way would have been to stand quietly outside and pray for our leaders and our nation. To me that's much more effective and God honoring. Remember it was only a couple of zealous Christians who did this. While I appreciate their tenacity and their guts to do what they did, I also think they could have gone about it a better way. Most Christians are very tolerant to the point that we are losing much ground.



My job as a Christian is to "go and tell."

What I'm trying to remember is how we got onto this topic in the first place. I remember writing about something completely different, but it's all fuzzy now.

Little Whip writes:



Little whip, how can you so consistently miss the point? Evil does not exist outside of our actions, that is, there is no devil to cause evil. Get it? Of course men to evil things, that is how evil is brought into the world. Are those men evil? No. Their actions are evil. Get it? I do not think of jihadists as "poor" in the sense that you suggest, i.e. to be coddled or pampered. Your suggestion is childish. Are they poor? My sense is they are suffering in hate and are poor in spirit. They have no meaningful connection to community other than through their hate. Are we going to win them over with violence? No. Are we going to terrorize them into submission with our own? No. Can we smarter and think out of our own box of hate and fear? That's the question. For you the answer is apparently not.

Now, I am well aware that you believe me to be a bigot. I am sorry you feel that way. It is way off mark. Do I have issues with Christians? No, not specifically. Do I have issues with intolerance, you betcha. And we are talking on this thread about tyranny. I argue the intolerance of some Christians and the specific Christian belief that there is only one way, their way, as well as their willingness to seek legislation to maintain this dominance is, in fact, bigoted and tyranical. Do I think they should be stopped from speaking? No. Would I try to control them through governmental restriction? No. But then, I will not allow them to do the same to me, either. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, so be it.

Please try to get past your hate, and your will to violence, it is very unbecoming.

_____
As far as Jesus not being a Jew. Goodness. How could he not be? There were no Christians until way after he died. Early "Christians" thought of themselves as Jews. He was thought to be the Jewish Messiah, for goodness sake.

KFC and Loca argue that Jesus was religiously intolerant. I still maintain, not so in the context of interfaith relations. He did not ask Romans to become Jews. He disparaged the practices and faith of the Pharisees and behaved atrociously on the Temple steps. He demonstrated a flawed nature with this temper tantrum, in my opinion. But he was yelling at Jews about their Jewish practices. No where in Judaism do we disparage other paths. All are welcome to walk with us and maintain their original faiths. Judaism is a tribal religion not a belief system. One can be Jewish and leave the faith, like a Messianic Jew. Are they Jews? Yes, bit not religiously speaking, and if they see the light and return to their faith of origen, they will be welcome.


Be well.

Jythier, Where am I saying good is evil? Or evil, good? They are very different actions. Yet, they are actions, none the less.

I am not enlightened, but I am a buddha.

Be well.

How tolerant do you want me to be? I'm not hurting you, or seeking legislation for anything. My faith allows all to enter if they so choose, including you. Is that intolerant? If they choose not to, their eternity will not be with God. Is that intolerant? If they did not choose God in life, why should they get to be with Him after? God tolerates you to be on His Earth, and tolerates you making the decision against Him. He continues to let you live! But someday, just like everybody else, you will die and that will be the end of your decisions. All that will be left is consequences, either good or bad.

There is a devil to cause evil. Evil does exist outside of our actions. The devil you don't believe in is very active, and he doesn't really care whether you believe in him or not, as long as you don't believe in Jesus.

Jythier,

I don't want you to be intolerant at all. I would like very much for you to be a loving and respectful person toward people from differing cultures and religuous backgrounds. Perhaps I am wrong? You do not want to see our constitution changed to allow publicly funded prayer? You would like to see publicly funded Christmas displays, the promotion via public funds of your faith?

When you say that my faith is false or not equal to yours, you are, indeed, hurting me. It is hurtful speech.

We can certainly agree to disagree on the subject of the Adversary. Christians have their own spin on he Hebrew text and went wild with Milton's poetic embellishments. So it goes. If it is important to you to havce a devil to explain the conduct of men, fine. Yet, it is men who make the choices. And men who do the deeds. Wouldn'tr it be a bit better to focus our attention on our behavior than on our beliefs? Just a thought.

I support you in your right to have your prayers. You are free to pray anywhere at anytime, even in school. You just can't do it at other's expense. Just so, I don't expect you to allow me to lead your children (were they in public school) in a Buddhist prayer. Not when you are a taxpayer paying my salary as a school employee.

I believe wholeheartedly in an ecumenical approach to spirituality in America. I am a member of the Interfaith Council at New Mexico State University and get along very well with its members.

I would hope you could share in such efforts.

Be well.

No and neither are we asking anyone to be Christian Sodaiho. We are asking that our nation stay focused and stand on the same principles it was founded on.

As far as Christ acting as he did. That was ok. It's ok to be angry over sin. It's ok to be angry but it's also important not to sin in our anger. It's ok to be angry when you see somebody hurt or cheat another. In the case at the temple, there's alot to the story that most don't understand.

This was a case where the rich authorities were making money off the poor. They were using their position of authority to fill their pockets. Christ uncovered their little lamb scam and drew attention to it. He was always one to uncover what was being covered up. Your sins will always find you out eventually. Christ will uncover what we try to cover. But it's good to know that he will also cover what we uncover.



This subject is brought up in scripture quite a bit. The Jews that were Jews in nationality but not religious were not Jews to God. The Jews that had their hearts circumcised (yes even in the OT this is mentioned) are the real Jews. Actually a Messianic Jew is a real Jew...not according to the Nationality but to God. He would be a Jew that recognized that Jeses was the Messiah spoken of by the OT prophets. They would be Jews that were circumcised without hands.