lulapilgrim

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KFC POSTS: nowhwere does it say...."thou art Peter and your successors.... upon this rock I will build my church.... even if you believe Peter is the Rock; the one to start the CC...nowhere does it say that his successors would carry on. With all due respect to you, KFC, you have been blind sighted by Protestant oral tradition. The doctrine of Apostolic succession is yet another one that the Protestant forefathers, Luther and C

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OF LULAPILGRIM'S POST: have you noticed whenever Christ speaks of His Church, it is always in the singular. You are well navigated Bible reader. Here He said, “I have built My Church upon a rock”---not My churches. Or when He said, “Hear the Church”----not hear the churches. He established one Church, not thousands of churches. KFC POSTS: *banging my head against the wall*.....it's singular because the church is HIS BODY. He has ONE body. Lik

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KFC POSTS: you will not find...."you Cephas" anywhere in the Gk. Is it in the CC version or the Latin Vulgate? We know Christ spoke in Aramaic. He said, Thou art "Kepha" and upon this "Kepha", I will build My Church." It was becasue Christ used the word "Kepha" that we sometimes see Peter called "Cephas" which is a Greek translation of the Aramaic word itself. As for the use of "Cephas" in the Douay Rheims version, I found tha

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KFC POSTS: you Cephas, are the ‘rock’ upon which I will build My Church. All the rest of his followers understood this as well. Indeed, Peter acted in that capacity and exhibited that authority as well. you will not find...."you Cephas" anywhere in the Gk. Is it in the CC version or the Latin Vulgate BAKERSTREET POSTS: "John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: th

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SEAN CONNERS POSTS: then, on another level...why wouldn't christ just tell him and the other apostles that pete is "in charge." why must it be a vague metaphorical reference that no one else hears? Christ told Peter that he was “in charge” as you say, or the special head, when He told him, “you Cephas, are the ‘rock’ upon which I will build My Church. All the rest of his followers understood this as well. Indeed, Peter acted in that capacit

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BAKERSTREET POSTS ON JAN. 30: But doctrinally and morally the people who are in charge of the church have not been infallible. AND AGAIN ON JAN. 30: I’m not even arguing against it as much as I am addressing a limited set of its propositions. Like the infallibility of the Church. To me Lula’s perspective sets up a situation where everyone in the faith could go off and be totally evil, from the Pope down, but the “Church” would still be infallible

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BAKERSTREET POSTS ON JAN.30 I'm just wondering what the "Church" in that sense is composed of. As she says, it isn't the buildings or the vestments, either. There seems to be another entity of some sort, or just the "idea" of the Church. Functionally, it seems like that just allows a religion to do everything it wants and still retain the purity. By, george, Bakerstreet, I think you're getting it. In a comment or two before this, I said

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BAERSTREET POSTS: And what Lula won't admit is that they DID reform their "infallible" doctrine after Luther, addressing one of Luther's biggest gripes, the sale of indulgences, at the Council of Trent. Reform is a problem for Lula, because each time Catholics have to explain why that particular edict wasn't infallible. yes, I did admit that the Church reformed, look back to the earlier posting of mine when I said: "Sale of

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SEAN CONNERS POSTS: and on another level...if (for sake of argument) we accept this "promotion" for peter, in the very next verse, he takes it back. Are you referring to St. Mark 8:31-33? "And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. 32 And he said this plainly. And Peter took him and began to reb

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And the beat goes on...........Is seems that truth is finally begun to emerge with the canonization process of Pius XII, which was opened by Pope John Paul II. As an addendum to my comments on Pope Pius XII, I would like to add in a recent issue of the National Review Online, a former high ranking KGB officer, General Ion Mihal Pacepa, who defected from the Soviet bloc, recounts how the Kremlin and KGB in the 60’s were set on executing a sme

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KFC POSTS: Here in our town, a lady set up a clinic to help unwed mothers keep her babies. She's enlisted the help of area churches to help finanicially, emotionally, physically and every which way. It's not about religion but about putting your belief where your mouth is. It's where the rubber meets the road. Her goal is to keep babies from being aborted. We have signed on board to help her. I just found out that while the local E.A.S CC was very inte

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KFC POSTS: Lula, while I LOVE your dedication and your tenacity, I believe it's misplaced. Of course the CC is going to say Peter is the beginning of the CC. Have you ever read the reformers? They think otherwise. Calvin was a Catholic Priest. Have you ever read his refutation to what you're saying? How about Luther? He was very dedicated...one of the best. Have you ever read his refutation either? There are others as well. You are buying what you've b

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KFC Posted: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 The church would be built based on the cofession of Peter. "You are the Christ, the son of the Living God." basically saying...."you are the rock." KFC Posted: Thursday, February 01, 2007 Lula and I disagree. She, of course, believes the confession of Peter in Matt 16 delegates Peter as the rock the church of Christ is built upon. This is the basis for the Catholic Church being the true church. I s

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BAKERSTREET POSTS: No, again, infallibility means: 1 : incapable of error : UNERRING 2 : not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint : CERTAIN 3 : incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals It looks to me as though your definintion #3 is the way I described the certain conditions for papal infallibility. Except I don't quite get the "touching" part of definition #3! Perhaps, you can clarify

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KFC POSTS: on that rock i shall build my church" line as referring to building it on the individual rather than the structure and organized hierarchal church that he tore down and stood against. exactly....hey we agree on sumptin. I'd go one step further tho and say the church was built on HIM. He is the rock. Upon this rock.....himself. If you just take a concordance and look up rock you'd see especially in the Psalms God is always the

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BAKERSTREET POSTS: But doctrinally and morally the people who are in charge of the church have not been infallible. Papal infallibility does not mean the the Pope cannot make a mistake or commit a sin, or that he can teach without error on any subject or that he is inspired by God. It means that under certain conditions, very specific conditions the Pope when speaking officially, is preserved from error, namely: When he speak

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I'm hesitant to get into a discussion with you concerning "Indulgences" because you don't understand infallibility.....yet. And here you are attempting to disparage the authority of the Pope using the doctrine of Indulgences. I'm not a betting woman, but if I were, I'm betting that you don't even understand the doctrine of Indulgences or really care to either. Nevertheless..................... "Sale of indulgences"......Oh, c'mon, Indulgences

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BAKERSTREET POSTS: Maybe we are differing on the definition of infallible. That's what I'm thinking too. I shall as soon as I can explain the charism of infallibility of the Church as soon as I can get all my info together on it. It may be a while though. No, Bakerstreet, the CC is not the buildings. Any more than the mosque is Islam. When I speak of the Church as divine or infallible, I mean the Faith. Christ established

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BAKERSTREET POSTS: The difference is, your reality is based upon your belief, and where reality departs from your belief, you reject reality. For that reason, the Church was never really responsible for violence and murder during what you still call the "holy" inquisition. They of course couldn't have been responsible for tens of thousands of people who were tortured or killed for witchcraft. I know well, Bakerstreet, that people loathe Ca

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BAKERSTREET POSTS: They most certainly have not had this 'life doctrine' since Peter. Throughout the dark and middle ages they were a different organization. With all due respect, you err Bakerstreet. The doctrines which make up the one, true, catholic and apostolic Church are not man-made. They were given her by CHrist , and can not or ever will be changed. The CC teaches all that Christ taught , whether His teaching was explicit or impl

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SEAN CONNERS WRITES: are you in the pews daily? do you volunteer for the church? how active are you? I would attend daily Mass, if I could. We have a small mission Church and our priest must travel 20 miles in order to celebrate Sunday Mass and one on Tuesdays that follows the Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament. I like to help out in the Church as much as I am able while mindful that my family and home comes first. </f

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SEAN CONNERS Writes: lula,,,what is your position in he catholic church? I am a lifelong member of the Catholic laity. Just a lady in the pews. ---------------------------------------------------------------- SEAN CONNERS WRITES: i should have remembered the nazi exception,,,,you are right, they caved there......... outside of supporting nazi's i can't find much in the modern era where the church has strayed from their life doct

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LARRY KUPERMAN writes: You said "The Catholic Church sees no justification to kill whatsoever. This has remained consistant since after the Crusades and the middle ages. And at least in the modern era, they have remined uberconsistant on their position." That is not true at all. To Sean Conners, Larry Kuperman and anyone else interested-------I would advise reading Pg. 2267 of the Catechism of the CC which covers the Church’s philosophy on the