How Stardock failed the skinning community in 2006

A look back at what we didn't do and what we need to do

from WinCustomize Forums

WinCustomize.com is a website owned by Stardock. It was founded back in 2001 when the dot-com collapse took out most of the skin sites.  Stardock wanted to ensure that there was a stable home for people who wanted to create cool stuff to enhanced their Windows experience.

While 2006 was Stardock's best year from a traditional success point of view (doubled in size, more than doubled in revenue, helped produce stuff for Microsoft on Windows Vista, building partnerships with OEMs, and the game's division made one of the top PC games of last year), I believe Stardock failed the skinning community. It failed it utterly.

This is going to be long but I will try to identify the areas where Stardock blew it and what I think it needs to "make good".

The Failures

  • Awful documentation
  • Lack of support for skinners
  • Lack of community support
  • Lack of leadership

Awful Documentation

As bad as the documentation for making cool stuff for Stardock's apps appears, it's actually far far worse. And if you think it's really really bad, trust me, it's even worse than that.  It's not that we don't try. The problem is usually the only people who are good enough to make the documentation are the actual development teams who tend not to be very good at writing documentation. Ever looked at the actual text inside a WindowBlinds .UIS file?

Part of the problem stems from what Stardock really is as compared to "normal" companies.  We're a bunch of software developers.  Historically, almost pure coders.  Until 2002, Stardock had one artist in the entire company and he was assigned to do our games. In 2003, we brought in a second artist (also to work on games). That's insane.  But it didn't seem so.  Not to us anyway.

We've always been a tech company. We created technology for the sake of creating technology.  The fancy term for that these days are "thought leaders". That is, we think of stuff before other and try to crank it out. Those familiar with the misadventures of "TextBanners.net" may recall that we came up with text ads first. Yay. Neat technology but of course, Google owns that.  We came up with full GUI skinning. First on OS/2 back in the early 90s and then on Windows. And we even had user-created mini applications created via JavaScript back in 2000 (DesktopX).  But so what?

Without good documentation, tutorials, step by step guides, what is the point?  With WindowBlinds, we got lucky. So compelling was that program that users were willing to figure out the arcane format.  How arcane? This is from a WindowBlinds skin:

[Personality]
TextShiftNoIcon=-2
TextRightClipNoIcon=84
UsesTran=1
BUTTONCOUNT=26
TextAlignment=0
TextShift=-2
TextShiftVert=-3
TextRightClip=89
TextOnBottom=0
Menubar=YellowTab\YellowTabMainMenuBarImage.bmp
Top=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameTopUis2.bmp
Left=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameLeftUis2.bmp
Right=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameRightUis2.bmp
Bottom=YellowTab\YellowTabWindowFrameBottomUis2.bmp
TopTopHeight=23
TopBotHeight=48
LeftTopHeight=37
LeftBotHeight=9
RightTopHeight=26
RightBotHeight=9
BottomTopHeight=2
BottomBotHeight=2

This isn't a joke. That's what the WindowBlinds "language" looks like underneath SkinStudio. My favorite is the BottomTopHeight line. But like I said, it was compelling enough that people were willing to reverse-engineer it to make cool stuff.

Our documentation elsewhere has been much more lacking. We put out documentation but it's pretty awful. Probably the best documentation we have is for DesktopX. And it's not anything I'd consider competitive in quality to Yahoo Widgets's 308 page developer manual.  In fact, compare the DesktopX page to the Yahoo Widgets page. 

The problem at Stardock is myopia. I'm not a politically correct type of guy as many of you know but I say without ego being involved that DesktopX is far far superior to Yahoo Widgets or any of the other platforms from a technological point of view. In capability (on Windows) is a complete superset and then some.  As technologists, we simply assumed that was enough. Build a better mousetrap, etc.  But people won't use the "Better" mousetrap if it requires a PhD. to manufacture.

Let me ask you this -- Where is a modern WindowBlinds tutorial? Let's say I want to create a WindowBlinds 5 skin. How do I do it? Where's the nice friendly example that walks me through it?  Heck, the user guide that's on WindowBlinds.net is awful and the only reason it's not worse is that I went and edited what was originally put up there (complete with Times Roman font and MS Word artifacts).

In the beginning, when Stardock was smaller and the community smaller, much of these problems could be masked because me or one of the other developers at Stardock could personally answer questions on a forum.  But as Stardock has grown and we've gotten a lot busier, these glaring holes in our documentation became critical.  The WindowBlinds skinning guide that is on the page is from 2002. I kid you not. FOUR YEARS AGO!  The only thing that saves WindowBlinds skinning remotely is that SkinStudio, while not an easy to use application, is pretty decent. But it's not enough and the learning curve has only gotten worse.

Lack of Support for Skinners

You'd think the terrible documentation situation would be enough to cover the lack of support for skinners. But no, it's worse than that. Even setting aside the documentation, lack of organized tutorials, lack of step-by-step guides, etc. there's the fact that Stardock should have someone who is dedicated to doing nothing else but helping people become skinners.

Think about it. Stardock benefits from people making skins and themes right? Shouldn't it have a dedicated [email protected] type email address? It doesn't. Why not? We should. Heck, we wouldn't even need a full-time person. Just someone to help point people to tutorials (that presumably would exist), answer questions, give advice, etc. 

Instead, we leave people to the tender mercies of the forums (which I'll get to next).

Stardock doesn't even put out hardly any good example content any more (that it doesn't charge for! ) for people to learn from.  Stardock released one ObjectBar theme into the ObjectBar 2 gallery.  When was the last time Stardock released some new DesktopX gadgets, themes, etc?  How about some new ObjectDock samples?  ObjectDock 1.5 supports .dockzips. Do you see any in the gallery? I don't. We released nothing that uses it.

 

Lack of Community Support

Being good in the community was something we used to be great at. Sure, there were always the perpetual "free beer" people who objected to our existence (i.e. people who didn't like the idea of paying for software but themselves didn't write any software or make skins or anything) but overall, we were much more interactive.

Now, on the plus side, the # of "Frogboy is evil" posts we get in various places has declined. But I think, as a community, we were better off with some of that when Stardock people were more interactive. And, more importantly, setting an example.

The WinCustomize forums largely disgust me. Sorry but it needs to be said. WinCustomize's forums wreak of elitism and intolerance. Why are the forums not as busy as a site that gets millions of visitor should be? Because people come on, ask a question, make a mild criticism and then get creamed by old guard people who wish "newbies" would go away. One of the reasons why we really got behind WinCustomize.com in a big way after it was launched was because we were so pissed off at some of the elitism we saw elsewhere (I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about).  But while many of us old guys have been busy coding new stuff, the forums have become an increasingly hostile place.

And when they're not hostile, they're sterile and impersonal. I'd as much hang out on the WC forums as I'd hang out on the forums for my TV manufacturer.  Only because of the wondrous loyalty of many good-hearted folks are our forums even remotely capable of being rehabilitated.

Moreover, Stardock should have a community manager. Could even be the same guy who's helping skinners. Someone who's helping out on other sites. WinCustomize isn't the only skin site. What about SkinBase? They deserve more support from Stardock than they get.  Or tons of newer customization community sites too that I'm not even hanging out on.

Again, in the old days, Stardock's lack of infrastructure was masked.  I would get an email from someone ([email protected]) and quickly answer it.  But now, I get thousands of email a day. Hundreds of which request a response. As a result, I don't even see much of the email I get.  Realistically, I should ask someone to look through my email every day and flag anything that needs urgent attention.

 

Lack of leadership

We should be better at setting an example for how things should be done.  Stardock people should be in the forums. Stardock people should be making skins and releasing them. Should be making tutorials. Should be writing documentation. Should be answering questions. Should be commenting on skins. Should be hosting IRC chats. Should be making video demos. And so on and so on.  But we're not.

And so things tend to go to whomever is the loudest or has the deepest pockets.  I mean do skinners really envision a gadget future in which they're mucking with DHTML and Javascript to create a fixed size gadget for the Windows Vista Sidebar? Does that sound cool?  But what's the alternative? Making a PNG file that's tied up with some Javascript for a different multi-billion dollar company?

I've seen people on-line refer to us as "Those wizards at Stardock will think of something cool..."  Which is a very high complement. But if we want to be the thought leaders then we better bloody get back to leading on stuff.

Because I don't know about you guys but if my "skinning" options are either making another glass skin for the OS, making a weather gadget/widget for whatever or sitting it out, then forget it.

What needs to be done

It's easy for me to sit here and rip Stardock a new one. It's my company after all. Talk is cheap. What is Stardock going to actually do about this? And by do I mean realistically. Because if you read through my litany of complaints, the "solution" seems obvious -- in a perfect world. But it's not a perfect world.  We live in a world where I can't even hire a decent QA (Quality Assurance) person. We get people in for interviews who haven't even been to our webpage (first rule of thumb when interviewing for a job -- know something about the product or service that you are interested in being involved with).

Here are the things I think Stardock must do in 2007:

  • Make is easier to create stuff for our software
  • Organize support for skinners
  • Get more involved in the community
  • Lead by example

Make it easier...

Updating documentation is an obvious thing that needs to be done.  But it needs to go beyond that.  Stardock needs to develop visually easy to understand tutorials that walk a user through how to create something.

It also needs to update its software (particularly SkinStudio) in such a way to make it easier to create skins.  More specifically, there should be beginner, intermediate, and advanced ways to create stuff both from a tools point of view and a tutorial/documentation point of view.

It should be consistent across the board. Everywhere on all Stardock's products there should be guides focused on beginners, intermediate, and advanced users.

Organize Support for Skinners

Stardock should create an off-shoot of the next WinCustomize.com (like skinners.wincustomize.com) that is dedicated purely to learning the art of skinning. Everything should show up there and it should be reasonably well organized.

Moreover, Stardock should have a person who is officially responsible for helping people get into this. Have a question on how to create an alpha blended title bar for WindowBlinds?  Need help creating an animated wallpaper (well, not yet but soon...), How do I make a new boot screen for Windows Vista? How do I make a docklet for ObjectDock? And so on.

Part of this also comes in the form of trying to support other people's standards.  For example, DesktopX 3.5 will export content to the Windows Sidebar. So people who don't think it particularly joyful to muck around with DHTML and Javascript can instead use a proven environment with updated documentation and tutorials to create new stuff.

But more to the point, someone at Stardock should always be on-hand to help out on this. It should be someone specific too. Not a "skinner support department" but literally someone who is part of the community that works at Stardock that you know and feel you can talk to individually.

Get more involved in the community

This is like the above example but it has more to do with non-skinners.  Stardock needs to be more involved on a day to day basis in the community. That means hanging out on forums.  I recognize that the days of me participating in some lengthy discussion on Neowin.net or deviantART or Customize.org are long gone. There's just not the time anymore.  But someone needs to be doing it. 

We're working on that already.  IslandDog is working on this already and I imagine you'll be seeing him in a lot of other areas as we develop this new strategy.

But there's going to be some pain on WinCustomize 2007.  We're going to bring down the hammer on elitism. Any user who comes across as a bully or "anti-newbie" won't be welcome.  WinCustomize.com's forums should be thought of as a lounge to hang out with friends. The forums will be modified to support a more "community" like atmosphere.

People email me and I just don't see the emails -- literally. One user on a blog said that "Stardock's success has gone to Brad's head".  My egomania aside, the reason I don't answer emails isn't that I don't care about folks anymore but rather a simple matter of logistics. Heck, I missed Microsoft's invitation to go to CES (luckily I found out via other channels).  I just don't see the emails. Most of my time is spent doing other things. I'm actually better known in the game industry these days than in the skinning world.

But it is still the company's responsibility to replace my presence with someone else's. Otherwise, Stardock might as well just be yet another Internet business out there to squeeze money from people. People who know us know that we're in this because it's fun to do.  But to a newcomer, if we don't behave any differently than any other "business" why should we expect to be seen as any different?

So we absolutely have to rectify that in a big way.

Lead by example

Picture this: The year is 2001. DesktopX objects are starting to become popular. WindowBlinds vs. msstyles have heated up. And the sky seems unlimited in terms of new cool stuff from not just Stardock but shareware and freeware people from around the world. Great eh?

But then the ghost of Christmas future shows up and tells you that by the end of 2006 that widgets have become various ways to skin clocks, weather readers and RSS feeds (there's nothing wrong with that but then a specialized app could/should have been made for those 3 things that is MUCH easier to create skins for and that skins could be shared). And Hoverdesk and Litestep were either dead or on life support and that the ObjectBar 2 gallery had one theme in it.  Who would have believed it?

Without leadership, you have inertia.

I wrote recently how the most damaging thing to skinning has been the length of time it took Microsoft to do Windows Vista.  This is true. That is, one can legitimately argue that the skinning community shouldn't expect Stardock to come up with all the new stuff. But on the other hand, if Stardock wants to be perceived as a "leader" in this growing trend, it needs to do stuff.

That means:

  1. Create state of the art content to give away to show what is possible.
  2. Show, in as many ways and places as possible, how that state of the art stuff was created
  3. Find new and cool things for people to do on their computers
  4. Create programs and tools (and make as many of them free as possible) to do those cool things.
  5. Present what you do with respect to others. Skinning should be fun. Skinning is fun.
  6. Interact with skinners and help them proactively.

To do these things, we are trying to build up the manpower to do this.  It has been slow going though.  The problems described in this article are things we've seen and been aware of. But solving them means bringing on talented people to help us. And that has been a real challenge. We want to hire people. But the # of people who can really do the job is amazingly small.

Conclusions

So there you have it. How Stardock failed the skinning community in 2006. I hope I do not have to write something similar next year.  The pieces are starting to come together now. But we have a lot of work ahead of ourselves. 

It mostly boils down to too much work for too few people. We've got projects going on with major PC OEMs, Microsoft, Take 2, and beyond which, for a company of around 50 people total is just immense. Especially when the ones who have traditionally "done" the stuff that made Stardock what it is today are now stretched between so many things.  But that's our problem and it is something we have to resolve.

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, criticism you have to offer. There's a LOT to look forward to next year. And this year has been a great year. But it was definitely not a shining beacon for Stardock's support of the skinning community.  We'll do better.

69,454 views 157 replies
Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think to help bring along new skinners, you'll actually need a separate area, a beta area if you want. Where people can start developing a skin, and then get constructive feedback. The comments could be tied to the version of the skin, so each version would 'start fresh'. You could keep an archive of the previous comments and allow the author to make notes on each comment on why or why not they took a suggestion (yes, they can do this with adding an additional comment, but it would be much better if they could visually tie their words to the original post, rather than reference 10 posts down). I would recommend a kind of expiration, if you haven't updated your experiment within a certain reasonable amount of time, it will be taken off the list so people can focus their energies on non-abandoned skins

I would recommend when improving your documentation and interfaces for your programs to make things easier you focus on one or two at a time, and really churn them out in small, quick iterations. Don't try to conquer your whole suite at once, just let us know where your focus is going to be. The community can forgive much if their favorite app isn't being focused on yet, as long as they are informed. I wince as I type this as I have a feeling that my favorite app Object Bar will be at the back of the pack, but oh well.

Your post actually came at an opportune time, I was considering letting my Object Desktop subscription expire after many long years as a customer, but if you're as determined as you sound, I think I'll stick around.
Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Brad,
Your hitting the nail right on the head. Every year of my company's 25 years of progress I've had to do the very thing your doing here. Sit down critique our last year while combining successes and failures of the previous years. It's hard to do this while maintaining a visionary type perspective. It's a pretty delicate balance.
I think your right on track and I applaude you for your candid approach here. It's alot to accomplish in a year, but, I think it's the right direction that would produce a very positive outcome for everyone. Thanks alot for sharing your thoughts and opinions with us.

Radialfx
Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
That was a very thorough analysis of Stardock that focused mainly on the problems. Stardock certainly has a lot of things on the plus side, but to continue to grow it is important to identify the weak points. Your business plan also outlines specific actions that you intend to take to correct the problems, which are excellent.

I fall into the category of "used to be a very active skinner". I've got about 88 items with a total of 207,000 downloads total. I have not created anything new for six months now. It stopped being fun. Creating a windowblinds skin, bootskin, and a couple of other things would easily take 40 hours and a really extensive set could go over 100 hours. That is a lot of time to spend and just give it away, but I didn't mind at first. I was persistent enough to work through the lack of documentation to do the best I could with my own knowledge. Where it became disheartening was after spending all that time, I'd get a fair initial rating of 6 to 8 and a few "old timers" whose votes count more than other people would come along and vote the rating down to a 4 to 6. I think it adds to the "elitism" when some people's votes count more than others. Especially if all they do is lower people's ratings.

I don't think that Stardock should lower its approval standards, but it needs to do something to encourage new skinners. When you first get something approved to be on Stardock you feel like you have really accomplished something. You want to show it off. I think the policy is that if you aren't a member of Stardock, you can't see anything rated under 7. The poor little newbie skinner had finally gotten something up, but can't e-mail his friends to see his or her accomplishment. You are controlling the non-members by the amount of kilobytes they download. Would it hurt to let them see some of the lower rated stuff if it encourages the new skinners. Maybe lower the threshold to 3 or 4 out of 10.

As mentioned the forums have become rather hostile. Some of the comments on people's work is rather hostile as well. Any negative feedback in the forums or on comments should be in the spirit of constructive criticism. Things like "It sucks", "Its amateurish", without pointing out some method of improvement helps no one, and just makes skinners feel bad.

Another pet peeve is that anytime someone says something negative about Stardock, they are usually slammed by the elite. In the same way that constructive criticism can help new skinners, it can help a company adjust problems on the fly with its end users.

I guess that ends my two cents.
NetBadger
Reply #4 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't create skins. I don't have the time but this is not so much about that but what can be done to improve your company. When you say that you almost missed Microsoft's invitation to go to CES, that tells me a lot. Why? You say that you found out about it through other channels. This is not the way to run a business. It's hit or miss. If I were you I'd fix that sort of thing. What I'm talking about is the basic foundation of a business. You need people who take care of the mundane aspect of things. That is number one. Stardock needs to have a well organized staff of people who do nothing but office work. These people keep things organized. I don't know what your set up is but I do know that having a well run office/organization is essential to the success of any business.

I have noticed that comments, questions in the forums and in general are sometimes not the most intelligent. I usually don't post anything in this case. There is a fine line between kindness and being mean. I think to myself "Why can't these people figure it out like I did?". Is it because I have nothing better to do than sit in front of this computer tweaking things endlessly or is it because what Stardock has done here is so damn cool that I've fallen in love with it? Some of this is probably generational in nature. My profile says I'm 44 but I'm really 54 so some of the newbies don't always sit well with me not so much because of what they ask but how they ask. I suppose that if there were better tutorials up front there wouldn't be some of these problems. These "inane" questions wouldn't be asked. "I downloaded a theme but it didn't work. What do I do now?", then someone has the tell this person that they need to download Windowblinds.

Some folks are pure users and some folks are creators. I'd suggest that these lines should be clearly drawn. I know where I stand, I am 98% a user and I don't mind that. I buy the software and play with what others have created. It seems like the line between "The Community" and "The Business" gets blurred here. It's not easy to have it both ways. There are obviously cliques here and there are times when one feels that they are on the outside. It boils down to how you want to run this place. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. It's a matter of change. How do you keep the spirit of the original Stardock in 2006? I don't think you can. I think you are going to have to make some trade offs and that may not please everybody.
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well I'm one of those who have been moving away from stardock and it's products. I bought desktopX a couple of years ago with a keen interest in getting to skinning. I never really did give it a good go, the effort always seemed too much for the time I had. So this year I didn't bother renewing but have been checking out what's going on every now and again.
Make it easier, or at least clearer, and I'd love to give another go. I'm sure that if you can get moving on half of what you covered you'll generate plenty of new interest.
An early comment suggested a newbie area, bring it on it's exactly what I need!
Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i hope im not a nerd, i catch myself reading stuff like this, and actually reading the entire articles.

Its interesting that with success comes many challenges that if not CHECKED create slippage were eventually (and rightly so) another will provide for that which is lacking. Such as internet explorer and Firefox stepping up. (millions of examples)

Im a new skinner to a small degree, i love object dock, i noticed many of NetBagers complaints rather quickly, as to the objectdock forms, as of late they've seemed to turn a little more friendly, just.

Another item of concern to me, a new skinner (in the trenches), is how some things are either taboo, or off limits, my initial thought is that if you create a set of HQ (original) icons, or backgrounds or what ever, and upload them to be shared and used freely, your going to be unpopular to those who are selling what your giving away. A couple examples of this are desktop sets, folder sets, Wallpapers with calendar days. Perhaps its normal behavior for the big guy wanting to keep the small guy down. Many small guys don't make it through, unfortunately thats part of life.


And hey, I don't want to step on anyones toes as a new skinner, (and just more recently thought to keep it original, and when you do it turns out better and you feel better) But I cant help to think that those selling stuff other people are creating and sharing for free need to find new jobs, move over, or create something more attractive. Its interesting that the more fair things are the more success and growth results. This is were it becomes difficult for the main supplier, how to keep your job but encourage growth. I hope this post is not to vague.

As for me a new baby skinner perhaps the thing that concerns me most is NOT so much that someone out there doesn't want to see my competitive work, as it will hurt there ratings or effect there sales, but only that i wish i knew which items were off limits so to speak, so i don't waist my time creating something, uploading it and never see it shared!

ok, carry on


Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Admittedly, I'm a pure user; I lack the artistic (and coding) skill to create a GUI I would want to use. But I love the possibilities, so I renew my Object Desktop every year, keep the program suite updated along with any skins I want to use, and I renew my WinCustomize subscription. I do it because I love what this company, as well as all the incredibly talented people in this community, create.

With that said, I didn't really want to go along with Brad's criticism of Stardock. But on all counts, he's right. I would love to at least become technically proficient in skinning, as it might kick-start me aesthetically into producing something I (and others) would want to use. I'd love to see a "newbie area" be created. I'd spend some time there, believe it.
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I am no longer even a user of any of Stardock's programs - I used them many years ago (freeware versions) with the aim of trying to skin myself. The UIS language is not particularly difficult as long as there is a glossary of terms (If you can use linux or litestep then editing text files is not difficult!) The problem I hit upon is that I am just not artistic enough to create anything that looks nice - it is hard enough to draw on paper what would be nice but designing an icon on screen with a mouse or trackpad using PSP or photoshop is a nightmare.

More people would learn to skin if some of the artistic skills could be built in to a skinning program. I keep going back every year or so and am always so disappointed in what I produce that I abandon the attempt quite quickly.

As far as the day to day business side - I find it hard to believe that you don't have a secretary to look after your inbox and schedule. It is probably time to have a dedicated customer support service for skinners. It might also be good to get mormegil to produce another set of articles on how to produce other artistic effects using some basic software.
Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Goodness me, i think you are being a bit hard on yourselves...

Im not in business or anything like that but i can understand how it makes sense to look back on your previous year for improvements to be made in the next as someone mentioned above.

However i thought that you were being a bit hard on yourselves in terms of the support users get. OK you feel that they dont get it directly from you guys sometimes, but just look at the forums, you have god knows how many users with a wealth of information and ideas relating to products and support for products and they share that willingly on the boards, and by all accounts that was the big buzz in the past 2 years, the internet creating communities of millions of people that help eachother out and have fun together. Granted the support might not have been in the structured way that you would like to offer but i feel its there, or at least a good deal of it is. You guys have created an almost revolution in skinning here, and it has improved greatly since i joined about 5 years ago. I have always found answers to what support questions i have needed without much hassle, and thats great, for me thats what its all about. I love the community environment here, and the internet is amazing in how it can bring people together at the touch of a button or the click of a mouse etc...

So dont be crying into your turkey about the lack of support you give people. You are doing a good job and im sure lots of people agree.

Have a lovely Xmas and as for the New Year, i can wait and you cant wait, so bring it on!

Kind wishes from Ireland.

Ronan Halpenny
Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Iam a newbie i still dont know how to use skinstudio or that stuff i tried but gaveup iwould like to know how tomake skine like some that are at wincustom and share with them but as you said you to help people to do this and show theme what to do fist and where to start from
Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top
A well thought out analysis Brad and a most useful exercise for any organization that desires to strive for excellence. I believe you are quite right with your concerns for the Forums and skinner support issues. Imagine the hue and cry if anyone else had written the same critique.
Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top

 

Stardock needs to have a well organized staff of people who do nothing but office work.

I find it hard to believe that you don't have a secretary to look after your inbox and schedule

Oh, we have office support.  In fact, I am in charge of it.  Our office runs like a well oiled machine.  However, how Brad didn't see the invitation to CES was because it wasn't sent to the "office", it was sent via email.  He gets so many email, that he doesn't even see many of them.  Email is one of the things that is hard to "pass off" on to somebody else.  Having an Admin Assistant monitor your email feels like an invasion of privacy (at least that's how I would feel) since you never know what your email contains.

No, what we have here are growing pains.  We started out a very small company.  We've continued to grow and add more products and services.  But, over time, the people who were active in the community (myself included) have moved more and more into management rolls and have spent so much time keeping employees managed and day to day activities done that we have run out of time to spend being active in the community.

When that started to happen, the community started to take on a life of its own.  "Bullies" have appeared and have gone unchecked.  Skinners have run into problems, but nobody has seen it.  The list goes on and on.

But, on the plus side, we are quite aware of where we failed and what we need to do.  And, we have every intention of fixing it.  However, fixing it is not completely in our control.  We need to hire people to do some of the work that is lacking and we need to have dedicated staff for certain areas.  Since our current staff is already overburdened with the crazy stuff we're already doing (there is a lot in the pipeline for next year and with Vista) we absolutely have to have more staff members to be able to support everything.

In the end, we don't want to become some "big" company that is disconnected from the community.  Believe me, I rather spend all day chatting with people on irc and the forums than to deal with building issues or contract negotiations, but the reality is that I can't.  But, that doesn't mean that *somebody* at Stardock shouldn't be here all the time and be able to report the general status of the community and what needs to be fixed or improved.

This post by Brad may seem harsh, but it's not.  If we were a non-caring company, we wouldn't even be bothered by what is going on as long as we made money.  But, we do care.  I've been at Stardock for over 11 1/2 years.  I saw the birth of WC and how it got to where it is today.  And I really care what happens with it next. 

For skinning to continue to be innovative, we need to keep the artists that we have and attract new artists (and DX coders).  To do that, Stardock needs to be active in the community and available to help with issues.

So dont be crying into your turkey about the lack of support you give people. You are doing a good job and im sure lots of people agree.

I don't eat turkey, but is crying into my beer acceptable?

Reply #13 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Brad: I would agree with kenwas, this was definitely a well thought out exercise, one that many leaders of an organization need to do. Being a CEO of a company is sometimes difficult, especially when it comes to finding faults with one's "baby"

I also have to agree with Chasbo, if you don't have someone looking after your email, calendar, etc...you need to, no doubt about it. Many of my colleagues were reluctant to release that part of their life (your's truly was one of them) - however I have found that I still have control over that part, and anytime I want to I can respond to an email that I want, but it's nice knowing that if I don't have time, there is someone out there who's number one responsibility is looking out for me.

I wish you luck with your strategy, it's definitely a tall order, but am I sure that if you put your mind to it, and you can get the support you need from your staff you will be able to make a go of it.

Hope you have a wonderful holiday!

Regards,
Jim
Reply #14 from WinCustomize Forums Top
To say it in a whole sentence ;

We skinners and of course Stardock as well, Should try more and be more there for the people in the community. Those that are members and those that want to become members too. It is a hard thing to do to always be there when people need you most. But in my past experience's here I've seen Stardock getting better and better! It's great to see that you [Brad] writing such a great article to concern the down falls and as I would see it the bounds of Stardock with the community.Myself " I appreciate that greatly!" Also the plans are fantastic for the future too. That and those plans of the new departments there at Stardock too!

Now that was kind of a very long sentence - but in short "I like this place and even if it was floundering or whatever - I'd stick around!!"
Thanks for the write up Brad and Stardock as a whole is going places!

SGT
Reply #15 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Brad...you have redefined the term 'critical opinion'.

To me it's 50% accurate and 50% utter bullshit.

Without whatever [you claim -not] has been the Stardock input into skinning there'd be no actual 'skinning' of Windows as we know it.  Essentially any alternative is stagnant and/or dead in the water...Stardock [via WB in particular] is "where it's at".

The only downside [failing] on Stardock's side in the past months has been the pre-occupation with the GalCiv2 efforts [something which in itself commercially stabilizes Wincustomize, anyway].

Myself, and I'm certain others too would dearly want to see more specific and direct input from yours truly, rather than a 'hired hand' here on Wincustomize.

In regards to perceptions of 'elitism' I think that's on the wane.  I see far fewer instances of my 'needing' to step on toes to remind people to respect their peers/fellow Users...than what prevailed some years ago...and I don't think all of that is down to my [or anyone's] mellowing of attitude/s.

Wincustomize.com is still a good "place to be", where old and new are treated alike...[at least by the powers that be]...and 'maybe' where one or two public members might yet like to rethink their attitudes.

In mechanical terms, skinning has gotten more difficult whilst RTFMs have been somewhere less than useless...and yes, that needs work, as does extra perks/assistance/whatever for the skinners themselves.

My thinking has always been that the skinners come first...all else is secondary.  Treat the creators of the content well and all else will follow.

Saying Stardock has somehow failed the skinners is somewhere between simplistic and just plain wrong.  Without Wincustomize where now exactly would Windows skinning be?  Relegated to a private site [or two] without the capacity to handle the interest...aka...as dead as the next failed server.

For me there has been 3 people on the planet who have 'made' skinning what it is. [you'll all disagree, but that's fine...I'll just ignore it]...

Flyte....hacked Winamp and made it skinnable....and it was such a common proggy that so many people first saw skins with it.

LoneRunnr...created an alternate shell for Win95 [Litestep]...that grew beyond him.

and

a guy called Frogboy ...who actually commercialized skinning [WB]...made a business out of it that guaranteed its longevity, much to the horror of the 'me-generation' [prior to that it was all very much backyarders].

Bugger-all people probably realize how much skinning has to thank for Brad's involvement...and not just that 'funny stuff' that was pre Windows [ ].

Sure, there's room for community improvement, be it social interaction or technical assistance...but that'll come, provided everyone is on the same page.

When it all comes down to the crunch...I've been 'fairly regularly' on this site since day one...and the gang we have here now is better than what we had in its inception.  Yes, the faces have changed, but the people are still enthusiastic irrespective of the reality that it isn't all as 'new' now as it was then... 

I'm a realist....and I see the true value of the shitloads of money that Stardock has invested in 'our' craft.  Prior to this skinning was propeller-hat territory...for freaks and geeks.

Stardock legitimized the industry.....and entities like Pixtudio and The Skins Factory proved its viability.

If anything, all that the skinning 'newbie' needs is an eddycayshun in skinning's history....

Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think you hit on areas needing improvement but not necessarily failures.

I do however agree that "Official" documentation by Stardock has been a failure.
I can't find anything with regards to Object Bar2. It's not extremely complicated, but an explanation of line items and directory structure would be helpful.
There are quite a few tutorials available that were done by individuals which cover DX and Windowblinds fairly well.

As to support of the skinners.....I rarely see a skinning question go unanswered on the forums. The answers don't necessarily come from Stardock but you enable that by hosting the site. There are also sites like Skinartistry which provide that "unofficial" Skinner support you mention.

The forums.......there comes a time when you've seen a thousand posts with the same "what program do I need to use these files" question and it's possible that some answers come back with tone that may seem harsh or elitist. My suggestion would be to add to the following.........
WindowBlinds
WindowBlinds changes the look and feel of your Windows Desktop by applying visual styles to your entire Windows environment. When a visual style is applied, they change nearly every elements of the Windows GUI such as title bars, push buttons, the Start bar, and more. "YOU WILL NEED TO DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL THE WINDOWBLINDS PROGRAM IN ORDER TO UTILIZE THESE FILES"
same for DX, Logons, etc. etc.
What has happened is the "Commmunity Forum" is MUCH MUCH more about user support than it is about hanging out. It's probably just a result of the LARGE numbers that come here but I think a little more basic documentation via the gallery pages could result in cutting down on support requests which may seem to some to be onerous.

Leadership.............people adopt leaders because they show the ability. Leadership is not something you can force on us.......it's something we can force on you.
Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top
in a certain point of the year (around July i think..) the forum was getting realy hard to use, and i'm not talking about it´s functionality, no! i'm talking about the moderation and the realy rough comments on each article written by new members of this site...

...some examples are:

Talking about moderation: when some of us post a thread, criticizing something like...., coff*rateingsystemcoff*, our thread were deleted or became a realy painful article with many comments saying; "...you can say whatever you want or give your oppinion, but this wont change at all".

And talking about the useless or rough comments, some of well known members of this site were getting realy unpolite with the new members when this ones (the new members....), were giving some ideas for the site or something related to this site. A comment that i remember very well was written on one of my articles time ago (when i suggest an idea a bit crazy that could help to prevent rips), the comment was this: "...this most be the worst or the most stupid idea i have ever heard " (damn.., i got so pissed that time... )...
Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hm, how about a wiki-system for Object Desktop documentation ? Wouldn't that be an option ?

Anyway, Brad You have my deepest respect for this article !
Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The following comments to the content of your article are purely my own perspective:

1 - Stardock does have serious issues with documentation if they want users to understand the programs.

2 - The skinning programs have become more complex, which in turn creates more time consumption for the average user simply trying to use the program. This is magnified if one tries to actually create what would be considered a high quality skin or theme.

2 - For the past 6 - 9 months, it appears that Stardock has moved a large part of their focus to the gaming industry (not a bad move, but one that places question marks for the skinning focus).

3 - The web site which most directly supports Stardock (that being WinCustomize), has been in a state of perpetual development and has lost many of the members that were consistently present 2 years ago.

For some measure of qualification, I work as an assistant manager for a Quality Control/Assurance department creating standards and assembly manuals. When a product does not have sufficient documentation - whether this is due to lack of human resources, or from continual product changes that require constant updates or re-writes - the end result is an incomplete product.

One problem (?) with the computer environment is that a user wants to use a computer to (a) enhance one's life, (b) make one's life easier, or (c) both 'a' and 'b'. The contradiction is that this usually requires a significant investment of time to understand both the computer's basic operating system and the programs one might use. While some measure of time investment might be acceptable, it can easily evolve into a question of whether or not it is worth the time. Clear and concise documentation combined with easy to follow tutorials would go a long way towards helping the end user who is in essence, willing to 'pay the bill' for a company that can provide a product that does indeed enhance and/or ease one's life.

With the lack of official support for customers, any company will eventually lose.

Reply #20 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Another problem is the lack of INTERNATIONAL and multi-language support, I think. There are also skinners in other countries that do really well, but eventually don't understand english enough to get the documentation. Because of this over here the userbase for other software or that hack is bigger. And I think the concept of letting users translate the language files failed, too. Some german files for example are really terrible. Others simply don't exist as nobody cares or has time to translate them.
Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If anything, all that the skinning 'newbie' needs is an eddycayshun in skinning's history....


Wrong Jafo, wrong. History is history. Important to know yes, but certainly not all that the next generation of skinners need to hear. I get that sense that many view the "golden age " of skinning as something that has passed and there is nothing that is a bigger turn off than to hear the "When I was a boy, we.......". Sort of like my father turning off the Stones and telling me to listen to the "real" music of his generation or explaining that he had to walk 3 miles to school when I complained of taking the bus. Look around you, it seems to me that the vast majority of people that actively skin are those that for one reason or another actually have the time to do all the work required to make a good skin these days as the programs get more and more involved. Without the good tools to learn many will simply not get involved if it requires sorting it out on one's own and reinventing the wheel to make a skin. Time is of premium these days. Successful tools are ones that can be readily mastered and used. How much of what we always refer to as "real life" are you willing to forego to change the GUI on your machine? Can't rank very high in most people's lives.
Reply #22 from WinCustomize Forums Top
For the most part I have to say I was glad to come across Stardock & WinCustomize some 3 years ago. They have both provided some amazing things for users to use to create new desktop environments.

Having said that...I have to agree that the documentation of how to create things in many of the software apps is seriously lacking. I would love to create a WindowBlind skin but I don't have clue one on where to even start. Is there a certain way to begin?...What do you start skinning first?...Are there things you can and can't do?...How do you make something transparent?...Whats with the "Magic Pink?"...Why do you use magic pink in some cases but not in others? So a tutorial for someone that has never made a skin or even wrote code would be very helpful and might even create new skinners in the process. When I first came here I bought ObjectDesktop right off the bat when I saw the potential it provided, but was soon discouraged as far as WindowBlinds go when I couldn't find anything that would tell me how to create all these beautiful skins I was seeing. Once in a while I try giving it a shot...but I'm basically shooting in the dark here. And yes, there are people here that will answer questions, but hard copy documentation is needed by those that actually created Skinstudio or someone that can clearly explain on a newbie level of how to create a skin start to finish.

My personal pet peeve has had to do with how the libraries are handled. I started creating docks after buying ObjectDock and seeing the ObjectDock library was seriously lacking in matching docks for existing skins, and to contribute in supporting and promoting the software and the site. This app at least had basic documentation for it...not much in explanation...but at least it was enough to get me started. Honestly though...I learned far more by just opening an existing dock and changing the tags to see what they did and going from there than by reading "SkinningTheDock." Unfortunately though, I can't really say my contribution (271 sets of docks & 253,520 downloads to date) have been acknowledged or supported very much except by the end users who download what I create. And theres no telling how many people have bought ObjectDock because of what they saw...who knows.

Now, I really do hate to rehash this, because I've since considered this to be a dead horse and ignored subject anymore, but one example dare I say, has been in regards to the ObjectDock library. It just hasn't received the same exclusiveness as other apps. Such as the WindowBlinds library having skins for just WindowBlinds...Iconpackager having just Icon packages...CursorXP having just Cursors. But in the case of ObjectDock the docks get buried under icon/pngs. One argument has been that icons/pngs are used ObjectDock with...true...and they are also used with other apps. But icons/pngs (and I should say here I consider both icons and pngs to be the same thing since they can easily be converted within a second either way...so I don't really see the difference between them other than them being called .ico or .png, although there a some who disagree) already have a library of they're own, yet the ObjectDock library is flooded with them and end up burying the docks created for that software. And this also has given the creators of these icon/pngs not just one library but several libraries in which to upload to showcase what they created...which in the end buries the docks making people have to dig pretty far to find stuff I and others created for Object"Dock" but yet you don't see one dock in any of those libraries. End of rant.

As far as the community....other than the small group who choose to ridicule rather than help people in the forums...I'd have to say the community is overall pretty helpful and has been looking after itself. Some time ago I offered to help in any way I could, and this was acknowledged and then forgotten for whatever reason. And when you ignore people that offer to help...contribute to the site to support the software & community...you can't very well expect them to continue doing so for to long. Although I thoroughly enjoy the software and creating docks for ObjectDock, I can't really say I feel like part of the community that much anymore and have begun to somewhat lose interest in continuing to create docks except for myself, unless someone specifically requests some. But life goes on.
Reply #23 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I've been buying Stardock products since WB 1.x and have loved the ability to "skin" my desktop. I am not a graphical guy so have not and do not create skins. I've tried my hand in it and even uploaded a WB Skin once. It was exciting to be able to do it but in the end, it only got a few downloads and I was surprised at that. Today, to even try that seems pretty daunting with the new products. There's just soooo much to them. I think that tutorials are essential to getting new users on board. I bet there are hundreds if not thousands of folks itching to get skinning but something for them is not "clicking" because there isn't enough documentation. I agree, documentation has always been lacking with Stardock products.

I think it a good idea that Stardock give some serious thought to making some cool gadgets, skins, etc. for each of their products. At the very least it would get the communities juices flowing to see what the potential of the product(s) is/are. I'm soooooo tired of seeing another weather gadget with different graphics. Ya, the graphics are cool, no doubt, but in the end, I have thousands of weather gadgets to choose from. I'd like to see some creative gadgets that really do something for me besides tell me the weather. I know, some of you are about now because I'm not giving suggestions and seem to be flaming weather gadgets. I'm not flaming, just trying to make the point that if Stardock shows us things beyond weather gadgets, people will see what the product can do and creativity beyond the norm (today) could happen.

It's good to know that you guys are seeing areas of improvement. I wouldn't say your lacking, I'd say that you just need improvement. I have, on several occasions, this year included, questioned my purchases of OD and WinCustomize subscription but, I've stuck it out with the company because, quite frankly, the tools are just way cool and the skinners are just excellent and very talented. Half the reason I stay with Stardock is because of those people who don't get paid but, spend countless hours creating new skins or icons or cursors for me to enjoy.

In the end, don't be too hard on yourself, think "Six Sigma" and keep the juices churning.

P.S. The "Six Sigma" was just a joke but just happens to apply
Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top

1.  We all need to learn from history or we're doomed to failure.  We should not be brow beat with it.

2.  The skinners of the past used to try to figure the problems out themselves before asking for help.  Now it seems that its easier to ask.  Granted WB's has got harder to use and the documentation hasn't improved, but still one should try first before asking.  I personally know skinners that spent hours, days on a problem before asking.  In the past, the developers and a lot of the big named skinners hung on the chat and asked  and answered questions.  That seems to have dwindled.  I think the older skinners have gotton tired of answering the same old questions and have stopped in the hopes that the people will try and figure it out for themselves.  Its not that hard to know who doesn't try.  Oh well, I don't skin and never will.  I can't even use a paint program and I admire those that do and can skin.  My hat's off to them.

Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Hi ... I've been using products related with the company since OS/2(Object Desktop - mid 1990's). And using various skins in the Windoze environment since WB2, there was a significant improvement in your "family of products" - in the main. ObjectDock Plus, to be honest is a mess, and in it's current form will not drag me away from ObjectDock 1.3.

I agree with your summary with regard to documentation ....... nightmare, if you want to reconfigure many of the default programmes/applications that are bolted onto many of the "Themes". Many of these "Themes" also are extremely unstable, often locking up the system despite the supporting hardware(Processor, Graphics, Memory, HDDs).

However, despite any critisisms, the stability is significantly better than that of competitors such as "Lighttek". If you think you applications are at times difficult to work with, or modify, try theirs .............. GGGRRRRRRRRR!!!

One thing you should take away as good news. Without your "skinning community" and Apple Corp., for Microsoft to copy. Microsoft would not have the limited feature improvements they have been able to keep in Vista, and the users of the Windoze OS would still be running an interface that has changed little since Win95.

Since moving to Apple's OS X 30 months ago, I have never looked back. And my use of Windoze is limited to my employers choice of platform, so will continue to be using your products in that arena, despite all gripes about documentation, and stability. The aesthetics you provide more than compensate for it.

Jos