Things I learned today that pissed me off.

from JoeUser Forums



Today I learned some things that I didn't know before...things that really pissed me off.

I learned that in this state (SD) a family of 4 is eligible for $465 a month in food stamps. I don't (can't afford to) spend that much and there's 5 of us!!! Bear in mind that food stapms don't buy soap, paper goods, personal toiletries etc...so the whole amount is going on edible food!

I also learned that women with kids who are under the age of 6, who can show that they have no adequate childcare can use TANF for more than the current 60 month limit. So, they'll just keep on having kids to secure their income, huh?

I learned that people who lived on "Indian land" where there is an unemployment rate of 50% or more are also exempt from the 60 month limit. Way to encourage people to get off the reservations...

Today I learned a lot about disability. Did you know that substance addiction disorder can qualify you for disability? So, we're paying for crack heads and alcoholics to feed their addictions. Depression is also a disability, I didn't know that. If I had known I could have gotten paid for staying home and being depressed I wouldn't have gone and sought help! (I'm kidding) Obesity, that'll get you SSD payments too. People are getting paid for being fat.

I'm sorry if I sound bitter..scratch that, I'm not sorry. Right now I am feeling bitter, and to be honest a little 'ripped off'. I don't mind my tax dollar (yes, I pay taxes, just because I'm not a citizen doesn't mean they won't tax me) going to help someone who really needs it, but this....this is just ridiculous. My husband busts his ass, and we can't afford to spend as much on food a month as some people get in food stamps...and they have fewer people in their family! It just makes me sick that someone who decides to play the system gets as much, if not more, than the honest joe who works a 40+ hour week and looks after his own.

I know this article is going to piss some people off. I don't care. I stopped caring when I read that alcoholism is a disability, when I saw how much some people get to spend a month on food.

There, I said it.

BTW, all the info about disability came from the government site. The info about food stamps and TANF came from the SD state site.
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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Don't get too upset, it's a dark secret that helps drive the economy. ( almost joking )

For laughs read my article on Social workers perpetuate poverty, I have no statistics to back up the title, but I have years of practical experience.

My neighbor retired from a law practice where he specialized in Disability Benefits, He called it "Happy Law ", where no one loses ????

I have read that some military dependent families at Ft Bragg are receiving aid of some type or another, perhaps worth a look ?
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hey, I hear ya.. I totally agree with your opinions.. I live in Fl, and anyone that knows anything about Florida knows the massive amount of immigrants here, let alone all the people on welfare and food stamps. I am a housewife and have 2 kids.. We didn't qualify for WIC (a program that assists women when they ave babies, providing the adequate amount of formula, milke, eggs, etc).. and my son's 10 months old. According to the guidelines, we should be raising a family of 5 ... PFFFTT!! WHAT? They're fucking cracked out if they think that we can do that when we pay almost a thousand dollars a month just to live somewhere decent, not in get jacked city. It is bullshit that some people get paid for doing shit. My husband is a union ironworker, busts his ass every single day (sometimes even on sundays) in that sweltering heat to be able to support and feed his family. And some motherfuckers are at home doing shit. I am not at all talking shit about those physically disabled, or about the mentally insane, but to get welfare because you're a fucking alcoholic?!?!? Stop drinking!! and because you're a crackhead?? They got themselves in that situation, get themselves out of it. I understand some people need help kicking the habit, but welfare, food stamps, etc?? The government should help them secure a job and as long as they're wortking, help out.. not give them money for being crackheads.. So, i totally agree...
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
I learned that people who lived on "Indian land" where there is an unemployment rate of 50% or more are also exempt from the 60 month limit. Way to encourage people to get off the reservations...


Holy shit, Dharma! What kind of statement is that? Is that what you actually think should happen in 'Indian Land'?!! Are you suggesting that the efforts of assimilation should continue? That welfare dependency hasn't been created in large part due to your (and mine) government? That there are many reasons why encouraging Indians to get off the reservation is a bad idea, altogether?

I do agree that welfare is not the answer to self-sustainability, but advising Indians to abandon what homelands they have left is downright ludicris. There are a myriad of suggestions and answers to absolving welfare dependency on reserves, however, it takes the co-operation of both Native governing systems and the dominant government to work this out. So far, in light of ongoing treaty disputes, land claims, and basic management of Aboriginal money it's certainly not going to happen in the near future. But to abandon what cultural society exists on reserves is only going to make things worse, for the Aboriginal person. For the government, and certain taxpayers, it would be the final and favorable outcome to committing cultural genocide.

Speaking for an entire race, I feel a little "ripped off", too.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Are you suggesting that the efforts of assimilation should continue? That welfare dependency hasn't been created in large part due to your (and mine) government? That there are many reasons why encouraging Indians to get off the reservation is a bad idea, altogether?


Nope, i'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying that people should be assimilated. I'm merely quoting facts. I completly agree with you that there has been a cycle of welfare dependency created..but we have to break that cycle somewhere, wouldn't you agree? I'm saying that encouraging aboriginal peoples to get off the reservations is a good thing, but whilst we have this 'cycle of dependancy' it's not going to happen.

The term "Indian land" is taken verbatim from the SD TANF regulations; their words, not mine.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do agree that breaking the cycle of welfare dependency is our desired outcome. However, getting people off reserves in order to do so is not the answer. The problem is that the act of forcibly removing Aboriginals from their original homes and 'relocating' them to areas that lack in suitability for self-sustainability pretty much ensured non-success in working with what they were left with. Yet, to abandon Native society for employment in non-Native communities would certainly be the first step in creating a downward spiral to cultural and societal genocide. If you took a look at statistics of off-reserve Aboriginals and their involvement in Aboriginal culture it shows that very few retain ties to it, once entering urban society. Furthermore, cross-cultural marriages and relationships that develop from this entrance into non-Native society later ensures (legally) that one becomes 'less' of an Aboriginal due to the 'blood quantum' policy that is in effect brought forth by the dominant government's legislature. So you see, it is more detrimental to Aboriginal society to abandon reserve life, even in favor for work opportunities. The government has designed it to be so.

The way to make sure that welfare dependency is decreased is to work towards putting realistic employment opportunities that are situated on-reserve for every of-age community member... slowly, reserves are starting to try to implement these changes, but it cannot happen without the option of self-government, or at least, the active involvement of the dominant society's government. These are big ideas requiring big changes... that take time, money, interest and involvement from both parties to actualize. I agree that things must be done in order to make these changes... it will be interesting to see how the reserve system continues to progress in the future.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
http://www.state.sd.us/dol/quiz.htm#10. P

The maximum monthly Food Stamp allotment for a typical TANF family in South Dakota (parent and two children) was $329. The average household Food Stamp allotment is $308.

The average length of time an individual receives TANF cash assistance is 26.8 months

Parents who receive TANF payments are required to actively seek employment unless there is a valid reason why they can not.
The only exemptions are:
a) SSI recipients,
b) Social Security disability recipients,
c) 100% disabled Veterans,
d) Parents with children under 12 weeks old, and
e) Individuals who are caring for children other than their own (i.e., grandparents, aunts and uncles).
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I wasn't talking about not seeking employment, Wise Fawn. I was talking about being exempt from the maximum 60 month period that one can remain on TANF. 'Actively seeking employment' can be classed as filling out applications for work, Wise Fawn. It doesn't mean that you're going to GET a job. I'm telling you, I know people who have played the system....

The food stamp allowance you quote is for a parent and 2 children, i.e. a family of 3, not 4 as I quoted, so obviously the amount is going to be lower.

Hmm...the website you quoted is for a quiz, Wise Fawn...yes, they give you the answers, but they DON'T give you all the information. Government propaganda at it's best, I'd say.

Nothing to say about the disability requirements?
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
dharmagrl said it was from the SD site. I visited the MI Gov site and was astonished by the info there too.

WiseFawn already knows how I feel and I know how she feels. She feels that most people get left behind by the system. I feel that the people that truly get screwed in the good old USA are the financially responsible. I learned that early on in life. I worked my butt off in school to get scholarships I had heard so much about. I qualified for 5 different scholarships but only got money (got nice certificates for the others) for only one that was based purely on merit. Why didn't I get money for the others? Because my parents weren't in debt. They built their house and paid for it, bought their cars (I think we had one new car the whole time I was growing up) and maintained them, they didn't get into credit card debt and they had savings for the future.

It is hard for people who work their butts off and see others partying it up at someone else's expense. The thing I know from my experience is the responsible ones tend to continue their climb where as those who don't care about doing for themselves stay where they are forever. Too many people don't care if things ever change though.

Dharmagrl, I went to school near the Chippewa reserve in MI. I always thought of that commercial from the 70s with the native american with the tear on his face. Well, these guys don't exactly keep their land looking pristine. The government provides them with cars. Do they maintain them? No. They drive them into the ground, dump them in the front yard and acquire a new one. The place looks like slumland. Is it because they don't get money? No. Their casinoes are a booming business there. Drug and alcohol abuse run rampant. I am not saying they all live that way mind you. There are some outstanding groups that do their heritage justice. The Pow Wow they have every year is really something to experience. I just don't see a way of helping those that don't truly want to be helped. Too many just want to be maintained.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
quote > I have read that some military dependent families at Ft Bragg are receiving aid of some type or another, perhaps worth a look ?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
The stats I found were old. Here are the more recent for your state.
Food Stamp Program Data for Households Certified to Participate
Average Monthly Benefit per Household is $210.16

December 2003 Data http://www.state.sd.us/social/FoodStamps/index.htm

Food stamp recipients are given a plastic debit card (Dakota EBT Card) instead of paper coupons.

Overview: http://www.state.sd.us/dol/tanf.htm
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 establishes a five-year cap on welfare benefits and requires states to meet certain targets for putting welfare recipients to work. The law eliminated the 60-year-old welfare entitlement known as Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and replaced it with a new program called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF).
TANF (pronounced TAN-iff) provides states a block grant to meet the needs of low-income families with children. With funds from the block grant, states must provide cash assistance to needy families with children, and operate a program to put welfare recipients to work
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Exactly, Jill. Some people don't want to help themselves, they're happy to maintain the status quo because they can. They don't HAVE to better themselves, to move on and be self supporting...

The sites I got my info from are: http://www.state.sd.us/social/TANF/plan.htm You have to read the entire thing to find what i was talking about...

..and oops, I made a mistake! women with chldren under the age of 6 aren't exempt from the 60 month limit. This is what it says:

A single custodial parent of a child under age 6 who has demonstrated an inability to obtain suitable child care will not be required to be "engaged in work".

But you can go read that for yourself now, can't you?

The disability information came from:http://www.socialsecurity.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/index.htm
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
What about those companies like Walmart who do not pay their workers enough and give them health insurance. They have to get state paid health insurance. Most of the products they sell are made overseas. Those are the types of companies that hire former welfare recipients.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well, Wise Fawn, we can quote stats all we want to. It doesn't make a difference to what we think and believe. I think that there are people manipulating the system because I've seen it, and you think that the welfare system is harsh and that everyone using it is honest and good because that's your experience. I've never claimed SSD, SSI, or TANF, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, don't you?
I do think, having read the guidelines, that there is a sector of the American working public that is getting shafted. No amount of statistical information is going to change my mind about that, because I'm living it..and judging from the responses that have been left here so far, I'm not alone.

I'm done arguing about it. I'm not conceding defeat, I'm just done going around in circles.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/welfare.html

In 1996, Congress passed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (Welfare Reform Act). The new law eliminated AFDC, placed permanent ceilings on the amount of federal funding for welfare, and gave each state a block grant of money to help run its welfare program. For example, under the 1996 law, federal funds may only be used to provide a total of five years of aid in a lifetime of a family. Another significant change was the complete exclusion of legal aliens from receiving any SSI benefits. The passage of the Contract with America Advancement Act of 1996 further narrowed the number of people allowed to receive SSI disability benefits by requiring that drug addiction or alcoholism not be a material factor in their disability.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Crazylady,
I only posted the comment to notify the author of potential aid. It was never an attempt to bring reproach upon military families at all.
I know how hard it is to have a family and be military ( I was in Egypt in '84, when my first wife decided to move the kids swing set to her boyfriends house )

As I have always stated, "I have no problem with anyone receiving assistance ", it is, indirectly ,how I make a living.
I just want it recognized for what it is, a lifestyle choice perpetuated by Government Agencies.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dharmagrl, I went to school near the Chippewa reserve in MI. I always thought of that commercial from the 70s with the native american with the tear on his face. Well, these guys don't exactly keep their land looking pristine. The government provides them with cars. Do they maintain them? No. They drive them into the ground, dump them in the front yard and acquire a new one. The place looks like slumland. Is it because they don't get money? No. Their casinoes are a booming business there. Drug and alcohol abuse run rampant. I am not saying they all live that way mind you. There are some outstanding groups that do their heritage justice. The Pow Wow they have every year is really something to experience. I just don't see a way of helping those that don't truly want to be helped. Too many just want to be maintained.



Jilluser,
I think you are mistaken about a great number of things regarding Native reserves and history. I don't know of any Native band, American or otherwise that get vehicles provided for them. For the most part, reserves are slumlands for a myriad of reasons. You can't take generations of people from their homes, place them into residential schools, affect hunting grounds, pollute waters and land, and redefine Native society without expecting thousands of people to be able to adjust so quickly. Alcohol and drug dependency is a direct result from colonialism... we didn't have it before first contact.

Note that many reserves have been relocated to lands that are useless to begin with. Do you think that there was a reason for their removal from their former homelands? Most reserves have experienced legal struggles over land claims and treaty rights that have gone on for decades, and are no closer to being resolved... because of current legal system imposed.

Casinos are a booming business, at least in my area. Do you think that I, as a member of my reserve, have seen one bloody cent from Casino Rama, a reserve that agreed to allocate money to nearby reserves as well? My brother, who is a member of Rama, has received under 20,000.00 since its inception, and their membership is under 700. It's not your typical Aboriginal that sees money from them... it's those people that go into partnership with reserves to run them. Yes, reserves do get money, but most of it gets funneled back into the operation, or goes to creating new social and work programs.

I could go on and on, but the end result would be this: Yes, you are right, from a particular viewpoint. Aboriginal dependency on welfare must be changed and cannot be changed without initiative. No, you are wrong, because this dependency was created by your government, which refuses to find a way to work with Aboriginal governing bodies to make our communities better. The fact is, both American and Canadians governments have a responsibility to see that this happens, due to Aboriginal treaties and agreements made when these countries were reformed under the now dominant society's law.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
further narrowed the number of people allowed to receive SSI disability benefits by requiring that drug addiction or alcoholism not be a material factor in their disability.


Again, we can quote stats all we want to. The site address I gave you for disability information is the Blue Book for physicians to use to determine eligibility. It's dated January 2003. Go take a look...section 12.09, to be exact.





Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

Well there you have it. NickyG has proclaimed the truth based on his experience trumping the experience of others.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
NickyG, what would it serve a person to tell me their family recieved cars if they didn't? This wasn't my conclusion, it was something I was told by a group on a bus that I was taking to a doctor appt in college. I was talking to a group that lived on the reserve. I asked why they thought there were so many cars dumped all over the yards. That is what they told me. Maybe it was a state initiative since the reserve was such a distance from anywhere to work. They openly claimed to abuse it. Why would they do that? BTW, the land where the reserve was located was beautiful. And blaming current drug and alcohol problems on colonists is just another example of making excuses. Most of those people are very proud and true to their heritage. They have control over how they procede in life.

Anyway, again, this sounds like an emotionally based discussion. We don't solve things with emotion. I am with dharmagrl on agreeing to disagree about the state of welfare. I do agree that things aren't currently handled well. The point of disagreement is who is to blame.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

JillUser, I took a course called "Native American History" in college.  It was taught by Native Americans who lived on the nearby reservation (was also overseen by a Professor.)  Their story was much the same, and they blamed "your white government" for the problems.  They also talked about how it was their current culture to abandon their cars instead of fixing them because it was a "statement".  (Still haven't figured that one out, but if you have a clue, please let me know).  I went into the class trying to find out about the deep spirituality that they had and about their culture.  I came out of the class with a bad taste in my mouth.  Somewhere I still have a sheet that compares the "White man's" way of life to the "True American's" (meaning the Native American's) way of life.  I learned about their tax free cigarettes and gas.  About how their alcohol issues are because of "white man's whiskey".  I'm still interested in the spiritual side of the Native Americans.  Too bad that class didn't touch on that as it appears that all the people who were teaching the class had converted to Christianity and mainly used the class as a way of bashing on "white" people. 

However, NickyG. I believe, is from Canada.  Maybe things are different there.

And, I agree, there is no way that everyone is going to agree on the issues around welfare.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Well there you have it. NickyG has proclaimed the truth based on his experience trumping the experience of others.


Brad: Rather than just tossing off a trite response to reading the several paragraphs that I wrote above, why don't you take the time to understand where I was coming from with my comments? One more than one occasion, I've written things that I have learned, but have always stated that my position in life is different than on-reserve living.

Relating information that a reader might not be aware of is no different that what you do in your many articles, although, we come from different areas of interest. It's obvious that you've just jumped in to say your 2 cents, but I don't see what point you were trying to make. I think that I've gone out of my way to show that there are very different perspectives on this large issue... and yes, part of mine was from a personal experience, just as Jilluser's was in her post. (So she explained, later.) There is no one 'truth' in a discussion like this, but with continued interaction and revelation of viewpoints, we are better able to see where someone with a different viewpoint is coming from.

Hell, she could be right, as far as the car thing goes... although in Canada, I haven't heard anything at all about this "statement". As far as 'tax free cigarettes and gas' goes, in Canada at least, it's due to the signing of Treaty 8, that falls under The Indian Act under section 87. exempting status on-reserve Indians from paying tax on a variety of things like tobacco tax, motor gas, provincial sales tax., etc,. My stating this has nothing to do with proclaiming the truth based on my experience of trumping the experience of others. It's a legal fact.

Karmagirl, I hope things are different here in Ontario, Canada, especially concerning the courses in our education system. I've been taught to respect both cultures: one is regarded no higher or deserving than the other, just that we are different cultures which have different viewpoints. Like any other school course, there are good and bad, I guess.

Personally, I went to University in order to learn the cultural aspect of Anishnabes in Ontario. The courses in law, Native rights, and history came after. These courses were taught by highly respected professors who studied at fine institutions like University of Toronto, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge, Columbia, Western, and Harvard. Some Aboriginal, others, not. The history regarding non-Native and Native relations have always been fraught with opposition and misunderstanding. On a much smaller scale: this is no different.

We all seem to agree, however, that no one can agree on the issues surrounding welfare dependency. But it was an interesting discussion, nonetheless.

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
When I came to SD I came with the same impression of Native Peoples that Jill had..I had the strong, proud spiritual warrior image in my head.

I've seen what life 'on the rez' is like. I've seen homes with no running water, and living conditions worse than any I have seen anywhere, ever. I simply couldn't understand why people didn't want to leave, they were complaining about how bad things were, but yet they stayed there! (yesterday's revelation about the TANF explained a lot) I heard a lot of tribal peoples complaining that they wanted to run their nation as they saw fit...but then they ran out of money and couldn't pay their police force a couple of months because they hadn't budgeted properly, and came to the government for help.
I've seen the sterotypical drunk indians staggering into local bars and casinos to cash their welfare checks, I've seen the ones with diabetes (genetically common in Native Americans) who don't have the resources or the knowledge to take care of themselves properly lose limbs because of their disease, and I've seen the blatant and rampant racisim among local business owners and the population in general.
I've also had my misconceptions shattered a few times. Once by a man who bought some stuff at yard sale I held and who drove almost an entire mile back to return the $1 too much I had given him in change. The people who had a relative in the bed next to me when I was recovering from surgery in the hospital who fetched me sodas and entertained me with their stories, who held my hand when I was throwing up and who didn't mind that i kept them awake watching TV..and the people, the van load of people, who pulled over and came to my aid after I had slammed my jeep head on into a semi. They took off their own coats in 15 degree weather, covered me with them, and prayed for me because they thought I would die before the EMS ever got there.

I didn't write this article specifically with Native people in mind. I wrote it because I was pissed off, and I still am pissed off, about the crap I learned about the welfare system.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
NickyG: You were the one who started their response telling JillUser that she's mistaken on a great many things about Native American history as if your personal experience somehow is more legitimate than hers.