Brad: Jilluser said that "the government provides them with cars", my response in return was to say that I think that she was mistaken in that belief. Later posts show that she was told so by a group on a bus, a group that lived on the reserve. That's a bit of a different statement than the first, wouldn't you think?

There were some things that she later said in regards to money that weren't entirely correct, that have a correlation to happenings in history. I didn't back it up with cites (which is your issue, not mine) but rather tried to show how I know this from a personal viewpoint. I 'could' go do some research and find the exact documentation to show how Casino revenue is allocated, but in many other blogging exchanges with both JillUser and DharmaGrl, we've never tended to do so. Mind you, we rarely get involved in political debates either. Having said that, we have exchanged information about our lives at home and our family life. I didn't feel like I 'started' anything nor assumed a position where my experience is more legitimate, rather, was simply adding in on a conversation.

It really isn't a big deal. Just something interesting to discuss. Coming from someone who has been at home with a six year old during a 2 week spring break... it's saying a lot.

Dharma and Jill, excuse my exuberance regarding this topic... I'm sorry if you think I did imply that I was better than you for holding these opinions.

No need to apologize, I didn't take it that you were holding yourself in higher esteem.

I didn't, as I said, write this article with a specific ethnic group in my mind...however, I think that this, this discussion, is some what constructive...at least we know each others point of view now!

all i am going to say is that i agree.
its good to help those in need-only if they are trying to help themselves. we all must admit that with all the people who truly need welfare there are just as many using it as an easy out. theres always some of each. but as long as there is a system, someone will screw it...so we have to take the bad with the good...or the good with the bad....however you want to see it....

Thank you for your clarity. Reading back on it now, I may have been a little bit more bothered than I thought. It wasn't your comment, it was me thinking about the government not paying its enlisted military members enough money to support their families. So, forgive me...I started thinking a little off the subject....
I'm really sorry about you losing the swing set. (just lightening the mood a little)
And thank you for serving.

NickyG, I think it is good for people to hear the way other people see things. I think everyone has an issue or two that they hold dear to their hearts and get defensive about. I think perception needs to be taken into account whether it is accurate or not.

It's OK crazy lady ( and I think that swing set was a cheap price to pay, the boy friend is still paying.....hehehe)

Isn't it nice when we can all get along?

Seriously, I learned from Nicky things that I didn't know about Aboriginal people..I also learned that I'm not alone in my perceptions (or misperceptions) of Native peoples in the US.

Jill's right, we all have causes or issues that are dear to us and that get us defensive or riled up. I'm actually surprised (and proud of you) Nicky, that you held your own so calmly and intelligently. Other threads have degenerated into name-calling fiascos over less sensitive subjects than this...and this was sensitive, to me anway. Actually, I was afraid that[ B] I had offended you Nicky..and that was the last thing I had wanted to do because I think of you as my friend.

I read that article and thought "man, nobody's gonna comment on an article like this." Well, we're all wrong every once in a while.

~Dan

My family left the White Mountain rez immediately after WWII and moved to KY, and eventually VA. Since leaving the rez my family has never accepted a single penny of government hand-out money. I live the same way; I work for what I have and accept no help from the government.

To be honest, I have never set foot on a reservation and don't intend to do so. I do attend several Pow Wow events every year, and most of the people I know through them don't live on a reservation either. So, I am not qualified to speak of rez conditions from a first-hand perspective.

As for welfare, while I feel that there are certainly people out there who honestly need assistance, most on welfare are just too lazy to work.

Those living on reservations certainly don't have the opportunities that people elsewhere do. I understand that. But, someone who lives in an area where they can get a job but simply sit on their can and collect a government check are just plain lazy. While I have heard people say "I can't find a job" many times, it's just plain bunk. At 42 years of age, I have never not been able to find work even when the jobless rates were sky high. If a person wants to work, they can.

As for the reservations, the government would rather keep paying welfare and other assistance monies than to invest the time, effort, and money to truly fix the problems. The primary voters don't care about reservation problems, so neither do the politicians.

Ok this is me shutting up now.

Why didn't you think anyone would comment, Dan? Just curious...

Mason, thanks for your input. Don't shut up on account of me, I'm still listening...

As for the reservations, the government would rather keep paying welfare and other assistance monies than to invest the time, effort, and money to truly fix the problems. The primary voters don't care about reservation problems, so neither do the politicians

I agree, but also think that lack of education is partly why this is the case.

Dharma, thanks for the great words. It's hard to not get angry about welfare issues looking at it from the perspective that I do, which is a somewhat different from the way welfare dependency is outside of Native life. I don't want to offend anyone either, especially Jilluser, or Brad, who holds different ways of thinking about things than I do. I have learned alot from him, and others who write with opinions like his... I don't always agree with him, but feel that he is respectful about other people's beliefs if you can state them clearly, with good reasoning. This way of behaving online is what makes it work out. We all get a chance to see different perspectives without taking it personal... although sometimes it is hard not to get offended if some points could apply to your circumstances without stating and knowing details. It's often risky to stand against what everyone else is against, but if you work at it, its easier to do so, without jumping to conclusions.

As for the reservations, the government would rather keep paying welfare and other assistance monies than to invest the time, effort, and money to truly fix the problems.

The problem is, the government can't fix anything.  If people don't have the will to change, they won't.  The Native Americans have lobbyist, but they are busy making sure that the Casinos don't lose their ability to function.  They could be using their efforts to fix the internals of the reservations.  The reservations themselves also have their own government.  What is their own government doing to help them?  You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

NickyG, I don't think you have ever been offensive to anyone and I sincerely apologize if I have ever offended you. I find it very valuable to have opposing views presented in reasonable dialoge. Like I said before, we all have subjects that are sensitive for us. Sometimes someone elses view will make you reevaluate your own or sometimes it reconfirms your own stance. Either way, the exchange has value.

Mason, you made some very bold statements that I appreciate. I am with Dharma, don't shut up.

Are you bitter because you feel "ripped off" - or because you weren't smart enough to figure out the system until now ?

Kick back - stop working so hard, enjoy life !

Or become wealthy enough that you don't have to worry about it - or at least so that it doesn't cause you to become bitter.

Like me

Bit of both, Poet.

I don't work so hard, I stay home with the kids, and as much as possible, I do enjoy life.

I'm not interested in beoming wealthy, I'm more interested in being content....and I dont think that being wealthy will bring contentment, I think it just brings it's own set of problems.

hey, check out my monroe (madonna).....

I have to say that I too am bitter about the way the system works. You mentioned in your article that people who have problems due to (read: self elected) drug abuse can classify as disabled and receive government funds. My stepfather is one such individual. When he was a youth he chose to ingest large quantities of many different drugs and now, a 51 year old man, receives nearly $2,000/mo from the government.

Yet, on the other hand, I have a friend who is a full time student and has a job. He has a double astigmatism and requires glasses that have a very expensive prescription. So one day he goes to our local health and welfare department to ask for assistance paying for his glasses. (Why can't he pay for them himself you ask, since he has a job? That's becuase we live in one of the lowest paying states in the country (ID)). They acutally told him that since he can, and does, work and goes to school he doesn't qualify for help. They told him to quit his job or drop out of school and then he'd qualify for their assistance.

So...he's working for his own living, and trying to better his future and become a better contributor to society. Yet despite all his efforts, the state would rather he quit his job/school if he wants his glasses. However, my stepdad sits around doing nothing and collects $2000/mo because he chose to bake his brain.

That's messed up.

~Melchiah

Surely even if people are irresponsible, even if they only have themselves to blame for their problems, they still need help once they are jobless and wrecked. Would you rather see them rot? I suppose not everyone is as strong as you lot, but they're still human.

Well, there's something to be said for "You made your bed, now lay in it." I agree that some people genuinely need help and those services should be there for them when they do. However, when someone such as my stepdad *choses* to bake his brain on drugs and become disabled, the taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill. Stupidity on his part does not constitute financial responsibility on my part.

~Melchiah

I'd say let them rot, hidden paw. Simply because I've lived through the ordeal of people who elect to wreck their lives and innocent people and family members, as well.
The term Low Life SCUM applies.

And every race, regardless of race, has their own set of problems. Warning: Stereotypes ahead. A generalization of things, not picking on individuals or claiming all is the same.


You got white trash trailer parks.
You got run down black ghettos.
You got destroyed indian reservations.
You got nasty latino areas.
etc.,. etc.,. etc., -Do all of these claim and abuse welfare? Yes. It's a type of Humanity, not an attribute of Race. Lowlife welfare soaking lazy SCUM come in all colors, live in all places, and act a same way. They're just as racist towards others as we are of them. They're as bitter and hateful as the next. Skin color only determines where this scum lives, culturally. That's all.

Dharma, don't worry..in the end, whether it is money, pride, or blood..these people pay for their years of abuse. Personally, pride is the worst to lose.