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Your small biz doesn't accomodate my handicap, shut-u-down!

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Your small biz doesn't accomodate my handicap, shut-u-down!

from JoeUser Forums
With a nod to another blogger, as I found the original link to this one while doing a bit of blog-clicking...

The news in the last few days is just oh, so inspiring....

Small business owners in an area of San Diego known as Julian have been receiving letters from a handicapped (wheelchair bound) attorney from the San Diego area by the name of Theodore Pinnock. In all, 67 shop owners have received letters threatening a lawsuit if those shop owners don't make their businesses handicap accessible, most likely with an unspoken requirement that such access be to the liking of Mr. Pinnock.

This is yet more of the result of the flawed Americans with Disability Act that was passed back during the elder George H.W. Bush's term as President of the United States. It was a well meaning law, but it has come to be abused in many unforseen ways as scum like Mr. Pinnock have waged personal wars against the rest of the world, or at least another small part of it in their immediate area of the United States.

I would say I feel for people like Mr. Pinnock, but Mr. Pinnock's actions make it awfully difficult to be compassionate, and typically lead to a feeling that is much closer to a deep seated loathing.

There has to be a balance between providing access for all and driving small businesses out of business. What people like Mr. Pinnock fail to realize is that many shops that exist today were built long ago. Back in a time when we didn't have so many shapes and sizes to accomodate. Am I entitled to sue because I can't control my weight, and I need a larger personal space than others might? If I have bladder control issues, am I entitled to sue because there's not a bathroom every 10 feet along my path waiting for me to use it? Where does the line get drawn, and who gets to decide when someone like Pinnock is being a nuisance and abusing a well-intentioned law instead of simply trying to help make life better for all?


Original news article snippet follows. Please see original for complete story.





Julian Businesses In Turmoil

Shopowners In Julian Worried About Lawsuits

SAN DIEGO -- It's a battle that's pitted a lawyer against a town's merchants. The dispute is over disability access in Julian.
At the Bell, Book and Candle Shop in Julian, business is brisk and owner Debbie Hickey couldn't be sadder.
"It's a bittersweet end," said Hickey.
The shop will close its doors next week. Ever since the October wildfires decimated local tourism, the shop's sales have been cut in half -- then the letters came.
She isn't alone. In all, 67 businesses got a letter from San Diego attorney Theodore Pinnock.
Pinnock, who uses a wheelchair, is threatening lawsuits over disability access -- a legal battle Hickey said she just couldn't afford.
"I don't have any fight in me. I've fought to stay in business for the last two years," said Hickey.
Her shop is the first casualty in a brewing war that's consumed a tranquil town full of historic buildings.
In the past months, some shop owners have started getting things up to code.
Throughout Julian, disabled access signs are now the most popular in town. They are displayed prominently in storefronts. Most of the businesses named in the letters have banned together for a fight, 10News reported.
They must make the case they're compliant, versus a lawyer known for lawsuits against individual businesses.
Now, he's taking on an entire town, and shop owners worry about where he's going next.


... more at linked article

Please see original for complete story.
4,325 views 54 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: Furry CanaryPosted: Wednesday, January 04, 2006
' Interesting that the people who shut down small businesses with litigation like this are also those who protest big box stores such as WalMart...'
Where is the evidence that this guy is targetting big stores?

You mis read.  He specifically meant and stated that this guy was not targetting big stores, and yet, those who cheer him on, are decrying them.

Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
'He specifically meant and stated that this guy was not targetting big stores ...'
Excuse me, but no he didn't!
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top

Small business owners in an area of San Diego known as Julian have been receiving letters from a handicapped (wheelchair bound) attorney from the San Diego area by the name of Theodore Pinnock

Excuse me, but no he didn't!

Better re-read the article.

Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
' Interesting that the people who shut down small businesses with litigation like this are also those who protest big box stores such as WalMart...'
Where is the evidence that this guy is targetting big stores?


Furry,

IN AMERICA, the majority of suits such as these are filed by people who define themselves as either Democrats or Socialist, or other similar affiliations. These are the VERY SAME individuals who are behind movements like the WalMart Watch movement. The SAME.

Now, I realize that wherever you live, that Socialists, Democrats, and such are perfect and noble entities who never express any contradiction in their ideologies. But it's not the case in America.

I explained all of this thoroughly when I explained why I was no longer affiliated with leftist movements despite over a decade and a half of activism as such. Dr. Guy has done the same. To the popular front, talk show host Michael Medved has made similar statements. Even a look at the writings of Dick Morris, once one of the closest insiders to Bill Clinton, suggests he is doing the same. Could it be that we all ironically experienced the same extremely rare contingent of individuals among the left and that most aren't as we see them? It's possible, but as anecdotal evidence from others suggests I'm far from alone in this, it seems increasingly unlikely.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
ou can't extrapolate from one individual to the world in general, Dr. Guy. I know many people with disabilities who object to being labelled handicapped


Last I noticed, their parking spots are labeled "Handicapped" not "Disabled". I think anyone who has such a hang up with the difference between the two terms has more problems than just their physicality. Americans have to quit babying themselves! People have different problems from mental handicaps to physical and emotional ones. Someone who has a crippling fear of heights can't eat at a restaurant on top of a skyscraper. A blind person with a leader dog can't go into a crystalware shop. Equality for all is impossible.

I think a lot of the laws have gotten ridiculous. How many handicap spaces do you really need at the gym? To an outsider it might seem like nothing to make a place handicap accessible but to a small business owner, it might be the difference between staying in business or not. I might be cold hearted but I don't see the rights of the handicapped as more important than the rights of the small business owner.
Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
'Furry, IN AMERICA ...'
AH Captain Patronising is back, ranting on as usual, but avoiding the question. And Dr. Guy, for the last time, YOU re-read - my complaint was of Gideon, not terpfan.
Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top

And Dr. Guy, for the last time, YOU re-read - my complaint was of Gideon, not terpfan.

Interesting that the people who shut down small businesses with litigation like this are also those who protest big box stores such as WalMart...yet actions such as these have shut more doors thaan Wally World could in 100 years.

Notice the conjunction.  He did not say shut down Walmart with litigation.  He said Protest Walmart.  No where does he say they are targeting big stores.  And the last clause was a statement again against small stores.  Since one of the biggest slams against Wal Mart is that they put small stores out of business, much like this clown is trying to do in his own little pond.

Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
Last I noticed, their parking spots are labeled "Handicapped" not "Disabled". I think anyone who has such a hang up with the difference between the two terms has more problems than just their physicality.


Exactly! The ONLY difference between the words "Handicapped" and "Disabled" is spelling... unless we're talking about Golf. ;~D
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top

*YAWN* I repeat: Where is the evidence that THIS GUY is targetting big stores?

Since no one accused Him of doing that, why should aneyone prove something that was not stated? Notice the generic "people who.....".  No where did he say that Pinnock was doing it. 

Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
AH Captain Patronising is back, ranting on as usual, but avoiding the question. And Dr. Guy, for the last time, YOU re-read - my complaint was of Gideon, not terpfan.


I wasn't being patronising, I was explaining that perhaps our perceptions differ because you aren't aware of the differences between America and your own country. And I DID answer your questions...you just have a problem because my "answer" wasn't a cowtow to your point of view.
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
OK, the original quote, as it was written:

Interesting that the people who shut down small businesses with litigation like this are also those who protest big box stores such as WalMart...yet actions such as these have shut more doors thaan Wally World could in 100 years.


Now, let me explain. I'll try to keep the words small so that you can understand (now I AM being patronizing, furry...but you've proved yourself worthy):

Pinnock is not the only individual filing lawsuits such as these. There are many more lawsuits on the books. Most small businesses cannot afford to renovate their retail space, as they are leasing the most affordable retail space they can find. These lawsuits make it too costly for small businesses to do business (with me so far? OK, here's where it gets complex. Stay with me). Because it is too costly for these businesses to stay in business, and because the government cannot REQUIRE that these companies stay in business, they shut their doors because they cannot afford the renovations.

Now, "big box" stores like WalMart do not have this problem. They have endless streams of capital (oops..."money") to make all manner of changes that idiots like Pinnock demand. They can, then, stay in business.

The net effect is that these lawsuits shut the doors of small business.

Now (stay with me here) a close look at the organizations that fund WalMart Watch and the infamous anti-WalMart movie are organizations who are affiliated with the same organizations who file these suits. This is why I used the generic term "people who..." I did not imply that Pinnock specifically targetted WalMart, although I would be willing to wager (umm..."bet") a fair sum of money that Pinnock personally has supported WalMart boycotts.

Back to topic:

The ADA law specifically requires "REASONABLE" accomodation. Putting an elevator in to access a second story bookstore is cost prohibitive, and therefore, not reasonable. I don't know the specifics of this suit, but if the accomodations are cost prohibitive, they are not reasonable. Pinnock's suit is a shameful, frivolous lawsuit and he shoudl be ashamed.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am looking for a lawyer to sue the state of California, due to disease and old age I have lost the ability to drive at night! {nightblindness} Noit only sue california but the makers of those awful blinding bright blue headlights on cars. All country roads should have lighting so I can drive at night.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
'now I AM being patronizing, furry'
I rest my case on you, Gideon.

'I don't know the specifics of this suit, but if the accomodations are cost prohibitive, they are not reasonable. Pinnock's suit is a shameful, frivolous lawsuit and he shoudl be ashamed.'
And I rest my case on your argument. You admit you know nothing about the specifics of Pinnock's suit, yet you condemn him outright. Isn't this just the sort of prejudice you've been complaining about in your recent conflict with the authorities? You're the one who should be ashamed.
Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
And I rest my case on your argument. You admit you know nothing about the specifics of Pinnock's suit, yet you condemn him outright.


You didn't even read 90% of my response, even though I attempted to use small words for you. Since you can't even give me the courtesy of responding to the MEAT of my response (but rather to the introductory remarks), there's little basis for continuing this discussion. I find it sad that someone as intelligent as you, furry (despite the sarcasm, I do actually find you to be an intelligent opponent...MOST of the time) would resort to trolling and sniping instead of a categorical response. I know you can do better than that.
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
'Since you can't even give me the courtesy of responding to the MEAT of my response (but rather to the introductory remarks)'
And you do / did? Take the plank out of your eye, Gideon.
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top

And you do / did? Take the plank out of your eye, Gideon.

I think he did with the last one.  best read all the responses. and Get some contacts.

Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
'I think he did with the last one. best read all the responses. and Get some contacts.'
Obviously, Dr. Guy, you think Gideon incapable of fighting his own battles. Don't you EVER let him respond for himself? More seriously, your incessant orders to 're-read' are becoming tedious. No matter how many times one reads a passage - and I try to read thoroughly the first time through - one can't read what isn't there.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top

Obviously, Dr. Guy, you think Gideon incapable of fighting his own battles. Don't you EVER let him respond for himself? More seriously, your incessant orders to 're-read' are becoming tedious. No matter how many times one reads a passage - and I try to read thoroughly the first time through - one can't read what isn't there.

He can fight his own battles, but jerking your chain is more fun!  And as far as re-reading, I guess it is just a comprehension issue as what is clear to me, a user of American English, is not to you, one proficient in Aussie English.  SO I just have to chalk that one up to a cultural difference, as your grammar has always been exemplarary.

Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
Obviously, Dr. Guy, you think Gideon incapable of fighting his own battles. Don't you EVER let him respond for himself? More seriously, your incessant orders to 're-read' are becoming tedious. No matter how many times one reads a passage - and I try to read thoroughly the first time through - one can't read what isn't there.


Furry, I am on part time. Depending on when your reply is posted, it can take up to two days for me to respond. I don't need anyone to speak for me, but if you have a comment which you want me to address directly it's probably not best posted on an open thread.
Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top
No doubt there are countless other businesses in the area that managed to comply with the legislative change years ago. I would venture that they are the ones who deserve our support, not those who have ignored the legal rights of people with disabilities for over a decade.


Yup...WalMart's been in compliance for years. I rest my case.
Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top
'I don't need anyone to speak for me, but if you have a comment which you want me to address directly it's probably not best posted on an open thread.'
As I'm quite sure you fully realise Gideon, the response was aimed not at you, but at Dr. Guy. If / when you respond to my comments, I couldn't care less. Now that you and I have both 'rested' our particular 'cases', I am inclined to leave things there.

As for your retort that 'He can fight his own battles, but jerking your chain is more fun!', that tells me more than I could have wished to know about the meaning or otherwise of your life, Dr. Guy. This is clear proof to me that the this action requires a jerk at one end.
Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top

As for your retort that 'He can fight his own battles, but jerking your chain is more fun!', that tells me more than I could have wished to know about the meaning or otherwise of your life, Dr. Guy. This is clear proof to me that the this action requires a jerk at one end.

No, but getting your goat is fun.  You can take it any way you want. But I would advise to take it as it is.  A blog with opinions.  If that is too strenous for you, fine!  Ignore me!

That is YOUR option after all.

Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top
'No, but getting your goat is fun. You can take it any way you want.'
I do and I will - that is my prerogative, with or without your permission. I sincerely hope you find meaning in your life.
Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top

I do and I will - that is my prerogative, with or without your permission. I sincerely hope you find meaning in your life.

You missed the point again.  But that is ok.  I hope your BP is ok.