WOM WOM

The New School Prayer

▼

The New School Prayer

from WinCustomize Forums



Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.
It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

From watching whats on the news now a days, thought this made a lot of sense.

61,601 views 152 replies
Reply #126 from WinCustomize Forums Top
If one religion is allowed, then all others should be. Why suspend one school of thought for another? All in all, for me it is a quest for answers to a question: how best should I live my life amoungst the masses? A majority of answers come swiftly from experience, others take a little guidance. Whether this guidance is in the form of Scriptures from the New or Old Testament, or from the Dalhi Lama, or even Lao Tzu, Neizche or Voltaire; answers is what I look for.

As for "we shouldn't teach things that may or may not be true, when there is no evidence...", if we don't give the opportunity to think, no questions are asked, no thought is provoked and no real experience is gained.

The poem in the original post is about a young person who feels lost, has no direction to turn for fear of loosing more ground. This young person observes that 100 year old American traditions are being admonished by disgruntled people of another faith, or even the same faith. While we debate whether morality is based in religion only, it is mutable as are the times. If the Bible were to be modified to fit the era, we might all see things in different light than now. But for now, should the schools be left a place of learning and not a religious battlefield?

In my opinion, the "Pledge of Alligiance" should not be changed. Our Dollar should not be changed. My thinking being that if we, as a nation, succumb and change what has been our symbols throughout the life of our nation, we will show the more malignant nations that we are weaker than we portray. And the Commandmants should be left in front of the courthouse, some of our laws come straight from the Book.

I am not a church going Christian. I have been a member of 2 very different churchs. But I don't believe that I like the fact that what is preached is preached to a people that lived many an era ago. I do think that people can get well along with one another without the need to be preached to. Others may find that without that, they cannot live quietly. I will not base my life on any one single thought, I am diverse, as are the experiences in my life. I will compile my belief from that of many.

So, what would you say to the person that wrote the poem? Would you comfort them? Explain that they don't need that silly stuff? Would you try and convert what little belief they might have left?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...?

nighty night for now.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
Reply #127 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Peace
We can agree to disagree about Christianity / existence of God / life. But I think, as Adamness said, there should be seperation between government and religion, giving us the freedom to worship as we wish.

Rock on!!
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #128 from WinCustomize Forums Top
...and I would like to thank RabidRobot, Adamness, Starkers, Scorpio, Kona, EventHorizon and the others for a very engaging debate / discussion. Nice to know it can be done without underhanded ad hominem abusives.
Reply #129 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think the person who wrote the poem is flat wrong. They were basically saying that any display of religion or spirituality is banned from schools, which isn't true at all. When I was in high school, people used to pray a lot. There were a couple Christian youth groups, there was a Jewish group, which I was actually in, and there was a group of Muslims that prayed in the library throughout the day. I was friend with people in all the religious groups, and none of them felt as if they were being restricted. And I'm sure it's a similar situation in many, many other schools around the country.

The only thing that is banned, in terms of religion, is for the school to teach a religion, or to lead prayer, or to support atheism. Schools, and the government as a whole should be completely neutral when it comes to religion and sprituality, or lack thereof.

Obviously the person who wrote the poem doesn't know their rights and feels discriminated against. And yet, it is clear that the author thinks that colored hair, piercings, profanity, pre-marital sex and witches should be banned, or at least looked down upon.

I don't want to offend anyone here who agrees with this poem, but the author is just as prejudiced as they feel the schools are. Crazy hair and tattoos don't affect anyone but the person wearing them, while the school having forced prayer or whatnot affects everyone, and is illegal.

Crazy hair and profanity and piercings are protected under the Bill of Rights, as is the right to pray. However for the government to have prayer in schools, would be the same thing as making everyone color their hair blue and get a nose ring.

As I said, if you want the government to establish religion, or to enforce prayer, get an amendment to the Constitution passed. And if you want crazy hair and pre-marital sex banned, then get another amendment passed.

Protecting our rights is important, but overprotecting them is dangerous.
Reply #130 from WinCustomize Forums Top
And thank you too SD
Reply #131 from WinCustomize Forums Top
OK let me explain my logic a bit more. To deny that something exists you must acknowledge it does exist first otherwise your denial is based on nothing. Hope that makes it easier to understand.


Your definition of word "deny" sure is different than mine.

Ok let's use different word. I believe that god is same as santa, tooth fairy or easter bunny. Basically, it's just a meme that has been around, changing a lot, for last thousands of years.

Based on google:

Definitions of deny on the Web:

declare untrue; contradict; "He denied the allegations"; "She denied that she had taken money"
refuse to accept or believe; "He denied his fatal illness"
refuse to grant, as of a petition or request; "The dean denied the students' request for more physics courses"; "the prisoners were denied the right to exercise for more than 2 hours a day"
refuse to let have; "She denies me every pleasure"; "he denies her her weekly allowance"
deny oneself (something); restrain, especially from indulging in some pleasure; "She denied herself wine and spirits"
traverse: deny formally (an allegation of fact by the opposing party) in a legal suit
refuse to recognize or acknowledge; "Peter denied Jesus"

Apparently, I used the first meaning while you used the second meaning.
Reply #132 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Some of you may feel that my vision is blurred or impeded because I do not live in the U.S, and therefore not directly affected by the events/changes occurring there.
However, here in OZ, we have lil Johnny with his cronies and cohorts doing precisely the same things.....amending the Australian Constitution to suit his own agenda.
If he were doing it for the common good, for Australian Citizens from all races, colours, creeds and backgrounds, I'd have no problem with it.....but he's simply not doing that.

I read here and in other sources that The U.S. Constitution is going through similar unwelcomed changes, so yeah, I can fully sympathise with those who are offended, disadvantaged and simply displaced by the decisions of political figures who have their heads up their arses and no idea of real issues affecting real people. As with our crowd in Parliament House in Canberra, your crowd on Captitol Hill can't see past the walls of their offices/assembly rooms, etc.

Now I'm not familiar with the U.S. Constitution, having not read through it properly, and I may or may not agree with some aspects, I don't know, but I still firmly believe that it is every U.S. Citizen's right to fight for and defend that Constitution, so that it may not/cannot be altered or amended to disadvantage or exclude anyone....moreover that it cannot legislate on faith or religious beliefs, or the practice and/or non practice thereof. I say this because Australians need to do the same as we are confronted with the very same issues and are being decimated by the 'so-called' political correctness that creates division rather than social unity. That's why politics and religion should never be uttered in the same breath, and particularly not in the same room as a bunch of miscreant politicians who'd swear support and allegiance to any minority group purely to collect a few extra votes on polling day. In doing so, they create and incite racial and religious intolerance in communities that otherwise would just go about their normal business. The recent riots in Sydney's Bondi beach are testament to that fact. Given recent events in Britain, I'm sure Fuzzy Logic would agree that Tony Blair and his cronies have equally ballsed up there as well. It has become, sadly, a worldwide problem.

There is nothing wrong with patriotism, believing in and fighting to preserve one's Constitution, for that is what helps to give us an identity, a sense of belonging, a belief in a oneness that unites those of a common land, nationality, if you like. It's our heritage for Christ's sake, something to be proud of, and without it, do we have a future...or just an end? Irrespective of country/nationality, we all have a right to be proud of our heritage.

Having said that, I cannot and do not believe, subscribe or contribute to the concept /theory or idea of different races. Scientific evidence proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we all belong to the same species of homo sapiens,man/human. Regardless of skin pigmentation, eye colour, hair colour and height, etc, we are all of the same origins....brothers and sisters, if you like (and I'll have no incest coimments here, thank you), and that makes us all racially the same. Our differences historically arise due to atmospheric/weather conditions, environmental and cultural variations, yet underneath we are identical....human beings, and therefore we should respectfully treat eachother as such. I'd just like to have a word with the self proclaimed god who said it was otherwise...cos he/she clearly got it wrong.

As for God, by the way, being the creator of all things, is the same God that all Christians; Jews, Buddists; Muslims and Hindus worship (another can of worms opened).
The principles are generally the same, but some cultures and religions have slightly different perceptions of Him, using different language and descriptions to express their faith, etc....and there's nothing wrong with that when we are accepting, tolerant and understanding of one another.

Of course this is not a perfect world, and there will always be exceptions due to mankind being given a free will, but essentially there's more good than evil.
Reply #133 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Yeah. I'm not sure about all those religions worshipping that one God, especially since Buddhists don't worship any god, and Hindus have a bunch of gods.

I think we established that religion and government should always be seperated. And yet, why can't the rest of this country, and other countries see this?

I should be President. Do I have your votes?
Reply #134 from WinCustomize Forums Top
You've got mine!!
Reply #135 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Yeah. I'm not sure about all those religions worshipping that one God, especially since Buddhists don't worship any god, and Hindus have a bunch of gods.


Adamness, I think maybe you missed my actual meaning, as I was referring more to the ideals/principles, rather than an entity or deity/deities.

I think we established that religion and government should always be seperated.


Yes we did, but there are other areas government should be separated from, and I was just expressing my personal view....in essence, that politicians purely exploit religion and minority groups to further their ambitions/careers, just as those they exploit, in turn, seek to manipulate and exploit them/the system. There is one solution, however, separate government from all public affairs, economic and fiscal matters, financial, religious and military matters, also.

Sorry, can't vote for ya tho, not a u.s. citizen for one.....for two, I just don't like, believe, trust or respect politicians full stop, so we're better off the way we are.

Come across a few good pollies once....mate took me to a cemetery where several reside
Reply #136 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So you don't think there should be government?

Maybe that discussion should be saved for another thread...
Reply #137 from WinCustomize Forums Top
So you don't think there should be government


Yes, another thread for that one!

Auf Wiedersehen, alle!

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central
Reply #138 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Alright, I think this thread died. I'll start that one about government though, and we'll continue. Yar har har.
Reply #139 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thank God, this thread died, it got so lost from it's humble beginnings!


"The New School Prayer" bye all!
Reply #140 from WinCustomize Forums Top

As I had some free time I went back and took a look at some of the Threads I wrote and looked at this one and felt the need to bring it back up.  A lot of the people that posted on this thread have left/don't post much any more/don't post at all.  As there is more and more discord going on in our schools/country, I wanted to see what some of the newer people thought.  And as I've seen more and more of these older threads being brought back, I figured, why not.  And if one takes the time to read the whole thread, you will see a lot of great posts.

Reply #141 from WinCustomize Forums Top

WOM, I respect your desire for equal expression with those whose agendas differ.

I think school should be about school. Period. Public school should teach the curriculum. Period.

 

Leave religion to religious schools. As for the curriculum only....we have enough trouble getting them to

learn that. Why add superfluous stuff to it.

 

School cannot (and should not) do the parent's job. School is public. Religion is private.

As for the rest of the hair/iercings/pagan stuff....in my day we had an unwritten dress/conduct code that everyone knew.

Let the kids be taught at home and those that aren't? Well, they're going to run into problems.

 

Parenthood/reproduction need to be licensed activities. If the future is the children, then shouldn't their progenitors be demanded to show the same proficiency needed for parenthood that is demanded of driving a vehicle before that is licensed?

Reply #142 from WinCustomize Forums Top

WOM, this is why I go around checking some of the older threads and bringing them "back from the dead".  Some of them have relevant topics that might get some new light shed on them.  For instance, this thread, which deals with a very sensitive issue for folks on both sides of the fence.  And it is just as relevant today as the day you wrote it.  My town is in the midst of a lawsuit brought by someone who doesn't think it's right to have a trailer on school grounds that kids can go to and be taught about god.

I'm ok with the trailer on school property.  I'm ok with them teaching those kids that want to go there and learn.  As long as it isn't forced on the children.  That's when I have a problem with it.  I don't believe in religion.  But I don't shelter my children from it.  If they want to go to church, they can go.  If they want to go to youth group, they can go.  I believe they should learn as much as they can about everything they can.  How else are they going to be able to make sound, well educated decisions?  I was brought up in a household that force fed religion.  I'm very versed in the bible as it was a punishable offense not to be able to recite the required scriptures.  Later on in life, I read as much as I could about as many religions as I could.  I wanted to be educated.  And in the end, that's all I want for my children, to be well educated, responsible good adults.

Reply #143 from WinCustomize Forums Top

A lot of the people that posted on this thread have left/don't post much any more/don't post at all.
End of quote

So the questions should be, why have they left, or, why don't they post anymore?

Reply #144 from WinCustomize Forums Top

WOM, I respect your desire for equal expression with those whose agendas differ.

I think school should be about school. Period. Public school should teach the curriculum. Period.



Leave religion to religious schools. As for the curriculum only....we have enough trouble getting them to

learn that. Why add superfluous stuff to it.



School cannot (and should not) do the parent's job. School is public. Religion is private.
End of quote

 

Spot on!

Reply #145 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Jafo, reply 20
I have NEVER equated morality with religion.

Were they akin there would be less 'religious' wars.

There weren't

So there isn't.
End of Jafo's quote

Agreed. I once met one worker at place I used to work at... His first words were "I'm very good christian." Well I thought that it was a funny intro... and it was.

He missed 3 work days in a first week, and then recovered for a bit. Then he kept missing in least once a week for few weeks before being fired. Before that he become rude and took it out on clients of assisted house for deaf and blind. That's a good christian? Sure. : P

During that time, I, the atheist, missed only a total of 7 days in almost 2 years I worked there.

Don't get me wrong, I have met many good christians and atheists, but I also met some bad christians and atheists. My point is that religion got nothing related to moral, like Jafo said.

 

 

Reply #146 from WinCustomize Forums Top

reply 11

There has never been a war fought because of something non-religious

Of course there have been wars over religion, but the majority are about money, power, greed and the control of land and people. Your statement is more than slightly inaccurate.
End of quote

Not quite. For a drop of blood lost due to goverment, money or etc wars, there is more than a gallon of blood lost due to religious wars.

*edit*

Oops didn't notice that it was from 2006. :P

Reply #147 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I was brought up in a household that force fed religion. I'm very versed in the bible as it was a punishable offense not to be able to recite the required scriptures.
End of quote

Sorry that happened to you, munkeh. Really. 

"Let the little chidren come unto me and suffer." Was definitely not the reputed speaker's intent.

 

Reply #148 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Sorry that happened to you, munkeh. Really.

"Let the little chidren come unto me and suffer." Was definitely not the reputed speaker's intent.
End of quote

The point of that was if you force something on someone, they are apt to rebell.  It was in the end a good thing that they did it because I learned a lot more than 1 organized religion would want you to.  And with that knowledge, I learned that I really had no use for religion. 

"atheism is a non-prophet organization" :grin:

Reply #149 from WinCustomize Forums Top

:rofl:

 I agree...and understood the point in the first reply.

As for religion...especially the organized variety...don't favor it, but don't deny G-d's existence....after all, how can one be sure one way or another?

It isn't a matter of "fact" as some would have it...it's faith. Some need/enjoy it, some don't.

Nice to live in a place where that (supposedly) doesn't matter. :grin:

Reply #150 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I'am a christian but wouldn't go so far as to say Good.  Hehe, nope as I know I'am not.  If ya believe ya believe, if ya don't ya don't.  If ya believe ya came from apes or whatever, then thats what ya believe.  The dollar has in God we trust, the pledge of allegance used to have God in it(when I was a kid).  You used to have to swear on the bible in court.  There has been many changes since I was a kid.  What screws things up is church doctrine, doesn't matter what church ya belong to.