What Does It Mean to Serve Your Country?

One of the things I enjoy about this site is that there are a lot of military personnel and their families who blog here. Being part of the JU community has given me an "inside look" at some of the aspects of this war that the mainstream media will almost certainly never, ever cover.

But one of the consequences of that has been certain ill advised, negative posts that quantify someone's service. Specifically, soldiers who like to frag military brass anonymously with their posts because somehow if you don't drive a Humvee or stand at the giving end of an assault rifle, you just don't measure up. Putting aside the fact that any asshat who has the time to troll the forums to take on brass they would never have the cajones to confront in real life has it a darn sight better than most generations of military before them, I have strong issues with this mentality.

Those issues are enhanced everytime a prominent journalist or politician suggests the reinstatement of a military draft, based on the premise that I and others have not done our duty if we didn't serve. It's insulting, it's condescending, and it's downright wrong.

Let me be absolutely blunt: I did not serve in the military. If for some reason I was forced to do so or compelled to do so, I would almost certainly attempt to serve in a noncombat role. I have moral objections to the taking of a human life, and no military draft will erase those feelings. But I have served, I will continue to serve, and I will contest anyone who says I did not.

There are as many ways to serve your country as there are people. Sure, we see the military out there fighting for our country. But for every face we see, there are millions who do not. Those military personnel need equipment. What of the people who manufacture parts, weapons, clothing, and food (yes, we apologize for that. But come on, the standard of MRE's has improved SOMEWHAT over the years, has it not?)? Those people serve their country in as real and as meaningful a way as the soldiers overseas. What of the politicians who work (arguably) to preserve the Constitution of this country? Do they not serve their country as well? And what of all of the individuals who work to preserve the standard of living? We certainly serve. As tech support personnel for an ISP, I know that I keep a line of communication open between soldiers serving overseas and their families that wasn't possible in years past...a line of communication that certainly helps morale.

World War II was won by sheer strength of will. Ordinary citizens were encouraged to do their part to help the war effort. Everyone from the factory worker to the schoolchild was enlisted to help. Families planted Victory Gardens to help reduce the demand on the market for food products. And nobody's accomplishments were deemed more worthy than another's.

Over my life, I have actively participated in over a dozen campaigns, one as a candidate. I have worked as a firefighter, a political lobbyist and a miner, among many other occupations. I have paid my taxes, volunteered my time, and given to various charities. All of those contributions have served my country in one way or another. And all of them are as important to my country and my community as the efforts of a soldier who serves overseas.

I will never disrespect our soldiers for their sacrifices, even if I disagree with many policies of this administration. But in return, I ask that those soldiers not disrespect me for my service as a civilian. Yes, your families never know when you will return home. But even the life of a civilian is not without risk. I assure you my wife was filled with just as much anxiety when a miner was pulled from the stope of a mine following a rockfall in the mine I was working and airlifted to UMC in Las Vegas, because HIPPA laws prevented the mine from revealing the name of the accident victim, and we were not allowed to call out until procedures had been followed. I can also assure you that my wife was filled with anxiety in the March 13th wildfire when word got back to the evacuated families (yes, our community was evacuated) that one of our trucks had rolled and that three of our firefighters were being treated at the local hospital. And there will be many other times, I assure you, when my wife will have cause to worry.

Don't get me wrong, I am proud of your service. I am grateful for your service, and I'm anxious for ALL of you to come home. But don't EVER assume that I, or anyone else, for that matter, has served less. Because you simply do not KNOW.

12,415 views 39 replies
Reply #1 Top
Anyone who holds done a job and is self supporting, paying (or paid) their taxes and voting is serving their country.
Reply #2 Top
Mr. Macleish,

I have run into crybabies like you a lot in my old profession. I worked at Lockheed-martin a defense contractor and all I heard was whining about how they did not serve in the military and how they wished they had served and did their part for their country. This particular statement came from a Chinese immigrant who wrote the algorithms that allows guided missiles to hit not just the building of choice but the specific room on a specific floor from 1800 miles away. To him and the other crybabies I wrote the following and sent it to all of them. I now include you with this letter.

To: Office Pogys, Pencil pushers, Cube rats, and others that think their lives here are boring and unimportant.

It has come to our attention that some of you crave excitement and in some ways resent the lives you have chosen or feel you are working at pitifully boring jobs. While us at the pointy end of the spear get to have all the fun and excitement in foreign lands.

We at the pointy end of the spear want you to push pencils, crunch numbers, put squiggles on paper and we especially want you to have boring and uneventful lives. We want you to go home to your families and tell them you had another boring day doing nothing important. From our point of view you create first aid for SSAM (Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Gods gift to the planet earth Marines) When a soldier or a Marine is in a fox hole with an overwhelming force in the advance we call first aid and guided mortar or 155 rounds start falling around the enemy and we get another chance to come home alive. We want you bored to tears and go home with the worse battle of the day is fighting traffic.

When a soldier, Navy SEaL, or a Marine FAST Company needs back-up and an apache or F-15 comes out of the sky and guided munitions start to fall, that is truly first aid.
Again we get a chance to come home alive.

When JASSM slides through a window on the 18th floor and takes out a bunch of people planning another attack on U.S. soil lives are saved and you get to fight traffic again. Please stay bored. Whatever you are doing that gets the job done keep doing it cause you are what keeps us safe.

You are force multipliers. Because the gadgets you create allow the military to put less people at risk. And more people get a chance to come home alive.

Feel unimportant if you wish, feel bored if you must, just remember that we at the pointy end of the spear can’t do much without your boring lives. Sit in your comfy homes, watch TV, and feel unimportant but, every time you see a serviceman or servicewoman with those pretty ribbons on their chest as they tell exciting stories. Just remember it was YOU that helped bring them home.

Sighed: The people on the pointy end of the spear!


You see sir, Ms. Jennifer is correct. You are doing your part. You work hard and pay your taxes. You are not a drain on society. It does not matter if you are for or against the war on terror, or for or against the fighting in Iraq or for or against the president and his policies. If you are an American you are doing your part. If you are a Btit you are a valued friend and your sacrifice is noted by Americans. Please understand that the people that truly get it
Reply #3 Top
Someone was criticizing your service because you are non-military?
Reply #4 Top
Paladin77 - I think you may need to re-read the article as you seem to have entirely missed the point. Further it is more than a little odd to preface a long ststement about how appreciated civilians are by referring to them as "crybabies".
Reply #5 Top
Paladin77 - I think you may need to re-read the article as you seem to have entirely missed the point. Further it is more than a little odd to preface a long ststement about how appreciated civilians are by referring to them as "crybabies".


Yeah, it is called sarcastic humor, you might want to look it up. The man that sparked the letter was a Chinese immigrant who had worked for Lockheed Martin for over 30 years and still kicked himself for not going to Vietnam but instead invented weapons that saved thousands of American lives, many more than if he had gone to fight a war. Not understanding what I wrote makes sense if you don’t understand what an immigrant sees as a tremendous obligation to his adopted nation. He made millions on the patents through the years yet he and his wife in their 60’s still go to work every day to help this nation they were not born in. It is their way of paying us back for allowing them to live free. Yet he still wishes to do more. Only people not born in America think this way about America. It brings tears to my eyes to see that people born in America don’t see how good they have it.
Reply #6 Top

Good points gid, not everyone gets a chance to be a warrior, but let me be the first to say going to war ain't all what it's cracked up to be, trust me on this one.

 

elie

Reply #7 Top
Good points gid, not everyone gets a chance to be a warrior, but let me be the first to say going to war ain't all what it's cracked up to be, trust me on this one.


I have to agree with you here! I am still pullin lead out of my body some years later. For some reason I did not see getting shot as fun.
Reply #8 Top
Yeah, it is called sarcastic humor, you might want to look it up.


No it is called being rude (and counter-productive considering the content of your "letter"). Look it up.
Reply #9 Top
No it is called being rude (and counter-productive considering the content of your "letter"). Look it up.


No thanks, I have a grasp on the English language. Your opinion will be ignored by me.
Reply #10 Top

Gideon, you know that I do have the utmost respect for you.  I feel that you have/have had many admirable goals and accomplishments.  I DO believe that you have contributed much to our society. 

I just can't equate the service of a civilian to the service of someone serving in combat.  The nature of the contribution is so different that I almost find it offensive to try to compare the two.  Yes, civilian and Soldier are both necessary, but the sacrifice of one does not remotely compare to the sacrifice of the other.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from on this.

Reply #11 Top
it is called sarcastic humor


except that to be humor it's supposed to be HUMOR-ous. Which it wasn't.

I have a grasp on the English language


A tenous one at best, obviously . . .
Reply #12 Top
Personally, I don't think anything good can come out of comparing people's sacrifices. It just feels icky to me.

I just can't equate the service of a civilian to the service of someone serving in combat. The nature of the contribution is so different that I almost find it offensive to try to compare the two.


TW--In most the majority of cases, I agree with you. But I think that there are a handful of extreme jobs out there (firefighting, for example) where people are putting their lives on the line every single day, willingly and with no fixed end date.

Reply #13 Top
TW--In most the majority of cases, I agree with you. But I think that there are a handful of extreme jobs out there (firefighting, for example) where people are putting their lives on the line every single day, willingly and with no fixed end date.



I will admit to being a bit of a military elitist (heh, which is funny since I'm a civilian).

But I will also suggest that those non-military life-or-death, self-sacrificing for the good of others type careers are not "civilian" (and that not all military careers require that same self-sacrifice that I feel sets a Soldier apart from an accountant or teacher or nurse or other honest, honorable, necessary taxpaying citizen).
Reply #14 Top
But I will also suggest that those non-military life-or-death, self-sacrificing for the good of others type careers are not "civilian"


I think I agree with you, then.
Reply #15 Top
I can't imagine who would try to diss you for not having been on active duty Gideon. Now that the folks have to register to troll, there should be a lot less of that.
Since we train military firefighters in my Company here, I know how hard the job any firefighter does is. And to prove how dangerous it is, I just need to go out to the firefighters memorial that we have here.
Reply #16 Top

I can't imagine who would try to diss you for not having been on active duty Gideon. Now that the folks have to register to troll, there should be a lot less of that.

No, it was a spinoff. I do get the "you didn't serve, so you have no right to have an opinion on the war" quite a bit, but what really raised my hackles was the attack on HW by some anonymous troll who felt that HW's service was less substantial than his. And it got me thinking about the "I didn't serve" guilt that's so readily handed out to those in the civilian sector.

I guarantee you the last thing the US military would want is Gid at the end of a gun. While there are other ways to serve, It's unlikely that I would pass a physical to even get that opportunity (I'm quite sure my computer skills themselves could be a valid contribution). I don't feel I should ever have to feel ashamed, or somewhat less of a man because I didn't serve in the military. Because I've served my country far more than most, in various ways.

But I will also suggest that those non-military life-or-death, self-sacrificing for the good of others type careers are not "civilian" (and that not all military careers require that same self-sacrifice that I feel sets a Soldier apart from an accountant or teacher or nurse or other honest, honorable, necessary taxpaying citizen).

Brandie,

I partly agree with you. But only partly. Here's why.

See, first of all being a soldier does not automatically confer a special status on anyone. Yes, there are soldiers who serve honorably, and I hope that's true of most of our soldiers (I assume it is). But there are soldiers whose service is NOT honorable, who do not deserve to be celebrated for their accomplishments. The military does try to weed them out, but they do exist nonetheless.

Second, because soldiers would not be able to do what they do without civilians, it is important to note the contributions of civilians. World War II would not have been won without MASSIVE contributions from the civilian sector. We all do what we can do, and what matters is how we serve in any capacity more than how we serve in a specific capacity.

I respect that you don't categorize firefighters, etc, as civilians, but I can think of countless individuals who cannot even serve in that capacity whose service to their country puts to shame just about every soldier or firefighter I can think of. Individuals who have given of their time to their communities, and who have left the world a better place than they found it. It seems to me a waste to extoll the virtues of one area of service over another, when we would not be where we are without the service of a LOT of people in a LOT of areas.

In the field I work in, for instance, I would not think it wrong to say that many lives have probably been saved. Because of the increase in reliability of communications (not that you can tell when the customers are calling in all night long, but I digress), not only have our soldiers been able to receive better intel, but they've been better able to communicate with their families, and 911 personnel have been better equipped with directions and pertinent information that can more efficiently enable them to do their jobs. I would say that computers are as essential to today's military as are the weapons and other gear.

What I was responding to specifically was the attack on HW by some random moronic soldier that felt HW's service as an officer was somehow less than his. It was insulting (and beautifully defended, both by HW and lifehappens), and it got me to thinking about how much of others' contributions we dismiss. Feel proud of the military all you want, but don't ever dismiss the contributions of civilians...some of which have made the military a tad more tolerable for those who serve,

 

You see sir, Ms. Jennifer is correct. You are doing your part. You work hard and pay your taxes. You are not a drain on society. It does not matter if you are for or against the war on terror, or for or against the fighting in Iraq or for or against the president and his policies. If you are an American you are doing your part. If you are a Btit you are a valued friend and your sacrifice is noted by Americans. Please understand that the people that truly get it

Paladin,

Frankly, I took offense to your response, especially since you called me a crybaby, then proceeded to RESTATE THE VERY POINT I WAS MAKING! You're not going to get anywhere with name calling and personal attacks, and if it continues, you're not going to find yourselves being able to respond on my blogs. Got it?

 

 

Reply #17 Top

Paladin,

I don't know why you decided to make your asshole attitude the basis for a personal attack, but since you decided to parade your contemptuous attitude on your own blog, good riddance. If JU would let me delete your comment, I'd be putting it into the garbage bin where it belongs. Better thank JU admin for that feature being unavailable so you can advertise your blog on my replies.

Reply #18 Top
I guarantee you the last thing the US military would want is Gid at the end of a gun


after completing the rest of my draft physical, i was was ushered into the office of a marine captain for an additional interview. upon being asked what i intended to do should i be ordered to report for induction and somehow found myself complying with that order, i said almost exactly the same thing about myself, adding 'nor would i want to be the person commanding me once i was armed and trained.'

he looked at me very intently for a moment or two before nodding his head and signing a form, handing it to me and instructing me where to deliver it and the rest of the stuff i'd been accumulating and carrying with me throughout the process.

apparently he believed me.

within minutes i was walking outta the venerable downtown chicago 'fort' having decided to pass on the free lunch. shortly thereafter i received notifcation i'd been reclassified as eligible for service only in time of war or national emergency.
Reply #19 Top
after completing the rest of my draft physical, i was was ushered into the office of a marine captain for an additional interview. upon being asked what i intended to do should i be ordered to report for induction and somehow found myself complying with that order, i said almost exactly the same thing about myself, adding 'nor would i want to be the person commanding me once i was armed and trained.'

he looked at me very intently for a moment or two before nodding his head and signing a form, handing it to me and instructing me where to deliver it and the rest of the stuff i'd been accumulating and carrying with me throughout the process.

apparently he believed me.

within minutes i was walking outta the venerable downtown chicago 'fort' having decided to pass on the free lunch. shortly thereafter i received notifcation i'd been reclassified as eligible for service only in time of war or national emergency.


I have to admit, kingbee, that I'm almost dismayed I never had to report to a draft board...I was quite looking forward to singing a couple of bars of "Alice's Restaurant" for the board.

Ahhh, well, I'll just have to make sure my CHILDREN stay properly corrupted. There will always be a business in sending kids off to die, sadly enough.
Reply #20 Top
I was quite looking forward to singing a couple of bars of "Alice's Restaurant" for the board.


I heard that song for the first time in mid-November when Adrian was home on leave. We listened to the whole song, the entire time thinking, "What the hell?"

So weird.
Reply #21 Top
So weird.


LOL...yeah, Arlo's a piece of work. I've enjoyed listening to him do more mainstream stuff as the years progress.

BTW, totally off topic, but did you see the Dateline episode on the Harvesters from a week ago? It was all the rage in these parts (for obvious reasons...lol!)
Reply #22 Top
Yep, I sure did. I don't usually watch Dateline, but for some reason I checked it out and was completely surprised by the subject matter. It was too boring to sit through (blasphemy, I know!), but I figured it was going to be a big deal over there.
Reply #23 Top
I heard that song for the first time in mid-November when Adrian was home on leave. We listened to the whole song, the entire time thinking, "What the hell?"


wanna know what's a whole galaxy weirder? a major studio released a full-on hollywood pro-duct-shun motion pitchur filmed in panavision an cinemascope with dual-channel stereophonic sound sorta pseudo-, semi-, quasi-, loosely-based on the events recounted in lil arlo's song--complete with re-enacted performances by a some of the actual participants. i'm sure you can rent it cuz it's shown up in the premium channel cable rotation a couple times in the past year.

they messed around and tossed in a buncha gratuitous drama, drug abuse and some free love n stuff. they also scripted in an opportunity for arlo to visit with woodie in that hospital in new jersey. to the best of my knowledge it was woodie's first and only appearance on the big screen.
Reply #24 Top
Just as an FYI (I've never seen the movie; I had to pull the info from imdb), that wasn't actually Woody in the film. The film was made in 1969, Woody passed in 1967.

But imdb DID pull one acting bit for Woody, an uncredited bit back in the '40's. I'll have to see if I can scare it up.
Reply #25 Top
Those issues are enhanced everytime a prominent journalist or politician suggests the reinstatement of a military draft, based on the premise that I and others have not done our duty if we didn't serve. It's insulting, it's condescending, and it's downright wrong.

i'm sorry, i just don't see that as being the point of bringing up the draft. if you take it as a personal insult, than that is your perrogative.

what i hear when the draft is brought up is that it is only brought up to point out that 90%+ of our nation's families don't have any relatives in the war. what they are trying to make a point of is that if there was a draft (one where the former "loopholes" were eliminated) then people might think harder before sending THEIR kids to war. i don't take that personally as far as what i have done with my life and for the record, i aced the ASVAB and failed the hearing test by a smidge during the reagan admin, thus was not allowed to serve. the recruiter told me that if i had applied a month before then my hearing test score would have passed. but reagan was trying to cut down troop levels and they could quietly do that by raising the physical standards.

the phrase "to serve your country" is just shortening the phrase "to serve your country in the military." that does not imply that there are not other ways to serve. it's just a phrase that has gotten shorter because everyone knows what you are talking about when someone says "serve your country." someone who holds office or works for the government is considered to be "in public service." many police cars have phrases like "to protect and serve" right on the car. etc, etc....