After Hamas takes over, What?

Another radical Middle East government?

http://www.weblogpage.com/robswan
from JoeUser Forums
I am not an expert on the Middle East but two thoughts went through my mind upon hearing of Hamas' almost certain victory in the Palestinian elections:
Firstly, I was completely negative. I worry that Hamas will become a third radical government in the Middle East (with Syria and Iran---which is almost Middle East). I considered that perhaps these States were becoming radically altered in their mindset due to anti-US sentiment and that their peoples were rebelling against the authority of George Bush due to his Iraq venture. A radical Middle East could upset the balance of power in the region and, God forbid, put the US and its allies into a really awkward position. Imagine, if you will, the Arab states rising up against the West. It will not be a small problem, especially when we consider that the US is so committed in Iraq (manpower could be very stretched!).

Secondly, I thought, optimistically, that Hamas might come to its senses once in power (They say they cannot deal with Israel but how can they avoid it?). Perhaps when they look at the big picture they will become more responsible and rein in their bombers and radical fighters. Perhaps Hamas will form a responsible government that can influence the masses and calm them. Perhaps Hamas will become the New Hamas?

I could be in cloud cuckoo land, but for the sake of peace, I hope I'm not.
4,748 views 29 replies
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hamas already stated in their revised manifesto that Israel has a right to exist. Taking that into account, we can be certain that there will be other changes in their outlook.
The ball is now in Israel's court, so to speak, to make changes in their outlook, giving the Palestinian State the right to exist as well.
There will be peace and there will be cooperation, neither side has any other choice.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

Glenn Beck likened it to when Jimmy Carter Was elected.

That was bad enough.

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Jimmy Carter


was one of the international 'observers' of the election here yesterday....
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Hamas already stated in their revised manifesto that Israel has a right to exist.


I haven't heard anything like that.

And the ball is definitely not in Israel's court. In fact, the game is over.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am glad Hamas has won. Hamas will want a war and this will give Israel the excuse to wipe that disgusting little pimple 'Palestine' off the map once and for all!
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
[
Hamas already stated in their revised manifesto that Israel has a right to exist.


Pour la fidélité, c'est loin de la vérité... Dernièrement, un des leaders du Hamas a déclaré qu'il es impensable pour Hamas de reconnaitre l'état d'Israel et que c'est l'apanage des futures générations, mais qu'ils sont prêts pour accepter une trêve de plusieurs années, voire parvenir un accord, "sans le reconnaitre"... Nuance donc!
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
uklays ikelay ewjays aray ecrewesay. arway orfay usrsha.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Pour la fidélité, c'est loin de la vérité... Dernièrement, un des leaders du Hamas a déclaré qu'il es impensable pour Hamas de reconnaitre l'état d'Israel et que c'est l'apanage des futures générations, mais qu'ils sont prêts pour accepter une trêve de plusieurs années, voire parvenir un accord, "sans le reconnaitre"... Nuance donc!


Yes, but what if the toaster doesn't make it in time and we need new tires?

No, seriously, what exactly is a cease-fire without recognition? With whom will they have the cease-fire? Jews in general? And what is the future for them? A forever-occupied Arab Palestine? What do they think they have gained today?
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
This shows that the Bush idea that all we need is a democratic vote in the Middle East is not true. He got a democratic vote and 60% of the delegates were chosen that are from a group that support terrorism. How do you say we need the people to choose and then be unable to deal with the leaders that were selected in this democratic vote! Iraq may be another example where the government that results from a democratic vote is like the government in Iran.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
oh good!!! I didn;t ssee this thread.

Firstly, the ball is STILL in Palestine's court because know one knows what to make of this. Isreal can't really say much because it doesn't know what Hamas or even Abbas will do if there are problems.

Everybody is like, what does this mean??? Is Hamas a 'terrorist group' or is it now a 'terrorist nation' because they are in control of it? What is what here? What will Hamas do? Isreal can't really react to the vote until it has something to react to.

In fact no one can really say much until Hamas and the new government shows its colors.


One thing though, if Hamas involves itself in terrorism, it could be considered an act of war instead of some outside group doing stuff. Abbas can only do so much without civil war.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Doesn't matter what Hamas does any more than it matters what al Qaeda does. Hamas has already done what they have done. We don't hire child molesters as babysitters to see what they'll do, and we don't negotiate with terrorists to see what they will do either. At least I hope we don't, though Jimmy Carter seems to be able to shake hands with anyone...
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
we don't negotiate with terrorists to see what they will do either. At least I hope we don't, though Jimmy Carter seems to be able to shake hands with anyone


these two statements are so enticing...but i'm gonna rise above em. (altho i guess nothin more need be said )

having barely managed to make my way beyond that...and bearing in mind i have absolutely no use for the taliban, hezbollah, al quaeda, hamas, etc., it occurs to me 18th century european monarchs prolly considered the revolting colonists just as loathsome and dangerous.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
My point - The process that Bush is embracing to reduce terrorism in the Middle East is bringing groups into power that support terrorism via the ballot box. Four countries have recently held elections that Bush has supported and in every case the people elected are supportive of terrorism. It seems to me that we need to look at the basic argument. Today Hamas said "Respect the results of the election" in Palestine. WE have two opposing principals facing each other. We do not deal with terrorists. We support the peoples' right to select their representatives in an election. We got what the Bush policy supports-- Free Elections and now do not want to deal with the results of that same election!
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Colgene, get over yourself. Somehow I doubt the average Palistinian even had Prs. Bush in mind when they voted. Like most, they probably voted with their own self interest in mind. Not everyone shares your pathetically mindless "In all things Bash Bush" myopic view of the world.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
The issue is NOT what the Palestinians think about Bush. The issue is WHAT POLICY SHOULD WE FOLLOW? To continue to follow a policy that is NOT WORKING is not smart. This has nothing to do with bashing Bush. It has EVERYTHING to do with accepting reality! You and others on JoeUser seem to be like Bush in that you NEVER look at reality and make choices biased on the results. Bush has said many times, judge by results. I AGREE. Let’s do just that!
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Colgene, sadly, every breath you take seems to be about nothing but bash Bush.. which is why there is no reason for anyone to care what you have to say.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Every answer you and others on this Blog site provide is, "All you do is Bash Bush” That is your term. The issue is that OUR policy (Like that better then the Bush policy) IS NOT WORKING. What do we do now? That is the same question about OUR Energy Policy, Fiscal Policy, and Immigration Policy. OUR POLICIES ARE NOT producing solutions!
WHY would anyone continue doing something that is not producing results?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
1. Pour la victoire du Hamas, il faut signaler que le Hamas n'a pas participé aux dernières ligislatives. J'estime que c'est un changement de cap positive de la vie politique palestinienne. Hamas entre dans le jeu car sa position n'a cessé de s'affermir, notamment grâce à ses activités caritatives, et ne cessera de le faire, surtout dans les municipalités conquises, alors que le Fatah était et reste pénalisé par l'arrêt des négociations avec Israël...

2. Au sein du Hamas, il y a au moins deux lignes qui s’affrontent. L’une, pragmatique, veut assumer des responsabilités politiques. L’autre, plus idéologique, se refuse à toute perspective de négociation avec Israël. Je crois que cette deuxième aile, jusque-là majoritaire, est en train de perdre du terrain. Il est souhaitable que le Hamas puisse accéder à toutes les responsabilités, qu’il ne se contente pas de slogans tout faits mais improductifs, qu’il devienne une force de propositions. Si le Hamas est associé à l’exécutif, et donc à la reprise du dialogue avec les Israéliens, les rapports avec Israël seront totalement modifiés. C’est d’ailleurs pourquoi les Israéliens tentent de bloquer la participation de ce parti aux élections, interdisant à ses candidats de faire campagne à Jérusalem-Est. Bien sûr, le gouvernement israélien le considère comme un ennemi, une organisation terroriste, mais il comprend surtout l’enjeu fondamental de ces élections : l’exécutif qui sortira des urnes pourra être encore plus légitime, représentant au plus près la diversité palestinienne. On sait fort bien que lorsque des mouvements de l’islam politique sont intégrés à la prise de décision, ils se banalisent. Ce qui ne peut que renforcer la démocratie palestinienne. Et change la donne d’une reprise de dialogue entre l’Autorité palestinienne et Israël, qui, si elle a lieu, se fera sous l’égide de la communauté internationale, puisque, avec l’abandon de la feuille de route, l’État hébreu a adopté une ligne de conduite unilatérale, imposant ses conditions...

3.La communauté internationale adopte une attitude ambiguë. D’un côté, l’Union européenne envisage de réduire ses aides si le Hamas venait à être élu. De l’autre, la Banque mondiale a décidé de ne pas allouer les fonds prévus à l’Autorité palestinienne, pour le mois de décembre, mettant alors en difficulté Mahmoud Abbas.
C’est une logique infernale, aux conséquences potentielles importantes, outre le renforcement du Hamas. Une étape supplémentaire est franchie dans la déstructuration de la société palestinienne, qui vit sous perfusion internationale. Bloquer les fonds de l’Autorité palestinienne en fonction des résultats d’élections démocratiques est non seulement condamnable sur un plan éthique (voilà qui revient à priver de leurs revenus des dizaines de milliers de familles), mais aussi contre-productif, si l’on considère les objectifs politiques poursuivis par la communauté internationale. Il y a cependant une logique : vouloir façonner la société palestinienne sur le modèle du Grand Moyen-Orient à la Bush. Et, pourtant, quand des élections ont lieu dans cette région, et qu’elles tendent à être démocratique, les islamistes, dont le Hamas, progressent. Ces mouvements représentent de plus en plus l’aspiration à un changement politique...

Blogalement votre !
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

At least I hope we don't, though Jimmy Carter seems to be able to shake hands with anyone...

At least he is good at something!  He sucked as a president.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

it occurs to me 18th century european monarchs prolly considered the revolting colonists just as loathsome and dangerous.

We can only hope!

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hamas already stated in their revised manifesto that Israel has a right to exist. Taking that into account, we can be certain that there will be other changes in their outlook.
The ball is now in Israel's court, so to speak, to make changes in their outlook, giving the Palestinian State the right to exist as well.
There will be peace and there will be cooperation, neither side has any other choice.


I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we?
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
This shows that the Bush idea that all we need is a democratic vote in the Middle East is not true. He got a democratic vote and 60% of the delegates were chosen that are from a group that support terrorism. How do you say we need the people to choose and then be unable to deal with the leaders that were selected in this democratic vote! Iraq may be another example where the government that results from a democratic vote is like the government in Iran.


Hey klink....do you even know how to stay on topic? And in doing so staying off GW's back? What he has done in the Middle East has NOTHING to do with this.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler
My post has EVERYTHING to do with the policy we are following. Bush supported the vote in Palestine just like he supported the vote in Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon. In all FOUR cases the vote gave power to our enemies. You are to dumb to understand the approach Bush is using with the Islamic world IS NOT WORKING! That gives you and Bush something in common!
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
drmiler
My post has EVERYTHING to do with the policy we are following. Bush supported the vote in Palestine just like he supported the vote in Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon. In all FOUR cases the vote gave power to our enemies. You are to dumb to understand the approach Bush is using with the Islamic world IS NOT WORKING! That gives you and Bush something in common!


Yes your post does. However that is NOT on topic is it? The topic at hand is NOT about US policy. The topic is about what happens after Hamas takes over. Ignorant putz!