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Biblical contradictions

Biblical contradictions

How far are you willing to bend to adhere to dogma?

There has been an ongoing debate on another blog over whether the bible has contradictions on it.  On the one hand you have the skeptics. In the middle the realists. And on the other side, for lack of a better word, you have the dogmatics.

There are countless perceived contradictions in the bible. But whether they are truly a contradiction depends on how far you are willing to read between the lines. 

One of the most blatant contradictions in my opinion is the account of how Judas (the betrayer of Jesus) died.  In the book fo Matthew, Judas feels remorse for what he has done, throws his silver coins down and goes off and hangs himself.

But in the book of Acts, Judas keeps the money, acquires a field and falls headling and bursts open his body.

So how do you reconcile these differences?  In my opinion, a reasonable person would say "Oops. one of them is in error."  But to those who obsess over the literal accuracy of every word in the bible then nothing is beyond interpretting or extending to support your fanatical belief.

For example, with regarsd to Judas, the Christian Apologetics Ministry argues:

"There is no contradiction here at all because both are true.  A contradiction occurs when one statement excludes the possibility of another.  In fact, what happened here is that Judas went and hung himself and then his body later fell down and split open.  In other words, the rope or branch of the tree probably broke due to the weight and his body fell down and his bowels spilled out.
     Also, notice that Matt. 27:3-8 tells us specifically how Judas died, by hanging.  Acts 1:16-19 merely tells us that he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out.  Acts does not tell us that this is the means of his death where Matthew does."

But that requires the reader to suspend belief beyond the point where any reasonable person could accept. Here's why:

1) Matthew states explicitly that Judas threw away the money and that the priests then took the money bought a field to bury strangers.  By contrast, Acts says that Judas bought the field and feel "headlong" and his bowels came out.

2) Some argue "well, he didn't die from hanging, that he may have fallen down and that's how he died."  This is really silly because it doesn't say he attempted to hang himself. He hanged himself. Period. If you're going to take the bible literally, you can't start adding your own spin on it.  And if you hang yourself, you don't fall head long. 

3) Another argument I've seen is that well, acts doesn't actually say he died. It just says his bowels gushed out. He may not have died from this.  Please.  At that point, it becomes meaningless.  You fall and your bowels come out, you die.

Common sense says that in one passage, Judas felt guilt, thew away the money, and hung himself.  And the other passage takes the irony path -- Judas the villain keeps the money, buys  a field and ironically dies horribly getting his just deserts.  One is a suicide, the other implies an accident which is a pretty important difference.

This is an age-old debate that pretty much boils down to seperating the zealots from the non-zealots.  After debating the issue myself, I decided to also look to see if others had debated this issue on-line.  In turns out, yep, this particular blatant contradiction has been argued many tiems before.

One writer who looked at it put it like this:

How do these verses contradict each other?

  1. In Matthew, Judas threw away the money to the priests before dying, then he went to hang himself. After that, the priests bought a field. In Acts, Judas used the money himself to buy a field.
  2. In Matthew, Judas threw away the money before dying, and then a field was bought. In Acts, the field was bought before Judas died.
  3. In Matthew, he died by hanging himself, whilst in Acts he fell headlong and his bowels gushed out.

How could an inerrantist Christian respond to these three points? Let me speculate on some possible counter-arguments.

As for point 1, one could infer that when Acts says that Judas bought the field, what is meant is that the priests bought the field on his behalf. This, however, is not permissible, since if one is allowed to change the meaning of the language, no significant discussion about the actual meaning of anything can be conducted. In ordinary language, we do not say that "this man purchased a field for $100" if someone else purchased it for their own usage with money thrown away by its original owner. Clearly, from Matthew, Judas did not give any order for the priests to buy a field for his money, and even if he did, why would they obey him, who they despised?

As for point 2, it seems hard to come up with a counter-argument, since the past tense is used in Matthew ("went and hanged himself"), implying that the execution of the deed had taken place before the purchase of the field. Meanwhile, Acts clearly presents the case where the field is bought prior to his dying (indeed, since he is said to have bought it himself!).

As for point 3, it is logically possible that the story in Acts is consistent with Matthew in terms of the method of dying, but it seems highly unlikely, from how his death is described. If one is to find consistency, one must include many things not in the text. Amongst other things, one wonders how the bowels could gush out simply from his having died by hanging, and one also wonders how he could fall headlong in a field, and where the tree came from (normally, there are no trees in the middle of a field).

Note that it suffices for only one of the three stated contradictions to hold for there to be a contradiction.

In other words, this isn't a new issue.  The handful of people who dogmatically cling to the belief that the Christian bible contains no contradictions have to be, in themselves, willing to essentially add new passages in the bible to fill in the missing gaps.  At which point, the whole argument becomes meaningless.

And this is just one of the more blatant ones. There are plenty of others.  Contradictions in the bible only are a problem if you take the bible literally rather than as a general guide.  Sadly, there are people who cling to the literal words as being infallible.  I personally think that those who do have much less faith than they let on.  If one truly has faith, then such contradictions would be easier to admit to and they'd be able to move on.

 

16,037 views 82 replies
Reply #51 Top
Either you believe that the Bible is a manmade work, and therefore that it is only arond 500 years old, as you say, or you believe that it is a book fashioned by God through men. If that is the case then it is most certainly a book thousands of years in the making.

Here's my problem. When you say:


"So to answer your question I would say that Jesus, Peter and Timothy verified the infallibility of scipture."


1)You have to assume that when Timothy said that, he was vouching both for words that Paul was putting in letters to Corinth, and what he and everyone else was saying, much of which he probably never heard. He was basically establishing the holiness of statements of people as trustworthy as Peter, who denied Christ only a bit earlier.

2) You have to assume they are vouching for those who copied, recopied, translated, and chose which texts were the "official" canon, over the course of hundreds of years, amid struggles that used religion to cement political and economic power.

3) You have to assume that when they talk about 'scripture', that they knew you'd assume they meant the Bible, which didn't exist for a long time after. Most certainly what they read and called scripture wasn't very similar at all to our Old Testament, so we have to assume they meant our scripture, and not theirs.

4)Finally, and most importantly, you have to assume that they are staking the very souls of people on the perfection of material and the translation thereof, that did not exist and that they had never read or reviewed. That requires precognition and a link to God that they, themselves never even claimed to have.

Reply #52 Top
It would be like me writing an article for a magazine that I knew wouldn't be printed for a thousand years. I know that it won't be printed in my language, and I know that much of it will be passed around in vague oral forms for hundreds of years until people don't really know which is the right version.

Yet, I still bet the souls of the people who later read it on my assertion that it is the word of God? ...and not just my article, but every article in the magazine, many which I will never get to read or know the content of, or even who wrote them.

Why would they tell their peers at the time things about a book that wouldn't exist for another 1500 years? Did they mean the Torah, and said it so that it handily ended up referring to other works later?

Did they really ever consider that their words would be called "scripture" and if they had known, would they have bet people's souls on such being infallible? I tend to think not.
Reply #53 Top
Did they really ever consider that their words would be called "scripture" and if they had known, would they have bet people's souls on such being infallible? I tend to think not.


Wow, excellent point!
Reply #54 Top

Either you believe that the Bible is a manmade work, and therefore that it is only arond 500 years old, as you say, or you believe that it is a book fashioned by God through men. If that is the case then it is most certainly a book thousands of years in the making.


Oh I agree it's a book thousands of years in the making. I was referring to what you said here:

The Bible you are referring to was collected hundreds, and sometimes thousands of years after the material was written.


By the time Jesus was walking the earth the OT scriptures were gathered all together. Then about 300 years later they were put together with the NT letters and epistles to make what we have here now. The canon was more or less just a formal sorting of what was inspired by God among the many books being written around that time.

He was basically establishing the holiness of statements of people as trustworthy as Peter, who denied Christ only a bit earlier.


I don't believe or mean to imply these men were little gods or anything. They were inspired only in their writings and gifted by the HS for the beginning of the church. They have no other writings outside of scripture. They were ordinary men that God used for a purpose to accomplish what he wanted. Remember God says that he choses the weak things of this world to confound the wise. We would chose differently. We would look for the brightest and the best. God doesn't look at the outside...he looks at the heart. He doesn't want a self made man...he wants one that will listen to his words. A man after his heart

You have to assume that when they talk about 'scripture', that they knew you'd assume they meant the Bible, which didn't exist for a long time after. Most certainly what they read and called scripture wasn't very similar at all to our Old Testament, so we have to assume they meant our scripture, and not theirs.


When they were talking scriptures they were talking OT. That's all that was around then. That's why you see them quoting the OT all the time. Basically saying the OT was telling the truth and we testify of this. Jesus is the promised one the OT scriptures promised. The bible is just the books put all together. Bible is biblios which means "little books."

In reality not only did the Bible not exist, many of the books didn't, and many books that they might have known might not have been included.


Not sure what you mean here. The bible as we know it now is a collection of the OT writings that Jesus as well as the NT writers quoted from. It wasn't called the "bible" but it was protected and preserved to be collected in the form of a canon later. By the time John died...all the books were written. So by 90-95 AD or so they were all there. The letters of Paul were circulating the churches at the time.

What do you do with 2 Peter 3:14-16? Notice the word "his epistles" in v16? Basically Peter here is putting Pauls epistles on a par with the other scriptures.

You are attributing great power to these folks. To me, if such a plan had been in the works, we'd have had some clue of it. As it stands, there are a lot of assumptions there that Timothy might not have wanted you to make.


No the power belongs to God. He as Timothy wrote and I showed you Jesus did "breathe" on them. It was the power of the HS. They had no special powers. God moved in their hearts and minds to put his words on paper. Jesus said this would happen and all things would come into their rememberance when he left them.

I believe just like the OT scriptures came true in the person of Christ. The NT ones will as well. Actually I see truth everyday when I read it. The things written are so true. The words do not ring hollow.

If you want to call God the author, and believe that every word in it is perfect, I respect your right to do so


Thank you. That's the first time I've really heard that here. I appreciate that.

Shalom!!
Reply #55 Top
If you want to call God the author, and believe that every word in it is perfect, I respect your right to do so


Thank you. That's the first time I've really heard that here. I appreciate that.


I've said that also only I pointed out that you can't prove it is so. You can believe it, you absolutely have the right to believe it, but you can't prove it any more than others can prove you are incorrect. I have never once said you are wrong in your belief. I merely pointed out that you can't prove it.

There is nothing that I can prove about my religious beliefs and I certainly can't disprove anyone else's. And whether you will admit it or not, we are all in the same boat in that respect.
Reply #56 Top
Did they really ever consider that their words would be called "scripture" and if they had known, would they have bet people's souls on such being infallible? I tend to think not.


Again Peter called Paul's writings scriptures and put on par with the OT writings.

"As also in all his epistles (Paul)speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to be understood which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction."

I see Peter clearly saying that just like they wrestle with the OT scriptures they also will with Paul's scriptures and to their own destruction.

What about 2 Tim 3:15? "And from a child you have known the holy scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

I don't think it's any different today. Scriptures make us wise. They teach us what we need to know about Christ. Paul said...follow me as I follow Christ. Why would it be different for us today?
Reply #57 Top
"By the time Jesus was walking the earth the OT scriptures were gathered all together..."


Yet the OT that you hold is not the same one they held in Jesus's time.

The Hebrew OT that Josephus refers to includes 22 books. One of the things the Pharisees used to argue about was whether certain books were inspired or just history. The first reference we have to the 24 book Hebrew canon isn't until a couple of centuries after Jesus's death. Even now, our protestant OT has 39 books, not 24, since we busted things up a bit.

In addition, the wording of our OT is not the same as that of the Torah. You would say "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and yet we find the Torah to be translated as "Thou shalt not (or sometimes 'do no') murder." Really Big Difference.

When we are talking about every word being perfect, which ones do they mean? We can just look at the Hebrew Torah and see that we changed things after Jesus. How did those they were addressing know to go with our 'perfect' modern version and not what they had, since it didn't exist yet?

"By the time John died...all the books were written. So by 90-95 AD or so they were all there. The letters of Paul were circulating the churches at the time."


Even if you could prove that the books of the New Testament existed as they are now, sans translation, you're still saying that the authors were attesting to material that wasn't written when they said what you quoted. There's probably no way Timothy would have been able to attest to the perfection of the Revelation of John since most believe it was written after he was killed, and certainly after what you quoted.

He might have had faith that John would do a good job, but a couple of apostles had surprised them before, too. Dicey in terms of gambling the souls of millions for thousands of years thereafter. Even if our dates are wrong, how could they have said these things after all the books were finished, unless they went back in and added their assertions?

There was no collected "New Testament" as we would recognize it until the 300's, and frankly people disagreed on what should be in there for hundreds of years thereafter, as the Pharisees had before them about the OT. So just saying 'scriptures' would have been interpreted as what you bumped into, and many popular works of the time were rejected later when they made the Old and New Testament.

As I said, there's no reason you can't believe what you do. You can't justify it with anything but faith, though. When you start saying that you can prove it WITH scripture, you open the floodgates for discussions like we are having here. That's something you just believe in SPITE of your logic.

Then, when details are questioned, all you really have to say is "Nope, I don't understand why that appears to be wrong, but it isn't since the Bible is perfect"... which drives people mad with annoyance.

At that point, no matter where your 'still small voice' leads you, you have to work within the constraints of a book that you have no evidence, whatsoever, is infallible. Can you see how dangerous, and frankly idolatrous that that appears to be to me and others? Can you see how everything, from holy inspiration to your own conscience suddenly becomes secondary to The Word, since in the end anything that defies it is wrong.

That's why people, when they saw "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", swallowed their conscience and did what they saw in black and white. Ugly things can happen.
Reply #58 Top
Wait, sorry, brain fart.

When you said Timothy, I assumed you meant Timothy said that, and in reality the Timothy I and II are really letters TO Timothy, aren't they? Attributed to Paul? So I guess it would have been Paul, and not Timothy. I see now you were referring to the book Timothy, and not the person.

But my point would stand anyway, regardless. In order for them to attest to the perfection of the New Testament, they'd have had to read it all, and unless they all got together to proofread first, and then sign off on it, I dunno how they could have since they sign off on it IN the New Testament.

Given that it had to be translated much later, only faith can lead you to the belief that they knew what it was going to be before it actually became what it is. The facts would lead you to other conclusions.
Reply #59 Top
In addition, the wording of our OT is not the same as that of the Torah. You would say "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and yet we find the Torah to be translated as "Thou shalt not (or sometimes 'do no') murder." Really Big Difference.


BakerStreet, That is a ENORMOUS difference. I just want to really emphasize your point here.

One thing that I am finding interesting and I am not sure if you will agree with me on this is our ability to comprehend. Everything we read, everything we say, everything we do, and everything we hear are all processed with a relational database of our own personal experiences and a collective non-internal experiences. It is hard to see the other side of things when we have not gone through it. I will not ever truly understand what it is like to grow up in a physically abusive house. I can only take what someone tells me about their experience in it add that with many other testimonies make a collective non-internal experiences including observations and try to create a picture of what it is like but I will not be able to duplicate one's experience. This is also true about scriptures. I grew up with the impression that the father's of the OT were these GREAT MEN OF G-D! Now after a period of walking away and living my own way coming back, I no longer see them the same way. Abraham a great man of faith doubted G-D. Jacob was a man who was VERY unsure about what he believed. As my experiences have changed so have my views of scripture. Not sure what you all agree with me on this.

AD
Reply #60 Top
KFC and Baker, really good debate! Kudos.

only faith can lead you to the belief that they knew what it was going to be before it actually became what it is. The facts would lead you to other conclusions.


Faith can and has lead people to different conclusions for as long as the bible has been around. That is why I always get sick of people assuming I haven't read it merely because I have different opinions concerning it. Whether I agree with someone's faith or not, I respect them if they live according to their faith.

KFC, you sound like someone who practices what they preach. I commend you for that. I don't even blame devout christians for evangelizing. That doesn't mean I have to like it though

The way I see the contradictions brought up in this blog, they can't be reconciled without faith. You have to have faith in order to make assertions that lead you to believe that it all "works together". If you are going strictly by logic and strictly by what is actually printed, they don't add up.
Reply #61 Top
"The way I see the contradictions brought up in this blog, they can't be reconciled without faith. You have to have faith in order to make assertions that lead you to believe that it all "works together". If you are going strictly by logic and strictly by what is actually printed, they don't add up."


It's really faith either way. When you pick up a history book to study for a test, you have to believe that the stuff within is at least reasonably accurate or you are wasting your time. None of us on our own can really go back and prove that the battle of hastings occured withougt relying on someone else's historical testimony.

People who don't believe in the inerrancy of the Bible are trusting their understanding of what the Bible says and their reason to tell them it doesn't jive. Others choose to doubt their own facilities and accept what they consider to be more authoritative, the Bible.

To me, the only people who are totally devoid of logic in the whole mess are the people who don't bother to look at it and dismiss it offhand. They've rejected the possibility of gleaning what good they can from it, and frankly they've made a decisions based on nothing more than emotional bias. To me, that's no different than someone who would believe it blindly without reading it themselves.
Reply #62 Top
To me, the only people who are totally devoid of logic in the whole mess are the people who don't bother to look at it and dismiss it offhand. They've rejected the possibility of gleaning what good they can from it, and frankly they've made a decisions based on nothing more than emotional bias. To me, that's no different than someone who would believe it blindly without reading it themselves.


I totally agree. I think there are plenty of people who are only looking for "problems" in it. But there are also people who don't see things because they accepted it as perfect before ever picking it up.

When you pick up a history book to study for a test, you have to believe that the stuff within is at least reasonably accurate or you are wasting your time.


Sure, but no history test I have ever taken claimed I would go to hell if I didn't understand the text;) Also, if you wanted to delve into the battle of Hastings enough, you could find a trail of evidence to support the events that were claimed to have happened in the book.

I don't have faith that everything I hear or read about dinosaurs is true. We learn more about their remains and more about our planet all the time. That is why scientists usually say "we now think that____________ is true about the dinosaurs." If they say matter of factly anything that they don't have verifiable physical evidence of, you have to question if it is accurate or not.
Reply #63 Top
"Sure, but no history test I have ever taken claimed I would go to hell if I didn't understand the text;)


Depends on what your idea of hell is. I had plenty of teachers tell me I was going to end up making fast food, and, frankly I've worked in fast food before. Choosing between that and hell wouldn't be a tough choice, but it would be a crappy choice.

Also, if you wanted to delve into the battle of Hastings enough, you could find a trail of evidence to support the events that were claimed to have happened in the book."


But every shred of it would be reliant on what someone before you wrote about it, not unlike the work of many people between Jesus and us that ended up being the Bible. Beyond that it's just relics detatched from unrecorded events. As you say, a lot more rides on our understanding of God, and that's why I think there's a lot more built into us than blind faith in words and ink can accomplish.
Reply #64 Top
Choosing between that and hell wouldn't be a tough choice, but it would be a crappy choice




As you say, a lot more rides on our understanding of God, and that's why I think there's a lot more built into us than blind faith in words and ink can accomplish.


Exactly! History books are merely a tool to help understand the world around us. I personally choose to trust history books because I don't believe in reinventing the wheel (i.e. having to go back and research every historical fact myself). Also, probably the only historical facts that would have a true impact on my day-to-day life are recent enough for me to find pictures and physical evidence, and possibly even eyewitnesses or video footage of. In other words, there is that much in my life that I truly need to merely trust. There is a tremendous amount of trust, faith involved with the bible.
Reply #65 Top
Depends on what your idea of hell is.


Absent from the presence of G-D. Can't think of anything is worse than that.
Reply #66 Top
Two things have always struck me about the Judas contradiction.

First, the best biblical scholars in the world, the interdenominational translation committees that produce the major versions of the Bible, have elected to keep both versions of the story: the one in Acts and the one in the gospels.

I figure, this isn't the decision of people with something to hide, or misgivings about the meaning of their work.

And second, that the core teachings of the Christian faith are totally unaffected by this ambiguity.

No matter how Judas died, and no matter what he did beforehand, the fundamental principles of the Christian faith remain the same. Even if the question of Judas' death remains ambiguous and unanswered, the foundation of Christianity remains as strong or as weak as before. I mean, if Judas died by hanging, or just by falling over and bursting open, either way it would not change the teachings of Christ.

What would interest me much more would be contradictions in Christ's own teaching on the nature of God and Man, the nature of their relationship, the nature of the Fall, and then mechanism of redemption.

If Christ contradicted himself, for example; or if Paul contradicted Christ; or if Paul and Peter contradicted each other, regarding the fundamental principles of the faith? Now that would be a serious thing.


As it is, it seems to me that the translators have been saying, for probably about a thousand years or so now, that we're pretty clear and consistent on what Christ taught and what it means. About the minor footnote of Judas' demise we're not too sure. There's a couple different versions, from equally reliable sources and we've opted to include them both, for completeness.


If you're going to study the validity of the Christian teachings, the place to start is with the teachings of Christ himself, not the tangential (and, frankly, irrelevant) story of Judas' death.
Reply #67 Top
KFC and Baker, really good debate! Kudos.


Thanks Jill.

KFC, you sound like someone who practices what they preach. I commend you for that. I don't even blame devout christians for evangelizing. That doesn't mean I have to like it though

The way I see the contradictions brought up in this blog, they can't be reconciled without faith. You have to have faith in order to make assertions that lead you to believe that it all "works together".


I try. Very true. Faith is the glue that holds it all together.

Sure, but no history test I have ever taken claimed I would go to hell if I didn't understand the text;)


Did someone say this? I believe you can go to heaven without even opening up the book. I believe that. You can go to hell even if you are a devout bible reader. It has nothing to do with reading God's word or not. It has all to do with what you do with it and with the knowledge he has given you.

Absent from the presence of G-D. Can't think of anything is worse than that.


Yes, I believe being separated from God at death is going to be a very dark place.
Reply #68 Top
Sure, but no history test I have ever taken claimed I would go to hell if I didn't understand the text;)


Did someone say this?


You must have taken it out of context and not realized that the semi colon, parenthesis was meant as a wink. For some reason the smiley didn't show up but that is how smileys were represented before we had the pictures. They make it a lot easier to tell if someone is being totally serious or is saying things in jest.
Reply #69 Top
Depends on what your idea of hell is.


Absent from the presence of G-D. Can't think of anything is worse than that.


I don't know. I am not afraid of just blinking out of existence. Eternal pain and torture would be the worst thing I could think of but I don't know a lot of sins that would warrant that.

I can understand being with God as being a reward but simply not existing anymore isn't really a thing to fear as far as I'm concerned. I tend to believe we experience hell right here on Earth. I find it interesting how many different opinions there are on what heaven and hell entail.
Reply #70 Top
Perhaps when they say he spilled his bowels it's a euphemism for 'he shat himself.'


That's an interesting interpretation! Why not? People lose their bladder and bowels when they die.
Reply #71 Top
usually use Noah's Ark as the litmus test. Anyone who believes it happened as literally described in the bible is someone who has not been on the same journey as I have (to put it mildly).


Two comments I'd like to make here. While I find the concept of a global flood unlikely (remember, that to writers in these times "the whole world" usually meant the whole world to their rather limited knowledge), I would have to state that it was probably an especially memorable an atypical flood in size, to say the least.

The other comment revolves around the use of "forty days and forty nights". That was an ancient Hebrew euphemism for "no one knows exactly HOW long", not necessarily a LITERAL forty days and nights.
Reply #72 Top
While I find the concept of a global flood unlikely (remember, that to writers in these times "the whole world" usually meant the whole world to their rather limited knowledge), I would have to state that it was probably an especially memorable an atypical flood in size, to say the least.


Well got a question for ya then. Why did he build the boat? If it was local and not global why didn't he just walk to higher ground? It took him 120 years to build this boat.

Remember the Tusnami in Indonesia? There were no dead animals floating around. That's because they had all fled to higher ground. The only animals they found were mostly household ones.

I actually think what happened during the Tsnami could maybe be an explanation as to how God rounded up the animals for Noah.

The boat and the flood I never doubted. I just wondered before how he could get all those animals in the boat.
Reply #73 Top
"That's because they had all fled to higher ground.


Think you are mistaken about that. I read about a LOT of drowned animals. Children were killed because when water rushed away they ran forward to pick up fish. A tsunami isn't like a rainstorm. The only warning you have is the wave just before it hits you.

It still wouldn't explain why all the freshwater animals didn't die. Once the oceans covered the earth, animals that require fresh water wouldn't have been able to stand it.

I think it is obvious that "world" to people of that time was their locale. All the land they could travel to in a week or two. All the animals in the world would be comprised of all the animals in such an area, and the ones that the people of that time were aware of.

Just like Adam and Eve's sons went off into another land to find wives.
Reply #74 Top
Think you are mistaken about that. I read about a LOT of drowned animals. Children were killed because when water rushed away they ran forward to pick up fish. A tsunami isn't like a rainstorm. The only warning you have is the wave just before it hits you.


I agree except the warning, although most don't see it, is the recession of the water. It is drawn way back, and like you said, the kids can rush out and grab fish. Some animals were able to flee to higher ground and so were some people. There were a lot of dead animals though.

I agree with Baker's take on the story.
Reply #75 Top
What Peter was saying was that scripture interprets itself


KFC, are you talking about interpreting verses literally? What about verses like Mt 5:29-30 : “If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away … And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away”

Where do we draw the line regarding Biblical literalism and how are we meant to interpret it? Mt 5:29-30, Job: 25: 6, Genesis 1? In my view, we can’t escape subjectivity when it comes to interpreting the Bible, because everyone who picks it up has different views and opinions in the first place.

2 Peter 1:20. "Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


Even this verse is open to interpretation. The Good News Bible, for example, says “Above all else, however, remember that no one can explain by himself or herself a prophecy in the Scriptures.” (2 Peter 1:20)

I think that at the end of the day, we need to find peace with our own interpretations and views, and we can keep an open mind to everyone else's views. (Or maybe we just like the drama too much, which isn't a bad thing)