Ashamed to be "BlueDev"

-or- forsaking the name

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12050859/
from JoeUser Forums

That is right.  I am ashamed to be "BlueDev".  In fact, sufficiently ashamed that I may change my nick completely. 

All thanks to the Duke Mens Lacrosse team.

And I know I am not the only one.  There are hundreds, even thousands of us who are sickened by the whole affair.  The team has been suspended from playing the rest of the season.  If it is found out that the accusations are true, a whole lot more better happen. 

Sickened.  Just sickened.

3,843 views 23 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yeah, I read about this yesterday on MSNBC, and I too was shocked.  I lived in NC for a while when I first came to the US and have always been fond of the Blue Devils.

I'm shocked and saddened and ashamed of them too.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
One group of people does not a society make.  Most universities are a micorocosmic society.  You have very good people, and very bad people.  Do not let the bad ones dictate to you.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I hate to hear about situations like this. I can't imagine what causes a person to commit such a heinous crime against someone else. It makes me feel sick inside.
But stand up with pride and continue to be BD. What else am I going to make fun of if you change your name?
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not saying it's likely, but let's remember that these kids haven't actually be charged yet--they are waiting for a DNA sample to be returned. I don't know the entire story, but I'd hate to tar the entire team with the brush that should be used to beat three of them (senseless, I might add--and of course, there is me, assuming that the three are guilty).

While I too would be disgusted by the LAX players involved, I'd be grateful for the response of the student body. Women are raped in our society all the time. When I was a rape awareness counselor in college the stat we used was "every minute three women are raped in the US." I'm sure it's more now. Those women don't have entire student bodies protesting on their behalf. Take some pride in knowing that the Duke student body is supporting the victim of the attack--as that doesn't always happen.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gotta come to the defense of the yet to be charged, "innocent until proven guilty", Lacrosse Team.

For those unfamiliar with Durham, there is a definite "Love - Hate" relationship with the City and University, and there is a pervasive racial divide in the city as well. All that taken into consideration leads me to believe there's more in play here than rape aligations. In fact it sounds a whole lot like the Tawanna Brawley episode that brought ol' Al Sharpton to the spotlight.

Everyone wants the players to come forward, and there is consternation over the fact that, other than a terse catagorical denial of the charges, none of the team has made a public comment. In their current situation of "Social Lynching" I'm sure their competent Legal Advisors have certainly implemented a gag order. Anything they may say would certainly be turned against them.

Does anyone remember that security guard in Atlanta who was originally suspected of the Olympic Bombing? He was innocent and actually a hero, but the FBI ruined his life, not until Eric Rudolph confessed to the bombing did they relent. But you never saw an official retraction or appology.

What if our distressed victim turns out to be nothing more than a oportunistic prostitute?
Do you think the crowds will bang pots and pans outside her house?
Will there be "Take Back the Field" rallies for the beseiged team?

Naw, there just a bunch of rich white guys.........
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: Dynosoar



Dyno why does it have to come down to the color of their skins? Why not just focus on the fact that a woman was allegedly brutally raped?

It think that it's horrible that here is a woman who may have been so brutally abused and looking for justice will have others thinking and saying the things you just did.

Rape is a horrible dispicable crime and anyone who does that to another human should pay the price. If it was a white woman accusing three black men do you think there would be this type of reaction? Of course there would be the same "social lynching" and a lot, lot more besides!

So what if they are white, so what if they are priveledge? They are accused of a horrible thing and if it's true then justice should be served.

It's sad that in this country many can't get beyond what color someone is.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's sad that in this country many can't get beyond what color someone is.


Every race has a black eye group.

Foreverserenity,

I think you may have missed Dynosoar's point (either that or I did ). The point is that because of the lack of retraction or apologies these three gentleman if shown inocent will be scared for the rest of their lives as a result. I agree with you that this is a horrendous act and should be thoroughly investigated. My issue is we are too quick to want to know who the suspects are and thus are labeled regardless of conviction.

There is no longer accountability for the one who makes accusations. One thing I really liked about the Biblical justice is if the accuser was found to be false they then in return would receive the punishment they pursued upon the defendent. Then suspects wouldn't be revealed until after ruling?
Reply #8 from WinCustomize Forums Top
To me, you're BlueDev, that's you, and you're just fine by me. Hang in there, you stand for good things and have a great attitude. Right on, BlueDev!
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Whoa,

I never mentioned race until the very end of my comment, and then only in the context of a lack of support for the Lacrosse team IF they are innocent.

Which is worse?

Wrongly and Publicly accusing someone of Rape, or the act itself?

They are both heinous and awful acts, But no one here has been arrested, no one charged, no one, yet the popular opinion of the moment is THEY ARE ALL GUILTY !!!!!

No trial, no investigation, just the accusations of one woman, who by the way, is engaged in questionable self-employment, and may, by the nature of her occupation, be involved in, well, prostitution.

Let me specify that conjecture; In North Carolina "Exotic Dancing" is VERY regulated.
Gentlemens Clubs are relegated to Industrial areas, the proformers are required to be licensed complete with background checks as well as the clubs and their owners.
Off premise proformances are illegal, and no club owner would dare jepardize his license, or allow a dancer to take that risk.

That said, there are entrepenurial young women out there who will break that law, and the vast majority of those women break a few more laws, and do more than dance.....

My personal experience; ( I've been to more than a few Batchelor Parties ) I have the business cards of 4 "exotic dancers" within a 50 mile radius ( including Durham) that will do ANYTHING for a price, it is the norm for their "Industry", not a stereotype, the norm.

My prediction is that the only thing the Duke Lacrosse team is guilty of is stiffing ( pun intended )her fee.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

Thanks for the replies.

Briefly, I agree, they should not be condemned until their is more evidence.  I apprecaite shades bringing up the fact that there is such a student reaction, that bodes well and is a reason to be pleased to be a Blue Devil.

Good conversation.  Unfortunately I just read an editorial that reduced the entire story down to a "whites picking on blacks" issue.  I find that pretty reprehensible.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
i AGEEE with dyno on this one, we need to wait and see if anyone is guilty of anything first.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Every race has a black eye group.


I'm not sure what this means Adventure, forgive me I need enlightening! I'm sometimes behind the times.







think you may have missed Dynosoar's point (either that or I did ). The point is that because of the lack of retraction or apologies these three gentleman if shown inocent will be scared for the rest of their lives as a result.


Naw, I don't think I did. However, you are right that if these men are innocent, the lable will be there for the rest of their lives and if they are guilty, and only three are, then the entire team and the school will be labled for life. And that's the sad part too. In that you are both correct.


My issue is we are too quick to want to know who the suspects are and thus are labeled regardless of conviction.


I thought that in a rape case the vitim is not known until perhaps the end of the investigation? Or is that only when the vitims are underage? I can't remember. It would be good though if the victims identity is protected, no matter the age.


There is no longer accountability for the one who makes accusations.


Oh but there is now, a case here in Florida of a young woman on a university campus charging that someone or several men raped her, was recently arrested because she was lying. This case could very well be the same tale, who knows. But it won't be known until after the investigation and that is why the identities of all involved should have been kept quiet. Even though it is a university and there is a sports team involved, maybe that's why they shouldnt' have named names yet.



Whoa,

I never mentioned race until the very end of my comment, and then only in the context of a lack of support for the Lacrosse team IF they are innocent.



Dyno, I respect you and I have enjoyed a discussion or two with you, [let me butter you up a bit,LOL] no seriously, it's true, but really, you did mention race at the beginning, after your first sentence:

For those unfamiliar with Durham, there is a definite "Love - Hate" relationship with the City and University, and there is a pervasive racial divide in the city as well.


Then you brought up one of the sorriest excuse of a case that anyone, including me,will agree with you on was absolutely crazy and leaves a bad taste:

All that taken into consideration leads me to believe there's more in play here than rape aligations. In fact it sounds a whole lot like the Tawanna Brawley episode that brought ol' Al Sharpton to the spotlight.






Which is worse?

Wrongly and Publicly accusing someone of Rape, or the act itself?

They are both heinous and awful acts,


We're in agremment here and that's what I referred to in my response.


But no one here has been arrested, no one charged, no one, yet the popular opinion of the moment is THEY ARE ALL GUILTY !!!!!


That's why the university president is asking for calm and yes, unfortunately in the public court of this country, anyone stand accused is usually guilty until they prove their innocense. It is a sad fact and no one but the press has control over this as well. They are quick to give up such intimate details and identify who is who because of the sensationality of the story. Famous sports team, innocent woman; black accuser, white and priveledge accussee.

These should not be the focus, but they will be because of how our society is. And that is the shame of it all. They don't really care about the woman being raped, just the sensation of the headlines and stories that comes from it.


No trial, no investigation, just the accusations of one woman, who by the way, is engaged in questionable self-employment, and may, by the nature of her occupation, be involved in, well, prostitution.


Um...they are investigating, but the masses are impatient. At least that's what I understood from what I read?

The fact that this woman is doing exotic dancing to put herself through college is not strange at all. And now whose doing the accusing here, you're hinting that she is a prostitute or involved in it.

The unfortunate thing is many girls, of any race, do this as a way, a quick way to help them pay for college because it pays big. The fact that they do this I'm sure they know does come with risks. They should never have gone out on their own without someone to protect them, as what I have heard is the norm [yep, I get my facts from TV shows and the movies! No really, I saw a program on one of those talk shows a couple of years ago, they featured college women who did this to help them pay for college]. The fact that it was only the two of them probably means they did this on their own to get the extra cash - which means they're just greedy.

That are very needy and saw no harm in dancing for a couple of college boys they thought they could handle. The problem is they split up. And that's why that happened to them. [just using common sense to guess here].

My personal experience; ( I've been to more than a few Batchelor Parties ) I have the business cards of 4 "exotic dancers" within a 50 mile radius ( including Durham) that will do ANYTHING for a price, it is the norm for their "Industry", not a stereotype, the norm.


Most definately that is a norm, stereotypical or otherwise.


My prediction is that the only thing the Duke Lacrosse team is guilty of is stiffing ( pun intended )her fee.


So because they stick it to her (pun fully intended) and didn't pony up she's crying wolf? Well, if that's the case, then she will deserve whatever is coming to her. But until then, bringing this down to race relations in NC is besides the point.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Forever,

No attack taken, and I concede I did mention race when setting the scene.

I'll add a little more background to my comment;

Durham is a racially, socio-economically, and educationally divided city. More so than any other city of comparable size than I could imagine.

EVERYTHING that happens in the Triangle area gets posed in the media ( at least locally)on a racial or, to be politically correct, cultural basis.

The NAACP is talking to a microphone at every school board meeting, every Nightly News Program features, if not leads, with the Gang violence dejour, and, well, I hope you get the picture.

The folks in this area that make a living out of promoting victimhood pounced on this like a cat on a mouse, the DA, who has political aspirations fell right in, and the liberal fringe of the campus naturally followed suit...makes good TV.

There are alot of College aged women entertaining in the area Gentlemens Clubs, legally and lucratively, and I'm sure more than a few of them are financing their education...
The freelancers however do ( as I assume we agree ) cater to a different clientle, and offer a, uh, wider menu selection.....

The accuser is 28, and I'd venture a guess that she is either a part-time student, or an adult program student, certainly not the average undergrad....but I continue to stand by my Tawanna Brawley comparison, 'cause there's somebody out there wagging this dog.

Finally, I didn't attempt to frame this as a racist issue, but that's exactly how it is being presented, and if SHE is lying the whole thing will be dropped from the public view
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
So because they stick it to her (pun fully intended) and didn't pony up she's crying wolf? Well, if that's the case, then she will deserve whatever is coming to her. But until then, bringing this down to race relations in NC is besides the point.


bad joke time.... when does a whore cry rape?









when the check bounces!
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
bad joke time....


MM.... sorry. In my opinion, that is more than a bad joke.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Man, that is awful.

I noticed something odd, ie:
The alleged victim, a student at nearby North Carolina Central University, has told police she was pulled into a bathroom, beaten, choked and raped by three men at a March 13 party, where she and another dancer were hired to perform.


What I'm wondering is this: what happened, exactly?
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Reply By: DynosoarPosted: Thursday, March 30, 2006Forever, No attack taken, and I concede I did mention race when setting the scene.


Dyno, you're such a gentleman! Thank you for not taking this discussion down the wrong road. I'm glad we can have an open discussion without either of us feeling slighted!


I'll add a little more background to my comment;


This helped me a lot to understand why you said what you did. I have never been to NC except passing through the outskirts on the way to somewhere else. I also had no idea that things were like that! Thanks so much for the enlightenment.

That must be so darn frustrating that things are like that there. I do understand though because there was a time in NY when that's how everything would be painted no matter what happened, it would be a matter of us against them or black vs white. It’s a sad state of affairs when it’s like that and it was extremely frustrating to the people who lived in the city of NY going about their business quite amicably. Yes there were the moments of concern and there were elements, especially political ones that loved to drag things down to that level. Although I don’t live in NY anymore I know that still goes on. And we ourselves in our fair city of Orlando here sometimes will experience this type of thing but not to the extent of what goes on in NC.

So now I know why you mentioned that. Just fill us all in next time.





The accuser is 28, and I'd venture a guess that she is either a part-time student, or an adult program student, certainly not the average undergrad....but I continue to stand by my Tawanna Brawley comparison, 'cause there's somebody out there wagging this dog.


I couldn't help but laugh at your last comment there!! But gee, that's horrible!


I certainly do hope that if she's crying wolf just because she didn't get what she wants that she does get the full arm of the justice system!



I didn't attempt to frame this as a racist issue


I'm sorry if what I said made it look this way for you. I was trying to point out that what happened should be of the utmost focus, rather than the race of the people involved. I only saw the fact that a woman was raped.


Thanks again Dyno for not letting this be 'bad blood' between us. I just like to 'dysect' in order to understand another person's point of view.




bad joke time.... when does a whore cry rape?when the check bounces!


Oh Ellie, the bad joke that topped all bad joke!!
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
#16 by momijiki
Thursday, March 30, 2006


bad joke time....


MM.... sorry. In my opinion, that is more than a bad joke


IF i OFFENDED YOU IN ANYWAY i DEEPLY APOLIGIZE, i TRULY mean no harm.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Apparently all the members of the team volunteered DNA samples - something you're likely to be reluctant to do if you're guilty.

There are way too many people just this side of Harry Belafonte these days, who pounce on this kind of stuff, knowing everything without knowing anything. Really sad. I can only assume that the alleged victim is black, because nowhere have I seen it officially stated (only that the 9-1-1 caller was a black female, but that call seemed to have nothing to do with the "party"), but there sure has been a ton of race talk.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
The race talk came from the fact that the only player not asked to volunteer DNA was a black student, right? And people are apt to believe it because it happens all the time. We might as well just accept that neaderthaal team sports in school just distracts from the point and turns out cretins more often than not.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Pretty weak basis for an allegation of racism, and would only really make sense if the black player had been the only one asked for a sample. Unless I'm mistaken, the alleged victim stated her alleged attackers were all white, so not bothering with him would seem to be logical, though I guess in a technical sense that runs counter to the principle of not discriminating on the basis of skin color. Maybe we need an "Equal Opportunity in Crime" bill.