KFC Kickin For Christ KFC Kickin For Christ

Fallible Men Produce Infallible Bible?

Fallible Men Produce Infallible Bible?

Is It Possible or Impossible?

One of the most frequent arguments leveled against the infallibility of the Bible is based upon the fact that the Bible was written by human authors. Human beings are fallible. Since the Bible was written by these fallible human beings, it necessarily follows that the Bible is fallible. Or so the argument goes. As Roman Catholic theologian Bruce Vawter writes, "A human literature containing no error would indeed be a contradiction in terms, since nothing is more human than to err."

Although we often hear this accusation, it just is not correct. We grant that human beings do make mistakes, and that they make them often. But they do not necessarily make mistakes in all cases, and they do not necessarily have to make mistakes.

For example, several years ago one of the authors was teaching a class oon the reliability of the Bible. For it, he had typed up a one page outline of the course. The finished product was inerrant; it had no typographical errors, no mistakes in copying from the hand-written original. Although the author was human and was prone to make mistakes, he was in fact infallible in this instance.

The point is this: It is not impossible for a human being to perform a mistake free act. It is not impossible for fallible man to correctly record both sayings and events. Thus to rule out the possibility of an inerrant Bible by appealing to the fallibility of men does not hold up.

John Warwick Montgomery, lawyer/theologian, illustrates this truth:


The directions for operating my washing machine for example are literally infallible; if I do just what they say, the machine will respond. Euclid's Geometry is a book of perfect internal consistency; grant the axioms and the proofs follow inexorably. From such examples (and they readily be multiplied) we must conclude that human beings, though they often err, need not err in all particular instances.



To be sure, the production over centuries of sixty-six inerrant and mutually consistent books by different authors is a tall order-and we cheerfully appeal to God's Spirit to achieve it-but the point remains that there is nothing metaphysically inhuman or against human nature in such a possibility. If there were, have we considered the implications for Christology? The incarnate Christ, as a real man, would also have had to err; and we have already seen that error in His teachings would totally negate the revelational value of the incarnation, leaving man as much in the dark as to the meaning of life and salvation as if no incarnation had occurred at all (God's Inerrant Word, pg33
)

We also believe that there is sufficient evidence that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. The Scriptures themselves testify, "All Scripture is God-breathed." If they contain error, then one must call it God-inspired error. This is totally incompatible with the nature of God as revealed in the Bible. For example, Titus 1:2 says God cannot lie. John 17:17 says "Thy word is truth."

Examples could be multiplied. The testimony of Scripture is clear. God used fallible men to receive and record His infallible Word so that it would reach us, correct and without error. Sounds difficult? With our God it's not. As he said, "Behold I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?"

Josh McDowell
"Reasons Skeptics Should Consider Christianity"
18,426 views 131 replies
Reply #51 Top
SConn1----telling me there are 2 Magisteriums doesn't disprove what I say. Christ commanded to St. Peter and the apostles to proclaim His Gospel until the end of time. Christ also promised His Spirit who guides us "to all truth". That mandate and promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from Christ's teaching. This inability of the Church to stray, as a whole, into error regarding basic matters of CHrist's teaching in faith (doctrine, dogma) and morals is called infallibility. The teaching office (Magisterium) He gave them has by His will been handed on to St. Peter and the apostles successors, the pope and the bishops.

The pope and the bishops in union with him responsbility is to preserve and nourish the Church (that is, us-- the people). The teaching office is exercised in 2 ways, through the ordinary Magisterium and through the extraordinary Magisterium. The infallibility which the whole Church has belongs to the Pope. The Holy Spirit guarantees that when the Pope declares he is teaching infallibly (ex cathedra--"from the Chair") as Christ's representative and visible head of the Church on matters of faith and moral, he cannot lead the Church into error. This is a gift of the HOly SPirit promised by Jesus. "Whoever hears you, hears me." Certain conditions must be present when an infallible pronouncment is made.


Both are infallible when teaching matters of doctrine and morals. In this the Magisterium (teaching office) has never failed and never can. It cannot, because if the CHurch did fail and teach error in matters of faith and morals then that means Christ did not keep His promise to guide the Church to truth until the end of time.



Infallibility does not extend to individual bishops when they teach in a pastoral sense or preach the Gospel or giving catechatical instruction. But when they come together from all around the world in unity along with the Pope, and teach authentic matters in faith and morals, and they concur a single viewpoint, then that if infallible teaching and all Catholics must hold that conclusively. This is known as the infallibility of the CHurch.

Infallibility does not mean that the Pope and the bishops do not sin or that they know everything....and for certain they are not making new revelation. When the Pope or bishops speak as private theologians, expressing their views, their opinions could be mistaken.

Now, to put this all in context with this present discussion the infallibility which our Lord Jesus wished to endow His Church in defining doctrine pertaining to faith and morals, is co-extensive with written Revelation, which must be guarded and courageously propounded. Of that KFC does a fabulous job.

So, the Magisterium is infallible in her official teaching on faith and morals. Always has been and always will be. But she does not claim to be infallible in making people live up to those teachings. Her infallibility does not deprive us of our free will. You would admit, would you not, that God is infallible, yet you would not account for people who violate the commandments by denying God's infallibility. You would account for it by the evil dispositions of the people concerned. ANd as the infallibility of God does not take away free will from men, neither does the infallibility of the CC take it away from her adherants, we Catholics.

All people are the people of God and how they choose to know, love and serve Him is a matter of choice and free will. An important fact about Catholics is we have a sense of being a people united in a special sense by belonging in a world-wide
family all seeking the One that is to come. There may be lapsed Catholics, and non-practicing Catholics, and fallen away Catholics, but once baptized a Catholic, you are always Catholic. You are free to leave the Church and you are free to come back home and when you do, you will be welcomed.

The Church has its imperfections becasue the people who make up the CHurch, the Mystical Body of Christ, are human, and weak and err. God in His Infinite Mercy and forgiveness is always there present in the Tabernacle and in the Holy Eucharist. There is nothing more comforting in this life for me than to know this.....this is part of the strength of being a Catholic.






Reply #52 Top
Of that KFC does a fabulous job.


Hey thanks Lulabelle....had to put that in cuz I'm not used to getting any type of high mark on this subject here on JU.....

And didn't you mention you were a Catholic? Well I hope LW is reading this. Cuz I've been branded a Catholic Bigot by her and by the looks of Baker's last comment he's bought into that as well.

As you probably know LB I'm an Evangelical that doesn't recognize the authority of the CC but agree with pretty much most of what you wrote above on the Holy Scriptures. I can see you and I have much in common outside the CC.

Reply By: Sean Conners, a.k.a. SConn1Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006i looked at this article and the responses.if i understand the debate right , kfc contends that the word of God is infallable in the 'orig texts" is that right?



Yes, you would be correct.

if so, i need to point out that the "orig" texts" are not , in many cases, origional at all. many of them are interpretations and word of mouth ones at that of stories passed down. so therefore, are subject to the same infallabilities as any modern day translations are.


The orig texts are not "original" as you assert but they are far from interpretations either. They are "original" copies tho. We have about 5,000 "original" copies floating around right now. If you have one original and make 5,000 copies from that original and can compare them all together years later, how accurate would they be? Even if there was a scribal error here and there (and there were) they could take all the copies for comparison and straighten it out...which they have done.

Our modern translations are coming from those original copies and the scoop is....they are very reliable. See the real truth is that if something is repeated often enough....people start believing it. Hitler liked to say that.....and he knew it worked.

for example, when you look outside the biblical texts, you find the "gospels" of mary magdeline, et al...and by many historical accounts, and by accounts contended in other books, not deemed "worthy" by the priest who designed the bible,


this is not true. No priest made a decision or designed the bible. The Jews took meticulous care of the OT scriptures and the early church copied and recopied Paul's letters which made up for most of the NT. These were gathered together and put thru rigorous testing before they could be be deemed worthy by the early church. There were many criteria for the NT inclusion into the cannon. One was that a gospel or letter had to be somehow connected to one of the 11 disciples. Another was that it could not contradict the OT scriptures or the eyewittness evidence the gospel presented. The early church, in the first century, already viewed the books we have today included in the cannon as inspired books. These books for the most part were overwhelmingly accepted and agreed upon for inclusion.

Now the "other gospels" you are talking about are full of contradictions, problems and were never accepted by the early church. Never. In fact if you read the book of Colosians you well see Paul warned against these other gospels. He told them not to listen to those clever sounding arguments as they would take them further away from Christ not closer as they had believed. Sound familiar? Think Satan, think Garden. Same old tricks. Get them away from the word of God and show them another version of it. Notice both conversations Satan had, one with Eve and the other with Jesus in the temptation. Both times, Satan misquotes scripture....gives it a bit of a twist.

The best lie has some truth in it. Satan is a clever devil.

According to the Gospel of Thomas (another lost gospel) Jesus told the disciples that women cannot enter heaven. The only way they are allowed in is if they grow a certain piece of the male anatomy. These books were not included for very good reason. They lie.
Reply #53 Top
Hey, lulabelle, ask KFC who the whore of babylon is.


YOU, are a troublemaker!!!

Reply #54 Top
Do you suppose that I am come to bring peace??!?!?!
Reply #55 Top
Do you suppose that I am come to bring peace??!?!?!


well it's not the sword!!!




Reply #56 Top
Whoa, Bakerstreet, you are an instigator! I don't want to get into what SConn1 says is a religious p------ contest! Concerning the Bible, we agree on many points including innerrancy and translations. Luther's idea of private interpretation is a completely different matter. I don't mean to rain on KFC's parade. I just wanted to set the CChurch and the Holy Bible in their proper order---Christ- founds Church--Church produces----Bible. Thank you Catholic Church for the Bible that has been debated so vigorously. KFC is a Bible, Yes; Church, No person. I get that.
Reply #57 Top

Charity didn't mean love even in 1611.  I think that KFC refuses to even acknowledge that difference says it all.

From Measure for Measure, written by Shakespeare, Act II, Scene IV. Written 16th century.

ANGELO  Nay, I'll not warrant that; for I can speak  65
  Against the thing I say. Answer to this:  
  I, now the voice of the recorded law,  
  Pronounce a sentence on your brother's life:  
  Might there not be a charity in sin  
  To save this brother's life?  70
ISABELLA  Please you to do't,  
  I'll take it as a peril to my soul,  
  It is no sin at all, but charity.

ISABELLA  O, pardon me, my lord; it oft falls out,  
  To have what we would have, we speak not what we mean:  
  I something do excuse the thing I hate,  
  For his advantage that I dearly love.

The meaning of charity and love are not the same. One might say charity is an act of love but they mean different things and did even before 1611.

Reply #58 Top
So, which is inerrant? Is it "Faith, Hope and Love" or "Faith, Hope, and Charity"? There are TONS of differences between the word love and the word charity, yet many translations differ. I would challenge folks to look at 1 Corinthians 13 :13

Douay Rheims: 1Cor.13:13 " And now there remain faith, hope and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity."

Corinthians 13 is St. Paul's hymn to charity. Love, the charity of which he is speaking is a love which is to be found in the new order of things established by Christ. Its origin, purpose and content are radically new. It is born of the love of God for men, a love so intense He sacrificed His only begotten Son.

Charity is the theological virtue by which we love God above all things for His own sake, and our neighbor as ourselves for the love of God. In St.John 13:34, Jesus makes charity the new commandment. By loving his own "to the end", He makes manifest the Father's love which He receives. By loving one another the disciples imitate the love of Jesus which they themselves receive. "This is my commandment that you love one another as I have loved you.
St. Paul gives an incomparable depiction of charity. 1Cor. 13:4-7. From that we can understand and put into practice understanding that charity upholds our human ability to love and raises our love to the supernatural perfection of divine love.

This is not to be confused with physical passionate expression, mere philantrophy, or zeal to help others in order to convince ourselves of our superiority. It means living in peace with our neighbor seeing in them the image of God.
Charity is the most excellent of gifts recognizing that love lies at the source of Christian virtue. It isn't a utopia or an empty dream, it is a goal though difficult that is ours to achieve.

For the most part, the NT Biblical meaning and use of the words "love" and "charity" are bound together. In the secular meaning, there are tons of different ways love and charity are used.

Shakespeare's Angelo is trying to convince Isabella that if she loves her brother, it would be an act of charity by sinning. That is, she could obtain her brother's release and save him from death if she would give herself to his lustful desires.

I think Shakespeare knew full well the Biblical meaning of the words charity and love.
Reply #59 Top
"This is not to be confused with physical passionate expression, mere philantrophy, or zeal to help others in order to convince ourselves of our superiority"


Then why use that word? If God had directed the creation of an inerrant book over the course of thousands of years, doesn't it seem strange that He wouldn't have directed clear language that anyone would understand without a concordance?

You guys come at this having been indoctrinated, with a host of materials at your disposal to help you understand. The Bible itself, though, wouldn't find itself in these circumstances in most of the world. What about the barely literate people around the world, reading translations of translations of translations?

Doesn't God want them to get the clear meaning? Brad shows an excellent example. I pointed out earlier that the Bible ITSELF has several places where the use the word charity and the word love in the same chapter.

If it were up to fallible men to make the decision where to use which, can the Bible be infallible? Do they know the mind of God that well? Does anyone? I doubt it.
Reply #60 Top
Doesn't God want them to get the clear meaning? Brad shows an excellent example. I pointed out earlier that the Bible ITSELF has several places where the use the word charity and the word love in the same chapter.


Baker, I've explained this. There are diff words for love. The love in 1 Cor 13 is AGAPE. It's diff than brotherly love which is phileo. Back in 1611 they used that word for Love and that's the word they chose in their translation and Shakesphere is an example of this. Notice how Shakesphere used the word Charity. He used it as a sacrificial love. The same way that Paul did. That's the Godly Love "Agape." To differentiate the two, Charity is used as the Godly love and human love or brotherly love is translated "love." Now we just have love and love used. We'd have to go to the Gk to figure out which is Agape and which is phileo like in John 21.

That's one of the reasons we have so many translations over the years, our way of talking has changed somewhat and it's been modernized. You don't say anything about the 1611 translators picking thee and thou over you and your either.

I've shown you dictionaries, Gk Lexicons, gone back to the Gk...not much more can be said.

There's other words in the KJV that we don't use now and I stumble over them occasionaly and have to look at a modern translation or a dictionary to figure it out. It's just the word that they chose for that particular translation. Like I said before, some pick eagle, some vulture. Some choose carcase, some body. It's only going back to the original Latin that I saw it was "corpus" and the Gk word for "dead body." So I determined that it was not just a body used in my translation but a dead body to be better translated in modern writings.

You always go back to the source...always to get clarification.

One thing is clear. Charity in 1 Cor 13:13 is in the Gk, as I've shown you, "Agape" We know that means love. But it's no ordinary love either. It's a perfect love. It's a Godly love.

The modern bibles have replaced Charity with Love. They also replaced the thees, thous among many other words. End of story.

If you're just trying to show me that the KJV may have erred using Charity instead of love in its translation to show it's weakness I can show you better examples than that. The KJV is not perfect, it has it's flaws but you're barking up the wrong tree with this example.





Reply #61 Top
If it were up to fallible men to make the decision where to use which, can the Bible be infallible? Do they know the mind of God that well? Does anyone? I doubt it.


Yes, but only in the ORIGINAL language in which it was written. We CAN know the "revealed" mind of God. But do we know the mind of God as a whole? NO. Our finite minds cannot comprehend Him this side of eternity.

That's why he's given us His written word; to give us a glimpse into his holiness, his love for mankind, his desires, his mercy, and his wishes for us. He's given us a way out. That way, we can NEVER say....."we didn't know."

Reply #62 Top
I'll just point out that KFC didn't even address the question that she quoted in reply #60. She just diverted yet again to semantics. Even the argument there ignores the reality of language and culture, and the fact that she can't say in any way what a person 2000 years ago really meant.
Reply #63 Top

On Sunday, I stay away from engaging in controversy. And so, all of those "get out the vote" emails will wait until tomorrow. I read this commmentary from St. Francis of Sales and thought immediately of this discussion. I hope this is helpful to show the interplay and inter-relationship between charity and love in the Biblical sense and then putting that into our daily use.


Francis of Sales (1567-1622), Bishop in Geneva and doctor of the Church
Treatise on the Love of God, 10:11

Loving God produces the love of our neighbour

As God created man to his own image and likeness (Gn 1:26), so did he appoint for man a love after the image and resemblance of the love which is due to his own divinity. He said: "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart; this is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Why do we love God? "The cause for which we love God," says S. Bernard, "is God Himself;" as though he had said: we love God because he is the most sovereign and infinite goodness. And why do we love ourselves in charity? Surely because we are the image and likeness of God; and whereas all men are endowed with the same dignity, we love them also as ourselves, that is, as being holy and living images of the divinity.

For it is on that account… that he makes no difficulty to call himself our father, and to call us his children; it is on that account that we are capable of being united to his divine essence by the fruition of his sovereign goodness and felicity; it is on that account that we receive his grace, that our spirits are associated to his most Holy Spirit, and made in a manner participant of his divine nature (2P 1:4)... And therefore the same charity which produces the acts of the love of God produces at the same time those of the love of our neighbour. And even as Jacob saw that one same ladder touched heaven and earth, serving the angels both for descending and ascending (Gn 28:12), so we know that one same charity extends itself to both the love of God and our neighbour.

Charity is a virtue from which both Christian love of God and love of neighbor flows. Another way to say it is---charity is two loves: of God and of neighbor. In the NT, these loves cannot be separated. "And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother." 1St.John 4:21. Anyone who separates these 2 loves is bound to fail. If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar." 1St. John 4:20. And the other way around, loving the brother but not paying attention to God in prayer and worship results in failure as well.

Human love is not merely emotional. (if it is --then, we could say this is one horizonal dimension and usually this doesn't last. When frustrations undo our best efforts to love others, love of God is necessary to keep going. We could say this the 2nd or vertical dimension. When love is elevated from the mere human level to the sacred, namely, Christian love, is called charity. The insight that guides charity is faith........but that is a whole other discussion.

Bakerstreet, I quoted these 2 verses from Douay Rheims. you might want to compare them with your Bible. Most likely they will vary to some degree. Do you get the same understanding from reading both translations?
Reply #64 Top
Bakerstreet says:
Then why use that word? If God had directed the creation of an inerrant book over the course of thousands of years, doesn't it seem strange that He wouldn't have directed clear language that anyone would understand without a concordance?

God did direct the creation of the Bible and He did see that it was translated into different languages through His instrument, the Holy Catholic Church. From the beginning, the magisterium of the CC has exercised its God -given authority to discern which books belong to the Bible and how they are correctly interpretated in the light of Sacred Tradition. As you and KFC know by now, Catholics view the Bible, the Church and Tradition as harmonious pieces of a whole. St. Timothy3:15 writes that the Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth".

Once the Church councils at Hippo (393) and Carthage 397 and 419, listed the 73 books as Sacred Scripture, (and confirmed by the council of Trent in the 16th century), she set about having St. Jerome translate them word for word into Latin which was the common language at the time in 405. Both KFC and I have talked about his qualifications. What is most important concerning the translation of the original Hebrew and Greek is that St. Jerome had far more texts of the original language versions to work with than scholars have today. He had many texts that simply no longer exist today. He was 1600 years closer to the original languages than modern scholars. He was fluent in Greek, Hebrew and Latin. This is very important regarding the meanings of the words used by the original biblical writers. His translation is called the Latin Vulgate and was widely endorsed by the universal Church and used up until 1610.
The Vulgate was proclaimed "authentic" by The Council of Trent in 1546.

In 1610, the original English version taken from the Latin Vulgate produced the Douay Rheims Bible. It is the version that has been used by Catholics since. In 1943, Pope Pius XII declared that the DR is "free from any error whatsoever in matters of faith and morals." That means it's an infallible version of the original.

So my advice to you is get yourself a Douay Rheims if you are concerned with errors in translation. It can't hurt.
Reply #65 Top

Human love is not merely emotional. (if it is --then, we could say this is one horizonal dimension and usually this doesn't last. When frustrations undo our best efforts to love others, love of God is necessary to keep going. We could say this the 2nd or vertical dimension. When love is elevated from the mere human level to the sacred, namely, Christian love, is called charity. The insight that guides charity is faith........but that is a whole other discussion


Lula, this is exactly what I've been trying to tell Baker. Charity, is love in Action. Christ is a great example of this when he died on the cross. That was charity. That was Agape. that was LOVE. The Good Samaritan. That also was Love in Action. That was Charity. That was Love.

Baker,

It's not that I didn't address it. I didn't give YOU the answer YOU want. I just chalk it up to another unwanted answer by YOU.

Reply #66 Top
No, you didn't address the fact that if God can somehow control the creation of a book for thousands of years, why suddenly is He out of control? Shouldn't one of these be the "right" one?

Explain if you can why God would leave his Word moldering and flaking away as 2000 year old manuscripts after fostering it as you describe for thousands of years previous. If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such? You admit that the modern translations aren't inerrant, did He just stop caring?
Reply #67 Top
P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front. One believes the Catholic church to be the great whore of Babylon, the other believes the Catholic Church to be the only true church. Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?
Reply #68 Top
No, you didn't address the fact that if God can somehow control the creation of a book for thousands of years, why suddenly is He out of control? Shouldn't one of these be the "right" one?


I don't think he's out of control, you do. That's the conclusion YOU have come up with. Not me. The Gk text has NOT changed one iota. Has it?

If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such?


He did. What don't you understand Baker? How many times have I said it's supernatural and inerrant in it's original texts that we still have today. Is it because it's not translated into another language inerrantly that bothers you so? Well be assured those translated texts are as close as you can to being inerrant if they are true to the original as best as they can be.

P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front.


I would say Lula and I are united in the ESSENTIALS. That's what's most important.

Essentials-Unity
Non Essentials-Liberty
All Things-Love

Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?


I don't think we feel that way. It's not about religion but about relationship. If we are united in Christ, it doesn't matter what denomination we belong to. If anything I may think she's the weaker sister for believing in the CC's role and she may say that I'm the weaker sister in that I don't believe it.

Reply #69 Top
P.S. I find it insane that KFC and Lulabelle would try and put on a united front. One believes the Catholic church to be the great whore of Babylon, the other believes the Catholic Church to be the only true church. Don't you guys feel a tad like hypocrites for nodding to one another like this, all the while believing that the other's soul is in dire jeopardy?


here we find common ground baker...it looks like we've been getting the religious zealot's version of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

lulabelle also challenges people to "disprove" her AS IF anything she has presented has been anything more than parroting of "faith based" doctrine, none of which can be proven in the 1st place. and most of which is just memorization of the b.s. that the church has been selectively teaching for centuries.
Reply #70 Top
"He did. What don't you understand Baker? How many times have I said it's supernatural and inerrant in it's original texts that we still have today. Is it because it's not translated into another language inerrantly that bothers you so? Well be assured those translated texts are as close as you can to being inerrant if they are true to the original as best as they can be."


You speak Koine Greek? You have the original texts in the original hand? Name them. Where are these manuscripts?

Again, you've dodged the question. If God made sure He got His inerrant word on paper, why did He stop making sure it stayed inerrant? Why do we get errant translations if God wished us to have the inerrant word? If a loose translation was good enough, why did the original even need to be inerrant?

Why was it left up to men to decide what was canon? Why didn't God make sure that the original texts, from the original authors, in their original hand were preserved? Why all this second hand work when he just could have dictated it to someone the way he did to Moses?

Why would an all-powerful God rely on men to write, translate, re-translate, choose, copy, bind, and sell-for-profit His Word? When was the first time, would you say, that the Hopi, or the Aleuts, or the Zulu hear the unadulterated, true Word? Were they hearing the truth from the Catholic Church?, or did these cultures have to wait hundreds of more years to hear the real truth?

What an awful thing you make of God.
Reply #71 Top
Bakerstreet and SConn1 ---Reading the whole of Proverbs 9 would do you good. Verse 10: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is prudence.

Christ's Peace,
Reply #72 Top
I've read proverbs many, many more times than once. MAYBE, just maybe as much as you, you think? I fear the Lord just fine, but I don't believe in the holiness of anything created by men. How do you feel about idolatry?

You guys are the one posing God as a monstrous thing, not me. I don't believe your description of things.
Reply #73 Top
If you are right, and he wanted a supernatural, inerrant document, why didn't He see to it that it came together as such?


He did, it's called the Book of Mormon.
Reply #75 Top
"Bakerstreet and SConn1 ---Reading the whole of Proverbs 9 would do you good. Verse 10: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is prudence.

Christ's Peace,"


It sickens me to the core when people like Lulabelle blaspheme God by claiming that questioning their religion is questioning God. I fear God, I just don't fear you or KFC.

As I've said elsewhere Creationists Promote Their Own Inerrancy. That's what churches, and churchy people do, they try and speak with the mouth of God, and make idolaters of their congregation.