I served in the Navy. What are these "complications" that you speak of?

While your statement here isn't very clear, I'm guessing at what you're trying to say here. Firstly, I don't believe I ever used or implied the word 'ignore' anywhere. What I was saying is that the issue is far more complex and difficult than those without military experience may realize.



Far too many actually. I have not exactly lead a sheltered life

If you served in the Navy, aboard ship, you wouldn't have to ask that question.

"Firstly, I don't believe I ever used or implied the word 'ignore' anywhere. What I was saying is that the issue is far more complex and difficult than those without military experience may realize."

True, you didn't say ignore, but you did say they were incapable of understanding the complications it can cause, which implies their opinions dont matter.

I was simply pointing out that you cant just say (in the other thread), "Those who actively support the open gays in the military idea (and have probably never served themselves) are not subject to reason or rational argument. " to those that support it, those that don't support open gays (and haven't served) are not subject to reason or rational argument either since both groups weren't in that situation. Also if you took out the section in parenthesis it makes even less sense, you are just generalizing everyone that supports open gays in the military are irrational and not subject to reason which, oddly enough, is followed up by, "To them, everyone else is a bigot and nothing is likely to change their little minds." which says THEY are generalizing calling everyone unsupporting a bigot, as if that isn't something you just did.

I don't know about how it is for different branches and I know that individual situations can vary widely, but my husband has been in 3 different combat zones and he's never been forced to shower or use the bathroom in front of other Soldiers. There's always been an option.

He's in Iraq now and he lives in a CHU (basically a little metal box) with 3 other guys. When he wants privacy, he just hangs his sleeping bag or some similar item, from his bunk to create a divider. They are also not all in the room at the same time because it's not a 9-5 life over there.

Most of the time when he's had to sleep somewhere where this was not possible it was also a situation where changing clothes wasn't possible or feasible, either.

Army PT shorts are essentially swim trunks, and a super modest (or paranoid) Soldier can shower in them.

I'm not saying that there aren't genuine logistical issues involved in incorporating openly (or flaming-ly) gay troops into the military, and I personally think the military is pretty accommodating to gay service members as it is.

I'm just hoping people aren't getting the idea that the troops live like sorority sisters, having panty pillow fights and showering together and chatting over a morning piss. They're not one big naked, synchronized pooping team.

I will try to explain it from a former military persons point of view.



Yes, and no. It brings down morale when people are openly gay and flaunting it in straight peoples faces just like people that are openly straight flaunting it in gay peoples faces. When I was in the service my unit had a Corpsman (a field medic) that was queer as a three dollar bill. We all knew he was gay; he was part of our team and damn good at his job. No one cared that he played for the other team! He did his job, and did it well, he saved lives and he wore dresses and sucked cock when he was off duty. As long as he did not hit on any of the straight people no body cared. No one reported him because he did not bother anyone. He was treated as a member of the team and if anyone gave him any problems we had his back. One time we were in the Philippines and he was banging women two at a time and we were confused at what we saw. I asked him what had happened that caused the sudden change. He said to me, “when in Rome do as the Romans do, but back home it is strictly Greek.” It seemed that the gays in the Philippines were too feminine for him and the women were just right, or in his words more masculine in what he likes. I laughed and went back to my wife who flew over to visit. The only homophobia I witnessed in the military was from young immature people that felt threatened by something so different. That fear is something that will bring down morale because children can be mean and cruel.
I am not gay, or bisexual nor do I care to be. I used to teach bible study and preach a little in my younger days. I don’t see a problem with gays in the military as long as they keep their sexual antics to their own type. I feel the exact same way about heterosexuals. I don’t want to hear how you did last night or who did what to whom. I did not tell you about what I did with my girlfriend my wife, or my mistress why do you need to tell me about what you did? Don’t ask don’t tell is ok I guess.




Not to my knowledge. Like I said earlier the young men and women have problems with people outside their mindset of what is right or moral, you get the same thing in high school and not something that is exclusive to the military.

Hope this helps. It is not difinitive it is only the observations of one Marine.

Yea, but I saw them when they first aired. I am an OLD guy.

but my husband has been in 3 different combat zones and he's never been forced to shower or use the bathroom in front of other Soldiers.

 

Then he has had an exceptionally rare experience.

After discussing this with him the other day, I discovered that I was incorrect in my assesment.

He HAS had the unfortunate experience of shared "waste elimination". Even at his current crappy FOB they have shower curtains, though.

I was only like 20% wrong, so I would like to pretend that I was right. I'd like for you to go along with that if at all possible. It's very important for my self esteem.

OMG! This is possibly the greatest paragraph ever.

My cousin seems to share this opinion. He says he hasn't had any privacy issues so far. He's a fairly closed-minded individual, but says he hasn't had any problems with homosexual soldiers.

This does lead to a point of confusion for me: if some soldiers have some privacy, why don't all soldiers? Other than the Navy (boats and subs are cramped, I hear), why can't these soldiers have more privacy? Why must the showers and latrines look as they do? Is it cost, space, time, habit?

Yeah, shower curtains are the ultimate in privacy

It's called reality.

So portaloos are figments of the public imagination? I would have thought the reason would be cost, space and time.

Except in permanent camps it's probably a waste of resources to make the engineers corp spend time installing walls in the latrines and the bathrooms. That plywood could be used for something else, particularly when there's also those 500 buck toilet seats to be bought!

Reality.

I'm still confused. (Maybe I'm brain dead today) Do different units have different utilities? I thought that everything in the army came standard.

I'm not asking why soldiers have to shower together... I'm asking why some soldiers do and some don't. Is it because some are more stationary and others more mobile?

Some of it has to do with where they are and how long that place has been established or what future plans are for it.



Ok, good point.

Fair assessment, I think.

That's what I would have assumed... but then I assumed that there shouldn't be a problem with homosexuality in the army, so I didn't want to make an ass of myself twice.

Yepper, the facilities vary wildly even in stateside units. Once you cross the big ponds it is even less consistent.

I did, any yet I have to "ask that question".