Guilty--but it's pure hell in the back of a Beetle.

OK, forget trite. Perhaps I'm out of my depth here but not having sex before marriage is a Victorian thing. What does it have to do with my being a poorer Christian?----or being a sinner, for that matter? It's your attitude and allegiance to God that's important. Am I trying to do good for my fellow man? I try and I pray to try, but I sure had fun as a teenager.

Am I less of a Christian in God's eyes?

Am I less of a Christian in God's eyes?

the past is the past,

it doesn't matter how you start, it's the finish that counts.

I've never heard of the 80 yard dash...have you?

Deference.
Ok, you have your dot com dictionary and I have mine....Its in book form, you know those things with paper pages that have words printed upon them and are bound with a hard cover? Its titled: Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary. Under the entry for the word Dogma, guess which definition is in the number one, letter A position? Why it says right here that Dogma, first and foremost is: "something held as an established opinion".
Now that we have established that your Dogma won't hunt, lets get back to the facts (even though facts get in the way of a good argument).
I have no interest in opinion as to the word of God. I do have an interest in accuracy, which is why I refer to the Greek and Hebrew for confirmation of things in the Bible, written in english. Now as to fornication being a sin (transgression of divine law), Class, lets open our Bibles to 1st Corinthians, Chapter 6 , verse 18, where we read thus:"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body". Now back up a bit to verse 9; "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decieved: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind".
The word "fornication" is used 36 times throughout the Bible. "Fornications", 3 times. "Fornicator",2 times. "Fornicators" 3 times.
Yup, people be fornicatin all over the Bible. I do agree with your assessment of so called "religious leaders", televangelists and such who, after an hour of their pacing and ranting and raving, one hasn't the slightest idea of what they are talking about. The same can be said for just about every church service I have ever attended ( I no longer am a member of the CHURCH OF THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE). Nor I am a member of any club, cult, society, rite, group,circle, square,triangle or religion..........yes religion. Though I am a Christian, Christianity is not a religion, but is reality. I refuse to lump God the Father and Christ my Lord and Saviour in with any other tin god that there is out in the world that the heathen worship.
Please address your replies to me, Orionsbelt 77........I just feel all gooey inside when you do.......................................

I INDEED never DO IT. but IF I who was you, I POSSIBLY FEEL REALLY wrong. but REMEMBER THAT the LORD . our SIN would IN PARDON IF we REALLY INSAF. AND tried TO FORGIVE YOURSELF, SO THAT the GUILT does not haunt you DURING . BE SURE THAT the LORD ME SORRY would the BEHAVIOUR you.
from Lena Indonesians

I've got no problem with sex before marriage. These days accidental pregnancy is fairly easily avoidable and women are no longer property, so it doesn't really matter if you have sex before, during, or after marriage. No one involved is going to be shamed. Unwanted pregnancies and STDs can be a problem even for married couples.

Lena - Kalau Anda bisa menulis lagi dalam bahasa indonesia saya bisa menerjemah. Bahasa Inggris Anda agak sulit dingerti.

Nothing that a married couple do together as man and wife in bed can be considered defiling

hmmmmmm what about if one or both engages in sexual activity while simultaneously & wantonly emptying a cabinet of folders previously stored in groups according to some sorta alpha or numeric scheme?

hmmmmmm what about if one or both engages in sexual activity while simultaneously & wantonly emptying a cabinet of folders previously stored in groups according to some sorta alpha or numeric scheme?

Well then STRAIGHT to hell for them, do not pass purgatory, straight to the fiery furnace!

Kingbee
Whoever heard of one keeping a file cabinet in their bed? Well, there are stranger things I suppose.

Tova7
There is no such thing as Purgatory, unless you are speaking of the place where the rich man views Lazarus from across a great gulf.
Hell is not a fiery furnace, nor is it the lake of fire, nor is it a place of eternal torture, nor is it a place where Satan dwells.

Cactoblasta.
You have no problem with sex outside of marriage, but fortunately you are not in charge. It is God himself who sets the standards and makes the rules. What I think and what you and everyone else thinks, counts for nothing. In the end, it is what God thinks that matters.
About married couples and unwanted pregnancies...........yes, solutions are readily available. Odd that they have discovered "cures" for the dreaded disease known as pregnancy so easily, but not yet for so many diseases that actually cause death, is it not?
STD's in marriage oddly enough, do not come from amusement park rides, or farming, or model railroading, they are acquired by having sex with someone who carries the specific disease in question. Either one or both parties contracted a disease prior to marriage, or by having an extramarital affair and that is one very good reason against fornication, which is one reason we can discern that God actually knows what He is talking about, when He sets these rules down in the first place.

Hell is not a fiery furnace, nor is it the lake of fire, nor is it a place of eternal torture, nor is it a place where Satan dwells.

well I agree with one thing here. It's not the place where Satan dwells.....YET. But he will. Hell was prepared for Satan and his angels and it IS called the lake of fire in scripture. It's also shown to be a place of torment as evidenced by the man you gave as your example, Lazarus and the following verse in Revelation.

"And the devil that deceived therin was cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:10.

And not going to church for a Christian is not being obedient to Christ. Christ died for the church. I can cite hundreds of verses that support belonging to a local body as an important part of what He wants for us.

KFC
Yes, Satan and all who give their allegiance to him will go into the lake of fire, but the lake of fire is not Hell. I wrote an article on this very same subject for a Christian message board a number of years ago, and perhaps it is time I submit it as an article here.
All those who go into the lake of fire perish. One of Satan's names is Son of Perdition and Perdition means to perish from without and from within, to no longer exist. The lake of fire will be sealed over and done away with, for Heaven shall be here on earth after judgment day and after that there shall be no more tears. You cannot have Heaven here while poor ol' Uncle Billy is screaming in agony night and day just down the road. The memory of the lake of fire will cease to exist also along with the memory of all those who went into it.

KFC
Now as to Churches. There are seven in the book of Revelation. God finds fault with all but two, Smyrna and Philadelphia. Which one of the seven do you belong to? Smyrna and Philadelphia knew the truth and did not get sidetracked with mumbo jumbo nonsense. I am a member of either one of those, for what the two share in common is that they know who the Kenites are. Rev 3:6 -" He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" Those that have ears have understanding, Christ himself used that phrase when trying to get something important across and would add that certain things were to be understood only by some and not by some others, hence He who hath ears, instead of everyone has ears.

I don't think we should feel guilty about it. I mean, we are not back in the days when every move is based on the bible alone. Sex is a great thing and is another form of expression of whatever. Why should we confine ourselves to just the scriptures that were written by men claiming that they were guided by the holy spirit. Anyone can say they were guided by the holy spirit. Let God be the arbiter or whatever. I think He is forgiving for every mistakes we ever make.

Tova7 There is no such thing as Purgatory, unless you are speaking of the place where the rich man views Lazarus from across a great gulf. Hell is not a fiery furnace, nor is it the lake of fire, nor is it a place of eternal torture, nor is it a place where Satan dwells.

Well since I do not know Kingbee to be a Christian, at least from anything I've read here.. I do know him to be very well read and educated....so I was referring loosely (tongue in cheek) to Dante's Divine Comedy (with purgatory).  Believing him astute enough to "get it" and give him a chuckle.

If you took about three seconds to actually CARE enough about other people on JU to find out something about them, you'd know when we are "joking."

Oh wait, that's right.  In your zadon you have decided you are wise and pontification your calling.

Odd, thought we were called to be HUMBLE.

Various forms of "pride"...guess which one you come across to me as?

    A. Self-admiration - "Look at me!"
         1. Natural - my abilities, talents, assets
         2. Spiritual - my spiritual gifts, my ministry
    B. Self-aggrandizement - "Don't I look good/great?"
         1. Natural - my looks, my importance
         2. Spiritual - my position in the church
    C. Self-attention - "Listen to me!"]
         1. Natural - my understanding and viewpoint]
         2. Spiritual - my Biblical and theological knowledge]
    D. Self-justification - "I am right]!"
         1. Natural - my way is the right way]
         2. Spiritual - our doctrine and polity is right]
    E. Self-sufficiency - "I can do it!"
         1. Natural - my abilities, my leadership
         2. Spiritual - our programs will make it happen
    F. Self-aspiration - "Let me win!"
         1. Natural - competitive spirit; one-up-manship
         2. Spiritual - our statistics will prove us successful
    G. Self-seeking - "Give me mine!"
         1. Natural - my rights; what I deserve
         2. Spiritual - our political rights and physical edifice
    H. Self-exaltation - "Praise me!"
         1. Natural - my credit, glory, commendation
         2. Spiritual - our procedures and success

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/pride.html

Tova 7
Three seconds? Usually I require much more than that, boy you must work fast. Fast enough to where you feel comfortable enough to assess my very fiber of existence to the point of supplying a whole list of the things you believe of me. Just who is doing what to who here?
One thing you forgot on your list, and that is that I can be, and most often than not am a real wise ass, but why am I telling you this, when you have already used your three seconds to get to know me?
If you want to play lumberjack, you had best hold up your end of the log.

Lang mae yer lum reek, wi' anitha's co and Ta Ta the Noo................

PedXing. You obviously believe in God, for you state that He is the arbiter and has the ability to forgive , but refuse to believe the men who wrote the words that provided the origin of your belief in the first place?

Not Guilty. In saying this I don't mean that I haven't had sex before marriage. I simply mean that I do not ascribe to your God and His
teachings about 'sin' (capitals out of respect for your faith).

You have no problem with sex outside of marriage, but fortunately you are not in charge. It is God himself who sets the standards and makes the rules. What I think and what you and everyone else thinks, counts for nothing. In the end, it is what God thinks that matters.

I don't believe in God and I am in charge of myself and you are not in charge of me.

Many young people do not realize the damage that is done when they lose their virginity. Physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Just my thoughts at this time.

Hmmm... I wasn't damaged. No regrets for how I lost my virginity and I was 17 at the time. I just don't see what the big deal is. I was a willing participant. How was I physically, emotionally, or spiritaully damaged? Enlighten me please! But don't quote your Bible. It has no more meaning that Aesop's fables to me.

If all men have free will and are fallable, and men wrote the Bible, then how is the Bible infallabe????

Question of the Day.
I have never stated that I did not have sex before I was married. I did.....a whole bunch of times. As many times as I could and that probably wasn't enough. Many things could have happened that would have made a mess of my life, and fortunately for me, none occurred. That cannot be said for the millions of unwed births. Children without fathers, growing up in poverty only to repeat the cycle ad infinitum.

You are in charge of yourself? Welcome to the in charge of ourselves club! We, each and every one of us is in charge of ourselves whether we believe in God or not. Back when I was having all that sex without marriage, I was a genuine bonafide atheist.....yup, hard to believe perhaps, but nonetheless true.

Very few of the writers of the Bible were infallible. When closely examining their lifestyles, one cannot help but wonder what God was thinking when He chose them to do what He would have them do. To get a down to earth everyday glimpse of just how little man has changed in our thinking and behavior, I recommend reading Eccleisiastes. It is written for the man who lives under the sun (which is all of us). Its an easy read, and requires no belief in anything other than a belief in common sense.

Question. How is it that you wonder what spiritual damage may have occurred by your behavior, when you do not believe in God?
No God, no spirit, for the only place one could gain knowledge of spirit in the first place is through His word.

One thing I know of first hand is that to believe that there is no God takes a greater level of faith, than it does to believe upon Him.

Take Care.

when you have already used your three seconds to get to know me?

That's just it.  I'm not trying to "impart wisdom to the unenlightened" therefore I don't need to get to know you, unless I so choose.

You will have to forgive me if you are indeed not SOT.  I was responding more to the articles with his name on them then to yours as much.

But you do come off like a jehovah witness...not the message but the delivery.  The "I don't know you but you need this info..." before ever even checking to see if its already out there, and PERHAPS you are preachin to the choir.

It smacks of pride imo. 

And 3 seconds was the time I believed it would take you to click on someone's blog to get to know them.  If you are such a wise ass....well, you might need to brush up or you'd have picked up on that.

Sons of Thunder

Its tough being a (pk) Preachers Kid because so much is expected of you or back in the day it was. People expected you to conduct yourself a certain way and had great expectations of you because of your parents. I'm from the old school you might say, born in the early forties and a baby boomer. Of course my parents expected as much from me also, and its tough being made to go to a place (the church) where you really don't want to go in the first place. But growing up as I did in a strict christian family with values and morals and christian teaching I was forced to go the house of worship from birth up to age 17 when I joined the US Army and started my as I thought adult life leaving the demands of church and parents as I thought behind. The same principles I thought I'd left behind I found in the military far from home and a bunch of people to enforce them.

I returned home from the military without hurt or harm coming to me, however by the time I was 20 years old I'd had numerous sexual encounters with much older women then myself, many married, single, divorced, widowed, I didn't care. I knew better because I'd been taught better, but I was rebellious against my parents and the church. I was going to do it my way and did for many years until a change occured in my life. God found me and made me a changed person, and I became born again.

You see sex almost costs me my life several times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being with the wrong person in the wrong place. Trying to be a know it all at a young age was fun but highly stupid on my part. Been there, done that and as I look back over my life, I see where God kept this fool out of trouble and alive. Been through three (3) marriages that didn't work so I've learn to be content in whatever state I find myself. Loneliness isn't so bad, I've been alone most of my life. I find it hard to love after so many affairs, the trust is betrayed and the heart is broken over and over. As I grow older each year I keep saying to myself maybe this is the year of change in my life! These are just my comments on the subject. Thanks you for yours.

I was guilty as hell, but I repented and asked God's forgiveness and I feel better. But thats just and my comments.