Is art worthless on the Internet?

People will pay for some crazy things but cry foul over paying for artwork

Today Stardock Design released its first "Master" Dream to the Dream (animated wallpaper) gallery. It's the one Microsoft showed off at some of its events.  As some know, Microsoft worked with Stardock to make some of the animated wallpapers for use with Windows DreamScene. Windows DreamScene (the software) is a feature for Windows Vista Ultimate users.  Most of the content we created for Microsoft hasn't been released yet (it will be available from Microsoft).  In the process of creating the animated wallpapers for Microsoft, we made a bunch of extra ones for WinCustomize.com which had nothing to do with our work with Microsoft.

So far, Stardock Design has released 6 free .Dreams and 1 premium .Dream.  On top of that, Stardock has released DeskScapes as freeware and DreamMaker as freeware.  And of course, we host the Dreams here on WiniCustomize which, on their own, used over 2 TERRABYTES of bandwidth.  So from our vantage point, Stardock's been "the good guy". Providing lots of free stuff, lots of free software and providing a free site to get it on. 

But Stardock's also a business. The costs of producing all this has to be made up somewhere or else we wouldn't be able to keep doing it.  But some people seem to be very vocal in their outrage that artists won't work for free. They'll happily pay Microsoft $400 for Windows Vista Ultimate but cry bloody murder about paying third party artists $4.95 for content.  My Xbox 360 cost quite a bit too but amazingly, the games aren't free. Those "greedy" game companies! 

Here's some of the comments on Blissful Sunset:

"It's absolutely ridiculous that they're charging for this-- it's just wrong. But for people who own Vista Ultimate, just wait, I guarantee you that this will come w/ the final Dreamscene when it's released. "

According to this user, it's morally wrong for artists to be paid for their work.  He's quite incorrect about Blissful Sunset coming with the final.

Another user wrote this:

"The implication (with MS showing it at official events) is that this development is work that was part of your contract with MS and therefore has already been subsidized and is in fact being paid for by all of us by our shelling out extra bucks for Ultimate edition."

This falls under the "no good deed goes unpunished" category.  Microsoft was looking for high quality content to show off during their demos but didn't want to give away some of the stuff that will be coming in the final release so they asked us if they could show the extra content we made. We agreed to let them. After all, it's pretty cool to see your work up on stage. But this person (and others) have tried to argue that we should simply give away all the animated wallpaper for free that we've made because we made the ones that come with it.  How does that make sense?

Over at Valve's Steam website, a user posted "Stardock sux" and writes:

"This is just unbelievable. Stardock is now charging us for what is supposed to be a FREE Vista Ultimate Extra"

This line of thinking is equivalent to saying that someone who bought say Half-Life 2 via Steam is somehow entitled to HL2: Episode 0 and HL2: Episode 1 and so forth. After all, they paid for Half-Life, why should they have to pay for additional content?  In fact, that's been one of the trends in the "outrage" group. Sure, there's 18 dreams that are free. But they shouldn't have to pay for anything because they bought Windows Vista Ultimate. I just totally can't grasp that mindset.  In what universe does someone buying a version of Windows entitle them to free software and content created by third parties?  Heck, my cell phone tries to get me to pay money for additional ring tones!

So here's what's going to happen -- one of these 2 things are going to occur:

Possibility #1: Users decide animated wallpaper is worthless.  In that case, Stardock Design won't be creating any more for consumers. Remember, Stardock Design currently has a 6 to 1 ratio in free to premium content.  At that point, consumers would just have to hope that individual artists  --who understand that there's no chance they'll ever be able to even make some extra side income from their efforts-- will take the time to create spectacular animated wallpapers that loop perfectly and are encoded in high quality at high-definition. Maybe that would happen but I wouldn't count on it.

In addition, since the bandwidth bill would still exist, users would have to buy WinCustomize subscriptions to download after awhile.  So the "free beer" crowd would have to find their content elsewhere. But don't count on these being available on most sites. At 50+ megabytes a pop, it's a lot of bandwidth. Someone has to pay for it.

And of course, that would mean the software would have to start charging for extra features. Want to pay 3D dynamic content? The user would have to get the "Pro" version.  The point being, the costs of producing, supporting, and developing this stuff has to come from somewhere. Personally, I think a system which nearly everything is free but a handful of premium content isn't free is a pretty good arrangement for everyone.

Possibility #2: Enough users decide that there's value to animated wallpaper. If something comes along that is of exceptional quality happens to ask for a few bucks, then it's worth buying.  In that event, what would happen is that it would attract more and more talented people who would submit lots of free ones in the hope of eventually being able to occasionally release premium ones to help recoup their time and costs. It's worth mentioning one more time - Stardock Design's free to non-free ratio so far is 6 to 1. If other studios and independent artists of great skill start to do the same, that sounds like a win-win.

So far, the results have been good. In the first 4 hours of "Blissful Sunset" we sold over 200 copies of it. Whether that trend continues remains to be seen. There's always a big bump at the beginning. The typical WindowBlinds Master skin has an initial bump and then eventually trends to around 5 per day after awhile.  But even 5 per day, put over time, is worth it.  The author's share of that ends up being around $3,500 per year per skin (not counting the initial bump) -- enough to buy a new computer.  But skins are different because it's an established thing.  Animated wallpapers are brand-new. How things progress with animated wallpaper remains to be seen.

 

63,915 views 190 replies
Reply #1 Top
Whiny b******s...same people probably shell out a buck for a ringtone without batting an eye.  
Reply #2 Top
Glad you spoke up! I couldn't agree more with what you've said. I read the Blissful Sunset comment flames earlier today and couldn't believe how cheap people are. Creating good artwork takes a lot of time and effort, not to mention skill. The top skinners of the past have wound up putting little content out after a while as they move on to paying jobs skinning apps and sites for companies. As a community, we are not going to be able to get those who put out the best content to continue doing so without at least some recompense.

I am one of those that purchased Blissful Sunset today and am thrilled with it. The quality, smoothness and appearance are excellent, far above any "landscape" type Dream that has come out so far on Wincustomize. I hope to see more outstanding content in the future and am willing to pay an occasional pittance in order to keep the quality Dreams coming.
Reply #3 Top
Well, I am one of those first 200 sold and I really like it. If people would just understand the concept of Stardocks way of doing business, then they would see the logic behind it. I myself, and I am sure that I am not alone, get paid weekly from my employer. And during that week, I may go above and beyond my regular duties but I am not immediately compensated. But, in due time, I will recieve my compensation for my efforts. Everyone deserves to get paid, as I am sure that you would not work for free........Or would you?
Reply #4 Top
I bought it and it looks great. Well worth the money. Let your sales tell you what people are willing to pay for, not loudmouths on the forum.
Reply #5 Top

Good luck Brad.  I hope that the dream business is successful; I believe it will be.

What I see is people saying "I spent the extra money for Ultimate to get the extras for free."

First, what a stupid reason to buy Ultimate.  Ultimate should be bought teo get the benefits of Business and Media.  Extras are extras, not a cause unto themselves.

Second, Microsoft and Stardock are not the same and money paid to one does not equal profit to the other.  It seems that many of the sheeple think that by paying money to MS they are due the free enhancement, composer, and content from Stardock.  Boo hoo to them. 

This too shall pass. 

Reply #6 Top
Possibility #2: Enough users WILL decide that there's value to animated wallpaper.


Animated walls will take off. It's just a matter of waiting for the market to develop. Let the whiners buzz around like mosquitos. They're about as bothersome and mindless.
Some mindsets just aren't logical, and that's how it is.
One's time is worth money. By the hour, by the bid, piecework, salary, percentage, commission, however it's figured.
Reply #7 Top
I'm totally amazed at how much free stuff there is here.

If you by a PS3, an x-box, or a wii do you get unlimited free games?

Reply #9 Top
Great post Zoomba, your analogies are spot on. I'd like to see those leechers try to work a day without being compensated for it and see how they like it. They can all take a long walk off a short pier and whine about that. But the fact of the matter is that there will always be people out there with an entitlement complex and think everything should be handed to them for free without even thinking about the work and sacrifice that was put into it. Boo hoo indeed.

Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna complain to the car dealership that I want free gas to come with my car since I shelled out $10k for it.
Reply #10 Top
It's probably one of the downside of attracting a new kind of public that wasn't visiting sites like wincustomize before. Given the number of sales versus the amount of negative comments, I hope it's only going to be a vocal minority.

If I remember correctly we always have had people like that, asking to get everything for free. They were complaining when Stardock launched Wincustomize, they were there when treetog and alexandrie sold the first premium suites, etc.

As for me, VS is almost like my wallpaper and given enough caffeine and lack of sleep, source code animates quite nicely   

Reply #11 Top
Couldn't edit my post. Meant to say Brad instead of Zoomba, d'oh!
Reply #12 Top
I won't be buying it anytime soon, but then again I don't have Vista.

People will always have thier opinions on what should and shouldn't be free. It's in a capitalist society that "value" is placed on a commodity.

If some feel a particular piece of art should be free, they can make the decision not to buy it. If someone feels it's worth the asking price, then they might just buy it.

I would also add that you have to consider the source of the comment(s). The internet is full of people who can go off on something half-cocked because there are no real consequences for their actions or, in this case, words. I'm not saying that the "outragers" are all kids, but let's be realistic...based on the tone and content of a post, you can usually discern someone's age or at least maturity level. Take their rude and terse comments with a grain of salt.
Reply #13 Top
No one would complain if they didn't want it. It's just "the way" of some people to deal with thier "lack" by bashing those who provide for a price.

I totally understand the amount of time involved in making good artwork and am happy to pay for it. FYI...have you looked at the cost of stock video footage lately...anywhere from $50 to $5000 depending on the quality and content. Of course...HD content is extremely high priced.

Just try to edit together a loop of video cleanly...it's not easy, I know, I've been an editor for 20 years now. None of this is easy and the software needed to do good editing alone is $1500+ (Can you say Avid?) And that doesn't even include the powerhouse PC you need. I'm sure the CGI stuff is at least comparible in price if not more.

Let 'em whine Brad...don't fall for it. Whining never got anyone anywhere...it's pratically another form of terrorism.
Reply #14 Top
Who cares what there say I love this site. I visit the site twice a day and read your posts. I agree people should be paid for there work. Keep up the good work!   
Reply #15 Top
Brad I think you have to take into account the price your setting forth for these dreamscene wallpapers. For just 4$ more I can get a whole Premium suite which includes a variety of different things, atleast 35 icons, a Windowblinds skin, wallpapers, probably a Logon and Boot skin, and so on.

Perhaps it would be slightly better to lower the costs? It just doesn't seem worth it when I can get so much more if I wanted to for just 4$ more.
Reply #16 Top

Pricing is always tricky. The problem with net buying is if you go much less than $5 then after credit card fees it's barely worth it.  Plus, we need to set a predecent as to what these will go for when others get into it.

If say the price were $3 then a third party selling it would get only around $1 at which point it's barely worth the time.

In terms of hours, making these things is very time consuming. The average person doesn't have a render farm and at Stardock, the .dreams have to compete with the game's team for time on the render farm.

I don't think animated wallpaper is going to be the next "big thing" by any means.  But at the same time, I do know how much it costs to produce them at the quality people want and how much it's costing to support them on the site and those costs have to be covered somewhere.

Reply #17 Top
Everyone that has a legit windows Vista Ultimate can afford this premium dream. If they're willing to shell out cash for just ultimate rather then any other version of vista, they definately can afford this. It's just i guess the timing is the problem.

First of all lemme say i'm very greatful for stardock and their contribution to eletronic artwork. Certainly brighten up my computerlife.. at times i would spend hours just customizing my PC so my E-life is more enjoyable. But i guess when people bought ultimate, they expected every other thing to be free that comes along with it. Especially when dreams are still very new and limited, releasing a $-dream would give people the impression that they'll need to pay more money for plenty of other dreams in future.

To sum up
Is E-Art worth the money, i'll say yes.
but timing and expectations will determine the E-Art's worth.
Reply #18 Top
Hey don't get me wrong, I (unlike many Im sure) bought Ultimate Full (upgrade=no damn way). I just get kind of discouraged when I see something like this needing to be paid for when I spent an extra amount and got this feature as part of the version I purchased.

I understand people need to make money, But making 1$ off it aint that bad if you end up selling a good couple thousand is it?
Reply #19 Top

Hey don't get me wrong, I (unlike many Im sure) bought Ultimate Full (upgrade=no damn way). I just get kind of discouraged when I see something like this needing to be paid for when I spent an extra amount and got this feature as part of the version I purchased.

Sure, but you paid Microsoft for Windows Vista Ultimate. Not Stardock or some independent artist.  If Microsoft wants to pay us to make dreams to give away, that's certainly their perogative.

The Dreams from Stardock Design were created by Stardock's Game Team. The same art team that made the art for the award-winning Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar (the game that just got an A+ from the Sci Fi channel today) created the DreamScenes.  Now, if people think it should all be free, so be it, the art team is perfectly happy to focus on making art for the games. 

The art team at Stardock are paid salaries. It's their job.  Those salaries are paid by the company which receives its money from consumers and corporations. Without that revenue, the art team either gets laid off or has to be put on something else (like the aforementioned games).

Reply #20 Top

understand people need to make money, But making 1$ off it aint that bad if you end up selling a good couple thousand is it?

It costs far more than a couple thousand to create one of these in the quality that we're talking about and that's just in the literal art time. Throw in render farm time, QA, and distribution and it adds up pretty quickly. 

Reply #21 Top
Ive seen plenty of skins here get downloaded roughly 100 thousand times if not more. So making roughly 1$ off each purchase isnt that bad if you sell say 50 thousand. I understand that their probably isnt that many people that would buy it right now due to Vista's recent release. But im sure in the future that number isnt entirely out of the question, no?
Reply #22 Top

Ive seen plenty of skins here get downloaded roughly 100 thousand times if not more. So making roughly 1$ off each purchase isnt that bad if you sell say 50 thousand. I understand that their probably isnt that many people that would buy it right now due to Vista's recent release. But im sure in the future that number isnt entirely out of the question, no?

If they sold 50,000 copies, then yea, that would be fine. But they won't.

I'd say that a good premium (master) skin/wall/theme will sell around 3,000 per year. A really popular one might sell 5,000.  Which, at $2 apiece for the author is a decent extra income I'd say.  Make 4 or 5 of them and you could live on it.  But at $1 apiece, it ain't happening.

Reply #23 Top

honestly i dont understand what the big deal is? Why are people bitching about paying you money for your product? When people buy stuff on the internet from other companies, do they spend time on that company's Webpage complaining about how they cant believe that they are being charged for the product they want? No, they shut the *%$# up and shell out the cash...that would be my suggestion for those who have a problem with spending a few dollars for a .dream theme...

I dont think you should have to defend why your charging for your effort. Your established. Anyone one of us if in the same situation would love to get paid for our efforts! Especially when you give so much away for free..........sheeze....
Reply #24 Top
Well it would definitly help if the market for Dreamscene walls was bigger thats for sure.

I understand why you have to put a price up for them, I just don't agree with the concept.
Reply #25 Top
OMG what a joke. See the way it was said. "IS ART WORTHLESS" No ART is not WORTHLESS on the internet. But this is Wincustomize so they will brown nose Startdock. Its not what Startdock makes its that MS had it for so long everyone saw it. Now its like ok now BUY it. Anyone that spends time to draw and make and put together something and think its worth a price I say go for it. For me it just this one. And I think $5 is way to much.

Sorry but since when is Stardock right and WE are wrong. Like I said they will keep charging no matter what anyone says. Others will jump on the wagon to get there $5. So what is so bad about Microsofts sences? See if you want to USE Stardocks fancy ones your going to have to PAY. As of now there not better nor do they use less memory. Because you make a moving background does not make you a artist. I have been blessed to meet some great artists and MAKING money was not the reason they did it.