and that there is more to scripture than what's found simply in the bible,

but isn't that what Satan said to Eve...."did God really say?" Wasn't he adding to the scriptures? Aren't we supposed to "test the spirits?" It has to be more than just a feeling, burning or not.

I'm sure you'd understand . . .

I think you're talking about the burning in the bosom?

I agree with the HS confirming and speaking to us, but the HS never contradicts his own word or adds to it. When you say Adam sinned deliberately isn't that adding something? He even blamed Eve trying to get out of his predicament with God. Actually we don't really know what his motivation was. All we know is he fell.

I think we're probably at a "let's agree to disagree here."   

I think we're probably at a "let's agree to disagree here."

We do usually get to that point, but at least we're nice to each other about it.

Cheers!

Cheers!

Cheers SC!!!  

what you're doing here is preaching to the peanut gallery

I so don't eat peanuts! I just like to see the blood flowing from all the little wounds . . .   

So the way I see it is that all the races were born of Noah and his families; those surviving the flood by chilling on the ark.

All races evolved from those 3 bloodlines via environmental conditions, or the genepool was intact at our creation and the ability for any race to be born of any couple was possible.

From the scriptures, all I get is that whatever people lived after the flood, all races came from Noahs 3 sons as well as himself.

Orion, apologies for finding your reply and responding so long after you wrote.

I read the conversation you referenced in the bible, but what I read did not conform to what you said. You specifically identified an order not represented in the text.
Here: “As Christ told Nicodemus, when asked how one could participate in the Kingdom of God, that one must be born in heaven and then born into flesh.”
Then I read:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be generated, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit…

Now, you obviously have some material to work with here. But you presented a reverse order of what Jesus says, and then you specify that it _must_ occur in your divergent order. Your “a man must first be born in heaven” angle can’t be upheld with these verses that I can see. So I’d like it if you could show me some where you could base your argument from or how you are approaching this text. It would seem Jesus is putting your cart before the horse

You say: “No one can ascend back to Heaven” so I must know what says that people came from heaven to begin with. I would also like to see where you base your suggestion that these people born in heaven are “elohim.” Assuming that most or all of the early twelve tribes were these spirit people, why does God describe different people as elohim? Especially if these people of particular consequence are naturally spirit-people as per God’s favor and installing them in positions of power. If someone in the Tanakh refers to Elohim doing something, how do I know if it’s actually God or another spirit-person?
If God is conversing with these pre-human spirit-people in the opening of Genesis, why are people made in his/their image? Do humans naturally bear a specific resemblance to these pre-humans? How so? What specifies that Adam is different? Is there something in Gen 2:7?

Could you tell me what happens to the spirit-people and the pure-flesh people after they die? It would be especially helpful if you could show me scriptures talking about specific pure-flesh folks. Are any prominent ‘good guys’ in the text?

Please tell me more about this alternate dimension of existence, “It is a dimension of light and not of atomic structure.” If it is based on light, we’re talking about a more intermingled relationship between matter and energy? Why is it that an altogether different structure is called for? Do you base this entirely off of references to God and those things attributed to him as ‘light?’ Like John 1 as an example. I know there are references to the presence of God destroying people, but what I usually hear claimed as the cause is sin. I can jump on your boat for that and say its because they aren’t actually spirit-people. So then, can you show me scripture that talks about this dimension itself destroying people instead of it being an attribute of God?
And how does this alternate dimension come to exist on a portion of the earth? I am a little familiar with some different theories about expanded dimensions in quantum physics and such. Is there one that you think adequately hints at what you believe?

I'm excited about hearing back from ya! (...and not excited by this UI I'm replying in)

I'm excited about hearing back from ya! (...and not excited by this UI I'm replying in)

I like blogging with Orion. He has some very interesting points to raise at times.

The UI is a bit finicky at times aint it

TO ALL

Let us begin with horsewhipping, then hanging from the yardarm, then drawn and quartered, made to walk the plank, placed in an iron maiden, stretched on the rack, buried up to my neck in sand and have honed poured over my head and let the ants have their turn............................sufficient?

SAN CHONINO

So there you go, Orionsbelt. Be glad you're nowhere nearby, or you'd be in a lot of pain. If you honestly believe that it's a transgression, you need to get on your knees and ask God to open your nailed-shut eyes. Assclown.

First of all, never bring empty threats to a gun fight. What I supplied from the word of God is the word of God, I cannot help it if you do not find it to your liking. Why not read Ezra 9&10 just for fun.

XYTHE

Since you have dusted off your Strong's, look up entry number 119 in the Hebrew dictionary. I know it will not make a bit of difference, but do so anyway.

LITTLE WHIP


For example, if you studied some of the books and essays that the Aryan Nations have published on the topic, you'd find a lot of ammo to use while supporting your main argument. There are scriptures pertaining to the topic that I've yet to see you quote, and they are more compelling than the ones I have seen you quote. This is not 'preaching to the choir' lol, this is looking to the choir for reinforcement and validation of beliefs you already embrace.

By the same token, what you're doing here is preaching to the peanut gallery, and they will use every device available to tear your argument apart, including each other. You ought to listen to them, again, you might learn something.

Oh am I learning something! No, as much as you would like to see me wrap myself around the aryan thing, I'll not sit under the shade of that tree.
I told you already that I am not interested in anyone else's work. What I write must stand on its own as I have come to understand it. I need no one elses banner to fly. Other arguments may or may not aid, it matters to me not. I am going to stick with what I have found on my own, lacking or not.
As to listening to others as to learn something.......I cannot make myself disbelieve what I have come to believe. I was there and have moved out of that fog. By the reverse, I cannot seem to get to anyone here anyway, no matter what I quote from the Bible, Hebrew or not. I have come under attack and yet here I am still and for what? What do I gain? I am sharing information and thats it, I cannot force anyone to believe and I do not force anything on anyone. The seeds will take hold and grow if they land on fertile soil, and that is all one can do.

Avecrien

To do exactly as you asked would take me about a month. All one needs read is what Christ said. I know the text says born again, but that contradicts what He says about having come from Heaven in order to return. The translators have fooled around plenty changing words and orders, even so, one can glean the jist of it by further reading. The bible always has a second or more witness to a given topic. Example: When Eve says " I have gotten a man (child) from the "Lord", one automatically assumes that this must be God (YHVH), The Father. One of Satan's many names is Baal. When one looks up Baal in the Strong's Concordance, we find that one of the entries for that title is.......you guessed it..."Lord". The same holds true for the word "earth", it can mean the entire globe, or just a particular land or country. One must piece the puzzle together and if a piece just does not fit, then the whole puzzle is amiss.

Elohim is always plural. It is God's celestial household, his sons, his children begotten of the Father. Yes the flesh is in the image of God and his family. Upon reading the bible we come across the word "Man" and this can mean Adam, for Adam and the generations thereof, Ish and Isha, which is Issue male and female or son or daughter. Israel is made up of three Hebrew words,
Issue Ruling with God - the word El is used for Lord as well. There is also Enosh,Geber,Nephalim, etc, and if one is not patient enough to look up every single synonomous word for "Man" , one gets confused as to who is who and what is what.

The Bible is specifically written to, for and about and by one particular people, which is why Christ said go only unto the house of Israel and that He came strictly for them. This is the household of God. Gentiles are those Adamites who are not directly linked to the tribes, but are grafted in for they have the same origins.
The people of the earth, or those in the terrestrial plane, created on the sixth day, must remain in the plane in which they were created, but as to being restricted mainly to planet earth is not known. The Universe has over a hundred and twenty six trillion suns and around each may have planets suitable for life.

One of the 163 books of the Bible which was not canonised is the book of Enoch. In it he describes being taken up in a whirlwind, not unlike the highly polished bronze circular ships in Ezekiel. Enoch numbered the planets as 10, which he called the wanderers (for they were not stationary objects, but followed orbital paths). He was taken to what he was told as heaven and even though he said he was no longer in the flesh, he could not tell a difference (same body type). Once there he was told to observe and to write down what he saw.
When leaving the vessel he was on, he was hesitant to step down on what he said was a plane of light, but did so and he said the light was rigid, for it did hold me. He saw thousands of craft like the one he had been on and he asked just who all these were that were coming and going. He was told that all that he saw were his brethren and that he had come from there and that he would return.
I am simply reporting what I read and make no claims one way or another. I do find it plausible.
Just as there are sounds we cannot hear, there is light we cannot see. Waveforms vary tremendously in each. Atomic structure depends on the atom behaving in a certain way. Matter can be changed by changing the waveform of the atom. One can destroy a building, but those atoms are still present, just not in the order that they were in previously. The electron revolves around the nucleus at a rate of the speed of light and generate a frequency of vibration. One can manipulate the vibration and create change, as in melting ore to make steel. It is a liquid in very high temperatures, and a solid at lower temperatures.
Light too has a frequency vibration and by changing the frequency, one can make light a solid - for any purpose. Who would have ever thought that light could be used to burn holes in solid objects made of a variety of materials, the Laser.
Now, light can change the atomic structure of objects, but the atom has no effect on light.
In certain frequencies, light and atoms cannot coexist and since atoms have no effect on light, light will change the structure of the atom even to its very frequency at which it exists.
Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of Heaven
That which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit.
Flesh is of the atom
Spirit is of light.

Orionsbelt 77

I am going to stick with what I have found on my own

Many of use do this Orion. For me, I do it because I have that unction that what I believe is true, and of course I feel this unction is devine.

It's possible that because we are individuals, God treats our beliefs on an individual basis, as long as you adhear to His main plan. I never thought about it this way until just now.

I have come under attack and yet here I am still and for what?

I dont like the attack, defending ones beliefs are one thing, malicious name calling and jibs are not really neccessary. I dont condone it, but I do understand it. We all feel that unction for what we believe to be the truth, and its our job as Christians to spread that word. Sometimes we get carried away, and rather than having a battle of the minds, some of us get offended and it comes out on our typing.

The seeds will take hold and grow if they land on fertile soil, and that is all one can do.

Well said, and I hope thats what we all are trying to accomplish

Why not read Ezra 9&10 just for fun.

Why not pull your head out of your ass and think rather than imagine things that your god is telling you through your misinterpretation of passages of one of the many books making up the bible. it's not the infallible book you hold it up to be - it was written by man, and has suffered translation after translation after translation. We don't even have the originals. Who's to say what the Lord really said? But I do not, will not believe that he honestly condemns interracial relationships.

And you're still an assclown.

SC....

If you have one original, but make 5000 copies of the original and then many more copies are made from the copies of the original how accurate do you think they'd be? Can they be trustworthy? I'd say yes. Because we have so much information to go by.

We have in possession over 5000 original copies of the Greek NT. Something like 5,500 from a very early date. We can take those original copies and make comparisons. Here and there maybe a scribal error but having so many original copies on hand is proof enough for me to believe that what we hold today in our hands is what God intended us to have.

These copies are far and away the most we have of any ancient work, yet these other ancient works are never questioned. Why? If this was a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt.

Sir Frederic Kenyon, former director and principal librarian of the British Museum, was one of the foremost experts on ancient manuscripts and their authority. Shortly before his death he wrote this concerning the NT.

"The interval between the dates of original composition (of the NT) and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the NT may be regarded as finally established." (The Bible and Archaeology, pp 288-89.)

But I do not, will not believe that he honestly condemns interracial relationships.

I still can't buy it either.

These copies are far and away the most we have of any ancient work, yet these other ancient works are never questioned. Why?

Satan does not care as much about other publications.

Satan does not care as much about other publications.

  

XYTHE & CO.

Lots to catch up on here. Now you know very well that a Crow and a Robin make a Crobin
A Turtle and a Frog make a Trog. And of course it is well known that a mule was originally called a Honkey.

The Adamic race is a separate line in and of itself. The Adamic race is divided only by tribe, not by sub-species.
The bible follows Adam's seed through Shem, not Ham or Japeth, for the progeny of those two disappear. By the time Abraham gets to Canaan it is filled with peoples not of Adam's seed at all. There is no listing of Ham' s or Japeth's seedline once they migrate, and none of the peoples listed are of their pedigree. They did not form other races, they were absorbed by the races that were already there.
If one couple of a single race could produce a multiplicity of races, you have to then explain why and how it stopped and resumed producing the race of initial origin and why given all this time there would not be one large mongrel race with no differing charateristics from one person at one end of the globe to another.
God's explanation is pure and simple: All races except Adam's were created before the eighth day, thousands of years before Adam ever arrived. Those races were given their lands and God Himself set the bounds thereof.

Fossil records of humans pre-date the arrival of Adam. The chinese have only been chinese, indians of their varied sort - Central American, South American, Siberian, North American, etc, have been preserved. Blacks have been preserved, The tan race of the Assyrians are still in Egypt, and they have all been here for thousands of years before Adam.
Adam was the first to till the ground for food. We grow wheat, Asians have rice for their wheat and obtain much if not all of what sustains them from water - rice and seafood.
Other races , some nomadic, were provided their food wherever they find it, remember them being given dominion and having all seed bearing plants for food? All those things God provided for them, they did not need to plant, nurture and harvest anything.

Now, when Abraham makes his eldest servant swear by the Lord, the God of heaven that he not take a wife for his son Isaac from the peoples of Canaan, to instead go unto Abraham's own kindred (remember that Abraham was told by God Himself that Abraham's seed would carry the lineage), and therefore there were no Adamites in the area and thus the lineage of Ham and Japeth were no longer available. They were either absorbed or died off.
The only other tracable people that were in the area were the Kenites and they were not of Adam, but they later attached themselves to the tribe of Judah and for that Judah was cut off - remember the stick was broken?
The other peoples in that area were mixed with the Nephiim, and for that Abraham's servant must travel back to where Abraham came from to seek a wife for Isaac. This was not for any religious purpose, but for continuing of the seedline.........what, do you think Abraham was dissappointed that the local girls were Catholic,and he preferred a Lutheran? Racial purity is the name of the game here.

Lets move up to the New Testament now and listen in on this conversation between Christ and the Canaanite woman........
Remember the Canaanite woman was chasing after Christ , wanting him to aid her for her daughter was vexed with a devil, and He answered her not a word (Ignored).
The disciples asked that Christ send her away and Christ's response was " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"
She then said "Lord, help me". Christ responded "It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs"
She said "Truth Lord, yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table"
By her acknowledgment that she knew she was not one of the children, not one of the sheep, but as a dog, Christ granted her request, but up to that point ,Christ wanted nothing to do with her.
Funny how we never hear this story in church, huh? Unless one spins the living hell out of it, taken as it is, it is self explanatory.

Now as to the accuracy of the bible. Yes in the english translation there is much wrong with it, hence the need for the Strong's, and subsequent versions are even more corrupt. But the original Greek and Hebrew texts are intact.
The Hebrew Massorah, for example is a page with text , but it has a border surrounding the text. In this border are instructions for copying. Every letter, every aleph, every sentence is numbered. It cannot be altered, for a finished copy was examined by the scribe that had written out the first copy and the scribe next in line was present for the examination as well, and his next copy would then be examined for accuracy. It is as brilliant as it is foolproof.
It is only when it is translated that a scribe, if he is so minded, can change things around, and with all the confusion surrounding the bible as it is presented in english, this tampering is abundantly clear.
As I said, we still have a way to take the english back to the Greek and Hebrew, to cast some light into the darkness.

Your very favorite Assclown-
Orionsbelt 77

LITTLE WHIP

I just may have to refer to you as "Little Horn" soon.
I was tempted at once to disregard your question, but then my silence would soon come into question by others chomping at the bit to see just how I respond to the bait. You do not camoflauge your snares, but garnish your web with subtlety.

I would enact no law regarding mixing of races, for that law already exists. All I have done is point out where the bible does reference these things and perhaps save some people great embarrassment in the future.
You continually strive to link me with something I am not and that seems to rile you for reasons that are not clear, unless as to catch me unawares as if to shout in triumph "You see! I told you guys that OB77 was a - fill in the blank!
Though what I expound and difuse may be similar to others, it has none effect on me or what I will continue to say in these hallowed halls of J.U.
Even the enemies of the Kingdom itself do I leave alone, for they will be gathered up at the harvest by the angels. tied into bundles and burned, but I shall not refrain from identifying them. They are of the serpent. I have been instructed to be wiser than the serpent and a word to the wise is sufficient.

OB77

Racial purity is the name of the game here.

This is true. It was very essential that the bloodline be intact for the coming of the Messiah. I agree here with you on this.

But as far as interacial marriages, we are not now bound by this. I see nothing of this anywhere in scripture outside of this, and for this reason only. We are not in fear of polluting any bloodline for any other Messiah. Again, we are to be yoked spiritually not racially.

Think about Rahab and Ruth for instance. Both married into the faith and heritage of the Jews, and both are mentioned in the lineage of Christ. Rahab was a Prostitute and Ruth was a Moabitess, of a people considered to be enemies of God.

The disciples asked that Christ send her away and Christ's response was " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" She then said "Lord, help me". Christ responded "It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs" She said "Truth Lord, yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table" By her acknowledgment that she knew she was not one of the children, not one of the sheep, but as a dog, Christ granted her request, but up to that point ,Christ wanted nothing to do with her.

She was not a JEW. She was a Gentile. That's all. What does this have to do with interracial marriages? What Jesus was saying was that He came for His own. Gentiles were called Dogs by the Jews. Jesus came for His own but his own rejected Him. Salvation was offered to the JEWS first. Goes quite well with the principle of scripture that says one is to take care of his own first. If they don't they are called infidels. Jesus was doing the same.

We see quite clearly tho later, that He gives them up (Jews) and leaves the Temple for good. He even calls it "their house" in contrast to "My house."

As far as the English translations are concerned. No they are not perfect, but they are very accurate without any true meaning being lost in the transfer of the languages. ESV and the NASB from what I understand are very literal, as close to the original languages as can be done and the best bet for those so dedicated to the diligent study of God's word.

KFC.

She was not a gentile, she was a canaanite. Among the Canaanite peoples, not one was out of the seedline of Adam.
The law was kind unto kind and Christ said He did not come to change one jot, iota or aleph of the law, so it still stands, there is no expiration date.
Remember Mamzer? The great transgressions of race mixing in Ezra 9&10? Abraham wanting one of his own kind for his son?

Matthew chapter 5, verses 17-20, in a nutshell ,states that Christ did not come to destroy the law, that heaven and earth shall pass away before the law passes away, and anyone who breaks even the least of the laws and teaches others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jews and Israel are not one and the same. Never were, never will be.



Get used to your new name, Least.

I'm not sure if anyone knows about the fact that the flood story isn't unique to just the bible. In fact the story of a flood, in which a boat/ark is buildt and 2 of every creature and a bird is released and returns with a branch of a tree is actually one of the first recorded stories ever written, that survives today.

This was written in on cuneiform, in Mesopotamia some 3200-2600 BC, before the pyramids, before civilizations developed farming and empires and expansion.

It's really interesting since nobody who was around is here to tell us what it was like and we can only gather what we can think of the pictographs which were their written language. For a long time a historical artifact called the rosetta stone was lost and until found prevented us from knowing the pictographs were actually more then just art, but a language.

I'm not sure if anyone knows about the fact that the flood story isn't unique to just the bible. In fact the story of a flood, in which a boat/ark is buildt and 2 of every creature and a bird is released and returns with a branch of a tree is actually one of the first recorded stories ever written, that survives today.

yes, I've actually repeated this many times here on JU. Just about every culture has a flood story in their origins. I believe that it all comes from the story in Genesis and that this is a story of non fiction not fiction.

It's really interesting since nobody who was around is here to tell us what it was like and we can only gather what we can think of the pictographs which were their written language.

Nice circle talk.

yes, I've actually repeated this many times here on JU. Just about every culture has a flood story in their origins. I believe that it all comes from the story in Genesis and that this is a story of non fiction not fiction.

I disagree with you my friend. I believe that each area was flooded out and each area saved what they could which would explain the diversity of animal life on the planet. I also believe that God told each race in each area to do as was done with the ark. It would explain how some people were found after the flood, Noah's people met and mated with someone.