I know just how you feel Roman. I'm still waiting for the ObjectDock library to get straightened out, and I've been asking for that for quite awhile now. I haven't uploaded any new docks for lately because I got tired of them getting buried under icon/pngs. Since the argument for the pngs is that they are used with ObjectDock so they get put in the same library, and the same could be said for DesktopX. At least you have separate Objects & Widgets libraries...just be glad they aren't stuck in there with the Objects and getting buried since they are both used with DesktopX.

I had the same sort of argument regarding the icons/pngs that your having regarding importing widgets...icons can easily be converted to pngs, but rather than letting people convert them themselves get stuck in the ObjectDock library.

So...I hate to say it....but don't expect anything to get done about it any time soon.

To sViz: You are absolutely right about what people want. However the demand is always defined by proposal. May be they need something else? But they can't find here nothing except clocks, weather and calendars. Which uses outdated scripts by the way...

In what cases we are ready to do any work? First off all if this work bring us some money (or gives confidence on a good earnings in the nearest future). As well as if this work deliver a big pleasure for us. (Obviously the widgets creation pertains to the second case...)

If we love our work and want to increase the widgets creation we must form this proposal and show to people something new every time. And I think that it would be great if Wincustomize Admins help us and start a special Vote to study this. For example they may ask to people a question like "What new widgets you should like see in the Widgets Gallery?" or "What types of widgets you do always use on your desktop and what do you need else to make it much useful?" etc...

Otherwise our activity here is deprived of any sense. At least for me...

Well as one of those " Evil " Weather widget skinners ( I thought this was a skinning site btw ) I currently have 16 widgets in the widget library. 4 are time/date oriented and the other 12 are OMG Weather Widgets...sorry my 12 weather widgets are so disturbing. Personally I don't care if you want to make an " Elite Widget Gallery " Makes no difference to me at all. I have always said that Gadgets do not belong mixed with Widgets - some do not like Gadgets as they do not respond to the F9 or F10 hide/show option. But, thats a moot point.
sviz has made a good point..if the weather widgets are such " Evil crap " then why do the end users keep downloading them ? I make a background to suit a Windowblind that the windowblind skinner ASKS me to do..I do not chase them around looking for permission to make a Weather to match..Im asked. When I said I no longer wanted to make them - again I was asked by the WB Skinner to please not stop making them for her. Occasionally I make one that has no WB associated with it.

I have read the comments here for days - lets not forget that if DesktopX was ONLY for the Super intelligent crowd of programmers and Script writers then sales on DesktopX might dwindle to a handful. I spend my time encouraging people that find DX impossible to figure out. Its not an easy program for the masses - but it can be a " fun" program too. Im all for widgets that actually can make my life easier ....but it seems after the initial introduction of DesktopX and objects/widgets the interest in finding new and unique ideas ran out. You all bitch about weather widgets and I felt the same way about CPU meters. I can live without those no problem.

I do recall Martin making weather - Calendar - clocks and encouraging people to use his scripts to enjoy DesktopX.

You select few are pretty much saying that you feel your the only ones worthy of being in the Widget gallery and the rest of us lowly weather/clock/calendar ' skinners' should go away.

Ok, my vote - give them a Gadget library and or whatever THEY want - the rest of us are just paying customers that don't matter.

Honestly I want nearly the same. And I agree with the majority of your words.

There was two Great Mans here (Martin and Tiggs) that took a lot efforts to make a good stuff for us. Where these people now and why nobody who hitherto uses their scripts can't answer me: What happened with these people? Why they leaved this place? Nobody didn't give me any replies about...

I love DesktopX. And I'm ready to help for everybody who want to study this software daily and nightly! But I don't like a slackers which not only don't want know anything new about DesktopX Scripting but not even remember about the people who have maked all of scripts examples on this page...

What widgets are? "Widgets are mini programs that reside on your computer. You only need to have DesktopX installed in order to use them." It means that Widget is a SCRIPT first of all! And then a SKIN which attached on this script. But we can see the other situation. A lot of skins for the same script. This is dead end where any progress just will be stopped.

So I think that we need do something with this.

Yeah, I wondered too where Martin and Tiggs disappeared...

This brings up another important point, actually it's still the developer/end-user aspect of this debate, there are only so many (or so few depending on how you look at it) people that CAN make the super-widgets. I'd venture to guess that the vast majority of DX users are just that-- users. There are many reasons for this. DX may just be a hobby so they do not have enough time to delve into the innerworkings of this program, or they may occassionally want to make something of their own but do not have the know-how to make anything more than a clock or weather widget (not to mention the scarce amount of good step-by-step tutorials to show them how-to *kudos to DA for his efforts*). When they do make something they are proud of (big or small) this is the place to share it with others. DX isn't so easy to learn; I myself often struggle to learn more and it takes a good deal of passion and patience to stick with it (not to mention time I don't always have). Let's face it, you have to have 'talent' to pull off some of the super-widgets I've seen; not everyone has that. I would hate for there to be an atmosphere where those who don't 'have it' feel like their creations are worthless.

Someone in this thread mentioned something about having a power widget section for professional works. I really don't think we should start segregating the galleries by who we think is more professional than others. We all know who the big dogs are and we can watch their skins, do a search for them, or even sort the libraries by ratings. By saying, "these widgets are over here because they are better than the rest" it would go without saying that "these other widgets don't belong because, well, they are inferior". I believe the rating system is enough to sort that out (not to mention the Master Skins section). Aside from that, if I'm being honest, I think that would discourage the open and friendly sharing atmosphere I came upon when I first joined this community. I wouldn't have felt comfortable uploading my first widgets to the gallery if there were some notion that it had to be of a professional high-standard to be worthy of showing in the gallery. (Again, the rating system takes care of that, too, as a widget has to be of a certain rating to actually be displayed in the gallery.) Honestly, it was the fact that I saw so many weather widgets and clocks that I felt it was okay to upload something that wasn't much of a super-widget.


I can see and identify with both sides here. I'm all for a weather and clock section-- not because I think they are crap and need to be shoved aside -- but because they are popular enough to have their own category (the hall of fame proves this). Those stopping by looking for clocks and weather (and there are alot of people who are) can go straight to that section and browse to their heart's content. But if they are looking for something different they can go to general and take a gander at what else is cooking in DX.
So, for me, it's not so much of being selective and weighing professional works against not-so-professional works (because truly their respective values are in the eye of the beholder) it's about giving everyone room to create, share, and grow. I understand that there are those who work extremely hard on their creations and would like for their work to not end up buried on page 15 the next day. Their work inspires others to acheive something unique and inventive with DX. I also understand that there are those who may not work months perfecting their code but work hard just the same at their creations whether it's a clock or another weather widget. Their work also inspires; it inspires others to 'jump in' to DX and they don't have to know a ton of vBscript to create something of their own and have fun with it too. The way I see it, the developers (serious-coders) and the weather/clock widget makers are both needed to get people to: A. jump in because it's 'fun & easy' and B. to keep at learning more because it can be 'powerful and cutting edge'. We should be considerate of these 2 fields. They show the full-range of what DX can do- from simple to complex-, and the wide spectrum of who can learn to use DX- casual hobbyists and serious developers alike.

And "WE" are NOT PAYING CUSTOMERS? Since when? I not only paid for DX I paid for PRO, I paid for WB, OD, And a ton more, I have paid for my subscription to WC (which I believe I have uploaded MORE then I have downloaded in the past 2 years). So don’t be starting this crap about PAYING customers... that’s not the point at all.



No, that’s not what I’m saying at all, I’m trying to help make and ensure a FUTURE for DX not just a rehash of the same 1 widget over and over. and VAD is right, the weather widgets code is VERY old now (in internet years), and had been proven to have problems. How will this ever be found out if no one knows how to CODE, just SKIN?



If I was so freaking ELITE why the hell would I take the HOURS and HOURS I have taken me to write the multiple tutorials I have posted. Hell yeah I SELL my stuff, and damn I’m raking in the $.. in the past 2 years I believe I have made about $300 for about 300 hours of work, at that rate I should be making shoes in some 3rd world country. If it was about MONEY or STATUS or some other CRAP I would not be doing these Tutorials. -- as for GADGET vs WIDGETS, that’s all about trying to not be ripped off in 10 mins by someone who wants to SKIN something that spent me MONTHS to make work. And As I have said since the first time I made a gadget, that we need a place to split them out from widgets. And I DO post when things are GADGETS not widgets, as I’m trying to reach EVERYONE not just people with DX installed.

I think that’s what DesktopGadgets.com was going to be, but it has never been done right, it takes weeks to get something uploaded, and weeks to put up a simple update. If it was re-made then this might be a moot point.

As for why MARTIN and TIGGS have left, I wish I knew, but I have a feeling it’s because like everyone else they get tired. Making a 2000+ line program is a major undertaking. And it gets tiring to put things out there only to see 100-200 downloads when the next skin up is the same weather/clock widget that has been skinned 200 times. It makes you wonder what the point it.



Yes he did, and I made my own versions of these, but the point has always been to use them to LEARN how things work, not just modify them and upload them back up. The simple "Chrome Dome Clock" went from a single clock with 1 skin, to one using a bunch of PNG files, to one using 2 PNG's (B/W, COLOR) and changing HUE/BRIGHTNESS, so that 1 widget allowed me to START working in DX, and GROW from there to learn HOW DX does things and build on that. And I do believe I "ENCOURAGE" people by making my tutorials, trying VERY hard to start at the level of knowing nothing, and working up.

As for Learning VBSCRIPT/JAVASCRIPT, I have only been working with DX for 3 years, before that I had been working on Real Jukebox Skins, and WMP Skins. I remember posting a WMP skin, and then making 6 more colors for it, same skin, just different colors. I was BLASTED buy numerous people, including TSF and others telling me I was flooding the gallery. Then they also offered to show me how to make it so I could just zip them, or even make one that changed colors. My point here is this, I have offered up my code, to anyone that wants to use it, to make a single widget with multiple colors, I have offered up STEP-BY-STEP Tutorials on how to make things in DX (and the plan WAS to make more). And I'm being put in some ELITE "Super intelligent crowd of programmers " group, that’s pure BS. There is not a person here on this site that has EVER come to me and asked for my help that did not receive it and MORE. I have created code or people, hell I have made entire gadgets for people to SKIN. That’s not the point at all.

The point is that "WE" as a community need to want DX to be a viable program for SD to sell and us to be able to continue to use and create with, but if someone comes in and sees that there are 200 weather widgets, and 180 clocks, they will go, what’s there for me to make, that’s all anyone wants. BUT if they can come in and see dozens of widget ALL with a unique look, style, and control, and function, then they might see an area where they can fit in, and expand the gallery. NEVER do I want to put people off from skinning, or DX, never.

I love the idea of widgets that match WB skins, and I think there should be more "THEMES" that have all of this together. Maybe we can start putting them together in the DX Themes? And not as separate items in the Widgets gallery.

Ok, I’m done.. I’m tired, I feel like I need to go join Martin/Tiggs and just let the "skinner" take over. I have worked so hard at trying to get people to learn DX, but I guess that just makes me some ELITE ass. Thanks.

There's a big a difference between what the average user wants or more necessarily accepts. Who is an average user? If the average user new how simple it actually is to get things done quicker using batch files or scripting WSH then I think desktopX would perhaps really explode.

My arguments aren't to foster any type of elitism, heck I know how long it takes just to work on the graphics. If you look at my last release at deviantart it took me at least ten hours (conservative) to get the stupid buttons right...even then I'm still not satisfied with them.

The point(s) I've tried to make is that there are a lot of tasks most of us are using separate bloated apps to accomplish. On Friday I found three apps (Hotcorners, MoveIt, Morning Coffee) that I know could easily be scripted in DesktopX. A couple of other apps from my computer include FolderCreater & FileSieve.

I'm going to pick on Morning Coffee because it is so absurd it blew my mind. It's a 323KB .net app that launches programs on start up. I was about to go into a big diatribe about how stupid this is but, have decided to write a widget for this one. All I can say is this can be done in a vbscript in under a kb actually 823 bytes for me. What the widget will do is write the script file for you and give you the option to place it into your start up folder.

Coming from an operations management background I can assure you these Category/Subcategory arguments exist in both product/service sectors.

Asides from the definite need for a Gadgets Category maybe the only real way to promote the additional powers of DesktopX in regards to WSH and activeX/com objects is to write our own articles. Something like "Then Things You Can Accomplish With DesktopX, That You Didn't Know".

Let's not split into factions fighting over differing views when perhaps the end goal is the same for all?

David, I was writing my last resonse so, I missed your post. I can't speak for all but, I can say that you and Vad_M are the reasons that I've started uploading and "will" upload more non-conventional objects.

Your tutorials have been a big help in that they opened up my eyes to further potential within the development environment. Actually, it's probably the main reason I decided to buy DesktopX Pro. Yes, I'm a paying customer and I suspect most developers have the pro version; so, that was a crappy pot shot.

Just remember one user's perspective is just that. In order to attract more users and hopefully potential customers for both DesktopX and especially Gadgets, the community needs a diverse number of developers & skinners not just skinners.

An excellent idea ...and along the same vein...it does not appear that a separate gallery will be approved in the near future....

but...start with articles about DX...then when you have uploaded a new DX item....write about it...post in the forums & Articles... etc... Then it doesn't matter if its lost on page 15....people will go looking for it and learning about...the specific Gadget ect. from your articles..this will help create the interest. From this you could consolidate a forum post that is used to help people with coding ect...the forums having so many lurkers as well...many you will not see or hear from will be learning as well Then once established...tempt people with articles about upcoming gadgets ect....then people will start coming to you with new ideas

And Vad...your english is quite good..I never have a problem understanding you..and because people can ask questions they can clarify anything they don't understand..So please do not let the language barrier prevent you from writing about what you know.

It's My Secret

David! You are cool!    (May tell you on a big secret that I have devilishly tired too.   )

However Friends! It seems to me that we nearly approached to understanding the truth. Look about what have told David: The point is that "WE" as a community need to want DX to be a viable program for SD to sell and us to be able to continue to use and create with, but if someone comes in and sees that there are 200 weather widgets, and 180 clocks, they will go, what’s there for me to make, that’s all anyone wants. BUT if they can come in and see dozens of widget ALL with a unique look, style, and control, and function, then they might see an area where they can fit in, and expand the gallery. Very good and much right words. The only one thing makes me sad. These words could say somebody from SD or WC...

Step by step we found what's necessary to do in the nearest future. Let's try to move DX on the next level and prove that not only "clocks" and "weathers" may be created with this software. Then let's see the results. In the last resort we will be able follow Martin, Tiggs and some other people...

To MySecret:
Big Thanks. I'll begin work on articles after the main project which I make now will be finished.

You go back an re-read this thread. If you were 1 of the " 2 or 3 " being singled out that 'flood' the widget gallery with weather widgets and ' push' others 'hard' work to page oblivion...you might have felt the tone of this thread was indeed a bit snarky. Your last widget has been in the widget gallery since March 8th..it has held the 4th and 5th spot since that date. It hasn't been buried by anyone.

We have all been subjected to being buried.

Had this thread been just straight forward about the separation of the " general' widgets from ' complex' widgets I would have said nothing at all....or just agreed with you. It was comments from others that I felt the need to say my opinion.

I do my fair share of helping people with the ' simple ' aspects of DX Themes...answering the same questions over and over again because most of the people that are downloading DX themes do not understand how to even find DX Builder mode.
I do my fair share of helping people via email..some of us just do our helping quietly...

I have read your tutorials and I have downloaded most of your creations. I have complimented you.....

As for Martin and Tiggz...as I recall the last post I saw Tiggz make was he had a windowblind 99% done.....then he disappeared. A few months later someone asked " What happened to Tiggz ?" Someone else answered " Work happened to Tiggz " So maybe its not always about anyone getting tired of anything and just moving on with real life as they see it.

I already made a post here about a month ago about the same thing WWW Link

good points sViz   

To Fairyy~:

Work happened to Tiggz This is the answer which explains all for me. He much tired. Very, very bad...    He was, he is and he will be the best on this place forever.

Thanks you.

You're right about that, Vad. Simply put, who knew they couldn't live without their cell-phone until cell-phones were invented? Who knew they had to have Windows Vista until Windows Vista was created? Point being, if you build it they will come. So long as you build it well; making it innovative, of high-quality, complete, useful, functional, and of course nice looking, too.



DA:

You should not feel like your efforts have been wasted. You are among the most active members in the community who are trying to help others learn to use DX beyond skinning. Even if you quit today (perish the thought) I can easily see that your work will continue to help others for years to come; that's how big an impact you've had on the community.


What I see here is a group of DX users with a hunger and a passion to propel DX into the future as a serious and viable contender in OS customization. Sometimes it can be frustrating to have so much drive to make something good even better and to get others to see this too, yet it feels like for every step towards progress there seems like a million paces still to go. As much as we'd like for Stardock to do something about this let's not forget the power of the people (YouTube anyone?). Sometimes all it takes is one ordinary dedicated person with a dream to bring about a big change. What we need is a concerted effort in bringing this about. I think even bigger than the perceived 're-skinning' problem is the lack of learning resources. For some, sheer determination is enough to help them trudge through the learning process but there will always be those who need all the help they can get.

Tutorials and articles are probably the number one source for help (aside from the Developer's Guide), but oftentimes I feel like they are disconnected from one to the next. The ones I've written are an example; they range from one thing to the next- easy to difficult. One day you learn how to make an analog clock and the next day your learning how to make shortcuts. In the end, you have clock and a shortcut on your desktop and lots of other odds and ends. Maybe if somehow we can tie these tutorials together or at least make more series that build on one and other; bringing the user's skills together to perhaps, eventually complete a whole DX theme filled with everything they've learned to make and giving them a complete DX experience. Roman's step-by-step tutorials are headed in the right direction.

I think MySecret has got an idea...




This seems like a good way of 'hooking' someone who may be interested in "going behind the scenes" so to speak. Maybe, even going further to actually build a widget/theme along with the reader. Clearly, though, we need fresh ideas and new approaches to reaching the potential developers officially and unofficially. Showing them through seperate galleries that amazing things can be done with DX would help, but it goes without saying that showing them HOW to do those amazing things with DX is the hardest and most important part.

This discussion has brought up some very important views and points and I'm certainly going to think about different, more effective ways I can help in this effort.

A Gadgets section would be cool.

Hey Friends! Look at the Widgets Gallery. I have not to say more about...

WOW COOL

Well...

Yeah...?

I am missing something too . . . 

It's so easy. Look:

Updated Today: 7 widgets
Weather: 5 ALIKE widgets
Weather+clock: 1 widget
Other type: 1 widget

Much sad statistics again...    Seems this will not be finished ever.

Vad . .  splitting the gallery up by type is a bad idea for the average user and won't happen.  Let that one go.
Splitting it up between Objects/widgets/gadgets might be possible someday.  Patience.

for this


hope others come here like the last of Tomassen and we can download them