Nakedness is a crime?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/5014450.stm
from JoeUser Forums
I read this article today Link

Why are people so offended by nudity? Is it not a natural thing? Especially when you are exercising that right in your own garden, and you are only trying to get a tan. Is it really that offensive to someone who is looking in YOUR garden because you are naked? I could understand if you was walking down the street butt naked, or you was dancing around like a mad person in your garden, and your nakedness was just to get at people or to annoy them. But sunbathing, is that SO bad?

In todays world it would seem we are always presuming the worse. That people can conduct entirely innocent acts, and yet it is frowned upon simply because of what COULD happen, or what we presume is wrong. Children shouldn't see a naked body? Maybe not. However not all acts of nakedness are down to sexual exploits. Even though we are programmed to think so. That isn't always the case. The human body, naked, is a beautiful thing, and it shouldn't be something we have to hide. Now that doesn't mean I think we should all walk around naked, because this would offend people, and rightly so. However, I think in the confines of our own home, and when we are doing it for completely innocent reasons, people should just mind their own business.

Maybe I am writing this, and it's a slight double standard. Because even though I say the human body is a perfectly natural thing and we should share it, when I see young girls with their breasts hanging out and skirts upto their asses I don't really think that is right. Though that is for very different reasons. They are doing it for sexual attention, and they are doing it to tease people, and to be seen in a certain way. So there are differences, and considering we are adults shouldn't we be able to see the difference? The person in that article said they were "shaken" to see this. It makes me wonder how they would react if they saw something really awful!
2,770 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Your own duplicity in the matter shows the root of why public nakedness is (and should continue to be) illegal.

You say that the human body is beautiful (and you are right), but then you yourself give reasons why it shouldn't be on display all the time. Laws are nothing more than lists of behavior deemed unacceptable by a community. You give your own list of unacceptable nudity here in your article.

Ok, so a personal should have the right to sunbathe nude in their own yard. However, "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" right? So, while you should have the right to sunbathe nude in your own yard, you don't have the right to expose yourself to others. With rights come responsibility. If you want to sunbathe in the nude, in your own yard, then there are things you can do to ensure that right. Privacy fences are one way that comes to mind right now.

I do agree that we, as a society, are a little more uptight about our bodies than we probably should be. However, we often forget that rights go both ways.

For example... You decide that you enjoy working in your garden in nothing but work gloves. One day you look over and see a neighbor watching you. You are in your yard he is in his... Is he wrong for liking what he sees and watching you?

The next day several of his friends have joined him in his yard. They are all there to watch you work in your garden naked. Are any rights violated?

Then you find out that your neighbor is charging money for guys to come see Nekkid Gardening Girl....

Again, he is in his yard, doing what he wants to do in his yard... You are in your own yard, doing what you want to do in your yard....

So everyone is happy...right?
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
You say that the human body is beautiful (and you are right), but then you yourself give reasons why it shouldn't be on display all the time.


I realise that this article is looking at both sides of the argument. There are certain times when it shouldn't be on display and I think as adults we should be able to judge when that is. Though not everyone is capable of making that decision, and you're right that is why there is laws in place to stop people doing certain things.

while you should have the right to sunbathe nude in your own yard, you don't have the right to expose yourself to others. With rights come responsibility. If you want to sunbathe in the nude, in your own yard, then there are things you can do to ensure that right. Privacy fences are one way that comes to mind right now.


Hmm...I agree that you shouldn't expose yourself to others, and that it shouldn't be in someones face. However is lying there naked really that offensive? The person wasn't dancing about and drawing attention to themselves, they weren't screaming from the rooftops that they were naked. They were lying in their own garden. Though I agree that people who wish to expose themselves should be sensible about it, and do it in a manner where it doesn't offend people. Reading this article though, the act was done with no intention of offending anyone.

You make a very good point with the what you do in your own yard example, and I do see where you are coming from. I guess I just think people are more capable of policing themselves, and people should know what right and wrong is. I guess that isn't the society we live in though.

Thanks for the comment x
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
For example... You decide that you enjoy working in your garden in nothing but work gloves. One day you look over and see a neighbor watching you. You are in your yard he is in his... Is he wrong for liking what he sees and watching you?


It doesn’t matter if your naked or clothed the law is if you have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” then your neighbor is a peeping tom and can be arrested. So if your neighbor can’t go into his yard without seeing you with his naked eye then he’s within his rights to stare. If you put up a privacy fence then you have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” and if he gets up on a ladder then he’s breaking the law.

It’s rather funny how many hang-ups adults have about nudity. I say adults because children have no problem with it until we instill it in them. We’ve even devolved a little. National Geographic use to show the breast of tribal women in their documentaries, now I notice they have the nipples blurred out. We seem to have drawn the line at female nipples and all genitalia. Even plastic surgery shows have a little blurry area over the nipple when showing a breast enlargement procedure. I know of no one that would be offended by nudity in these non-sexual contexts.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Ah, if she wants to be nekkid, let her be. As for her neighbour, well he's probably a prude and a closet voyeur, which is why I think he felt he had to film her. It amazes me how upset people can get over a naked body. I mean it wasn't like she was putting on a show. This sounds to me to be nothing more than a modern-day witch hunt.

When I see young girls with their breasts hanging out and skirts up to their asses I don't really think that is right.


I agree, in some respects but I also understand fashion is a form of expression and as valid as any other form. A lot of young women will always dress in the provocative styles of their day. But to be offended by a 55 year old women sunbathing in her own back yard is something altogether different.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I was tempted to say that people should be allowed to dress or not dress as they see fit without other people getting all bent out of shape about it, but looking around this truckstop I realized that some people definately should be covered as well as possible.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

If I were her, I'd bring a civil suit (if they have such thing in the UK) against him for taking video of her in the nude. 

I also wonder if this guy tried to settle this with her before taking her to court.  I mean, she probably would have put up a privacy screen if she thought that he was watching her.

Of course, there are a lot of people who think that we should be able to present ourselves in our natural state.  I see men all the time walking around during summer without shirts on- they have bigger boobs than mine, yet it's allowed to walk around like that.  If that isn't illegal, why should it be "wrong" to sunbathe nekkid on your own property?

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Film of Ms Burgess strolling naked along a shared driveway and past Mr Jones' window was shown to magistrates who were asked to decide whether Ms Burgess had offended anyone.


Apparently Ms. Burgess was doing more than merely sunbathing in her own backyard. "shared driveways" and other people's windows aren't exactly places where privacy is expected.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Nakedness is a crime?"

Depends on who is naked.

"Why are people so offended by nudity? Is it not a natural thing?"

So is going to the bathroom but who wants to see that?

"Children shouldn't see a naked body? Maybe not. However not all acts of nakedness are down to sexual exploits."

But how do you decide? The difference between a "natural" person who just doesn't think about being naked and an exhibitionist is basically all internal. I've known girls that, *cough*, claimed not to think about it, but after a while you realized they really fed off of the shock and awe of walking around scantily clad or naked in front of people.

"The human body, naked, is a beautiful thing, and it shouldn't be something we have to hide. "

An admirable sentiment, but I have to believe it isn't 100% truthful. Like I said above, it depends on who. Even plain, ordinary bodies can be beautiful, but no one wants to see Abe Vigoda or Rosanne Arnold naked. No one I'd want to hang out with, anyway. Sadly, that's what you get a lot of when you allow nudity in public.

"However, I think in the confines of our own home, and when we are doing it for completely innocent reasons, people should just mind their own business."

With that I agree. I don't think we need to be seeking out nudity to squelch unless it is forced on us against our will.

It's like that old joke. A lady calls the police and tells them her neighbor is walking around naked in front of her and needs to be arrested. When they show up they look around and ask her where she's seen the neighbor, and she points up to a window. The police strain and can't even see in it, and ask her how in the world the neighbor is walking around in front of her like that. She says, "Oh, you have to stand on this box..."

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
well he's probably a prude and a closet voyeur, which is why I think he felt he had to film her. It amazes me how upset people can get over a naked body. I mean it wasn't like she was putting on a show. This sounds to me to be nothing more than a modern-day witch hunt.


The point is she wasn't putting on a show. She wasn't doing anything rude, she was just in her garden! I think her neighbour is just as responsible as you said.

A lot of young women will always dress in the provocative styles of their day.


Yep I agree...I think I'm just a prude!

It’s rather funny how many hang-ups adults have about nudity. I say adults because children have no problem with it until we instill it in them. We’ve even devolved a little


I think we could learn alot from children. They aren't as cynical as us adults...what is it they say...out of the mouths of babes...

but looking around this truckstop I realized that some people definately should be covered as well as possible


Hehe...Yes I can think of some that would prefer to see clothed, hehe!

Of course, there are a lot of people who think that we should be able to present ourselves in our natural state. I see men all the time walking around during summer without shirts on- they have bigger boobs than mine, yet it's allowed to walk around like that. If that isn't illegal, why should it be "wrong" to sunbathe nekkid on your own property?


It's always the ones with the big bellies and man breasts that do it! Where's all the nice toned six pacs! I'm sure if the man had approached her, and was truely offended she would of done something to cover it up. However, I really don't see what harm she was causing in her own garden!

Apparently Ms. Burgess was doing more than merely sunbathing in her own backyard. "shared driveways" and other people's windows aren't exactly places where privacy is expected.


No I agree, that isn't right. I don't have a problem with in your own back garden though.

So is going to the bathroom but who wants to see that?


Very true.

I've known girls that, *cough*, claimed not to think about it, but after a while you realized they really fed off of the shock and awe of walking around scantily clad or naked in front of people.


Can't you tell by the way they behave, and how they carry themselves what they are aiming to do though?

An admirable sentiment, but I have to believe it isn't 100% truthful. Like I said above, it depends on who. Even plain, ordinary bodies can be beautiful, but no one wants to see Abe Vigoda or Rosanne Arnold naked


Ok ok you got me. That is correct not everyone is body beautiful....

It's like that old joke. A lady calls the police and tells them her neighbor is walking around naked in front of her and needs to be arrested. When they show up they look around and ask her where she's seen the neighbor, and she points up to a window. The police strain and can't even see in it, and ask her how in the world the neighbor is walking around in front of her like that. She says, "Oh, you have to stand on this box..."


Hehe that made me giggle, thanks

Thanks for the comments x
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

It doesn’t matter if your naked or clothed the law is if you have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” then your neighbor is a peeping tom and can be arrested. So if your neighbor can’t go into his yard without seeing you with his naked eye then he’s within his rights to stare. If you put up a privacy fence then you have a “reasonable expectation of privacy” and if he gets up on a ladder then he’s breaking the law.

Oh I love this!  But if he goes upstairs and then looks out his window and sees you over the privacy fence, it is not peeping as your fence is not high enough to be reasonable!  You see how this goes?  that is why I love this argument!  As there is no definitive answer.

But after glorying in Stubby's great answer, to get back to your question, I think Parated said it best.  However sometimes, right and wrong and legal and illegal are not the same.

For me, leave something up to my imagination, and I find that much more desirable to look at.  Show me all, and I get bored (unless I said I do to you. ).

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
No I agree, that isn't right. I don't have a problem with in your own back garden though.


Sally, you said she was just in her own backyard... no.. she was walking along the shared driveway and in front of windows.

You make some decent points about how we should be able to go nude in our own yards... but this situation isn't about that. She was walking around with her privates showing in some not so private areas :~D
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
However sometimes, right and wrong and legal and illegal are not the same.


Well said. There has to be some things that are left to your own sense of right and wrong, and conducting yourself in a manner that YOU think is correct.

For me, leave something up to my imagination, and I find that much more desirable to look at. Show me all, and I get bored (unless I said I do to you. ).


Agreed. I don't think she was sunbathing to give anyone a cheap thrill though.

You make some decent points about how we should be able to go nude in our own yards... but this situation isn't about that. She was walking around with her privates showing in some not so private areas


Ted, I'm not disagreeing with you. You are right. That was wrong. The issue with sunbathing in your own garden however, that I don't have a problem with.

Thanks fro the comments x
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Nakedness is a crime?


If it is me that way -- Yes. Otherwise...*shrugs*

~L